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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 6/27/2003 10:56:28 PM EDT
Here's the URL: http://www.sftt.org/

Check the articles about weapons and equipment performance. One that called my attetion talked about CLP and associated problems. OK, we're not in Iraq or a similar environment. But, apparently, there are other issues.

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"Wrong Lubricant, Jammed Weapons, Dead Soldiers"

"The probable cause of this widespread weapons failure has been blamed on a government-issued lubricant known as “CLP” that has been provided to many – but not all – U.S. Army soldiers. A number of Army veterans and contractors have denounced CLP as totally ineffective in preventing sand and dust buildup in weapons in Iraq.

“The CLP and Breakfree brand oil the military purchases is worthless,” said Aaron Johnson, a 10-year veteran of the Army and Army Reserve, and author of a DefenseWatch guest column on the Army M9 sidearm (“How to Save the M9 Beretta,” June 16, 2003). “I'm sure large amounts are acquired [by the Army] at relatively low cost, but that’s why it should be done away with. That oil is too rich, and has little effectiveness at keeping weapons clean.”

“The troops will tell you, CLP attracts dirt and grit.” Johnson continued. “It is also so thick it can reduce recoil speed, resulting in stoppages. It thickens in the cold, and when in hot weather areas it is usually attracting dust and sand.”

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They recommend a MILITEC-1 Synthetic Metal Conditioner.

Anybody knows this one?


Cheers!

Link Posted: 6/27/2003 11:16:24 PM EDT
Interesting...I've been using CLP for about 15 years. That includes a stint in the Army. It's a common misconception that you have to use alot of it to be effective. This is not true. It also may have to do with the fact that the AR is a very "dirty" weapon and has very unforgiving tolerances. The M1 Garand ran just fine in WWII with grease. How much dirt do you think stuck to that stuff?
Link Posted: 6/28/2003 5:14:23 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/28/2003 5:15:27 AM EDT by EOD]
I have been using CLP on weapons since the Army changed to it. This included using it in Gulf War I and I didn't have any problems. I also used it in the jungle environment of Panama and had no problems there either. I think the problem arises more from people not cleaning their weapons properly. The M16/AR15 is not as forgiving as some previous weapons have been. I can't say what anyone else's experience might have been but why wasn't it a problem the first time in the desert or Grenada or Panama or Bosnia, etc. and now it is a problem?
Link Posted: 6/28/2003 7:26:13 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Rossi:
Here's the URL: http://www.sftt.org/


A number of Army veterans and contractors have denounced CLP as totally ineffective in preventing sand and dust buildup in weapons in Iraq.




One obvious problem I see with this article is the above quoted paragraph. No where in the spec for CLP does it require the oil to "prevent sand and dust buildup". Further neither Breakfree, nor Royco claim that it will. I have never seen oil that did not allow dust, dirt etc to attract to it unless it was a dry lube.

John, a Marines friend of mine just returns from Iraq and was with the 3/4 lemma company. According to him if he kept his weapon dry and closed up he had very few malfunctions. This also came after him telling me about "ghetto stomping" an AK to fix a jam, and numerous other incidents where AKs on the field of battle would jam while being used. The bottom line is sand will cause malfunctions with any weapon system, oil or not.

The Azalin
Link Posted: 6/28/2003 2:45:16 PM EDT
When I started out in the Corps in 81 we used LSA, which I liked and still do for certain applications. Sometime in late 82/83 my unit at Camp Pendleton converted to CLP and was met with apprehention...hard to change old dog kinda thing, but I liked it too. Still we were instructed that the M16 rifle needed very little lubrication and I still believe this in a combat situation. The only lube we applied was two squirts in the bolt carier gas ring holes...thats it. I never had a failure with my M16a1.
Link Posted: 6/28/2003 6:47:08 PM EDT
Thanks for the replies.

I use to apply dry lubricants to my bicycles chains and moving parts in order to avoid/reduce dust/sand adherence to them. Standard lubricants make a big mess there after a ride.

I got a bottle of Butch's Bore Shine CLP to maintain my AR but when I saw the mess (drips from the breech - perhaps I used too much?) during the barrel break down I started imaging if I might have similar problems with dust as with my bicycles. When I bought an Otis cleaning kit I also got a can of Remington Dry Lube, in order to try keeping the rifle dry.

Reading your comments I now believe I used too much CLP during the break down.

I think the rifle should be as dry as possible in order to "attract" as few dust/dirt/sand as possible. If I understood your posts right that should be the right thing to do.

What's the best thing for that? Continue with the CLP or use the Dry Lube?

By the way. Just saw that Militec (http://militec-1.com/) is giving away free samples of their products. You may want to give them a try.


One last doubt/concern. Should a combat rifle (AR-16, etc.) be so "sensitive" to lubricants/cleaning methods as I understood the ARs are? I never went to a war but always read and talked with people who went and imagine that there are not too many opportunities/resources to keep a "high maintenance" weapon. This made the Colt 1911 a better "war weapon" than the Luger in WWII. Am I missing something?

Cheers!
Link Posted: 6/28/2003 7:27:05 PM EDT
In the US military, you are taught to break down and clean your weapon as often as possible. To be honest, the type of combat the typical US soldier will see is condusive to this doctrine. War nowadays isn't like it was in the World Wars where you kept moving and fighting. The engagements are typically limited and technology plays a huge role. The Israeli philosophy on the M16 is that you're going to get the opportunity to clean daily anyway so being somewhat high maintenance isn't too much of an issue.
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