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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 8/7/2005 7:21:00 AM EDT
Bought a 1:7 barrel to replace the 1:9 on my Stag/CMT flat top. I bought the action block and barrel wrench from BravoCompany and I'm using a heavy duty vise. Gas tube removed easily. I've tried freezing the assembly, and I've tried heating the barrel nut with a heat gun. No joy. I've put a 2 1/2 ft breaker bar on the wrench and still it refuses to move. Barrel nut is still in good shape as in not rounded off.

85 ft/lbs is not a great deal of torque and shouldnt take 200 + ft/lbs to break it. Any suggestions?
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 7:37:08 AM EDT
Lefty loosey, Righty tighty?

Take a propane torch and heat the area of the upper behind the barrel nut, you need to heat the upper and a heat gun will not do it. Tried it and it is just not enough since you need to exspand the metal to release the parts, make sure you use a action lube when the new barrel goes on.

Where at in Virginia?
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 7:42:42 AM EDT
Arlington.

I placed the action block/upper in the vice with the muzzle to the right and barrel nut/upper on my left (as shown in the AR15 barrel swap pics). Placed barrel wrench on the nut and pulled down/counter clockwise. Would that be correct?
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 8:37:56 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/7/2005 8:52:47 AM EDT by Fenian]

Originally Posted By NevisRuprecht:
Arlington.

I placed the action block/upper in the vice with the muzzle to the right and barrel nut/upper on my left (as shown in the AR15 barrel swap pics). Placed barrel wrench on the nut and pulled down/counter clockwise. Would that be correct?



that should be right...sometimes these things can be a BITCH. My Armalite was like that.

Do you have any Kroil? let that sit on there for about 30 minutes. Do you have another set of hands to help?

I had to sit on the bench and throw a hand on the wrench to help my VERY large friend pull before we *finally* broke it loose.

Now you know why I *never* get a torque wrench near any of my rifles.

Worst case scenario you could just cut the barrel nut with a dremel...taking EXTREME caution not to mess up the receiver. I've never tried this, but you should be able to cut it enough to weaken it, and then break it with a big screwdriver blade. I got a spare barrel nut if you want to go that route if all else fails.

I'm in Arlington...if you need and help, give me a holler.
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 10:57:28 AM EDT
long-rifle-tactical and Fenian,

Thanks for the replies.

Fenian,

Thanks for the offer. I'm going to see if my determination can outlast the stubbornness of this barrel nut. And still have the barrel nut survive the procedure.

When (IF?) I get this barrel off I'll install the new one without the torque wrench!

Question:

Is using antiseize on the receiver threads OK. I've heard people recommend it instead of bearing grease.

Nevis

Link Posted: 8/7/2005 11:09:39 AM EDT
Just did a swap yesterday that required wacking the wrench with a sledge while a buddy pushed in onto the nut. Give it some whacks with a hammer or something. This is obviously easier with a buddy (unless you have 3 hands like some of those people from the mountains of Virginia ).

Have any plans for your old barrel? I just sold my last spare one yesterday and am in need of another.

Black Fox
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 11:24:40 AM EDT

Originally Posted By BlackFox:
Just did a swap yesterday that required wacking the wrench with a sledge while a buddy pushed in onto the nut. Give it some whacks with a hammer or something. This is obviously easier with a buddy (unless you have 3 hands like some of those people from the mountains of Virginia ).

Have any plans for your old barrel? I just sold my last spare one yesterday and am in need of another.

Black Fox



My pumpkin headed cousin lives in florida so he can't help.

As far as the barrel goes make an offer. F marked FSB, 16" 1-9 chrome M4 style w A2 flash and GT.

I'm just like everyone else on this site I just can't leave well enough alone. My spare parts box is soon to become a spare parts trunk.
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 2:30:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/7/2005 2:31:44 PM EDT by long-rifle-tactical]
Brownells action lube is the best I have found to lube the threads and the barrel extension on a build, I have some and a little goes miles.

Also have a new can of Kroil, before beating it try the Kroil.

Set your upper barrel up and spray some into the threads and let it set for a day, then turn it barrel down on a rag and I use a tinl foil pan and spray the barrel extension from inside as well and wait another day. 90% of the time it will come free or it could be like on I had that needed heat.

I live in Haymarket so if you want to have me take a look at it then that is no problem.

Edited fer mah turd ands shpelling.
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 4:16:40 PM EDT
Thanks for the advice. I might as well invest in some Kroil before I do damage to the barrel nut.

Nevis
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 8:16:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BlackFox:
Just did a swap yesterday that required wacking the wrench with a sledge while a buddy pushed in onto the nut. Give it some whacks with a hammer or something. This is obviously easier with a buddy (unless you have 3 hands like some of those people from the mountains of Virginia ).

Have any plans for your old barrel? I just sold my last spare one yesterday and am in need of another.

Black Fox



I got an extra 20" Oly SUM barrel...IM or email me if'n you're interested.
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 5:29:04 AM EDT
Suggestions as above, but in logical order with refinements:
Eye protection is required.

1) First, place barrel/upper receiver assembly in a vise with the muzzle down.
This will allow the penetrating oil (Kroil IS best) to seep between the female threads of the nut and the male thread of the upper receiver.

2) Gently and evenly heat the barrel nut only with a tightly focused propane torch flame.
The female nut threads OVER the male upper receiver, so heating the nut _only_ has the effect of lifting the female thread off the male thread, creating clearance. Heating the receiver/thread tightens the fit.

3) Remove the flame and pour a generous amount of Kroil on the junction of the barrel nut and upper receiver thread.
Amount of oil should be sufficient to thoroughly soak the area.

4) Take a break, at least about an hour or so.
The oil needs time to work. Heating of the female thread causes expansion and creates clearance. Assisted by gravity, as the joint cools, it will draw oil down into the joint.

5) Now, turn the barrel/upper receiver assembly sideways in the vise, as you had it, so that you can push down to loosen. If you are not a real big guy, you may be able to lift harder than you can push down. . .

6) Use the propane torch again to gently and evenly heat the barrel nut until the oil just starts to smoke a little. Remove the flame.

7) Apply your barrel wrench to the nut and try to loosen it.
The best chances of it breaking loose are when the nut is still warm and wet with hot oil and has soaked awhile.
It might go now, if not, then:

8) Reheat the nut and use a light hammer to gently tap the wrench against the nut as you try to loosen.
Gently tapping the wrench against the nut has the effect of momentarily relieving pressure on the threads and will often allow loosening of a tight thread.
It might go now, if not, then:

9) If it still didn't go, try tapping the wrench handle with a hammer as you apply pressure.

10) It it's STILL stuck, place the barrel/receiver assembly vertically in the vise again, heat the nut, soak with oil and let it cool awhile..

11) While the assembly cools, get your buddy and cheater bar and repeat steps 6 -8.


For reassembly, moly grease is recommended. There is a risk of electrolysis causing damage to the upper receiver thread under certain circumstances. One such circumstance is when graphite is present in the grease, it will cause a galvanic reaction between the steel nut, alumnium receiver and the graphite itself, and the receiver loses.

IMHO, a torque wrench should be use to reach minimum recommended torque, then the nut snugged only enough to align the gas tube opening.
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 1:39:56 PM EDT
eshell

Thanks man.

Nevis
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 3:44:44 PM EDT
Prior to using a torch or heat near Kroil, here is the MSDS tecnical information from Kanolabs.

MATERIAL SAFETY DATA SHEET

SECTION I



Product Name or Number (as it appears on label): Aerokroil

Manufacturers Name: Kano Laboratories, Inc.

Address: 1000 S. Thompson Lane, Nashville, TN 37211-2627

Emergency Telephone No: 800-424-9300 (Chemtrec)

Manufacturer's DUNS No: N/A

Proper Shipping Name, Hazard Class, Hazard ID No., Label Required (49 CFR 172.101): Consumer Commodity, ORM-D, N/A, (Air) ORM-D-AIR, (Surface) ORM-D

Additional Hazard Classes (as applicable): N/A

Chemical Family: Petroleum Lubricant

Formula: Proprietary

SECTION II – INGREDIENTS



CAS REGISTRY %W CHEMICAL NAME(S) OHSA/ACGIH LISTED AS A

NO. PEL/TLV CARCINOGEN IN

PPM NTP, IARC OR

OSHA 1910 (z)

(Specify)

64742-46-7 30%- 50% Petroleum Base Oil 5.0 mg/m3 TWA No

78-92-2 1% - 10% Hydrocarbon Solvent 50 TWA No

64742-95-6 1% - 10% Petroleum Solvent 50 TWA No

111-76-2 1% - 10% Aliphatic Hydrocarbon Solvent 50 TWA No

1% - 20% Non-Hazardous Proprietary Mixture - No

64742-47-8 20%-40% Petroleum Naphtha 100 TWA No

123-42-2 1% - 10% Hydrocarbon Solvent 75 STEL No

115-10-6 1% - 15% Dymel A (Propellant) 1000 TWA No

All ingredients in Kroil are listed in the TOSCA inventory list



SECTION III - PHYSICAL DATA



Boiling Point: 250 degrees F. Specific Gravity (H2) = 1): .88 NFPA 704 DESIGNATION

Vapor Pressure Percent Volatile by Volume (%): 60

Flammability - 2

Vapor Density (AIR-1): N/A Evaporation Rate (-1): But.Acet. less than 1 Health - 1

Solubility in Water: NIL pH: 6.0 - 7.0 Reactivity - 0

Percent Solid By Weight (%): O Material is: Liquid Special Hazard -

Appearance & Odor: Liquid, slight reddish color, pleasant odor



SECTION IV - FIRE AND EXPLOSION HAZARD DATA



Flash Point: N/A Not Applicable to Aerosols -

Flammable Limits: LFL - N/A UFL - N/A

Extinguishing Media: CO2, Dry Chemical, Foam

Special Fire Fighting Procedures: Usual procedure for solvents. Treat as combustible. Do not use water.

Unusual Fire & Explosion Hazards: Never use welding or cutting torch on or near cans or drums. Do not mix or store with strong oxidants. Store at room temperature.







SECTION V - HEALTH HAZARD DATA



Symptoms & Effects of Overexposure: EYE - burning & irritation. SKIN-dryness. Prolonged exposure may cause dermatitis. INHALATION may cause headache, dizziness, anesthesia, nausea, & upper respiratory irritation. INGESTION may cause lung irritation, nausea, vomiting & diarrhea. Harmful or fatal if swallowed. Primary Routes of Entry: InhalationEmergency and First Aid Procedures: EYE- Immediately flush with large amounts of water for 15 minutes. SKIN-wash with mild soap and water, apply skin cream. INHALATION- remove to fresh air. If breathing is difficult administer oxygen, if breathing stops give artificial respiration. Get medical attention. INGESTION- Contains hydrocarbon solvents and petroleum oil. Do not induce vomiting, call physician immediately. Minute amounts aspirated into lungs during ingestion may cause severe pulmonary damage. Do not administer epinephrine or adrenaline.




SECTION VI - REACTIVITY DATA

Stability: Stable Conditions To Avoid: Heat, Sparks, Open Flame. Strong Oxidants.

Incompatibility (materials to avoid): Strong Oxidizing Agents.

Hazardous Decomposition Products: Thermal decomposition in the presence of air may yield carbon monoxide and/or carbon dioxide.

Hazardous Polymerization: Will not occur Conditions To Avoid: NA



SECTION VII - SPILL OR LEAK PROCEDURES

Steps To Be Taken In Case Material Is Released or Spilled: Wipe up immediately with absorbent rags, sweeping compound or other absorbent material. Remove or extinguish all flames and sparks. Do not flush into sewer. Waste Disposal Method: Bury saturated absorbent in approved landfill. Dispose ofcombustible fuel in accordance with local, state and federal regulations. Cercla (Superfund) Reportable Quantity (in lbs): NA RCRA Hazardous Waste No. (40 CFR 261.33): NA Volatile Organic Compound (VOC) (as packaged, minus water): NA Theoretical: 7.8 lb/gal Analytical: 7.8 lb/gal,l



SECTION VIII - SPECIAL PROTECTION INFORMATION

Respiratory Protection (specify type): NOISH approved respirator for vapors if desired.

Ventilation - Local Exhaust (specify rate): Normal Local Exhaust System. Special: None required. Ventilation - Mechanical (General) (Specify Rate): Normal Ventilation is sufficient. Other: None Required. Protective Gloves: Chemically resistant gloves if needed to protect skin. Eye Protection: If splash potential exists, wear chemical splash goggles. Other Protective Equipment: None needed.



SECTION IX - SPECIAL PRECAUTIONS

Precautions To Be Taken In Handling and Storing: Keep away from excessive heat, sparks and open flame. Do not take internally. Do not leave container open. Store in cool area. Other Precautions: Use with proper ventilation. Wearing contact lenses is not advisable. If swallowed can enter lungs and may cause chemical pneumonitis. Do not administer epinephrine or adrenaline. Keep away from children and animals. Do not puncture containers.



The above information is based on information available at this time and is believed to be accurate. However, the data is provided without warranty, expressed or implied. It is the user's responsibility to determine safe conditions for use of this product. We expressly disclaim all liability for reliance thereon, and assume no liability with any use of this information.

Title: Chairman Name (print): P. R. Zimmerman

Date: March 7, 2005 Signature: P. R. Zimmerman





Revision 00033001

Link Posted: 8/8/2005 4:45:33 PM EDT
If you have to sacrifice your Delta ring, weld spring and snap ring and Dremel them off to make the wrench fit more easily on the barrel nut. I'll give you all three parts free (used) but in really good shape. Come see me at Shooters Paradise on Saturday if you need them.

BTW if you're right handed and standing on the the receiver end up the upper (ejection port side) while it's in the vise you should be pushing the barrel wrench down to loosen.

If you need help definately take up the help from Long-Rifle-Tactical. He's got the vise from hell and it mounts to his class III/IV hitch on his Dodge 3/4 ton truck.
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 5:18:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By gotm4:
If you have to sacrifice your Delta ring, weld spring and snap ring and Dremel them off to make the wrench fit more easily on the barrel nut. I'll give you all three parts free (used) but in really good shape. Come see me at Shooters Paradise on Saturday if you need them.

BTW if you're right handed and standing on the the receiver end up the upper (ejection port side) while it's in the vise you should be pushing the barrel wrench down to loosen.

If you need help definately take up the help from Long-Rifle-Tactical. He's got the vise from hell and it mounts to his class III/IV hitch on his Dodge 3/4 ton truck.



Thanks gotm4,

So far I haven't ruined anything. So far. I work at it for awhile then leave it alone for awhile. Having a vise that is securely attached to the work bench would be nice! Heavyduty vise/low rent work bench. Put my weight into it and boards start popping.

I could just buy another upper to put the new barrel on but then what fun would that be? It seems that you guys have had these sturbborn barrels yourselves and I appreciate all the advice and offers of help.

This would be the only time (ever) I wished the 100lb wife weighed 300lbs.

I've tried freezing it so the next step is to try some penetrating oil (no torch) and then a torch (no oil). If no dice then I'll have to send out a mayday.

Nevis
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 8:17:28 PM EDT
The problem with a torch is that the aluminum receiver will expand much faster than the steel nut so you'll actually be making it tighter if you only use a torch. The only time I've had a really tight nut to remove I eventually got it by using a torch on the nut while keeping the receiver in an ice bath.

What a torch will do for you is soften up any loctite or similar crap that may have been used.
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