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Posted: 9/2/2009 6:19:53 PM EST
http://www.desmoinesregister.com/article/20090901/NEWS01/909010365


The driver of a white pickup truck that killed a cyclist Sunday in Warren County has not been found, although sheriff's officials say they are taking calls on similar trucks and checking them out one by one.

The speeding truck slammed into cyclist Mark Grgurich, 54, of Des Moines from behind on County Road G14, killing him instantly. The driver sped away.
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The truck is believed to have a ladder rack or toolbox in the back and a plastic logo. Warren County Detective Brian Vos said it may be a Chevrolet. The truck most likely is about five or six years old.

This was the second crash in Iowa in 12 days in which a bicyclist was killed.

Michael Couch, a longtime friend of Grgurich's, on Monday offered a $10,000 reward for information leading to the arrest and conviction of Sunday's hit-and-run driver.

"Mark was a member of the best group of friends anyone could ever want," Couch said.

Grgurich was a goldsmith and a jewelry designer at Elements Ltd. in Des Moines, and those who knew him said cycling was one of his passions.

"Mark was brilliantly talented. He was one of the most honorable, decent men you could ever hope to meet," said Melanie Parks, one of the owners of Elements. "We've been getting calls from customers who met him briefly to do business. They are moved by this, and they knew what a dear soul he was."

On Aug. 18, bicyclist Mark Walter Anderson, 58, of rural Spencer was killed on U.S. Highway 71 north of Spencer when a van struck him from behind. The driver, Cameron Koopman, 21, of Brewster, Minn., stopped in that case.

Mark Wyatt, executive director of the Iowa Bicycle Coalition, said he was outraged by Sunday's hit-and-run fatality. "Drivers should render aid and notify authorities immediately" after accidents, he said.

Joe Mizereck of Tallahassee, Fla., is founder of the 3 Feet Please campaign, which promotes a law requiring motorists to stay at least 3 feet away from bicyclists when passing from the rear. He said 15 states have such a law, but Iowa is not one of them.

"These cyclists are human beings being left in the road like animals," Mizereck said.

Grgurich was thrown some 130 feet by the impact, indicating the truck was traveling fast at the time, officials said Sunday.

Among Grgurich's survivors are two sisters, a brother, two nephews and a niece, Parks said.

"He was very experienced," Parks said. "He knew how to ride and how to ride safely. He rode almost daily."

Sunday's crash is expected to fuel the discussion about whether bicyclists should be allowed on Iowa's county roads. The Citizens for Safety Coalition of Iowa has urged a ban to Iowa lawmakers.

Following Anderson's death near Spencer, the Iowa Bicycle Coalition posted safety tips on its Web site, telling bicycle riders to ride farther into the traveled portions of roads to increase visibility.

"Riding too close to the white line may decrease visibility of the bicyclist," the group says. "Motorists are looking for other vehicles in or near the travel lanes, not against curbs."

Debate was stirred in April after bicyclist Doug Smith was hit by Cumming farmer John Lynch on a paved Madison County road. Smith, 46, was hit by an anhydrous ammonia tank Lynch was pulling behind a pickup truck.

Some 500 cyclists rallied at the Iowa Statehouse in response to the accident, which left Smith seriously injured.

More bicycle safety discussion occurred after a crash May 12, during Bike to Work Week. Cyclist Leesa Shoemaker, Polk County's chief jailer, was nearly killed when hit from behind by a vehicle north of Des Moines while she was riding her bike to work.
Link Posted: 9/2/2009 6:23:41 PM EST
i took a trip to waterloo yesterday and almost hit 3 of them bikers. one just random swerved as i was passing him. one was a retard crossing the highway when i was right there, and it was dark and he had no lights on so i didnt see him til he was 4 feet away from me.
Link Posted: 9/2/2009 7:11:58 PM EST
It is too bad these folks are getting killed but they act like they own the road a lot of times. They do not get over to the side, ride side by side when there are vehicles trying to pass them, etc. They need to be required to get off the pavement and onto the shoulder when there is traffic in the lane they occupy. We did it when we were kids growing up. We still had people pass close to us but they would have to get off the roadway to hit us.

Some may say that their tires can't handle gravel. Unless you race competitively then there is no reason not to have tires good enough to handle a little gravel.

Sorry if this sounds cold hearted but some of these folks ask to be road kill.
Link Posted: 9/2/2009 7:53:03 PM EST
Originally Posted By river_rat:
It is too bad these folks are getting killed but they act like they own the road a lot of times. They do not get over to the side, ride side by side when there are vehicles trying to pass them, etc. They need to be required to get off the pavement and onto the shoulder when there is traffic in the lane they occupy. We did it when we were kids growing up. We still had people pass close to us but they would have to get off the roadway to hit us.

Some may say that their tires can't handle gravel. Unless you race competitively then there is no reason not to have tires good enough to handle a little gravel.

Sorry if this sounds cold hearted but some of these folks ask to be road kill.


Yeah, can I be your road kill please? I can't think of a better fate.
Link Posted: 9/2/2009 7:56:56 PM EST
Originally Posted By cavscouty:
Yeah, can I be your road kill please? I can't think of a better fate.


Why not make use of the tax dollars that went into building all the bike trails around the state? Then no one has to be road kill.
Link Posted: 9/2/2009 7:59:42 PM EST
Originally Posted By river_rat:
It is too bad these folks are getting killed but they act like they own the road a lot of times. They do not get over to the side, ride side by side when there are vehicles trying to pass them, etc. They need to be required to get off the pavement and onto the shoulder when there is traffic in the lane they occupy. We did it when we were kids growing up. We still had people pass close to us but they would have to get off the roadway to hit us.

Some may say that their tires can't handle gravel. Unless you race competitively then there is no reason not to have tires good enough to handle a little gravel.

Sorry if this sounds cold hearted but some of these folks ask to be road kill.


+1 As you stated, some cyclers with their bad riding habits are asking for trouble.

Link Posted: 9/2/2009 8:01:20 PM EST
Originally Posted By blackta6:
Originally Posted By cavscouty:
Yeah, can I be your road kill please? I can't think of a better fate.


Why not make use of the tax dollars that went into building all the bike trails around the state? Then no one has to be road kill.


Hey blackta6, just who the fuck says I don't? I think it is important to remember however, that one must ride on a road to get to the path. Sorry, my bad, I'm just using a right that I have in this state.
Link Posted: 9/2/2009 8:04:09 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/2/2009 8:11:04 PM EST by cavscouty]
Originally Posted By RyanHass:
Originally Posted By river_rat:
It is too bad these folks are getting killed but they act like they own the road a lot of times. They do not get over to the side, ride side by side when there are vehicles trying to pass them, etc. They need to be required to get off the pavement and onto the shoulder when there is traffic in the lane they occupy. We did it when we were kids growing up. We still had people pass close to us but they would have to get off the roadway to hit us.

Some may say that their tires can't handle gravel. Unless you race competitively then there is no reason not to have tires good enough to handle a little gravel.

Sorry if this sounds cold hearted but some of these folks ask to be road kill.


+1 As you stated, some cyclers with their bad riding habits are asking for trouble.



Sure some riders are assholes, as are some drivers. I'm not going to make excuses for all, but until it is outlawed to ride a bike on public roads, suck it. Just to let the hive know, I ALWAYS follow the rules of the road, and have yet to experience any type of problems with drivers.
edited to add: Ok I've had a few beers tonight and won't be posting back to this thread. Until the laws change, I'll show respect and I hope that respect is shown to me while I'm riding. No one needs to die doing things that are totally legal because of people that may have a problem with the current laws. Think about it.
Link Posted: 9/2/2009 8:43:03 PM EST
i dont mind that they are on the road, as long as they follow same rules drivers have. ie. lights (i rarely see a bike with lights on it at night) get over so faster traffic can pass.
Link Posted: 9/3/2009 2:54:44 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/3/2009 3:01:50 AM EST by septic-tank13]
Originally Posted By cavscouty:
Sorry, my bad, I'm just using a right that I have in this state.


using a public roadway is not a right. it is a privilege. your ability/want/need to travel and seek is a right. the method in which you do it is not... public roadways are loosely defined as taxpayer funded travelways... the original intent was that you paid property tax to maintain the roadway in front of YOUR house while sharing the length of roadway with everyone. the layers of tax and the intention have long since covered that up. today it has morphed into a 'pay to use' scenario with gas tax, property tax, sales tax going into the general fund that in turn gets used to aid roadway or bike trails, etc.

you keep saying you have a right to use the roadway for whatever unlicensed mode of transportation you choose and that isn't true. ATV, tricycle, segway scooter, dune buggy, bicycle, etc. all fall in the same category, but due to the large volume of bicycles over others it is a more accepted means of transportation. thus it is addressed by the DOT to some degree. there are rules for using the roadway and those directives like safe following distance, single file riding, obeying the traffic signs, etc. are all necessary.

i don't wish for any loss of life contrary to what you guys may think. however, as long as the mentality is one of "MY RIGHTS" first and safety second this will continue to happen. all the while we have spent millions on top of millions for dedicated bicycle trails where those choosing that mode of transportation can be free of vehicle tangles. iowa as a state is ranked in the top 5 to my knowledge as having the best and longest series of bike trails - this program will continue to be funding without a vote of the people so i suggest people use them when possible as a default position no matter what.

you can't have it both ways. if you want to ride the roadways it is prudent and responsible to pay to play. you will be involved in accidents just like ALL others on the roadway. considering an bicycles safety features and structure it is going to be extremely damaging when you meet a 4000 pound steel vehicle - this is the way it is... compare vehicle accidents in the state of iowa and then bicycle involved accidents... there are very few and granted there are fewer bicycles, but without seeing a genuine number comparisons i think it is safe to say that a dozen bicycle accidents including ragbrixx isn't too bad...

i'm sorry as hell this person met their fate like this, but logic should prevail. get smart about this issue, not emotional.

Link Posted: 9/3/2009 8:55:17 AM EST
I agree whole heartidly Septic.
Motorcycle riders take the same risks (with minimal personal protection) but at least they can maintain the posted speed limits as to not cause a potential hazard and they pay a vehicle (road use) tax.

Here are the times I really enjoy....
You hear a group of bicycleists yelling at a passing car for coming too close to them or for not slowing down as they go by them.
Then a few minutes later you have to stop at a stop sign, only to have that same group of cycleists blow right through the stop sign you're sitting at.

Then you're going down a two lane road with a posted speed limit that is faster than they can maintain, and they are riding 2 or 3 side by side and refuse to get off to the side to ride single file so you can pass.

Real nice.

I'm sure there are many good and understanding riders but I just see VERY FEW.
Link Posted: 9/3/2009 12:48:10 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/3/2009 5:05:48 PM EST by CharlyArmy]
My Opinion:

If they want to ride on any road, all bikes must be licensed ($50 per year, money goes to the county for building bike lanes) and they must have on a reflective vest and helmet, a flashing strope on the front and rear of the bike that is visible from one mile in the daylight, they must ride single file on the edge of the road and must get onto the shoulder when a vehicle approaches from the rear. They must yield to the vehicle at all times and follow all traffic laws, like stopping at the stop sign and signaling.

Moter vehicles, upon seeing the biker should give two short blasts on the horn to let the biker know there is a vehicle behind them and another quick blast about 100 yards away.

I think counties should start a program to include bike lanes along both sides of the roads. Any bike on the bike lane or road without a bike lane must be licensed and the rider equiped with the above safety apparal and equipment. Fines for unlicensed bikes and failure to be properly outfitted with safety apparal and equipment should be heavy with increasing penalties for repeat offenders.
Link Posted: 9/3/2009 2:00:22 PM EST
Originally Posted By CharlyArmy:
... they must ride single file on the edge of the road and must get onto the median when a vehicle approaches from the rear.


charly,

i hope you meant shoulder... lol...

Link Posted: 9/3/2009 3:38:49 PM EST
Originally Posted By septic-tank13:
Originally Posted By cavscouty:
Sorry, my bad, I'm just using a right that I have in this state.


using a public roadway is not a right. it is a privilege. your ability/want/need to travel and seek is a right. the method in which you do it is not... public roadways are loosely defined as taxpayer funded travelways... the original intent was that you paid property tax to maintain the roadway in front of YOUR house while sharing the length of roadway with everyone. the layers of tax and the intention have long since covered that up. today it has morphed into a 'pay to use' scenario with gas tax, property tax, sales tax going into the general fund that in turn gets used to aid roadway or bike trails, etc.

you keep saying you have a right to use the roadway for whatever unlicensed mode of transportation you choose and that isn't true. ATV, tricycle, segway scooter, dune buggy, bicycle, etc. all fall in the same category, but due to the large volume of bicycles over others it is a more accepted means of transportation. thus it is addressed by the DOT to some degree. there are rules for using the roadway and those directives like safe following distance, single file riding, obeying the traffic signs, etc. are all necessary.

i don't wish for any loss of life contrary to what you guys may think. however, as long as the mentality is one of "MY RIGHTS" first and safety second this will continue to happen. all the while we have spent millions on top of millions for dedicated bicycle trails where those choosing that mode of transportation can be free of vehicle tangles. iowa as a state is ranked in the top 5 to my knowledge as having the best and longest series of bike trails - this program will continue to be funding without a vote of the people so i suggest people use them when possible as a default position no matter what.

you can't have it both ways. if you want to ride the roadways it is prudent and responsible to pay to play. you will be involved in accidents just like ALL others on the roadway. considering an bicycles safety features and structure it is going to be extremely damaging when you meet a 4000 pound steel vehicle - this is the way it is... compare vehicle accidents in the state of iowa and then bicycle involved accidents... there are very few and granted there are fewer bicycles, but without seeing a genuine number comparisons i think it is safe to say that a dozen bicycle accidents including ragbrixx isn't too bad...

i'm sorry as hell this person met their fate like this, but logic should prevail. get smart about this issue, not emotional.



AMEN.

There are minimum speed limits on interstates for a reason.

The same rational should apply to bicycles on streets.
Link Posted: 9/3/2009 5:04:30 PM EST
Originally Posted By septic-tank13:
Originally Posted By CharlyArmy:
... they must ride single file on the edge of the road and must get onto the median when a vehicle approaches from the rear.


charly,

i hope you meant shoulder... lol...



ya, I meant shoulder
Link Posted: 9/3/2009 7:46:25 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/3/2009 7:48:34 PM EST by cavscouty]
Originally Posted By The_Reaper:


AMEN.

There are minimum speed limits on interstates for a reason.

The same rational should apply to bicycles on streets.


This coming from the guy that thinks his FIL that served in the Air Force as a pencil pusher, shouldn't wear a Air Force Veterans hat. Nice rational. OK, now I'm done.
Originally Posted By The_Reaper:

Actually, my father in law was in the air force.

He wanted an "Air Force Veteran"'s hat for his birthday.

I wasn't sure I thought it was right for him to display such a hat since he was a pencil pusher.

Wife argued that a veteran was a veteran. I disagreed.


http://www.ar15.com/forums/manageReply.html?a=quote&b=1&f=5&t=895341&r=18430979&page=5
Link Posted: 9/4/2009 7:43:53 AM EST
From the morning news;

Looks like they found the truck involved, and are trying to ascertain who was driving it.
Link Posted: 9/4/2009 1:35:24 PM EST
I was driving through Cedar Rapids around midnight the other day. I drove past Coe College and went around a corner. I had no stop sign and the right of way. There's an intersection partway through the curve. As I passed the intersection, a bicyclist rode out in front of me. He had no lights, did not stop at his stop sign, and I only saw him when he was in my headlights and about a yard away from the front of my truck.

Bicyclists don't have a right to be on the road. Anyone who wants to ride a bicycle on a road built for cars, especially a highway, should always yield to cars.
Link Posted: 9/4/2009 2:13:10 PM EST
Originally Posted By cavscouty:
Originally Posted By The_Reaper:


AMEN.

There are minimum speed limits on interstates for a reason.

The same rational should apply to bicycles on streets.


This coming from the guy that thinks his FIL that served in the Air Force as a pencil pusher, shouldn't wear a Air Force Veterans hat. Nice rational. OK, now I'm done.
Originally Posted By The_Reaper:

Actually, my father in law was in the air force.

He wanted an "Air Force Veteran"'s hat for his birthday.

I wasn't sure I thought it was right for him to display such a hat since he was a pencil pusher.

Wife argued that a veteran was a veteran. I disagreed.


http://www.ar15.com/forums/manageReply.html?a=quote&b=1&f=5&t=895341&r=18430979&page=5

Nice personal attack that is in no way relevant to the discussion here.
Link Posted: 9/4/2009 4:06:39 PM EST
Originally Posted By cavscouty:
Originally Posted By The_Reaper:


AMEN.

There are minimum speed limits on interstates for a reason.

The same rational should apply to bicycles on streets.


This coming from the guy that thinks his FIL that served in the Air Force as a pencil pusher, shouldn't wear a Air Force Veterans hat. Nice rational. OK, now I'm done.



Not sure what one opinion has to do with the other.

As you noted, I said I wasn't sure I thought my FIL was a veteran since he never served in combat.

I started that thread seeking clarification, and I got it. I learned something. Anyone serving in any capacity is a veteran.

But I still believe bicycles don't belong on the same roads as cars.

And I won't feel too sorry for a bicyclist injured or killed if they are on a highway obstructing traffic.
Link Posted: 9/4/2009 6:21:42 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/4/2009 6:23:38 PM EST by Bettendorf]
Originally Posted By Spyw:
Originally Posted By cavscouty:
Originally Posted By The_Reaper:


AMEN.

There are minimum speed limits on interstates for a reason.

The same rational should apply to bicycles on streets.


This coming from the guy that thinks his FIL that served in the Air Force as a pencil pusher, shouldn't wear a Air Force Veterans hat. Nice rational. OK, now I'm done.
Originally Posted By The_Reaper:

Actually, my father in law was in the air force.

He wanted an "Air Force Veteran"'s hat for his birthday.

I wasn't sure I thought it was right for him to display such a hat since he was a pencil pusher.

Wife argued that a veteran was a veteran. I disagreed.


http://www.ar15.com/forums/manageReply.html?a=quote&b=1&f=5&t=895341&r=18430979&page=5

Nice personal attack that is in no way relevant to the discussion here.


How was that a personal attack? Cavscouty was just pointing out something else The Reaper said that made no sense. Cavscouty didn't make The Reaper look like an ass. The Reaper did it all by himself. Cavscouty was just pointing it out.
In the Reaper's defence, he cleared himself up after the issue was raised. Hopefully, he will see the light again and not see a problem with bike riders on roads in Iowa. but i doubt it.
Link Posted: 9/4/2009 10:23:37 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/4/2009 10:29:08 PM EST by blackta6]
Originally Posted By cavscouty:
Originally Posted By blackta6:
Originally Posted By cavscouty:
Yeah, can I be your road kill please? I can't think of a better fate.


Why not make use of the tax dollars that went into building all the bike trails around the state? Then no one has to be road kill.


Hey blackta6, just who the fuck says I don't? I think it is important to remember however, that one must ride on a road to get to the path. WRONG! Sorry, my bad, I'm just using a right that I have in this state.


Since you want to, WHO the fuck said I never rode a bicycle? I have a very nice bike and aint dumb to temp my fate against things like 2-3 Ton semis, hence I put it in my trunk and drove to the PARKING LOTS that have also been built at taxpayer expense for the bike trails. There is a new parking lot being constructed in my home town of Madrid. There is a parking lot located at the Neal Smith Bike Trail outside of Johnston. There are multiple parking lots along the major bike trails in Cedar Rapids. It is funny doing a quick google search all of the websites that give information on bike trails do not list that these facilities have parking areas.

ETA: I have strong beliefs on this due to a friend having killed a bicycilist in high school. It was an unfortunate accident due to a rising sun and a biker that didn't want to get off on the shoulder. Messed up my friend so bad he refused to drive until after 9 am. Likewise the biker's family did everything under state law to get back at him.
Link Posted: 9/5/2009 2:38:46 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/5/2009 2:43:24 PM EST by cavscouty]
Originally Posted By blackta6:

ETA: I have strong beliefs on this due to a friend having killed a bicycilist in high school. It was an unfortunate accident due to a rising sun and a biker that didn't want to get off on the shoulder. Messed up my friend so bad he refused to drive until after 9 am. Likewise the biker's family did everything under state law to get back at him.


That's it, blame the dead guy, that I presume was following the law, and the sun. How did that work out for him?, just curious.
Driving is a privilege, riding a bike on a public road is a right.


In other news.
By O.Kay Henderson
The Iowa Senate has endorsed a so-called "Bicyclist's Bill of Rights."

A bill which passed the Senate late this afternoon would require motorists to mainain a five-foot distance when passing a bicyclist, and motorists caught following a bicyclist too closely could face a $25 ticket –– but if the cyclist is injured, the fine jumps to $500. If the cyclist is killed, the fine would be $1000.

Senator Matt McCoy, a Democrat from Des Moines, said eight bicyclists were killed on Iowa roadways last year. "When you have a state where you're seeing consistently eight or ten people a year killed on Iowa's roads through bicycling and you're seeing 430 injuries, you do have a problem and that you ought to spend a little time working and educating Iowans about how to share the road," McCoy said.

But Republicans complained the bill fails to hold bicyclists to the same standards as motorists. Senator Larry Noble, a Republican from Ankeny, is a retired state trooper. "In a motor vehicle, a person operating while intoxicated has their license suspended. What about bicyclists? In a motor vehicle, a driver must take a test to operate the motor vehicle. What about a bicyclists? In a motor vehicle, a person must show proof of insurance. What about a bicyclist?" Noble asked. "And I could go on and on."

Senator Joel Bolkcom, a Democrat from Iowa City, said it's becoming more and more dangerous to ride bikes on Iowa roads. "I wish we didn't need this bill, but I think we do because I think it's time that we recognize that we have a problem and that's rising fatalities," Bolkcom said. "This shouldn't be a partisan issue. This is about the safety of all the people out there that need this protection."

Senator Brad Zaun, a Republican from Urbandale, said he and his 11-year-old son ride their bikes together nearly every night in the summer, but Zaun thinks the bill is silly. "What's next –– the motorcycle bill of rights? The snowmobiler's bill of rights? The runners' bill of rights? The golf carts' bill of rights?" Zaun asked. "I mean, how many of these bills are we going to do?"

The bill now goes to the House, where it faces an uncertain future. If the bill does become law, it would prohibit someone from opening a car door into bicycle traffic and it would give bicyclists the right of way when a bike trail intersects with a street.
Link Posted: 9/5/2009 4:09:05 PM EST
Originally Posted By cavscouty:

By O.Kay Henderson
The Iowa Senate has endorsed a so-called "Bicyclist's Bill of Rights."

A bill which passed the Senate late this afternoon would require motorists to mainain a five-foot distance when passing a bicyclist, and motorists caught following a bicyclist too closely could face a $25 ticket –– but if the cyclist is injured, the fine jumps to $500. If the cyclist is killed, the fine would be $1000.

Senator Matt McCoy, a Democrat from Des Moines, said eight bicyclists were killed on Iowa roadways last year. "When you have a state where you're seeing consistently eight or ten people a year killed on Iowa's roads through bicycling and you're seeing 430 injuries, you do have a problem and that you ought to spend a little time working and educating Iowans about how to share the road," McCoy said.

But Republicans complained the bill fails to hold bicyclists to the same standards as motorists. Senator Larry Noble, a Republican from Ankeny, is a retired state trooper. "In a motor vehicle, a person operating while intoxicated has their license suspended. What about bicyclists? In a motor vehicle, a driver must take a test to operate the motor vehicle. What about a bicyclists? In a motor vehicle, a person must show proof of insurance. What about a bicyclist?" Noble asked. "And I could go on and on."

Senator Joel Bolkcom, a Democrat from Iowa City, said it's becoming more and more dangerous to ride bikes on Iowa roads. "I wish we didn't need this bill, but I think we do because I think it's time that we recognize that we have a problem and that's rising fatalities," Bolkcom said. "This shouldn't be a partisan issue. This is about the safety of all the people out there that need this protection."

Senator Brad Zaun, a Republican from Urbandale, said he and his 11-year-old son ride their bikes together nearly every night in the summer, but Zaun thinks the bill is silly. "What's next –– the motorcycle bill of rights? The snowmobiler's bill of rights? The runners' bill of rights? The golf carts' bill of rights?" Zaun asked. "I mean, how many of these bills are we going to do?"

The bill now goes to the House, where it faces an uncertain future. If the bill does become law, it would prohibit someone from opening a car door into bicycle traffic and it would give bicyclists the right of way when a bike trail intersects with a street.


I have no idea what you are trying to say, and I don't care to get into a purse swinging match. The parts of your post I highlighted in red are the only important parts of this news blurb.

I hope this ridiculous bill does not pass.
I'll be stepping out now.
My health is such that I am not interested in internet arguments.

Link Posted: 9/5/2009 4:58:51 PM EST
I feel bad that these guys are getting killed, but thats the chance you take when your riding a bike going 5-10mph and sharing the road with people going 50mph +.I drive truck for a living and have seen my share of bike riders, some are fine, but some of them think they own the road and would rather make you slow down to their speed and be a hazard to other cars coming up behind you, than move off the road so you can get by them. Personally I think that since they don't pay any road taxes on their bikes they really should have to yield to any vehicles at all times.I've seen idiots on both sides of the fence, but something really needs to be done to make things safer for everyone. I really think it would be safer to ride against traffic so you can see what's coming at you and avoid it if need be. And riding farther towards the center of the lane is just plain stupid, that will cause more accidents because people will still try to pass you, even if there is a car coming and either clip the bicycle because they can't clear oncoming traffic or they will run another car off the road. And what happens if you come over a hill, there's a bike in the middle of the lane and there is a car coming from the other direction; if your in a car you might be able to stop, but if your in a semi you'll get stopped 300ft after you turn the bike rider into a pancake. I think all bike riders need to take a manditory class, pay an annual road usage tax like everyone else, and have their bike riding privliages taken away if they disobey the rules. I like the idea of having flourescent vests and strobe lights because alot of people just don't notice bikes because they're so small.
Link Posted: 9/5/2009 5:16:02 PM EST
Originally Posted By cavscouty:
That's it, blame the dead guy, that I presume was following the law, and the sun. How did that work out for him?, just curious.
Driving is a privilege, riding a bike on a public road is a right.


Besides my friends fear of hitting another, the judges dismissed all citations and lawsuits brought forth. If by following the law you mean near the middle of the lane, than ok. The POI was between the passenger side headlight and center of vehicle. Guess maybe the earphones drowned out all that horrible honking and harrasment that others may have given him.

Oh, and thanks, for the heads up I will be making calls to voice my opposition to my elected officals and to let them know enough money has been wasted if people want to place themselves into harms way. Funny how you don't have a comment about the parking lots.

Link Posted: 9/5/2009 5:53:41 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/5/2009 5:57:35 PM EST by RyanHass]
Where is this "right" you keep referring to? From a law standpoint.
Link Posted: 9/5/2009 6:53:00 PM EST
Originally Posted By blackta6:
Originally Posted By cavscouty:
That's it, blame the dead guy, that I presume was following the law, and the sun. How did that work out for him?, just curious.
Driving is a privilege, riding a bike on a public road is a right.


Besides my friends fear of hitting another, the judges dismissed all citations and lawsuits brought forth. If by following the law you mean near the middle of the lane, than ok. The POI was between the passenger side headlight and center of vehicle. Guess maybe the earphones drowned out all that horrible honking and harrasment that others may have given him.

Oh, and thanks, for the heads up I will be making calls to voice my opposition to my elected officals and to let them know enough money has been wasted if people want to place themselves into harms way. Funny how you don't have a comment about the parking lots.


So now the guy was wearing headphones huh? Jesus dude, just stop. I don't care where the POI was, you and I both know cars don't always travel straight down the middle of their lane.

Well I was going to comment about the parking lots but really they don't concern me. I don't drive to ride. I like to get my bike out of the garage and just go. I ride a bike because it is good excercise and I enjoy it. I can't justify to myself DRIVING somewhere to ride my bike, because, after all, its legal to ride on a road.

I'll get back to Ryanhass tomorrow after I get some information of my lawyer about my "right to ride".

Link Posted: 9/5/2009 6:59:51 PM EST
Originally Posted By AR-10:
Originally Posted By cavscouty:

But Republicans complained the bill fails to hold bicyclists to the same standards as motorists. Senator Larry Noble, a Republican from Ankeny, is a retired state trooper. "In a motor vehicle, a person operating while intoxicated has their license suspended. What about bicyclists? In a motor vehicle, a driver must take a test to operate the motor vehicle. What about a bicyclists? In a motor vehicle, a person must show proof of insurance. What about a bicyclist?" Noble asked. "And I could go on and on."

Senator Brad Zaun, a Republican from Urbandale, said he and his 11-year-old son ride their bikes together nearly every night in the summer, but Zaun thinks the bill is silly. "What's next –– the motorcycle bill of rights? The snowmobiler's bill of rights? The runners' bill of rights? The golf carts' bill of rights?" Zaun asked. "I mean, how many of these bills are we going to do?"



I have no idea what you are trying to say, and I don't care to get into a purse swinging match. The parts of your post I highlighted in red are the only important parts of this news blurb.

I hope this ridiculous bill does not pass.
I'll be stepping out now.
My health is such that I am not interested in internet arguments.


Yeah, because Republicans are right about everything huh?
I'm an Independent, by the way, because I like to think for myself.
Link Posted: 9/6/2009 2:36:08 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/6/2009 2:38:43 AM EST by septic-tank13]
Originally Posted By cavscouty:
... because I like to think for myself.


for the love of sweet Christ... you're proving that you aren't 'thinking for yourself' by saying some of this stuff... you're posting when pissed off and it shows... if you were using reason and being honest, you'd comment to the "right to ride" stuff you keep as a premise, which is incorrect.

i don't like or want to adhere to this kind of regulation anymore than you. fundamentally i have taken the stance you have to pay to play. if i were to parallel that with my stance on guns, would i want the state of iowa to tell me whether i could carry while using the road? nope... not a true parallel but close... so i must ammend my notion here a bit.

i shouldn't be saying "i have to pay, so he has to pay" and instead we all should be saying "he doesn't pay, so we shouldn't pay".... now what do think? before you answer, consider that you'll be thrust into the same category as the rest of us while on the roadway whether you're driving an 80,000 pound tractor/trailer or a tricycle... when you get run over under that circumstance, you'll have ZERO recourse... as we're all on a level playing field. is that what you want?

Link Posted: 9/6/2009 9:22:21 AM EST
Roads are for cars. Riding a bike on a highway is stupid.
Link Posted: 9/6/2009 9:38:39 AM EST
Originally Posted By cavscouty:
Originally Posted By blackta6:
Originally Posted By cavscouty:
That's it, blame the dead guy, that I presume was following the law, and the sun. How did that work out for him?, just curious.
Driving is a privilege, riding a bike on a public road is a right.


Besides my friends fear of hitting another, the judges dismissed all citations and lawsuits brought forth. If by following the law you mean near the middle of the lane, than ok. The POI was between the passenger side headlight and center of vehicle. Guess maybe the earphones drowned out all that horrible honking and harrasment that others may have given him.

Oh, and thanks, for the heads up I will be making calls to voice my opposition to my elected officals and to let them know enough money has been wasted if people want to place themselves into harms way. Funny how you don't have a comment about the parking lots.


So now the guy was wearing headphones huh? Jesus dude, just stop. I don't care where the POI was, you and I both know cars don't always travel straight down the middle of their lane.

No, you just stop. The driver didn't see the bicyclist. The bicyclist was either a subscriber to your mentality that a bike has more of a right to be on a road than a car or didn't have the awareness to notice the large piece of metal coming towards him. You're trying to make it out like this biker saw the oncoming car, moved to the shoulder, and waited while the evil person who would dare to drive a car on a road gunned the engined and swerved to hit him.

The driver didn't see the bike. The bike didn't get out of the way. The bike lost. Also, it sure says a lot when the oblivious biker's family tries to take a high school kid for everything his parents are worth.

The only way to keep bike riders, who will be held to no standards, safe, is to keep them off highways and busy roads. You want to ride your bike? Avoid the fucking cars. They're bigger than you.
Link Posted: 9/6/2009 10:06:08 AM EST
Originally Posted By Spyw:
Originally Posted By cavscouty:
Originally Posted By blackta6:
Originally Posted By cavscouty:
That's it, blame the dead guy, that I presume was following the law, and the sun. How did that work out for him?, just curious.
Driving is a privilege, riding a bike on a public road is a right.


Besides my friends fear of hitting another, the judges dismissed all citations and lawsuits brought forth. If by following the law you mean near the middle of the lane, than ok. The POI was between the passenger side headlight and center of vehicle. Guess maybe the earphones drowned out all that horrible honking and harrasment that others may have given him.

Oh, and thanks, for the heads up I will be making calls to voice my opposition to my elected officals and to let them know enough money has been wasted if people want to place themselves into harms way. Funny how you don't have a comment about the parking lots.


So now the guy was wearing headphones huh? Jesus dude, just stop. I don't care where the POI was, you and I both know cars don't always travel straight down the middle of their lane.

No, you just stop. The driver didn't see the bicyclist. The bicyclist was either a subscriber to your mentality that a bike has more of a right to be on a road than a car or didn't have the awareness to notice the large piece of metal coming towards him. You're trying to make it out like this biker saw the oncoming car, moved to the shoulder, and waited while the evil person who would dare to drive a car on a road gunned the engined and swerved to hit him.

The driver didn't see the bike. The bike didn't get out of the way. The bike lost. Also, it sure says a lot when the oblivious biker's family tries to take a high school kid for everything his parents are worth.

The only way to keep bike riders, who will be held to no standards, safe, is to keep them off highways and busy roads. You want to ride your bike? Avoid the fucking cars. They're bigger than you.


I referred my lawyer to this thread. She said that you can take some satisfaction in the bikers death.

Look dude, I never said that a bike has more of a right of way on a pubic road, I think that they should SHARE it. I'm not trying to make your buddy that ran a biker over to look evil. I pointed out flaws in your arguement. What if your buddy had hit a fucking kid at a bus stop? Would the "sun" be at fault here too? Is this the guy you buddy killed? I'm guessing that your buddy was an inexperienced driver at the time, was he not?

October 2008, Douglas Kenny, 21, of West Burlington was killed as a driver hit him from the opposite direction. The driver claimed the sun was in his eyes, but witnesses said otherwise. The driver received a suspended 60-day jail sentence and probation, fined $2,000 and his driver's license was suspended for 360 days.
http://www.iowabicyclecoalition.org/node/52

In Ireland they have a lot of sheep. Cars hit sheep. Does that mean that sheep shouldn't be allowed on the road in Ireland?
Anywhere in the world where other things share the road with motorvechicles, shit happens.

I guess we will see what happens in the legislation right now concerning the "Biker's Bill of Rights". I pretty sure it will pass.
Link Posted: 9/6/2009 10:43:38 AM EST
Originally Posted By Spyw:
Originally Posted By cavscouty:
Originally Posted By blackta6:
Originally Posted By cavscouty:
That's it, blame the dead guy, that I presume was following the law, and the sun. How did that work out for him?, just curious.
Driving is a privilege, riding a bike on a public road is a right.


Besides my friends fear of hitting another, the judges dismissed all citations and lawsuits brought forth. If by following the law you mean near the middle of the lane, than ok. The POI was between the passenger side headlight and center of vehicle. Guess maybe the earphones drowned out all that horrible honking and harrasment that others may have given him.

Oh, and thanks, for the heads up I will be making calls to voice my opposition to my elected officals and to let them know enough money has been wasted if people want to place themselves into harms way. Funny how you don't have a comment about the parking lots.


So now the guy was wearing headphones huh? Jesus dude, just stop. I don't care where the POI was, you and I both know cars don't always travel straight down the middle of their lane.



The driver didn't see the bike.


If the driver can't see something in front of him on the road, he should not be driving a car. Kinda like one of the rules of weapon safety, "Don't point your weapon at anything you're not willing to destroy."

Link Posted: 9/6/2009 2:05:39 PM EST
Originally Posted By Bettendorf:
Originally Posted By Spyw:
Originally Posted By cavscouty:
Originally Posted By blackta6:
Originally Posted By cavscouty:
That's it, blame the dead guy, that I presume was following the law, and the sun. How did that work out for him?, just curious.
Driving is a privilege, riding a bike on a public road is a right.


Besides my friends fear of hitting another, the judges dismissed all citations and lawsuits brought forth. If by following the law you mean near the middle of the lane, than ok. The POI was between the passenger side headlight and center of vehicle. Guess maybe the earphones drowned out all that horrible honking and harrasment that others may have given him.

Oh, and thanks, for the heads up I will be making calls to voice my opposition to my elected officals and to let them know enough money has been wasted if people want to place themselves into harms way. Funny how you don't have a comment about the parking lots.


So now the guy was wearing headphones huh? Jesus dude, just stop. I don't care where the POI was, you and I both know cars don't always travel straight down the middle of their lane.



The driver didn't see the bike.


If the driver can't see something in front of him on the road, he should not be driving a car. Kinda like one of the rules of weapon safety, "Don't point your weapon at anything you're not willing to destroy."



Aside from it being nothing like that rule, are you really trying to assert that cars don't have blind spots?

For example, your damned rear-view-mirror creates a blind spot. If the conditions are right, that mirror can cover up other cars, so blocking your sight of a bicycle is no problem. You know how fast a car going highway speeds closes on some guy riding a bike? Pretty fucking fast. If your sight of a small bike is hindered at all, things aren't going to end well.

Furthermore, are you saying I shouldn't drive a car? Like I was saying earlier, I was driving down a road in the middle of the night when some asshole just appeared in front of my truck. Some grown ass adult riding his bike cut across the street right in front of me.
Link Posted: 9/6/2009 2:43:31 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/6/2009 2:56:39 PM EST by cavscouty]
Originally Posted By Spyw:
Originally Posted By Bettendorf:
Originally Posted By Spyw:

The driver didn't see the bike.


If the driver can't see something in front of him on the road, he should not be driving a car. Kinda like one of the rules of weapon safety, "Don't point your weapon at anything you're not willing to destroy."



Aside from it being nothing like that rule, are you really trying to assert that cars don't have blind spots?

For example, your damned rear-view-mirror creates a blind spot. If the conditions are right, that mirror can cover up other cars, so blocking your sight of a bicycle is no problem. You know how fast a car going highway speeds closes on some guy riding a bike? Pretty fucking fast. If your sight of a small bike is hindered at all, things aren't going to end well.

Furthermore, are you saying I shouldn't drive a car? Like I was saying earlier, I was driving down a road in the middle of the night when some asshole just appeared in front of my truck. Some grown ass adult riding his bike cut across the street right in front of me.


I don't think you get it spyw, and you are getting off track. What bettendorf was impying is that the friend of blackta6, couldn't see the bike rider that he killed because of the sun. Hence, he shouldn't have been driving at the time.
If you can't see in front of you, consider pulling over. I don't think that the fact that cars have blind spots has anything at all to do with a car mowing down a bike rider that was obviously in front of him.

Just get it. Please, just get it.

edited for spelling.
Link Posted: 9/6/2009 2:55:13 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/6/2009 2:57:02 PM EST by Bettendorf]
Originally Posted By Spyw:
Originally Posted By Bettendorf:
Originally Posted By Spyw:
Originally Posted By cavscouty:
Originally Posted By blackta6:
Originally Posted By cavscouty:
That's it, blame the dead guy, that I presume was following the law, and the sun. How did that work out for him?, just curious.
Driving is a privilege, riding a bike on a public road is a right.


Besides my friends fear of hitting another, the judges dismissed all citations and lawsuits brought forth. If by following the law you mean near the middle of the lane, than ok. The POI was between the passenger side headlight and center of vehicle. Guess maybe the earphones drowned out all that horrible honking and harrasment that others may have given him.

Oh, and thanks, for the heads up I will be making calls to voice my opposition to my elected officals and to let them know enough money has been wasted if people want to place themselves into harms way. Funny how you don't have a comment about the parking lots.


So now the guy was wearing headphones huh? Jesus dude, just stop. I don't care where the POI was, you and I both know cars don't always travel straight down the middle of their lane.



The driver didn't see the bike.


If the driver can't see something in front of him on the road, he should not be driving a car. Kinda like one of the rules of weapon safety, "Don't point your weapon at anything you're not willing to destroy."



Aside from it being nothing like that rule, are you really trying to assert that cars don't have blind spots?

.

I will say it agian. If you can't see what's in front of you, maybe you shouldn't be driving. Get it? There is nowhere in front of a car that a bike and his rider can be hide or be in a "Blind-Spot". Besides, you can turn your head can't you to "clear" "blind-Spots"? "Blind spots" are something made up by fucking idiots who didn't turn their heads and look and crashed into something or someone. Read Cavscouty's post to understand what I already posted. I'm getting tired of repeating myself to you.

Link Posted: 9/6/2009 4:16:38 PM EST
Originally Posted By blindman45:
i took a trip to waterloo yesterday and almost hit 3 of them bikers. one just random swerved as i was passing him. one was a retard crossing the highway when i was right there, and it was dark and he had no lights on so i didnt see him til he was 4 feet away from me.


OK, I don't really care about the overall argument here one way or another. While some of the arguments seem to be a response to moving blame around for lack of attention when operating a motor vehicle, the pay to travel on a roadway seems to fit too. Hell, I have to pay to license my canoe that has absolutely no impact on the waterways it is used on, which only leads me to the conclusion that government regulation sucks no matter how you justify it.

The main reason I have finally been drawn into posting in this thread is the fact that you didn't see the cyclist until he was four feet away from you, combined with the fact that your forum handle is blindman45.

That is all. Carry on. Some of you may want to consider valium. After all, this is the internet.

Also, it is still my firm belief that the kid living next to Septic should be carrying.
Link Posted: 9/6/2009 7:35:58 PM EST
Originally Posted By yammerschooner:
Originally Posted By blindman45:
i took a trip to waterloo yesterday and almost hit 3 of them bikers. one just random swerved as i was passing him. one was a retard crossing the highway when i was right there, and it was dark and he had no lights on so i didnt see him til he was 4 feet away from me.


OK, I don't really care about the overall argument here one way or another. While some of the arguments seem to be a response to moving blame around for lack of attention when operating a motor vehicle, the pay to travel on a roadway seems to fit too. Hell, I have to pay to license my canoe that has absolutely no impact on the waterways it is used on, which only leads me to the conclusion that government regulation sucks no matter how you justify it.

The main reason I have finally been drawn into posting in this thread is the fact that you didn't see the cyclist until he was four feet away from you, combined with the fact that your forum handle is blindman45.

That is all. Carry on. Some of you may want to consider valium. After all, this is the internet.

Also, it is still my firm belief that the kid living next to Septic should be carrying.

LOL. Great post.
Link Posted: 9/7/2009 3:36:00 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/7/2009 3:36:17 AM EST by septic-tank13]
Originally Posted By yammerschooner:
Also, it is still my firm belief that the kid living next to Septic should be carrying.


he is. i know because i sold him the gun...
Link Posted: 9/7/2009 3:41:42 AM EST
Originally Posted By cavscouty:
IIn Ireland they have a lot of sheep. Cars hit sheep. Does that mean that sheep shouldn't be allowed on the road in Ireland?
Anywhere in the world where other things share the road with motorvechicles, shit happens.


our cabin in colorado has roads all around it that are open range scenarios... cattle travel them all day and night. what the hell does that have to do with anything? are you advocating that cattle, or sheep in your case, use the roadway as a means of aware travel? the suggestion of valium above is apparently is a good idea... LOL...

also, when a car hits a sheep, the sheep don't respond by bawling and creating a "sheep bill of rights" as it were...

you're a good shit jack, but you have to concede some of what you're saying is poor conceived and poorly stated...

Link Posted: 9/7/2009 7:39:15 AM EST
Originally Posted By septic-tank13:
Originally Posted By cavscouty:
IIn Ireland they have a lot of sheep. Cars hit sheep. Does that mean that sheep shouldn't be allowed on the road in Ireland?
Anywhere in the world where other things share the road with motorvechicles, shit happens.


our cabin in colorado has roads all around it that are open range scenarios... cattle travel them all day and night. what the hell does that have to do with anything? are you advocating that cattle, or sheep in your case, use the roadway as a means of aware travel? the suggestion of valium above is apparently is a good idea... LOL...

also, when a car hits a sheep, the sheep don't respond by bawling and creating a "sheep bill of rights" as it were...

you're a good shit jack, but you have to concede some of what you're saying is poor conceived and poorly stated...




Link Posted: 9/7/2009 7:47:48 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/7/2009 7:49:09 AM EST by Strongarm66]
Originally Posted By cavscouty:
The bill now goes to the House, where it faces an uncertain future. If the bill does become law, it would prohibit someone from opening a car door into bicycle traffic and it would give bicyclists the right of way when a bike trail intersects with a street.


You've got to be fucking shitting me! If this passes, they will need more than 8-10 body bags annually.



Link Posted: 9/7/2009 10:57:24 AM EST
Originally Posted By Strongarm66:
Originally Posted By cavscouty:
The bill now goes to the House, where it faces an uncertain future. If the bill does become law, it would prohibit someone from opening a car door into bicycle traffic and it would give bicyclists the right of way when a bike trail intersects with a street.


You've got to be fucking shitting me! If this passes, they will need more than 8-10 body bags annually.





no shit... it takes muscle power to start and stop a bike... it takes dead dinosaurs to start and stop vehicles... you suppose the tree hugging libs have really thought this through? you burn between 8 and 13 times more fuel to attain speed than to remain at speed in most on highway vehicles... that is just stupid. putting an inconvenience to the millions of cars who use them in pleasure, official, or work capacities for a handful of bicyclers who will essentially be trained to intermittenly stop at intersections... anybody else see how this is not only stupid but extremely unsafe?

Link Posted: 9/7/2009 12:17:09 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/7/2009 12:17:44 PM EST by BobRoberts]
Originally Posted By septic-tank13:
Originally Posted By Strongarm66:
Originally Posted By cavscouty:
The bill now goes to the House, where it faces an uncertain future. If the bill does become law, it would prohibit someone from opening a car door into bicycle traffic and it would give bicyclists the right of way when a bike trail intersects with a street.


You've got to be fucking shitting me! If this passes, they will need more than 8-10 body bags annually.





no shit... it takes muscle power to start and stop a bike... it takes dead dinosaurs to start and stop vehicles... you suppose the tree hugging libs have really thought this through? you burn between 8 and 13 times more fuel to attain speed than to remain at speed in most on highway vehicles... that is just stupid. putting an inconvenience to the millions of cars who use them in pleasure, official, or work capacities for a handful of bicyclers who will essentially be trained to intermittenly stop at intersections... anybody else see how this is not only stupid but extremely unsafe?



especially when it is much easier for a biker to see a a mv than the other way around. The biker, if mistaken can easily stop and avoid a accident, but if reversed someone is dead. What happens when a bike path intersects a 45-55 mph highway, your really going to make hundreds of vehicles slow down and stop for the convenience of a handful of bikers.
Link Posted: 9/7/2009 1:21:40 PM EST
Originally Posted By BobRoberts:

... your really going to make hundreds of vehicles slow down and stop for the convenience of a handful of bikers.


apparently it is their RIGHT to be dipshits... when you through logic out the window, it seems this may actually be a problem solved...

fuck....



Link Posted: 9/7/2009 6:15:48 PM EST
Originally Posted By Strongarm66:
Originally Posted By cavscouty:
The bill now goes to the House, where it faces an uncertain future. If the bill does become law, it would prohibit someone from opening a car door into bicycle traffic and it would give bicyclists the right of way when a bike trail intersects with a street.


You've got to be fucking shitting me! If this passes, they will need more than 8-10 body bags annually.






I see you've worked roadways for RAGBRAI also. Hell, I could barely get cars to stop for a group of 50 bikes let alone 1.
Link Posted: 9/7/2009 11:34:34 PM EST
Originally Posted By septic-tank13:
Originally Posted By Strongarm66:
Originally Posted By cavscouty:
The bill now goes to the House, where it faces an uncertain future. If the bill does become law, it would prohibit someone from opening a car door into bicycle traffic and it would give bicyclists the right of way when a bike trail intersects with a street.


You've got to be fucking shitting me! If this passes, they will need more than 8-10 body bags annually.





no shit... it takes muscle power to start and stop a bike... it takes dead dinosaurs to start and stop vehicles... you suppose the tree hugging libs have really thought this through? you burn between 8 and 13 times more fuel to attain speed than to remain at speed in most on highway vehicles... that is just stupid. putting an inconvenience to the millions of cars who use them in pleasure, official, or work capacities for a handful of bicyclers who will essentially be trained to intermittenly stop at intersections... anybody else see how this is not only stupid but extremely unsafe?



What goes through a deer's head before being hit by a car:
I want to eat grass and do other deer shit. What the hell? Why'd the ground get hard and gray? Where the hell did this come from? Wait, what the fuck is that bright, shiny thing in the distance? I better stick around to find out what that is...*splat*

What goes through a biker's head before being hit by a car:
Ah yes, here we go, a road. I can finally get off this bike trail. Wait, is that a car's headlights coming towards me? Doesn't that piece of shit motor vehicle operator know this is a road? What the hell is he doing driving a car on a road? Doesn't that jackass know I have a right to be here and he doesn't because I'm riding a bike and he's driving a car? I better dismount my bike and hold up the statement my lawyer signed for me saying how hard we'll sue any asshole driver that comes within 3 feet of me. That fucker still isn't stopping. Maybe if I glare at him menacingly...*splat*

...I think the deer's smarter
Link Posted: 9/8/2009 5:26:09 AM EST

Winterset, IA

Truck Impounded Thursday Night

Piece by piece, investigators are putting a case together to solve the deadly hit-and-run that killed a cyclist on a Warren County road. Mark Grgurich, of Des Moines, was the cyclist killed in the collision.

First there was a logo, then a photo. Thursday night, a truck was discovered.

Investigators with the Warren County Sheriff's office would not comment except to say it could be a week before charges are filed.

Police believe they have found the truck they've been looking for all week. In their search Thursday, Warren County released the picture of a vehicle taken from a surveillance tape. Brian Maxwell of Winterset saw it and called police.

"When they posted the picture, it hit me like a ton of bricks. I knew that vehicle," said Maxwell.

Maxwell said there is only one white 1986 pickup with distinctive stickers and a plastic Chevy sign on the front. He said it matches the piece of signage with the letters 'H' and 'E' found at the hit-and-run site.

The Warren County Sherriff's Deputy said after putting out the picture of the truck they had at least 60 tips that lead them to a house.

Beverly Smith, who lives across the street, was shocked to see police there.

"They were here quite awhile. From 4:00 until after dark," said Smith.

That's when they towed the truck to a garage. Authorities said they will continue to analyze it for evidence before the appropriate charges will be filed.

Anyone with information about this case is asked to call the Warren County Sheriff or Polk County Crime Stoppers.

http://www.bikeiowa.com/asp/hotnews/newsdisplay.asp?NewsID=4098


I'm going to go out on a limb here and predict criminal charges.
Link Posted: 9/8/2009 7:58:59 AM EST
It sounds like they are close to catching him. Anyone who would hit a biker and leave them to die, regardless of how much the biker was at fault, should rot in prison.
Link Posted: 9/14/2009 6:45:34 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/14/2009 6:46:21 AM EST by cavscouty]
Looks like they got him.


SARA SLEYSTER • Indianola Record-Herald • September 14, 2009

A 79-year-old Winterset man was charged this morning in the Aug. 30 hit-and run death of bicyclist Mark Grgurich in Warren County.

Paul “Jud” McKinney, 79, is charged with leaving the scene of a fatality, concealment of evidence and failure to maintain control.

If convicted of all charges he faces more than seven years in prison.

McKinney's arraignment is set for Sept. 22.

Judge Kevin Park set his bail at $10,000 cash.

McKinney’s attorney asked that he be released because of an ailing wife, poor health and is a longtime resident of Madison County.

McKinney worked 30 years as a truck foreman for the Madison County road department. His wife, Betty, was recently moved to a nursing home.

DesMoines Register.com will report details as they develop.

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