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Posted: 3/25/2011 6:38:20 PM EDT
Hey all,

A topic of a different flavor again this month.......

I have had this idea for a while now and it is starting to eat at me that the time may be right with CCW shall issue and such a great bunch that we have here on the Iowa Home Town Forum.
Anyway, I have never really gotten into 3 gun matches....shot a few but just not really me, and the IPSC style of competition started out great but sometimes (at least in my opinion) has gotten a little too "gameish".
I would like some feedback about putting together regular matches for AR/AK/Sig/ whatever style of rifle shooters who are looking to push themselves and practice realistic tactics while utilizing cover, good tactics, and the same type of equipment that they have on their weapons....basically no race guns, no lasers, only tacticool practical weapons and gear.
Rick and I were talking about this the other day, and I guess the way I look at this type of thing is that you can get so far by pushing yourself, but when you push each other as well as getting a large group of rifle type shooters together it gives everyone a chance to exchange ideas, test gear, and really see what is out there and what really works and what doesn't.
My thoughts are kind of going along the lines of this, mixing CQB and some distance into each course, and having folks run it in all that cool gear that most of us have , or really want a reason to buy more of(LBV, Plate carriers, chest pouches, ect.) or for the LEO types running it in their duty set up.
As far as the matches themselves, sort of along the lines of movement from stage to stage.  Mixing CQB "go fast drills" with some distance and marksmanship shot in the same match.
Awarding folks for good use of cover, shot placement, weapon handling, and safety.  And deducting points for poor use of cover, poor tactics (things that could get you hurt in a real fight), bad weapon manipulation, ect..
Now I am not really looking for best of the best of the best kind of shit, but a place to actually push all these fancy mil style rifles we all love so much as well as testing tactics.
I think eventually we could get some sponsors to help with prizes, but making ourselves better, more competent with or weapons is a pretty dam
good reward in and of its self.

What do you guys think?  Should this be something that I start working up?  Enough interest?

R

Why?  Because well trained, armed people just don't make good victims.......
Link Posted: 3/25/2011 6:50:24 PM EDT
[#1]
Sounds like a blast to me...At this point, i wouldnt want to go do too much running around with my gun (not enough training, worried of making a mistake and possibly hurting someone), but I would like to participate.

Link Posted: 3/25/2011 6:57:56 PM EDT
[#2]
I think it would be fun so count me in.    
Link Posted: 3/25/2011 6:59:31 PM EDT
[#3]
I'm interested.
Link Posted: 3/25/2011 7:00:24 PM EDT
[#4]
Sounds awesome to me. I always like non static range play. Just never knew where to get into it without spending a bazillion dollars.
Link Posted: 3/25/2011 7:14:16 PM EDT
[#5]
Sounds like it would be a blast!
Link Posted: 3/25/2011 7:40:33 PM EDT
[#6]
Sounds like a great idea
Link Posted: 3/25/2011 7:44:49 PM EDT
[#7]
use of cover would fall closer to idpa
Link Posted: 3/25/2011 7:46:48 PM EDT
[#8]
Quoted:
use of cover would fall closer to idpa


Speaking of, are we talking actual cover ? Or concealment ?
Link Posted: 3/25/2011 8:01:31 PM EDT
[#9]
I'm interested, Ive trained with dummy m16's and blank fire adapters would like try some live.
Link Posted: 3/25/2011 8:17:56 PM EDT
[#10]
Romper,



Count me in and I am more then happy to help facilitate and help where you need it. I suck at shooting, but want to get better, unless Micheal has a M240, then I'll kick everyone's ass. I would say that movement is a must to really show weakness and improve real world skills. Though it would definetely be something that you could work up to.



Thomas
Link Posted: 3/25/2011 8:33:25 PM EDT
[#11]
let me see how can I put this:



YES

Link Posted: 3/25/2011 10:00:48 PM EDT
[#12]
Outstanding!!!!  I am looking forward to more input from the members of IHTF, but as mentioned I think starting out small, and fairly basic would be best for everyone.
I have already spoken with some folks and am planning on starting this out this summer.

My eventual goal is to make different divisions, or at least different categories, LEO, Mil, and prepared armed citizen.

Obviously my goal is training, but this way the masses are turned on to something, and hopefully this will spark more folks to better their skills, bring friends, and have something to pass from father to son/mother to daughter, father to daughter, ect.......like things used to be.

After all, we all love the evil black rifles, we each have a few......just like a muscle car, what fun is it to own one and not be able to see what they will do, or what WE can do with them.
As far as gear.....starting out fairly small, just what you have......and see what works and what doesn't.
I would like to have this up and running sometime in June, and maybe do one match a month....with a few of the nasty months off in the winter to re-equip and then back in the spring.
As far as logistics, I think I have a place all picked out....and within a few meetings and some other stuff I think this could be very good for all of us, at the very least it is a start to something.....and with laws changing and things becoming more and more positive for gun owners in Iowa the eyes of the country are kind of on us to see what WE are doing and how things are going.
Being a Life NRA member, and LEO/Public trainer, I would really love to see this up and running because the benefits to the gun owning community, let alone the LEO community (where we are on track to set a new record for LEO line of duty deaths this year) and the Military folks who are out there fighting for our freedom all getting together and teaching each other/working together so we do not have all the bullshit anti LEO/Mil sentiment that I have read in other places on this forum.
And if the powers that be see how things are working in OUR COMMUNITY then maybe we can eventually get more legislation passed so we can all own SBRs and SBSs.

Please keep this rolling folks.

Thanks,
R
Link Posted: 3/25/2011 10:05:36 PM EDT
[#13]
Quoted:
Romper,

Count me in and I am more then happy to help facilitate and help where you need it. I suck at shooting, but want to get better, unless Micheal has a M240, then I'll kick everyone's ass. I would say that movement is a must to really show weakness and improve real world skills. Though it would definetely be something that you could work up to.

Thomas


Brother, we all gotta start someplace......you say suck, I say willing to learn.......and shear pluckiness counts for quite a bit where I come from.

R

Link Posted: 3/25/2011 10:16:37 PM EDT
[#14]





Quoted:





Quoted:


Romper,





Count me in and I am more then happy to help facilitate and help where you need it. I suck at shooting, but want to get better, unless Micheal has a M240, then I'll kick everyone's ass. I would say that movement is a must to really show weakness and improve real world skills. Though it would definetely be something that you could work up to.





Thomas






Brother, we all gotta start someplace......you say suck, I say willing to learn.......and shear pluckiness counts for quite a bit where I come from.





R





Yeah, I am always down to get out and play with guns. The best training I received in the Army was a stress fire range, its amazing how 25 yard shots I would make all day long from sandbags, go to hell after you just carried your buddy 50 meters in full battle rattle. Sadly, there was not a ton of that and no pistol training, but I am learning and trying to do it a manner that is fun. Can't wait to run a course of fire with and AR, a winchester '97 and revolver with speed loaders
 
Link Posted: 3/26/2011 3:54:25 AM EDT
[#15]
Count me in. A definite YES!
Link Posted: 3/26/2011 4:49:09 AM EDT
[#16]
Romper, you can count me in.
Link Posted: 3/26/2011 5:23:41 AM EDT
[#17]
We already do some side matches in IDPA. You can see our loose match schedule here.
But I'm down for a more Rifle oriented match. Would this be done on Sundays? or Saturdays? Where?
Link Posted: 3/26/2011 6:04:25 AM EDT
[#18]
I would be all over this like white on rice!

I have been thinking about this all winter for improved training. I have to say the NutnFancy project has lit my fire in that aspect. I don't have acess to areas for CQB scenarios but have thought about a piece of land that I have access to that would simulate wooded terrain scanarios. Granted in real life the odds of this happening are slim but the physical impact of running up and down revines and making a well places shots would be fun as a different type of training and comradery. My ground is all heavly wooded with deep revines where all shots would be placed safely in the earth, That is my local goal after turkey season is over.
Link Posted: 3/26/2011 12:22:14 PM EDT
[#19]
This would be awesome.   As a primer, I think that I've seen that a few places, like MO and Fl, have defensive carbine legues, so they might have an ideas for a course of fire or scoring or whatever if you need it.   And yes, lord I need an excuse to get out and shoot.
Link Posted: 3/26/2011 3:04:12 PM EDT
[#20]
Sounds like an excellent idea, count me in
Link Posted: 3/26/2011 5:03:10 PM EDT
[#21]
I would be there if at all possible.
Link Posted: 3/26/2011 5:14:36 PM EDT
[#22]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Romper,

 /snip/ I suck at shooting,  /snip/
Thomas


Brother, we all gotta start someplace......you say suck, I say willing to learn.......and shear pluckiness counts for quite a bit where I come from.

R



No, he really sucks at shooting.   Take his word for it Romp.  Just terrible.
Link Posted: 3/26/2011 5:59:52 PM EDT
[#23]





Quoted:





Quoted:




Quoted:


Romper,





 /snip/ I suck at shooting,  /snip/


Thomas






Brother, we all gotta start someplace......you say suck, I say willing to learn.......and shear pluckiness counts for quite a bit where I come from.





R











No, he really sucks at shooting.   Take his word for it Romp.  Just terrible.



Damn, right Jack, I left my high speed low drag walking death machine days behind me. I did get down to high 7 seconds on the poppers at the ames shoot. Which is good considering I only have 6 shots.



My stetson is way cooler then yours though





 
Link Posted: 3/26/2011 7:00:41 PM EDT
[#24]
I am very interested.  Logistics, ie., location and cost will determine it for me...

But, I am very interested..
Link Posted: 3/26/2011 7:02:25 PM EDT
[#25]
Outstanding guys, I am still working out some logistics and planning but this is the route I am thinking of.......Either Saturday or Sunday, depends on what everyone wants to do.
I have a range I am working with, and need a few meetings to get things going but I really don't see a problem.
As for the matches;
As mentioned, battle rifle oriented, with use of proper gear and sidearm, some stations may involve transitions from rifle to handgun, others multiple targets and different ranges in the same station.
Starting out simple and working to complex problems as folks get more comfortable with what they are doing and how their gear is set up.
I like reality and have many, many officer involved shooting incident details to use for scenarios, and some interesting armed citizen scenarios as well.
One thing that I really enjoy about matches is good set up and organization....nothing beats a match run where there isn't much sitting on the sidelines....so I will need some help with range officers.
Rules, regs ect.  Cost?

Thoughts?????

R
Link Posted: 3/26/2011 7:34:25 PM EDT
[#26]
What kind of gear would you recommend?
Link Posted: 3/27/2011 5:42:15 AM EDT
[#27]
Sounds like fun, I'll try to make at least a few, depends how it mixes with my Cowboy shooting schedule, and what I can get for time-off at work.
ML
Link Posted: 3/27/2011 6:28:00 AM EDT
[#28]
Quoted:
What kind of gear would you recommend?

,
If you are just starting out with gear selection, I would recommend a chest rig, SKD has good ones at decent prices, ATS as well, Mayflower, Tactical Tailer.
All you really need on it is 3-4 rifle mag pouches, maybe a place to store a small flashlight.

Most can be had for under $100.

R
Link Posted: 3/27/2011 7:52:10 AM EDT
[#29]
That could be done on a war belt as well

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 3/27/2011 8:51:28 AM EDT
[#30]
If you do it on a Saturday afternoon or anytime on Sunday I would be interested in assisting you.  I can help you guys out with range safety and running people through the course if you need it.  You have my number.
Link Posted: 3/27/2011 9:34:54 AM EDT
[#31]



Quoted:



Quoted:

What kind of gear would you recommend?


,

If you are just starting out with gear selection, I would recommend a chest rig, SKD has good ones at decent prices, ATS as well, Mayflower, Tactical Tailer.

All you really need on it is 3-4 rifle mag pouches, maybe a place to store a small flashlight.



Most can be had for under $100.



R


I def. recommend grabbing what you need from these guys, its all tactical tailor at very reduced costs. I've used them a time or two already have been impressed with their service.



Grab a TT MAV for $22

http://www.greyghostoutlet.com/rigs/mav-1pc-body



Grab some mag pouches $16 ( two should do):

http://www.greyghostoutlet.com/pouches/triple-mag-panel-5-56-acu



Grab a pistol mag pouch $13:

http://www.greyghostoutlet.com/pouches/2-pistol-mag-pouch



After that just have a good holster, sling (I like the Urban ERT or Troy myself), a first aid kit (check ebay for used IFAK) and maybe a dump pouch.



 
Link Posted: 3/27/2011 12:04:39 PM EDT
[#32]
This would be great, especially if it is centrally located so everyone can make it!
Link Posted: 3/27/2011 12:46:17 PM EDT
[#33]
Quoted:

Quoted:
Quoted:
What kind of gear would you recommend?

,
If you are just starting out with gear selection, I would recommend a chest rig, SKD has good ones at decent prices, ATS as well, Mayflower, Tactical Tailer.
All you really need on it is 3-4 rifle mag pouches, maybe a place to store a small flashlight.

Most can be had for under $100.

R

I def. recommend grabbing what you need from these guys, its all tactical tailor at very reduced costs. I've used them a time or two already have been impressed with their service.
.

Grab a TT MAV for $22
http://www.greyghostoutlet.com/rigs/mav-1pc-body

Grab some mag pouches $16 ( two should do):
http://www.greyghostoutlet.com/pouches/triple-mag-panel-5-56-acu

Grab a pistol mag pouch $13:
http://www.greyghostoutlet.com/pouches/2-pistol-mag-pouch

After that just have a good holster, sling (I like the Urban ERT or Troy myself), a first aid kit (check ebay for used IFAK) and maybe a dump pouch.
 


Thanks-  I use my tactical tailor stuff-   They make great stuff.   I have many options and I'll bring them all. I want to see what others are using and works the best.
Link Posted: 3/27/2011 6:22:19 PM EDT
[#34]
Agreed, if you look around there are some really good deals on great equipment and it will not break the bank.  If anyone has any questions please yell at someone, or anyone for that matter who knows gear.
I have always been of the opinion that just owning a "tacticool gun" without good mags, and a way to carry them on your person is like owning a muscle car and keeping that bad boy up on blocks in the garage.....without and oil or gas (because them make your toy dirty).

Good stuff so far guys....

R
Link Posted: 3/27/2011 6:45:07 PM EDT
[#35]
I am in and have probably 15 other guys minimum in the cedar rapids area who would love to be part of it and help out.  Let me know what you need for help.
Link Posted: 3/28/2011 4:04:08 AM EDT
[#36]
You're either a genius or a moron, romp.

Either this helps by people saying ' I want to get better, sign me up for training' or you're just giving away free training.

No worries for me, as I'm untrainable Still sounds like an absolute blast.
Link Posted: 3/28/2011 4:11:02 AM EDT
[#37]
I bet you would get 4-5 from the Cedar Falls/Waterloo shooting public. Depending on dates.

You should check the Illowa Practical Shooters Calendar and maybe get it posted there as a 'trooper shoot' or something like that.

My vote would be to use Vickers scoring from IDPA but mandate at least 3 rifle mags carried on person in some kind of rig (chest/thigh/war belt)
Link Posted: 3/28/2011 6:10:46 AM EDT
[#38]
Quoted:
I bet you would get 4-5 from the Cedar Falls/Waterloo shooting public. Depending on dates.

You should check the Illowa Practical Shooters Calendar and maybe get it posted there as a 'trooper shoot' or something like that.

My vote would be to use Vickers scoring from IDPA but mandate at least 3 rifle mags carried on person in some kind of rig (chest/thigh/war belt)


I don't think you would need to mandate a "rig" as such.  I can carry two mags on the belt, one in the left cargo pocket, and one in the gun.  

Can we start throwing around some dates?
Link Posted: 3/28/2011 6:28:45 AM EDT
[#39]
The NRA is experimenting with a Tactical Rifle Match.  There's a thread in the IDPA/IPSC forum of the board (Training section).  Two day match, nine stages, 5 to 500 yards, 162 rounds.  As presently concieved I don't see it working, but it may give you some ideas.  

You need to think out the logistics carefully.  Based on our occasional three gun matches, the rifle stage runs pretty slow.  Scoring targets from 10 to 100 yards takes a lot of movement and time.  It ends up being a lot of time on the range for not a lot of shooting.   Worse than the typical IDPA match.  

It could be fun, and I encourage to look into it.  Just go into it with open eyes.
Link Posted: 3/28/2011 6:30:31 AM EDT
[#40]
Quoted:
What kind of gear would you recommend?


Stop by the shop Joe.  Check out the vests and carriers.  
Link Posted: 3/28/2011 8:01:20 AM EDT
[#41]
Quoted:
The NRA is experimenting with a Tactical Rifle Match.  There's a thread in the IDPA/IPSC forum of the board (Training section).  Two day match, nine stages, 5 to 500 yards, 162 rounds.  As presently concieved I don't see it working, but it may give you some ideas.  

You need to think out the logistics carefully.  Based on our occasional three gun matches, the rifle stage runs pretty slow.  Scoring targets from 10 to 100 yards takes a lot of movement and time.  It ends up being a lot of time on the range for not a lot of shooting.   Worse than the typical IDPA match.  

It could be fun, and I encourage to look into it.  Just go into it with open eyes.


Could you make it an all-steel match? It either pings/swings or it didn't. Would simplify scoring and place more emphasis on tactics and movement than accuracy.
Link Posted: 3/28/2011 8:27:27 AM EDT
[#42]
Quoted:
Quoted:
The NRA is experimenting with a Tactical Rifle Match.  There's a thread in the IDPA/IPSC forum of the board (Training section).  Two day match, nine stages, 5 to 500 yards, 162 rounds.  As presently concieved I don't see it working, but it may give you some ideas.  

You need to think out the logistics carefully.  Based on our occasional three gun matches, the rifle stage runs pretty slow.  Scoring targets from 10 to 100 yards takes a lot of movement and time.  It ends up being a lot of time on the range for not a lot of shooting.   Worse than the typical IDPA match.  

It could be fun, and I encourage to look into it.  Just go into it with open eyes.


Could you make it an all-steel match? It either pings/swings or it didn't. Would simplify scoring and place more emphasis on tactics and movement than accuracy.


It's a possiblity but it would take a lot of steel plus you have to reset the steel targets.  And the steel would have to be rifle proof, not all of it is.
Link Posted: 3/28/2011 8:41:40 AM EDT
[#43]
Quoted:
Quoted:
What kind of gear would you recommend?


Stop by the shop Joe.  Check out the vests and carriers.  


I have some of the gear these guys carry.  A nice selection and the prices are just as affordable as on the internet.  Buy local and save on shipping....plus instant gratification instead of waiting by the mailbox.
Link Posted: 3/28/2011 4:55:16 PM EDT
[#44]
As to targets/scoring Knob creek does a tactical rifle match where most all are steel, with a last target of x umber o target that's scored separately.
Link Posted: 3/28/2011 5:28:18 PM EDT
[#45]
At Wolf Creek IDPA we often have side matches and I have attended every one we've done with the rifles. IDPA rules for the most part are dropped unless a safety issues is seen. I love this kind of thing and often freak the hell out of folks when I practice this stuff with false barriers.

I also planned to offer some rifle courses like this when I get a couple more tactical rifle classes under my belt.

As for gear I'm very much good to go in that area. No physical plates yet, but everything else is in order. Keep me in the loop I'd gladly attend.
Link Posted: 3/31/2011 4:56:47 PM EDT
[#46]
BUMP.  Lets keep this going, if you need any help Romper let us know.
Link Posted: 4/2/2011 3:28:59 PM EDT
[#47]
there must have been some confusion here...  romper's suggestion to do this was a scenario where CCA was going to do this as a customer appreciation to those people who had taken the basic rifle program.  that way they'd get a taste of the tac I and tac II rifle courses.  this way you guys who had taken them and were taking them this summer could get together in the fall for a scheduled day of tutoring on us...

many of you have been through the course, so when many of the rest get through we can put a calendar date in....  hell, we can book the calendar date now for that matter as the rifle courses will be held throughout the spring and summer.
Link Posted: 4/2/2011 4:35:26 PM EDT
[#48]
Quoted:
there must have been some confusion here...  romper's suggestion to do this was a scenario where CCA was going to do this as a customer appreciation to those people who had taken the basic rifle program.  that way they'd get a taste of the tac I and tac II rifle courses.  this way you guys who had taken them and were taking them this summer could get together in the fall for a scheduled day of tutoring on us...

many of you have been through the course, so when many of the rest get through we can put a calendar date in....  hell, we can book the calendar date now for that matter as the rifle courses will be held throughout the spring and summer.


WOW- yeah, that's not how I read into the first post of this....

Sounds good- just changes the perspective....
Link Posted: 4/2/2011 4:38:39 PM EDT
[#49]







Quoted:




there must have been some confusion here...  romper's suggestion to do this was a scenario where CCA was going to do this as a customer appreciation to those people who had taken the basic rifle program.  that way they'd get a taste of the tac I and tac II rifle courses.  this way you guys who had taken them and were taking them this summer could get together in the fall for a scheduled day of tutoring on us...
many of you have been through the course, so when many of the rest get through we can put a calendar date in....  hell, we can book the calendar date now for that matter as the rifle courses will be held throughout the spring and summer.




That is not at all what this was described as having been...
This was described as a IPSC type event where people gather to further them selves and each other, while putting all of the gear that they have to use.





Then it was further described as having separate classes for Civ's and Mil/LEO
 
Link Posted: 4/2/2011 5:48:38 PM EDT
[#50]
And, what is the deal with the advertisement in the OP??  Is everyone seeing that?  I have never seen that before, nor do I see it in any other posts....

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