Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Site Notices
10/20/2017 1:01:18 AM
9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Arrow Left Previous Page
Page / 2
Posted: 8/11/2005 6:42:56 AM EDT
There seem to be a lot of anti dealer sentiment on AR15.com. I have noticed thread after thread or post after post bitching about how some dealer conducts his business. Some, very few, complaints seem to be legitiment. Most are petty complaints. Each Dealer sets his own business policy, he is aware of his situation and what he must do to make a living. He is entitled to do this. If you don't agree with how he conduct business go somewhere else. I don't understand the bitching. When I'm shopping for merchandise or services I get the facts up front and if I don't agree I find some one else. Here, people hide behind their keyboards and talk trash. In some cases I notice that the complainers don't have all the facts, yet they still want to report the Dealer to the ATF, Comptroller, Better Business Bureau, lynch him, stone him and run him out of business. Just because someone else has a better price doesn't mean the Dealer is out to screw you. He is trying to make a living. It seems strange because without the Dealer we would be able to purchase firearms. Once you run all the small guys out of business you will have to travel long distance, have fewer selection and higher prices because there are fewer and fewer Dealers willing to put up with your bitching and low balling. I see no reason to live on the edge of poverty because you think you are entitled to a better deal. Just wait until I come into you place of business want a better deal and trash you on the internet because your competition has it cheaper.
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 6:54:29 AM EDT
ooooooook
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 7:02:09 AM EDT

I have noticed thread after thread or post after post bitching about how some dealer conducts his business. Some, very few, complaints seem to be legitiment. Most are petty complaints.


You will find this in any industry/retail/contract type job. People complain about anything and everything. I will say in there defense there are some dealers out to screw people. Just look at the average gun show. An unknowing buyer can be taken by an unscrupulous dealer.

I'm not saying all dealers are bad, and all complaints are valid. It's just something that EVERYONE that works in ANY industry faces petty bitching.
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 7:10:22 AM EDT

Originally Posted By purplecheese:

I have noticed thread after thread or post after post bitching about how some dealer conducts his business. Some, very few, complaints seem to be legitiment. Most are petty complaints.


You will find this in any industry/retail/contract type job. People complain about anything and everything. I will say in there defense there are some dealers out to screw people. Just look at the average gun show. An unknowing buyer can be taken by an unscrupulous dealer.

I'm not saying all dealers are bad, and all complaints are valid. It's just something that EVERYONE that works in ANY industry faces petty bitching.



I susspect I have been to more gunshows than most people on this board, I just don't see these dealers. I see almost all dealers go out of there way to make things right. If I take a firearm in trade and sell it at the same show, obviously I haven't had time to test fire it, tear it apart or do anything but a basic function check. I sell it to you and later something goes wrong. Was I trying to screw you? I don't think so. I told you the situation before you bought it and made sure you have my contact information in case something went wrong.
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 7:15:52 AM EDT
Take for example to thread about the dealer collecting tax on a tranfer. Some were very hot about it and wanted to burn the dealer. After all the dust settled we find out that the individual asking for the transfer was breaking the law by not paying the use tax and that the dealer was completly above board in his conduct. Despite the facts that dealer will be loosing business because of trash talking.
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 7:25:23 AM EDT

Originally Posted By terrydavis:

I susspect I have been to more gunshows than most people on this board, I just don't see these dealers. I see almost all dealers go out of there way to make things right. If I take a firearm in trade and sell it at the same show, obviously I haven't had time to test fire it, tear it apart or do anything but a basic function check. I sell it to you and later something goes wrong. Was I trying to screw you? I don't think so. I told you the situation before you bought it and made sure you have my contact information in case something went wrong.



+1

Have been going to shows and dealers here for 15 years. Texas, and DFW is nirvana compared to some places I have lived. Just cause a dealer charges more or does not give me a price for a trade-in I want does not make him bad or a crook or whatever.

It is my experience many forum members are some of the cheapest tight-wads I have ever seen (I mean that in the nicest way). You can see this in action by all the folks trying to "build their own" despite having no experience. Instead of paying $100 more and getting a factory NIB gun with a warranty, they get a POS that does not run, and probably never will. Then since it is a bastard, they complain they cannot get a good trade-in value for it from a dealer.
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 7:33:34 AM EDT
all gun dealers are sorry no good bastard sonsofbitches

it's on the application, not checking the "yes" box is an automatic disqualification
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 7:35:06 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TexRdnec:
all gun dealers are sorry no good bastard sonsofbitches

it's on the application, not checking the "yes" box is an automatic disqualification



I checked the box, but they haven't issued the certificate yet.
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 7:36:53 AM EDT
since you brought it up...

how much would you expect to pay for an AR15 magazine?
15.00?
30.00?

how about 45.00?

there are just a couple places in Houston where you can walk into a store and buy and AR15 mag. even so almost $50.00 a mag is ridiculous. i don't mind telling people not to go in that store looking for that product.

the other side of the coin is if you want to sell a gun. say you have a brand new Browning BPS with a nicly figured high gloss stock. you walk into a gun store to sell it and are told to wait. you see they have BPS shotguns for 450.00 with the mat finish stock and plain wood. 30 minutes goes by and the manager comes out to look at it. he takes one look and hands you back the gun. he goes back in the back without saying more than "just a minute". a sales man comes out ten minutes later and offers you $175.00 for it. this happened to me and it was insulting.

sure i don't have to shop there. but i feel it's my responsibility to tell others so they don't waste their time like i did.
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 7:45:24 AM EDT

Originally Posted By terrydavis:

Originally Posted By TexRdnec:
all gun dealers are sorry no good bastard sonsofbitches

it's on the application, not checking the "yes" box is an automatic disqualification



I checked the box, but they haven't issued the certificate yet.



it's implied though you can use several readily available computer programs and make up your own certificate for prominent display in your office, that's what i did anyway
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 7:52:39 AM EDT
Yeah I can't say that there are many dealers out there worth a crap.

To be honest it should be a very simple process.
Customer wants to buy a gun...Dealer sells the gun.
Fill out some forms, collect some $$$, use some common courtesy, and on to the next sale.
No one needs all the drama that is included in a gun sale.

How many people have went into a shop and asked to see a Brand X gun and the dealer or sales idiot says that the item they asked for was junk/crap? What’s even funnier is when they sell the brand.

The two biggest issues seem to be Dealer Attitude and Pricing.
I believe if most fixed number one, then number two would not be such a big issue.
Pricing is not everything.
Dealers must remember that weapons are a hobby for most people.
The mindset of the dealer has to be different when selling non-essential items.
The simplest way to explain the lack of enthusiasm for the local dealer is that these dealers tend to lack the basics knowledge of business (i.e. sales and marketing).

I have been in the sales arena all my life. Sales Guy, Sales Manager, Director of Sales, and Owner.
If you don't provide what your customers want, in the manner in which they expect it, your business will cease to exist.
Simple.
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 8:02:40 AM EDT

Originally Posted By terrydavis:

I susspect I have been to more gunshows than most people on this board, I just don't see these dealers. I see almost all dealers go out of there way to make things right. If I take a firearm in trade and sell it at the same show, obviously I haven't had time to test fire it, tear it apart or do anything but a basic function check. I sell it to you and later something goes wrong. Was I trying to screw you? I don't think so. I told you the situation before you bought it and made sure you have my contact information in case something went wrong.



Having been to many gunshows (though not as many as you I admit) I see dealers who are scrupulous. I'm not saying all dealers are bad. Don't take me as saying that. I've dealt with many dealers who are good guys, whether it is staff at a large firearm store like CTD! or a small mom and & pop FFL who operate only at the shows.

I've also seen dealers offer me 1/5 the value of a firearm and a tell me to leave if I don't like his offer. Attitude plays into it also like HK940 said. I know the dealers that treat me well, and I can vote with my wallet if they are butt monkeys.
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 8:03:07 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Tonster:
Yeah I can't say that there are many dealers out there worth a crap.

To be honest it should be a very simple process.
Customer wants to buy a gun...Dealer sells the gun.
Fill out some forms, collect some $$$, use some common courtesy, and on to the next sale.
No one needs all the drama that is included in a gun sale.

How many people have went into a shop and asked to see a Brand X gun and the dealer or sales idiot says that the item they asked for was junk/crap? What’s even funnier is when they sell the brand.

The two biggest issues seem to be Dealer Attitude and Pricing.
I believe if most fixed number one, then number two would not be such a big issue.
Pricing is not everything.
Dealers must remember that weapons are a hobby for most people.
The mindset of the dealer has to be different when selling non-essential items.
The simplest way to explain the lack of enthusiasm for the local dealer is that these dealers tend to lack the basics knowledge of business (i.e. sales and marketing).

I have been in the sales arena all my life. Sales Guy, Sales Manager, Director of Sales, and Owner.
If you don't provide what your customers want, in the manner in which they expect it, your business will cease to exist.
Simple.



And to be fair, you need to realize it is not a hobby for most dealers. Why do you feel the need to hasten their demise. Let nature takes it course, they will be out of business before long.
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 8:05:31 AM EDT

Originally Posted By hk940:
the other side of the coin is if you want to sell a gun. say you have a brand new Browning BPS with a nicly figured high gloss stock. you walk into a gun store to sell it and are told to wait. you see they have BPS shotguns for 450.00 with the mat finish stock and plain wood. 30 minutes goes by and the manager comes out to look at it. he takes one look and hands you back the gun. he goes back in the back without saying more than "just a minute". a sales man comes out ten minutes later and offers you $175.00 for it. this happened to me and it was insulting.



Yes then you get to hear how the offered price is a decent deal as it is only 10% under what they pay for them new.
But remember how they all whin about the small profit margin on firearms.
Which story is it
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 8:12:23 AM EDT

Originally Posted By terrydavis:

Originally Posted By Tonster:
Yeah I can't say that there are many dealers out there worth a crap.

To be honest it should be a very simple process.
Customer wants to buy a gun...Dealer sells the gun.
Fill out some forms, collect some $$$, use some common courtesy, and on to the next sale.
No one needs all the drama that is included in a gun sale.

How many people have went into a shop and asked to see a Brand X gun and the dealer or sales idiot says that the item they asked for was junk/crap? What’s even funnier is when they sell the brand.

The two biggest issues seem to be Dealer Attitude and Pricing.
I believe if most fixed number one, then number two would not be such a big issue.
Pricing is not everything.
Dealers must remember that weapons are a hobby for most people.
The mindset of the dealer has to be different when selling non-essential items.
The simplest way to explain the lack of enthusiasm for the local dealer is that these dealers tend to lack the basics knowledge of business (i.e. sales and marketing).

I have been in the sales arena all my life. Sales Guy, Sales Manager, Director of Sales, and Owner.
If you don't provide what your customers want, in the manner in which they expect it, your business will cease to exist.
Simple.



And to be fair, you need to realize it is not a hobby for most dealers. Why do you feel the need to hasten their demise. Let nature takes it course, they will be out of business before long.



Owning a weapon IS a hobby for most of us.
If selling guns is the livelihood of the dealer I would darn sure make sure my shop was as conducive to sales as possible. That’s my point.
I used to do consulting for business in trouble in my free time.
Many times a business can be turned around; however it all depends on the owner.
The point I make is that many shop owners think that the customer is the problem. Yes they can be difficult, but the customer is income.
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 8:26:26 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 8:29:30 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Tonster:

Originally Posted By hk940:
the other side of the coin is if you want to sell a gun. say you have a brand new Browning BPS with a nicly figured high gloss stock. you walk into a gun store to sell it and are told to wait. you see they have BPS shotguns for 450.00 with the mat finish stock and plain wood. 30 minutes goes by and the manager comes out to look at it. he takes one look and hands you back the gun. he goes back in the back without saying more than "just a minute". a sales man comes out ten minutes later and offers you $175.00 for it. this happened to me and it was insulting.



Yes then you get to hear how the offered price is a decent deal as it is only 10% under what they pay for them new.
But remember how they all whin about the small profit margin on firearms.
Which story is it



Why don't you sell it yourself? The dealer has to take it in, check it to make sure nothing is wrong, advertise it, perhaps on the internet, and various other media maybe even takes it to a gunshow, he has to sit on it depending on the time of year he buys it. It is a seasonal shotgun, peak selling season is in the fall. Prices fluctutate. A national average for percentage of mark up is only 10%.
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 8:31:05 AM EDT

Originally Posted By mojo:

Originally Posted By terrydavis:
Take for example to thread about the dealer collecting tax on a tranfer. Some were very hot about it and wanted to burn the dealer. After all the dust settled we find out that the individual asking for the transfer was breaking the law by not paying the use tax and that the dealer was completly above board in his conduct. Despite the facts that dealer will be loosing business because of trash talking.



Transferring fee....IS there a tax on it?

If I understand correctly that if you stock and sell a merchandise, then there's a tax....But a service fee (in this case, transferring fee)? I'm not sure? Kind of like you go to a doctor for a visit, and his service fee is $50.00 and he tag a tax on it (never seen it happened)?



It is the law. Agree or not, it is still the law.
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 8:37:40 AM EDT
As far as the transfer fee is concerned - yes, that's taxable according to my understanding.

The thread in question, however, made me believe that the dealer was charging tax ON THE FIREARM'S VALUE ITSELF, not on the transfer, and that's just plain wrong. If I go to a dealer for an FFL transfer, then he is simply the recipient of MY property subject to ATF approval. I have purchased the firearm, I have paid shipping, and I have paid applicable taxes.

As far as dealers and gunshows and all that: The consumer is now acutely aware of how much firearms cost the dealer (or pretty close to) thanks to the internet. With that knowledge in mind, some have a more difficult time than others to appreciate the fact that the dealer needs to make a living too.

On the other hand, some items are priced to make you shake your head and wonder "what the hell is this guy thinking?" The easy answer is: he's not thinking, so just keep walking.

But it's a lot of fun bitching about it on the internet.
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 8:58:25 AM EDT

Originally Posted By terrydavis:

Originally Posted By Tonster:

Originally Posted By hk940:
the other side of the coin is if you want to sell a gun. say you have a brand new Browning BPS with a nicly figured high gloss stock. you walk into a gun store to sell it and are told to wait. you see they have BPS shotguns for 450.00 with the mat finish stock and plain wood. 30 minutes goes by and the manager comes out to look at it. he takes one look and hands you back the gun. he goes back in the back without saying more than "just a minute". a sales man comes out ten minutes later and offers you $175.00 for it. this happened to me and it was insulting.



Yes then you get to hear how the offered price is a decent deal as it is only 10% under what they pay for them new.
But remember how they all whin about the small profit margin on firearms.
Which story is it



Why don't you sell it yourself? The dealer has to take it in, check it to make sure nothing is wrong, advertise it, perhaps on the internet, and various other media maybe even takes it to a gunshow, he has to sit on it depending on the time of year he buys it. It is a seasonal shotgun, peak selling season is in the fall. Prices fluctutate. A national average for percentage of mark up is only 10%.




I personally would never be desperate enough to try to sell (give) any firearm to a dealer.
I would sell the item myself or keep it.
Ok so what is the time/dollar investment in a "brand new Browning BPS with a nicly figured high gloss stock"
Lets see $175.00 for said gun and maybe $50 (gracious $ amount btw) for a safety check.
Selling this weapon used as/is I assume so no further investment on dealers end
So $225 for a weapon that will retail for at least $500.
Advertising in the firearm business is fairly minimal, however I did forgot the extra charge for gunshop dust on weapons.
So basically dealer should expect a 100%+ profit margin for said gun?
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 9:12:36 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Tonster:

Originally Posted By terrydavis:

Originally Posted By Tonster:

Originally Posted By hk940:
the other side of the coin is if you want to sell a gun. say you have a brand new Browning BPS with a nicly figured high gloss stock. you walk into a gun store to sell it and are told to wait. you see they have BPS shotguns for 450.00 with the mat finish stock and plain wood. 30 minutes goes by and the manager comes out to look at it. he takes one look and hands you back the gun. he goes back in the back without saying more than "just a minute". a sales man comes out ten minutes later and offers you $175.00 for it. this happened to me and it was insulting.



Yes then you get to hear how the offered price is a decent deal as it is only 10% under what they pay for them new.
But remember how they all whin about the small profit margin on firearms.
Which story is it



Why don't you sell it yourself? The dealer has to take it in, check it to make sure nothing is wrong, advertise it, perhaps on the internet, and various other media maybe even takes it to a gunshow, he has to sit on it depending on the time of year he buys it. It is a seasonal shotgun, peak selling season is in the fall. Prices fluctutate. A national average for percentage of mark up is only 10%.




I personally would never be desperate enough to try to sell (give) any firearm to a dealer.
I would sell the item myself or keep it.
Ok so what is the time/dollar investment in a "brand new Browning BPS with a nicly figured high gloss stock"
Lets see $175.00 for said gun and maybe $50 (gracious $ amount btw) for a safety check.
Selling this weapon used as/is I assume so no further investment on dealers end
So $225 for a weapon that will retail for at least $500.
Advertising in the firearm business is fairly minimal, however I did forgot the extra charge for gunshop dust on weapons.
So basically dealer should expect a 100%+ profit margin for said gun?



Every time you buy clothes or furniture you pay at least a 100% mark up. Why are you selective in your complaint? I think dealers are entitled to make a living.
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 10:20:01 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/11/2005 10:23:39 AM EDT by ProfessorEvil]

Originally Posted By terrydavis:
I think dealers are entitled to make a living.



They are entitled to try, nothing more. A good dealer with good service will get word-of -mouth. A bad dealer will get bad mouthed.

About two months ago, someone from Houston was talking bad about a dealer he had a bad experience with. About 10 other folks posted how much they liked said dealer, and would continue to do business with him.

When I go looking for a dealer I ask all my friends where they go. See what they do and don't like. I try them out, see if they work for me. Just because I read it here doesn't make it a bad place, or a good place. Certainly there are times when some dealers actions here will prevent me from going to them, but random postings here probably shouldn't be too high on the worry list of any reputable dealer. Too many dealers in the past have gotten too amped up over what they read and break out with pompous posturing and occasionally legal threats over it. Tells me PDQ not to do business with them. How you treat your customers here, there, and everywhere will reflect better upon you than some asshat complaining about his $5 sling not being what he thought it was.
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 10:23:15 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ProfessorEvil:

Originally Posted By terrydavis:
I think dealers are entitled to make a living.



They are entitled to try, nothing more. A good dealer with good service will get word-of -mouth. A bad dealer will get bad mouthed.

About two months ago, someone from Houston was talking bad about a dealer he had a bad experience with. About 10 other folks posted how much they liked said dealer, and would continue to do business with him.

When I go looking for a dealer I ask all my friends where they go. See what they do and don't like. I try them out, see if they work for me. Just because I read it here doesn't make it a bad place, or a good place. Certainly there are times when some dealers actions here will prevent me from going to them, but random postings here probably shouldn't be too high on the worry list of any reputable dealer.



And what would you do if it were your name and reputation being bashed on the internet?
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 10:24:44 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/11/2005 10:25:31 AM EDT by ProfessorEvil]

Originally Posted By terrydavis:
And what would you do if it were your name and reputation being bashed on the internet?



Probably nothing.
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 10:30:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By terrydavis:
[And what would you do if it were your name and reputation being bashed on the internet?



Here's the deal, looking at it from my point of view:

"The customer is always right"

End of story.

The reason for this is simple: Even if the customer is a complete asshat and totally in the wrong, YOUR reputation as a dealer is still going to take a hit if you argue with him. End of story.

I had a disagreement some time back with Ameetec arms. I posted my experience here knowing that a lot of folks have had good luck with them. The Ameetec guy comes on and starts bitching me out and lost a lot more customers than if he had kept his mouth shut. Even if I had been completely wrong (which I wasn't), it would sill have been more adventageous to either keep his mouth shut or to at least TRY to be deferential.

If you have a good reputation as a dealer - and the only way to get that is, as PE has alluded to, through good service and a faithful clientele then word will get around. People will come to your defense, and othes will write off the incident to "everyone has a bad day sometime." Arguing with the customer in a public forum is always a bad idea.
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 10:36:51 AM EDT

Originally Posted By terrydavis:

Originally Posted By Tonster:

Originally Posted By terrydavis:

Originally Posted By Tonster:

Originally Posted By hk940:
the other side of the coin is if you want to sell a gun. say you have a brand new Browning BPS with a nicly figured high gloss stock. you walk into a gun store to sell it and are told to wait. you see they have BPS shotguns for 450.00 with the mat finish stock and plain wood. 30 minutes goes by and the manager comes out to look at it. he takes one look and hands you back the gun. he goes back in the back without saying more than "just a minute". a sales man comes out ten minutes later and offers you $175.00 for it. this happened to me and it was insulting.



Yes then you get to hear how the offered price is a decent deal as it is only 10% under what they pay for them new.
But remember how they all whin about the small profit margin on firearms.
Which story is it



Why don't you sell it yourself? The dealer has to take it in, check it to make sure nothing is wrong, advertise it, perhaps on the internet, and various other media maybe even takes it to a gunshow, he has to sit on it depending on the time of year he buys it. It is a seasonal shotgun, peak selling season is in the fall. Prices fluctutate. A national average for percentage of mark up is only 10%.




I personally would never be desperate enough to try to sell (give) any firearm to a dealer.
I would sell the item myself or keep it.
Ok so what is the time/dollar investment in a "brand new Browning BPS with a nicly figured high gloss stock"
Lets see $175.00 for said gun and maybe $50 (gracious $ amount btw) for a safety check.
Selling this weapon used as/is I assume so no further investment on dealers end
So $225 for a weapon that will retail for at least $500.
Advertising in the firearm business is fairly minimal, however I did forgot the extra charge for gunshop dust on weapons.
So basically dealer should expect a 100%+ profit margin for said gun?



Every time you buy clothes or furniture you pay at least a 100% mark up. Why are you selective in your complaint? I think dealers are entitled to make a living.



Furniture is closer to 300%. It has one of the highest margins in the retail world.
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 11:16:46 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Zhukov:

Originally Posted By terrydavis:
[And what would you do if it were your name and reputation being bashed on the internet?



Here's the deal, looking at it from my point of view:

"The customer is always right"

End of story.

The reason for this is simple: Even if the customer is a complete asshat and totally in the wrong, YOUR reputation as a dealer is still going to take a hit if you argue with him. End of story.

I had a disagreement some time back with Ameetec arms. I posted my experience here knowing that a lot of folks have had good luck with them. The Ameetec guy comes on and starts bitching me out and lost a lot more customers than if he had kept his mouth shut. Even if I had been completely wrong (which I wasn't), it would sill have been more adventageous to either keep his mouth shut or to at least TRY to be deferential.

If you have a good reputation as a dealer - and the only way to get that is, as PE has alluded to, through good service and a faithful clientele then word will get around. People will come to your defense, and othes will write off the incident to "everyone has a bad day sometime." Arguing with the customer in a public forum is always a bad idea.



We are talking in theory here, not about a specific case. The way I handle it is if it is a safety/liability issue I am always right. If you can show greater experience than I have with documentation I might listen. If you can show you know more than me, why are you coming to me? If the customer doesn't agree I will refuse to do business with him. Same thing if it is a legal issue. I am not going to go to jail for no man. Other than that, I will state my case once and only once, you are an adult, you take it from there.
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 11:28:44 AM EDT

Originally Posted By terrydavis:
We are talking in theory here, not about a specific case. The way I handle it is if it is a safety/liability issue I am always right. If you can show greater experience than I have with documentation I might listen. If you can show you know more than me, why are you coming to me? If the customer doesn't agree I will refuse to do business with him. Same thing if it is a legal issue. I am not going to go to jail for no man. Other than that, I will state my case once and only once, you are an adult, you take it from there.



Zhuk was talking theory, and provided an example as well. You do as you see fit. If you are considered a good dealer, than I doubt you'd be concerned by an uhappy person posting threads on arfcom about you.
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 11:37:04 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ProfessorEvil:

Originally Posted By terrydavis:
We are talking in theory here, not about a specific case. The way I handle it is if it is a safety/liability issue I am always right. If you can show greater experience than I have with documentation I might listen. If you can show you know more than me, why are you coming to me? If the customer doesn't agree I will refuse to do business with him. Same thing if it is a legal issue. I am not going to go to jail for no man. Other than that, I will state my case once and only once, you are an adult, you take it from there.



Zhuk was talking theory, and provided an example as well. You do as you see fit. If you are considered a good dealer, than I doubt you'd be concerned by an uhappy person posting threads on arfcom about you.



We are saying the same thing although I cited two instances where I am always right. I don't argue with customers. If it is a safety/liability/legal issue, I end the conversation and send them on their way if they want to argue. I don't talk about them behind their backs or post on the internet. Or maybe I should, I have a custome that keeps on commiting to buying something I have in inventory, I pull it and he never comes to pick it up and won't return phone calls. He's burned me three times, I guess that was strike three for him.
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 12:32:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By terrydavis:

Originally Posted By Tonster:

Originally Posted By terrydavis:

Originally Posted By Tonster:

Originally Posted By hk940:
the other side of the coin is if you want to sell a gun. say you have a brand new Browning BPS with a nicly figured high gloss stock. you walk into a gun store to sell it and are told to wait. you see they have BPS shotguns for 450.00 with the mat finish stock and plain wood. 30 minutes goes by and the manager comes out to look at it. he takes one look and hands you back the gun. he goes back in the back without saying more than "just a minute". a sales man comes out ten minutes later and offers you $175.00 for it. this happened to me and it was insulting.



Yes then you get to hear how the offered price is a decent deal as it is only 10% under what they pay for them new.
But remember how they all whin about the small profit margin on firearms.
Which story is it



Why don't you sell it yourself? The dealer has to take it in, check it to make sure nothing is wrong, advertise it, perhaps on the internet, and various other media maybe even takes it to a gunshow, he has to sit on it depending on the time of year he buys it. It is a seasonal shotgun, peak selling season is in the fall. Prices fluctutate. A national average for percentage of mark up is only 10%.




I personally would never be desperate enough to try to sell (give) any firearm to a dealer.
I would sell the item myself or keep it.
Ok so what is the time/dollar investment in a "brand new Browning BPS with a nicly figured high gloss stock"
Lets see $175.00 for said gun and maybe $50 (gracious $ amount btw) for a safety check.
Selling this weapon used as/is I assume so no further investment on dealers end
So $225 for a weapon that will retail for at least $500.
Advertising in the firearm business is fairly minimal, however I did forgot the extra charge for gunshop dust on weapons.
So basically dealer should expect a 100%+ profit margin for said gun?



Every time you buy clothes or furniture you pay at least a 100% mark up. Why are you selective in your complaint? I think dealers are entitled to make a living.



This is America we are a capitalistic society and we play in the world of free trade.
Gun dealers can run their business as they see fit, just like anyone else.
They can charge whatever amount they want for the product they sell.
The problem they run into is that the product they sell can be bought at a number of other places. In short if a consumer can buy the same thing for $50 less down the road (or from their home) then it’s the dealer’s job to educate me on why I should buy a product from them. Simple. Most dealers however will only offer up bad attitude and nothing more. This is the core problem. No business/sales skills. If they continue to act in this manner they will continue to have a rough road.
In regards to the 100% mark-up in the above scenario. I am a-ok with a company marking the product up 500% (if they can get it). Dealers should just stop talking about the fact that they make so little margin when the rest of the world knows it is just not true.
What other industry do you get to hear the owners crying about the amount of profit they make?
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 12:39:02 PM EDT
I didn't think we were discussing legalities, only the customer's and dealer's respective attitudes.
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 12:47:14 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 12:48:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Zhukov:
I didn't think we were discussing legalities, only the customer's and dealer's respective attitudes.



Yes this is the last stages of defense
Kind of like the government is looking out for us because of "safety/liability/legal issues"
You are 100% correct Zhukov it’s about the attitudes FIRST.
Again it is an easy process. Person wants a gun, fills out some forms, payment is made, and on to the next sale. Simple stuff this is.
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 12:50:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/11/2005 12:54:40 PM EDT by Tonster]

Originally Posted By COZ_45:

Originally Posted By TexRdnec:
all gun dealers are sorry no good bastard sonsofbitches

it's on the application, not checking the "yes" box is an automatic disqualification



Yep. I had to apply twice before I realized that my lineage, or lack thereof, was a qualification!




NOW NOW Coz_45
I know your one of the good guys!!!!!
So you MUST have filled in that box incorrectly

As for that TexRdnec guy...
I have never met him in person however he seems like someone I would get along well with!!!
He did help me answer alot of questions I asked him via IM about propane for my place in Rockport, however this was pre-FFl
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 1:20:34 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 1:34:00 PM EDT
The problems that you are describing are not exclusive to firearms dealers. They are the same with just about every consumer items.

Take a look at lawnmowers. I took my broken down old lawnmower to a guy to fix the other day. He (the owner) starts off telling me how parts are not readily available any more, then on with a bunch of other bullshit. I think he was angling for me to just up and buy a new mower. I don't know what his angle was, but he was the worst salesman I have ever seen. He probably knew more about lawnmowers than anyone else, but he couldn't make it happen. I didn't buy a lawnmower, but if he had approached it right, I would have. The same thing happens with firearms dealers.

You know, americans love to bitch. We are always bitching about something. Usually not the right thing. The internet is a great forum to bitch with. You can hide behind your keyboard, and bitch your head off, and just about everyone reading it will agree with you.

One of the things that a dealer could do is what we do here at work when a customer calls with a complaint. We agree with him. You can't argue with someone agreeing with you. Then we ask them what it will take to make them happy. If they have a legitimate complaint, they will tell you what it will take. If it is not completely out of the question, we do it. Doing this on an internet forum like Arfcom would be priceless. You couldn't buy advertising like that. Usually what happens, when someone bashes a dealer on the internet, they want to fight, they just don't fight smart. They go out there and call names and get bloody just like the other guy. They might end up winning the battle, but they lose the war, by showing the world that they can be assholes just like everyone else.

Just my 2 cents worth on marketing and sales.
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 1:52:17 PM EDT
i have no problems with paying a bit more at a local dealer that treats customers as people and not dumbasses.

i use to be a business owner and understand that there are bills to be paid and that there is no price matching with some internet junky, cant do it you'd go broke!


but when i ran my business i always treated the customer right and took care of what i needed to and always had repeat/loyal customers.

i also made an effort to know what i was selling and would let the customer know when i didnt know what i was talking about, no need for lies and false advertisement.


the majority of the shops around here have ridiculous prices but still understandable to a point, and i have paid outrageous prices in my time just because the sevice was there.

there are some shops that would tell you an sks was an ar15 if he new you didnt.

there was one instance that a dealer pawned off a pos ar on me, even when asked about its realiability and told i guarantee it runs flawless. bought it and could get the thing to cycle, load, eject, shoot more than one round at a time. brought it back the next day and the guy acted like he didnt even know who the hell i was or what i was bringing in the shop when i told him about it he said he had never seen the rifle in his life
but luckily i got it in writing and after a good loooong time of hassling and having other customers hear about their sh!t a$$ service and leave they finally gave me back my money(actually a check when i gave them cash) then they tried to charge restocking fee.


there have been many instances where most would have set the place on fire but i have always been real calm about most of them.


the complaint is that there are too many of them and not enough guys that would actually take care of business.

when i frequent gun shops and about to buy any type of product think about price last! if the sevice aint there then there is no need to think about a price.

all this being said there have been a few shops that have always taken care of what they should be and i still shop there, and when i need something they have i pay the premium to have it when i part with my money and to be able to hold the product before my purchase.



i also try and stay loyal to those that have taken care of me.
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 1:57:53 PM EDT
I believe it boils down to sales skills. From what I have seen over the years going to gun shows, most dealers dont have sales skills. There are exceptions. At the recent Frisco show I had the pleasure of dealing with two very courteous, professional dealers. I would go back to them in a heartbeat (even though I paid a little more than I wanted to.) On the flipside, there were several dealers who were flippant, rude or didn't even pay attention to me (in that instance I was looking at purchasing a weapon light and wanted to look at it out of the case and ask some questions; dealer finally came over to me after I yelled to him, he was just standing down the aisle staring into space, gave me the light and proceeded to walk off again; he never did come back to me, couldve walked off with the damn thing and he probably would not have missed it, but I handed it back to his wife/girlfriend/whatever.)

Business is business and it should not matter that this business is gun related. It does not mean the dealer can get that snooty attitude. They are there to help me and in turn I help them by buying their product. It doesnt work the other way around. If I walked up to a dealer and he said "how can you help me" instead of "how can I HELP YOU" I would tell him I can help him straight out of business.
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 2:15:49 PM EDT
oh man!

the ignoring thing gets on my nerves too! wether it be cause im a minority,the way i look or whatever reason.



at least act like you want to sell something!
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 4:07:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By eklikwhoa:
oh man!

the ignoring thing gets on my nerves too! wether it be cause im a minority,the way i look or whatever reason.



at least act like you want to sell something!



On the other hand I have been in the middle of a sale and people start yelling at me. What do I do? Rudly leave the person I'm helping, hang up on NICS, what exactly do you expect me to do? I can't simply hand you a pistol and walk away, I would rather lose a sale than I a pistol stolen. Most Dealers get their attitudes from their customers.
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 4:08:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Zhukov:
I didn't think we were discussing legalities, only the customer's and dealer's respective attitudes.



Only as far as your statement about the customer always being right. I'm not going to lose my license or go to prision because someone want me to break the law. In that requard the customer is always wrong.
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 4:11:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 338winmag:

One of the things that a dealer could do is what we do here at work when a customer calls with a complaint. We agree with him. You can't argue with someone agreeing with you. Then we ask them what it will take to make them happy. If they have a legitimate complaint, they will tell you what it will take. If it is not completely out of the question, we do it. Doing this on an internet forum like Arfcom would be priceless. You couldn't buy advertising like that. Usually what happens, when someone bashes a dealer on the internet, they want to fight, they just don't fight smart. They go out there and call names and get bloody just like the other guy. They might end up winning the battle, but they lose the war, by showing the world that they can be assholes just like everyone else.

Just my 2 cents worth on marketing and sales.



That’s a great way to keep customers. Try to give them what they want…What the heck’s up with that
Seriously I have used to use that approach ALOT.
You show you care then you resolve the problem.
This is a tried and true technique that has been around for many moons.
Good stuff.

Link Posted: 8/11/2005 4:15:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Tonster:

Originally Posted By Zhukov:
I didn't think we were discussing legalities, only the customer's and dealer's respective attitudes.



Yes this is the last stages of defense
Kind of like the government is looking out for us because of "safety/liability/legal issues"
You are 100% correct Zhukov it’s about the attitudes FIRST.
Again it is an easy process. Person wants a gun, fills out some forms, payment is made, and on to the next sale. Simple stuff this is.



No, not so simple. I am legally accountable for every firearm I sell. I have to make sure all the paperwork is correct. It rarely is. WTF? It is simple, engage your brain before you pick up your pin. Have the correct identification. Update your address. Most people buying firearms know what the deal is, why do you try to get over on a Dealer. You can put him in prison or make him lose his license because it is too much trouble to do something correctly.
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 4:19:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ProfessorEvil:

Originally Posted By terrydavis:
And what would you do if it were your name and reputation being bashed on the internet?



Probably nothing.



Reputation matters, impune mine and I will come for you. If it is valid, of course I will get hot, but I self-evaluate and if an honest criticism, I can change.
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 4:27:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By terrydavis:

Originally Posted By eklikwhoa:
oh man!

the ignoring thing gets on my nerves too! wether it be cause im a minority,the way i look or whatever reason.



at least act like you want to sell something!



On the other hand I have been in the middle of a sale and people start yelling at me. What do I do? Rudly leave the person I'm helping, hang up on NICS, what exactly do you expect me to do? I can't simply hand you a pistol and walk away, I would rather lose a sale than I a pistol stolen. Most Dealers get their attitudes from their customers.



There is no excuse for not acknowledging customers.
Simply smile/nod at them then to acknowledge you see them come in and maybe work in an "I'll be with you in just a moment" type of line. No one would expect you to hand over a firearm and walk off. You seem to put the people YOU NEED to keep your business going into a lower class than yourself. How many people would actually steal from you if you did hand them a weapon? I would bet not even 1%. I believe by your comments and 'tude you may be one of the dealers’ people are talking about.
You know maybe you should ask yourself a question. If you think everyone you sell to is an idiot, rude, or potential thief maybe you’re in the wrong line of work. Maybe retail is not for you.
To be honest your comment "Most Dealers get their attitudes from their customers." speaks volumes about what one can expect in your shop.
Unfortunately for you the customer has the money YOU need to stay open.
Simple as that.
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 4:31:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Tonster:

Originally Posted By terrydavis:

Originally Posted By eklikwhoa:
oh man!

the ignoring thing gets on my nerves too! wether it be cause im a minority,the way i look or whatever reason.



at least act like you want to sell something!



On the other hand I have been in the middle of a sale and people start yelling at me. What do I do? Rudly leave the person I'm helping, hang up on NICS, what exactly do you expect me to do? I can't simply hand you a pistol and walk away, I would rather lose a sale than I a pistol stolen. Most Dealers get their attitudes from their customers.



There is no excuse for not acknowledging customers.
Simply smile/nod at them then to acknowledge you see them come in and maybe work in an "I'll be with you in just a moment" type of line. No one would expect you to hand over a firearm and walk off. You seem to put the people YOU NEED to keep your business going into a lower class than yourself. How many people would actually steal from you if you did hand them a weapon? I would bet not even 1%. I believe by your comments and 'tude you may be one of the dealers’ people are talking about.
You know maybe you should ask yourself a question. If you think everyone you sell to is an idiot, rude, or potential thief maybe you’re in the wrong line of work. Maybe retail is not for you.
To be honest your comment "Most Dealers get their attitudes from their customers." speaks volumes about what one can expect in your shop.
Unfortunately for you the customer has the money YOU need to stay open.
Simple as that.



Average gate 5,000 people 1% = 50 potential theives, using your figures. Most of my attitudes about customers is your attitude about Dealer reflected back at you. The entire point of this thread is for you to start thinking before making blanket statements about corrupt Dealers with Bad Attitudes.
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 4:32:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By terrydavis:

Originally Posted By Tonster:

Originally Posted By Zhukov:
I didn't think we were discussing legalities, only the customer's and dealer's respective attitudes.



Yes this is the last stages of defense
Kind of like the government is looking out for us because of "safety/liability/legal issues"
You are 100% correct Zhukov it’s about the attitudes FIRST.
Again it is an easy process. Person wants a gun, fills out some forms, payment is made, and on to the next sale. Simple stuff this is.



No, not so simple. I am legally accountable for every firearm I sell. I have to make sure all the paperwork is correct. It rarely is. WTF? It is simple, engage your brain before you pick up your pin. Have the correct identification. Update your address. Most people buying firearms know what the deal is, why do you try to get over on a Dealer. You can put him in prison or make him lose his license because it is too much trouble to do something correctly.




I sure your one of those guys who when people mess up and abbreviated LN you get ticked.
Hey its a form...give them another and come back 5 mins later. Simple.
If they do not have valid ID...No sale and explain why. Simple.
Again it seems like you do all you can to "tolorate" your income producing customers
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 4:38:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Tonster:

Originally Posted By terrydavis:

Originally Posted By Tonster:

Originally Posted By Zhukov:
I didn't think we were discussing legalities, only the customer's and dealer's respective attitudes.



Yes this is the last stages of defense
Kind of like the government is looking out for us because of "safety/liability/legal issues"
You are 100% correct Zhukov it’s about the attitudes FIRST.
Again it is an easy process. Person wants a gun, fills out some forms, payment is made, and on to the next sale. Simple stuff this is.



No, not so simple. I am legally accountable for every firearm I sell. I have to make sure all the paperwork is correct. It rarely is. WTF? It is simple, engage your brain before you pick up your pin. Have the correct identification. Update your address. Most people buying firearms know what the deal is, why do you try to get over on a Dealer. You can put him in prison or make him lose his license because it is too much trouble to do something correctly.




I sure your one of those guys who when people mess up and abbreviated LN you get ticked.
Hey its a form...give them another and come back 5 mins later. Simple.
If they do not have valid ID...No sale and explain why. Simple.
Again it seems like you do all you can to "tolorate" your income producing customers



No, I'm not one of those "ticked" Dealers, I'm one of the most fair and laid back Dealers out there. I do a lot of explaining with no rancor. I take the time to explain all the requirement in detail. Usually, the for is grabed out of my hand, the customer shut down his ears telling me he know how to fill it out. Of course there is an average of 5 mistakes on it. Do I give attitude because of it, no. Even if I think you are a dumbshit, I will keep it to myself.
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 4:44:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By terrydavis:

Originally Posted By Tonster:

Originally Posted By terrydavis:

Originally Posted By eklikwhoa:
oh man!

the ignoring thing gets on my nerves too! wether it be cause im a minority,the way i look or whatever reason.



at least act like you want to sell something!



On the other hand I have been in the middle of a sale and people start yelling at me. What do I do? Rudly leave the person I'm helping, hang up on NICS, what exactly do you expect me to do? I can't simply hand you a pistol and walk away, I would rather lose a sale than I a pistol stolen. Most Dealers get their attitudes from their customers.



There is no excuse for not acknowledging customers.
Simply smile/nod at them then to acknowledge you see them come in and maybe work in an "I'll be with you in just a moment" type of line. No one would expect you to hand over a firearm and walk off. You seem to put the people YOU NEED to keep your business going into a lower class than yourself. How many people would actually steal from you if you did hand them a weapon? I would bet not even 1%. I believe by your comments and 'tude you may be one of the dealers’ people are talking about.
You know maybe you should ask yourself a question. If you think everyone you sell to is an idiot, rude, or potential thief maybe you’re in the wrong line of work. Maybe retail is not for you.
To be honest your comment "Most Dealers get their attitudes from their customers." speaks volumes about what one can expect in your shop.
Unfortunately for you the customer has the money YOU need to stay open.
Simple as that.



Average gate 5,000 people 1% = 50 potential theives, using your figures. Most of my attitudes about customers is your attitude about Dealer reflected back at you. The entire point of this thread is for you to start thinking before making blanket statements about corrupt Dealers with Bad Attitudes.



OK out of 5,000 potential customers 50 are scum sucking thieves.
There are tons of other variables but we can go with the 50 number.
So you treat the other 4,950 potential customers as deadbeat thieves?
Not my idea of a winning attitude. See your rational doesn’t work in real life.

I thought you started this thread as a public service announcement to show us what type of dealer you are.
Maybe you could let us in on the name of your biz so we can make our own informed decision on weather to visit you or not.
So far it’s not looking good...maybe add a poll and see what everyone thinks

Link Posted: 8/11/2005 4:53:22 PM EDT
I will add for what it is worth.
I have meet and purchased items from terry at both shows and his shop. I have always been treated fairly and with professionalism.
I think some of you are over-reacting.
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 4:54:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Tonster:

Originally Posted By terrydavis:

Originally Posted By Tonster:

Originally Posted By terrydavis:

Originally Posted By eklikwhoa:
oh man!

the ignoring thing gets on my nerves too! wether it be cause im a minority,the way i look or whatever reason.



at least act like you want to sell something!



On the other hand I have been in the middle of a sale and people start yelling at me. What do I do? Rudly leave the person I'm helping, hang up on NICS, what exactly do you expect me to do? I can't simply hand you a pistol and walk away, I would rather lose a sale than I a pistol stolen. Most Dealers get their attitudes from their customers.



There is no excuse for not acknowledging customers.
Simply smile/nod at them then to acknowledge you see them come in and maybe work in an "I'll be with you in just a moment" type of line. No one would expect you to hand over a firearm and walk off. You seem to put the people YOU NEED to keep your business going into a lower class than yourself. How many people would actually steal from you if you did hand them a weapon? I would bet not even 1%. I believe by your comments and 'tude you may be one of the dealers’ people are talking about.
You know maybe you should ask yourself a question. If you think everyone you sell to is an idiot, rude, or potential thief maybe you’re in the wrong line of work. Maybe retail is not for you.
To be honest your comment "Most Dealers get their attitudes from their customers." speaks volumes about what one can expect in your shop.
Unfortunately for you the customer has the money YOU need to stay open.
Simple as that.



Average gate 5,000 people 1% = 50 potential theives, using your figures. Most of my attitudes about customers is your attitude about Dealer reflected back at you. The entire point of this thread is for you to start thinking before making blanket statements about corrupt Dealers with Bad Attitudes.



OK out of 5,000 potential customers 50 are scum sucking thieves.
There are tons of other variables but we can go with the 50 number.
So you treat the other 4,950 potential customers as deadbeat thieves?
Not my idea of a winning attitude. See your rational doesn’t work in real life.

I thought you started this thread as a public service announcement to show us what type of dealer you are.
Maybe you could let us in on the name of your biz so we can make our own informed decision on weather to visit you or not.
So far it’s not looking good...maybe add a poll and see what everyone thinks


Do you lock your car at night, do you leave your wallet lying around the office how about your cell phone. Send me your credit card numbers, I promise I won't use them. I started this thread because I do notice a lot of generalized negitive statements about Dealers. I think many people are confusing Dealers, those with FFLs and dealers those who rent a table. It is against all logic that all Dealers are crooks with bad attitudes. I would openly say my name and business, but the shrill cry of SHILL would be raised. I'm not trying to sell anything but the idea that all Dealers are not CROOKS and that our relationship is symbiotic in nature. Why are we at each others throats all the time?
Arrow Left Previous Page
Page / 2
Top Top