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Posted: 10/21/2013 11:18:13 AM EDT
Press release

another EU press release

Apparently the EU wishes to reduce gun crime by reducing the number of legally owned guns in Europe.
Link Posted: 10/21/2013 7:10:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/21/2013 7:13:50 PM EDT by iggy1337]
Originally Posted By swerdeofwar:
Press release

another EU press release

Apparently the EU wishes to reduce gun crime by reducing the number of legally owned guns in Europe.
View Quote


Yep got this this afternoon but was away and unable to post. Stupid retarded crap for sure, even more stupid is the EU expert group from the Netherlands only is made up up of police and only the police that are anti gun (they want a complete EU wide TOTAL ban on toy guns).

This little gem

"As a second step, the Commission will weigh at a technical level the value of certain types of
firearms currently permitted for civilian use, like semi-automatic weapons, against the
security risks, and consider whether it would be more appropriate to further restrict access to
these weapons."

And they are thinking about trying one of the stupidist and unworkable scemes gun policy ever namely the old ammo registration, best of all is the last peice of logic.

Given that a firearm can only inflict harm
with ammunition, the Commission will examine
ways of preventing acquisition and misuse of
ammunition by criminals, for example through
marking and imposing limits on the maximum size of ammunition magazines for lawful civilian-type weapons.
Link Posted: 10/22/2013 2:21:59 PM EDT
I've discussed this with a friend of mine who's an MEP. He will fight it. I've also written to several others.

I suggest that everyone write their MEPs about this.
Link Posted: 10/22/2013 2:33:14 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/22/2013 7:36:34 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By toemag:
BTW. MEP's are like other politicians, they will go with the flow that their party whips want them to... While promising you whatever it is that you want..

Tony
View Quote


They can be influenced, especially when the party doesn't have a policy on the subject.
Link Posted: 10/23/2013 3:17:44 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By swede1986:


They can be influenced, especially when the party doesn't have a policy on the subject.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By swede1986:
Originally Posted By toemag:
BTW. MEP's are like other politicians, they will go with the flow that their party whips want them to... While promising you whatever it is that you want..

Tony


They can be influenced, especially when the party doesn't have a policy on the subject.


According to our polls the Austrian right wing Freedom Party, which is pro-gun, is poised to get the largest share of the vote in the next EU elections.
They may be socialist but at least they are pro-gun socialists with a lot of cadre being members of our IWÖ (Interessengemeinschaft Liberales Waffenrecht Österreich)...
Link Posted: 10/24/2013 3:19:36 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/24/2013 3:32:00 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/24/2013 3:51:29 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/24/2013 9:24:56 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/25/2013 9:08:43 AM EDT
So what you're saying is that we should just give up?

Great plan!
Link Posted: 10/25/2013 9:50:48 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/26/2013 4:15:30 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 8:25:19 PM EDT
So anyway the Eu can not interfere directly in a countries criminal law without the country in question being able to stop it.

For so far as is relevant to this case art 87 TFEU states:


1. The European Parliament and the Council may, by means of directives adopted in accordance
with the ordinary legislative procedure, establish minimum rules concerning the definition of criminal
offences and sanctions in the areas of particularly serious crime with a cross-border dimension
resulting from the nature or impact of such offences or from a special need to combat them on a
common basis.

.................

Where a member of the Council considers that a draft directive as referred to in paragraph 1 or
2 would affect fundamental aspects of its criminal justice system, it may request that the draft directive
be referred to the European Council..


So there you government can save you and there nothing to worry about I am also a Nigerian prince who has recently acquired a large fortune and I am seeking a trustworthy gun owner to help in getting my funds out of Nigeria.

Also it is established case law ( C-387/02, C-391/02, C-403/02) that EU Directives cannot have direct negative [penalising] effects without transposition into national law.

Here again your home state could protect you, so no worries there. To obtain my Nigerian fortune and pay you amount of 1 billion Euros helping fee I require a shall payment to be made into my bank account.

This type of stuff isn't really new to me as the Tony Blair junta used to push 'toy gun' bans, 'knife bans', 'blank gun bans' and almost every other conceivable ban ALL THE FUCKING TIME.

Point being this is being pushed by a Swede*1 a country that I consider to be radically anti gun (along with my country and the UK). We might luck out in the sense that there will be resistance from a lot of countries who don't appreciate the meddling in the national criminal justice systems. Though they will all hate guns the aspect concerning the competence to intervene in the national criminal justice systems is a hot potato since the Treaty of Lisbon and a lot of countries are keen to mark their boundaries.







*1 Ok EU commissioners don't represent the interests of their respective countries but if you believe that I've got yet another Nigerian fortune for you.
Link Posted: 10/29/2013 3:24:21 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/29/2013 7:57:59 PM EDT
Thing is Tony it's sad that I fully realise the normal rules and standards won't apply when it comes banning gun stuff.


Recent example here in the Netherlands (bit boring technical crap but it shows a point):

We had the marking directive whereby in short (new) firearms that are placed on the EU market must be marked and in a certain way, retroactive marking of gun already on the market was expressly NOT required.

Dutch version of Sir Humphrey (from Yes Minister) being unelected and not read up on ANY studies of firearms policy simply decides he wants all guns marked, because well fuck you serf.

Now here comes the separate side EU issue and that's something us lawyer types call 'Gold Plating'. 'Golf Plating' is in short piggy backing stricter national rules on EU directives and regulations etc. Now the EU gets a lot of bad rep from this and has made combating the national practice of gold plating a top priority because it gives the EU a lot of bad press Wiki Here

Ok so now we have a government bureaucrat wanting to gold plate the living fuck out of a EU directive and we have the EU that had declared that combating gold plating will be a top priority, what could go wrong ?

If you guessed the EU response was 'Fuck you because we don't care about guns' you would be correct.

That why I listed the case law, it is well established but will somehow be declared not applicable or something in the case of guns.

As gun lovers we are most hated minority in the EU and nobody cares as they are to busy (well here at least) giving free Multi million euro mansions to Roma families in the hope they will stop stealing crap.
Link Posted: 10/29/2013 8:56:35 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By iggy1337:

Point being this is being pushed by a Swede*1 a country that I consider to be radically anti gun (along with my country and the UK). We might luck out in the sense that there will be resistance from a lot of countries who don't appreciate the meddling in the national criminal justice systems. Though they will all hate guns the aspect concerning the competence to intervene in the national criminal justice systems is a hot potato since the Treaty of Lisbon and a lot of countries are keen to mark their boundaries.







*1 Ok EU commissioners don't represent the interests of their respective countries but if you believe that I've got yet another Nigerian fortune for you.
View Quote


No offense, but Sweden isn't even in the same league as your country, or the UK. Our laws are far from perfect, but gun ownership is far more accepted here. Your country has less firearms per capita than countries like India and China.

Nor does Malmström represent all of the Swedish government. She represents Folkpartiet, which is a small party, and she's being fought by MEPs from the much larger Moderate Party.
Link Posted: 10/30/2013 10:14:40 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By swede1986:


No offense, but Sweden isn't even in the same league as your country, or the UK. Our laws are far from perfect, but gun ownership is far more accepted here. Your country has less firearms per capita than countries like India and China.

Nor does Malmström represent all of the Swedish government. She represents Folkpartiet, which is a small party, and she's being fought by MEPs from the much larger Moderate Party.
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Originally Posted By swede1986:
Originally Posted By iggy1337:

Point being this is being pushed by a Swede*1 a country that I consider to be radically anti gun (along with my country and the UK). We might luck out in the sense that there will be resistance from a lot of countries who don't appreciate the meddling in the national criminal justice systems. Though they will all hate guns the aspect concerning the competence to intervene in the national criminal justice systems is a hot potato since the Treaty of Lisbon and a lot of countries are keen to mark their boundaries.







*1 Ok EU commissioners don't represent the interests of their respective countries but if you believe that I've got yet another Nigerian fortune for you.


No offense, but Sweden isn't even in the same league as your country, or the UK. Our laws are far from perfect, but gun ownership is far more accepted here. Your country has less firearms per capita than countries like India and China.

Nor does Malmström represent all of the Swedish government. She represents Folkpartiet, which is a small party, and she's being fought by MEPs from the much larger Moderate Party.


Have no doubt swede I fully guarantee my country is one of the worst places to own a gun on the planet. Currently I don't even have a gun license because I cant make the training and active competition requirements (young family, local range closed down).

If I start up again I will have to start with .22 Olympic (3 years) weapons even though I've had pistols and EBR's for long periods in the past hand have won some (crappy) shooting matches. In short it takes 3 years to be able to own EBR's if you take a break from shooting/cant make the 18x training+ organised competition requirements you have to build up your ability to handle such dangerous weapons from scratch.

We are the absolute bottom of the barrel in almost every respect. Strangely on paper we have it quite good, self defence is a legitimate reason to get a license, you can collect FA and near any kind of large caliber or DD. In practice you can NEVER prove a need for self defence unless you're already dead, and to collect you have to have a scientific reason and be a member of a organisation of elitist anti gun scumbags who believe normal people should not have access to such guns (oh can you cant shoot your collected guns).

My image of Sweden comes mainly from the fact that they tried to ban 'war toys' in EU somewhere in the mid 1990's (cant correctly remember) and have sponsored some arms destruction in Africa and I was under the impression that self defence articles like pepper spray/tazers were banned.


As for the position of Eu Commissioners as you know this is somewhat complex, she does not represent Sweden or its government but the fact remain that commissioners do have a background and I will predict a ban on something like say wine will be more successful with a Swedish commissioner than a French one.






Link Posted: 10/30/2013 11:07:52 AM EDT
Originally Posted By iggy1337:
Originally Posted By swede1986:
Originally Posted By iggy1337:

Point being this is being pushed by a Swede*1 a country that I consider to be radically anti gun (along with my country and the UK). We might luck out in the sense that there will be resistance from a lot of countries who don't appreciate the meddling in the national criminal justice systems. Though they will all hate guns the aspect concerning the competence to intervene in the national criminal justice systems is a hot potato since the Treaty of Lisbon and a lot of countries are keen to mark their boundaries.







*1 Ok EU commissioners don't represent the interests of their respective countries but if you believe that I've got yet another Nigerian fortune for you.
View Quote


No offense, but Sweden isn't even in the same league as your country, or the UK. Our laws are far from perfect, but gun ownership is far more accepted here. Your country has less firearms per capita than countries like India and China.

Nor does Malmström represent all of the Swedish government. She represents Folkpartiet, which is a small party, and she's being fought by MEPs from the much larger Moderate Party.
View Quote


Have no doubt swede I fully guarantee my country is one of the worst places to own a gun on the planet. Currently I don't even have a gun license because I cant make the training and active competition requirements (young family, local range closed down).

If I start up again I will have to start with .22 Olympic (3 years) weapons even though I've had pistols and EBR's for long periods in the past hand have won some (crappy) shooting matches. In short it takes 3 years to be able to own EBR's if you take a break from shooting/cant make the 18x training+ organised competition requirements you have to build up your ability to handle such dangerous weapons from scratch.

We are the absolute bottom of the barrel in almost every respect. Strangely on paper we have it quite good, self defence is a legitimate reason to get a license, you can collect FA and near any kind of large caliber or DD. In practice you can NEVER prove a need for self defence unless you're already dead, and to collect you have to have a scientific reason and be a member of a organisation of elitist anti gun scumbags who believe normal people should not have access to such guns (oh can you cant shoot your collected guns).

Wow, that's even worse than I though.


My image of Sweden comes mainly from the fact that they tried to ban 'war toys' in EU somewhere in the mid 1990's (cant correctly remember) and have sponsored some arms destruction in Africa and I was under the impression that self defence articles like pepper spray/tazers were banned.

I can't remember anyone trying to ban war toys, they've always been legal here.

As for the position of Eu Commissioners as you know this is somewhat complex, she does not represent Sweden or its government but the fact remain that commissioners do have a background and I will predict a ban on something like say wine will be more successful with a Swedish commissioner than a French one.


Malmström belongs to the urban Social-Liberal Folkpartiet, and like many urbanites in Sweden she lacks any insight into firearms and the shooting sports. She published an article in a Swedish paper, in which she detailed her crusade against firearms.

However, that article was fraught with factual errors and false statistics. She has since been called out, not only by members of Moderaterna (the party that currently holds power) but also by the opposition Social Democrats. Folkpartiet is a small party, representing less than 10% of the electorate, while Moderaterna and the Social Democrats represent over 60% and are the leading parties of their respective blocks.

There is simply no consensus on tightening gun laws further, either here or in the EU. On the contrary, the largest parties know that gun owners in Sweden represent well over 10% of the electorate, and are key to winning rural areas. 2014 is an election year here.




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Link Posted: 10/30/2013 11:44:26 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/30/2013 12:28:09 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By toemag:
Splitting hairs Gentlemen, just sit back and watch what happens, do your petitioning and lobbying as you see fit, only time will tell.



This was just posted on Nigel's Facebook status, as a MEP he is probably more aware of their capabilities.

Tony
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Originally Posted By toemag:
Splitting hairs Gentlemen, just sit back and watch what happens, do your petitioning and lobbying as you see fit, only time will tell.

Nigel Farage MEP
Options for this story

We do not want an EU public prosecutor. For the true EU believers, the centralising project will not be slowed. They never accept ‘No’ for an answer


This was just posted on Nigel's Facebook status, as a MEP he is probably more aware of their capabilities.

Tony


Farage is a one trick pony. His whole schtick is to bitch and moan about the EU.
Link Posted: 10/30/2013 1:18:43 PM EDT
On the Subject of the 'war toy' ban I was wrong.

Seems the European parliament did vote to pass one but it was never adopted (before Sweden even joined).

The ban was apparently inspired by a voluntary ban in Sweden and Norway.

Don't know if that really the case but it was claimed Sweden does this in the book "Children Behaving Badly: Peer Violence Between Children and Young People" page 213, don't know if this link will work HERE

Claim is made again by this idiot Here

Vote by the European Parliament can be found HERE
Link Posted: 10/30/2013 1:22:07 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By iggy1337:
On the Subject of the 'war toy' ban I was wrong.

Seems the European parliament did vote to pass one but it was never adopted (before Sweden even joined).

The ban was apparently inspired by a voluntary ban in Sweden and Norway.

Don't know if that really the case but it was claimed Sweden does this in the book "Children Behaving Badly: Peer Violence Between Children and Young People" page 213, don't know if this link will work HERE

Claim is made again by this idiot Here

Vote by the European Parliament can be found HERE
View Quote


I've never heard of such a thing. War toys are readily accessible in any toy store.
Link Posted: 10/30/2013 1:26:01 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/30/2013 7:19:27 PM EDT
For me it's just to simple.

Europe (IMO) need a single market to be competitive and to stop my Dutch bureaucrats from thinking up retarded product requirements.

I could have the whole thing fixed in one day, but national governments just don't like to give up their pet money makers and ego projects. For instance the Swedish government wastes a ton of time and money defending their retardedly stupid monopoly on alcohol sales ( SystemBorkbork bork )

@ Swede I see what you mean when my wife was in Sweden she bought my son a toy p99 so I know they are not currently banned. But as you also see

Link Posted: 10/30/2013 8:01:02 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By iggy1337:
For me it's just to simple.

Europe (IMO) need a single market to be competitive and to stop my Dutch bureaucrats from thinking up retarded product requirements.

I could have the whole thing fixed in one day, but national governments just don't like to give up their pet money makers and ego projects. For instance the Swedish government wastes a ton of time and money defending their retardedly stupid monopoly on alcohol sales ( SystemBorkbork bork )

@ Swede I see what you mean when my wife was in Sweden she bought my son a toy p99 so I know they are not currently banned. But as you also see

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I know. We have a lot of retarded idiosyncrasies as well.
Link Posted: 12/3/2013 7:57:39 AM EDT
Remember the EU poll about firearms earlier this year? Well, here are the results...

Opposite than results, EU wants to ban private gun ownership in the European Union

Here is the article
Link Posted: 12/3/2013 8:41:16 AM EDT
And it will be damn easy too. No 2nd amendment, no strong pro gun lobby organisation like the NRA, in most countries everything is registered with the authorities, and in some places a gun permit has an expiration date and you have to get it renewed. No need to go the confiscation route or even do a buy back like in the UK. Just wait for peoples licenses to expire and refuse to renew them. After that it's turn them in or become a criminal
Link Posted: 12/5/2013 5:00:32 AM EDT
Or just wait for the next shooting spree.... Then they'll outlaw all firearms anyway. It's for the children....
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 7:46:44 PM EDT
I think FIDESZ the current right wing in Hungary is partially pro gun. They have changed some laws SLOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWLY but more can be done.

At least they are not anti-gun.

Link Posted: 4/18/2014 12:05:08 AM EDT
Dear Sir, Madam

I assume that you have already noticed Commissioner Malmström’s campaign against gun violence in Europe and also read the COM(2013)716 presented to the Council and the European Parliament on 21.10.2013.
We believe the Communication contains manipulated data, misleading information and defamatory statements that criminalize legal gun owners.

Commission’s actions speak for themselves:
• an on-line survey, in which 81 000 citizens strongly opposed further action on EU level regarding the firearms legislation, was dismissed shortly afterwards by the DG Home as not “representative of a cross-section of the general public” and not “scientifically based”
• poor knowledge of the Directive 91/477/EEC, as amended by Directive 2008/51/EC, the Group of Experts and Mrs. Malmström have demonstrated. Either addressing issues that are already regulated or interfering where even the Firearms directive allows the EU Member states, in accordance with the principle of subsidiarity, some initiative.
• Mrs. Malmström’s statement made at the Conference - "Fight against illicit trafficking in firearms. Where do we stand" held on 19 November 2012 in Brussel: ”Legally owned weapons in the EU continue to feed the illegal market.”

In cooperation with the GunLex organisation, around 3000 legal gun owners in Czech Republic have lodged a complaint with the European Ombudsman for suspected data manipulation by the European Commission in the COM(2013)716 presented to the Council and the European Parliament on 21 October 2013.
The complaint does not only summarize Mrs. Malmström’s malpractices, but also requests immediate withdrawal of Commission’s document COM(2013)716. Furthermore, it requests internal investigation into Commissioner’s work that would preferably lead to disciplinary action for serious misconduct and abuse of power that was vested in her by the citizens of the EU.
The elections to the European Parliament will take place next month. Let’s send the European Commission a clear message that misrepresenting facts and ignoring undesired figures in order to justify an EU action at all costs, will not be tolerated.
This complaint is also written in English and we would therefore be very glad, if gun owners in your country would join us too, as we aim to attract (media and public) attention with these complaints in order to prevent Mrs. Malmström becoming Commissioner again and DG Home bureaucrats keeping their present jobs.

Please, publish this initiative on your websites and call on your fellow gun owners to send a complaint as well. Together we have the power to change things for better, please do not waste this opportunity. Let the public and the media know, that the Commission manipulates data in order to overrule the principles of subsidiarity and proportionality, I am sure that many European citizens will reflect this during the EP elections.
The Complaint to European Ombudsman together with Guide – How to lodge a complaint on European ombudsman’s web portal, are available on the GunLex websites:

GunLex Website

I would like to personally thank you for all your effort in this matter.

Kind regards

Marta Kyrsova
Czech gun owner
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Link Posted: 4/19/2014 5:37:48 PM EDT
Complaint has been send regarding those deceitful bastards And thanks for the heads up!
Link Posted: 4/26/2014 5:20:36 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By The_Dane:
And it will be damn easy too. No 2nd amendment, no strong pro gun lobby organisation like the NRA, in most countries everything is registered with the authorities, and in some places a gun permit has an expiration date and you have to get it renewed. No need to go the confiscation route or even do a buy back like in the UK. Just wait for peoples licenses to expire and refuse to renew them. After that it's turn them in or become a criminal
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Our shooting organisation activly tries to discourage 'combat' based weapons and sports for fear of hurting the image of shooting sports even to the point agreeing to a ban with the justice minister that was later rolled back because there was not even a political majority.

Link Posted: 4/27/2014 7:50:24 AM EDT
How do they define "combat" weapons? Is it based on features on the weapon (bayo lug, flash suppresor, magazine capacity, etc.), like they do in many states in the US?

And is it aimed at longguns or handguns? I know that in several countries, it can be quite difficult and/or take a very long time to get your license. Not to mention all the restrictions on the number of handguns you can own, what calibers, which models, and so on.

Around here we have three shooting organizations. Only one of them seems interested in working on evolving the shooting sport with new types of competitions, and it is really thanks to them that we are able to shoot IPSC in DK.

Link Posted: 4/27/2014 9:25:39 AM EDT
Possession here is always related to actual competition in a sport (ie.we have to train at least 18x a year and show the stamps to the police to keep our license). The gun you have therefore must be tied in to the sport you (actively)do.

Hunting has its own (retarded) rules for weapons and a collecting license means you are not allowed to shoot the weapons or buy ammo for them (but you can for instance collect FA etc).

No real difference between long guns and handguns for shooting sports but we now have the rule that new license holders have to build up to semi auto centerline over a 3 year period.

The Dutch shooting association really hates any non Olympic shooting sports (and no they cant handle the irony of the biathlon). they consider any sport that uses simulates humans as targets or has you moving around as bad for the image even to the extent that you cant get a sport license for cowboy action shooting because wearing cowboy clothes is not good for the image of shooting. they do however allow IPSC is recognises as long as the targets don't have a human form.

In all its to complex and stupid to put in a post but we end up in discussions here if a barrel is tapered or not to distinguish a semi auto .22 AR clone from a semi auto non military based carbine





Link Posted: 4/27/2014 10:46:47 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/27/2014 10:48:45 AM EDT by The_Dane]
It appears that the Dutch and Danish gun Laws are quite similar. Membership of a shooting Club is also a requirement here, and you have to be at least 20 years old and have been an active member for at least 2 years before you can get a license. And the chairman of the board at the Club must sign off on your application to the police, as to confirm that you are and have been an active member for the required amount of time.

Also, it is heavily restricted what you can own. The minimum length of a handgun must be 210mm, only approved calibers allowed, and no more than two guns per caliber. No magazine restriction though, but you can only load five shots in most competitions.

If you have a hunting license it is much less restrictive. You don't need anybody to sign off on your license application, shotguns do not require a weapons permit, only a valid Hunters license, and you can buy semi automatic rifles, which are not allowed for sports shooting.

I'm surprised that you can collect FA, even if you can't shoot them. Do the guns have to have a certain age (for example pre-1945), and can anybody with a clean criminal record apply for a collectors license?

Link Posted: 4/27/2014 5:52:37 PM EDT
Yes almost exactly the same in regards to membership of a gun club ect. For instance I have to put my guns in storage because my gun range closed due to re development of the area and the new location not being available yet.

Not many weapon rules as such but some stupid ones none the less.

-Calibers = anything modern under .50 but for just to screw with you .25 ACP is banned out of all the calibers

-Long guns must have a barrel of at least 30cm or be over 60 com in total.

-Handguns must have a barrel length of more than 2,5 cm.

-No pump or semi auto shotguns with more than a 3 round capacity


The collecting license is a weird one as you just can go collecting any old gun you need prove an interest specific type or period and be a roughage's member of a (private) collectors club.

But if you qualify the sky's the limit concerning modern guns, the coolest one is owned by a friend and is a fully functioning M-61 Vulcan.

We do have some good antique rules though as any 18+ can buy guns like the Winchester 1897 (ironic seeing as WITH a license you cant get a pump gun) or a cap and ball revolver or lever actions (as long as they the original antiques).
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