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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 8/28/2005 8:29:02 AM EDT
So here I am just getting out of church and my wife called to tell me that she wanted me to stop by Wendy's (Toledo Blade in front of Home Depot, Port Charlotte) to pick her up something for lunch. So I'm not the "perfect Latter-day Saint" and it's something that plague's my thoughts from time to time; but I digress.

After placing my order at the Drive Through, I pulled up to the first window to pay and had my money out waiting. The lady that was standing there that was supposed to take my money wasn't looking at me at all and I was thinking she was dumb in the first place. She was standing there with this look on her face staring into space while holding her little mouth piece close to her lips. While talking to someone else on the other end she quietly said, "Do you want me to call the police?" My heart jumped when I heard that. My immediate thoughts were that the place was being robbed.

I asked her what was going on and she said that there was a man inside choking his young daughter. I immediately told her that I'm coming inside to intervene. I quickly pulled around, got out of the car, and placed my "carry piece" in the inside pocket of my jacket. Never done that before but I was surprised that as big as the Beretta 92FS is, it fell right in. I walked really quick inside to see this huge fat man (now I'm big but this guy dwarfed me) with his huge hands around this little girl. She must have been 8-years old and was just sitting there.

Everyone was just standing or sitting doing nothing. Some ppl were even eating while this guy was choking what it seemed to be his daughter. With a raised voice I said, "Get your hands off of her!!!" (Yes I'm a dork) He immediately stopped and sat down and never even looked at me. He just started eating. On top of that, his wife was sitting there the whole time acting as if nothing was wrong, but she was the one that looked at me. And gave me this nasty look too! Man that pissed me off.

I sat down two tables away from them and ate a small frosty that the Wendy's manager brought out. LOL That was cool. The whole time this man, his wife, and two kids just sat there in silence and ate. It was as if nothing even happened. Eventually they got up and left, fairly quick at that too. Kinda scarfed their meal down really. After they left I got up and while walking out the manager called out, "Thank You!"

I never took my handgun out nor even let anyone know that I had it but boy was my heart beating fast! I'm sooo glad that the man stopped right there and didn't confront me or keep choking his daughter. I've been home now for about 45-minutes and I'm still shaking from the whole incident. My adrenaline must have really spiked and just drawn out all the energy I had. I'm going to go lay down after this.

One question for Aim4MyHead. Were you working today around 11:30 AM? If so did you hear anything get called in for that location? I was waiting for police to show up and then started to wonder if the Wendy's ppl even called the cops. Sigh...

First time anything like that happened where I felt that I was able to intervene and possibly control the situation if it got out of hand. Makes me thankful I have my CCW.

Talk to you all later.
Link Posted: 8/28/2005 9:05:54 AM EDT
Oh MAN! Good Call-
Link Posted: 8/28/2005 9:23:17 AM EDT
Yep........Kuddos to you my friend!
Link Posted: 8/28/2005 12:36:38 PM EDT
Lets hope that never such a situation may arise, but if need be, ya'll are prepared to do the right thing.

Kudos, mormon hippie.gif
Link Posted: 8/28/2005 2:26:59 PM EDT
Good job!

Unfortunately, the little girl most likely got a severe beating once she got home.

I would love to spend some time with a Father like that. Both of us locked in a room.
I have no problem smashing a Man's face for beating on a child. It sickens and outrages me to the point of violence. Been there, done that and would do it again!

HS1
Link Posted: 8/28/2005 4:15:43 PM EDT
Good job Tom. You did what you could......my temper is much more mellow now than it would have been when I was your age......
Link Posted: 8/28/2005 4:27:50 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/28/2005 7:49:10 PM EDT
man good job! i tell you what i think this area is quickly headed for the shitter. Some asshole tried to accost me when i was leaving fowler street grill today. basically i told him to get the hell away from me or he was gonna eat my HJC helemt (i was on the motorcycle today) man he was pissed. fuck him.

anyway as for you not being the most "perfect" of LDS members man i don't know what they teach you guys or the tenents of your church but "thou shalt threaten to kick the ass of some asshole choking his kid" should be in EVERY church along with "thou shall follow through with said threat if need be"

you were in a well armed way being the good samaritian.
Link Posted: 8/28/2005 8:13:44 PM EDT
you did a good thing. a) you were armed. b)you didn't have to use it. I think you did an outstanding job. while others don't have the b@lls to act you did, many people feel "if it doesn't effect them, don't get involved". thats the wus way out. i comend your actions and wish others would stand up as well. (dont act cop'ish) but fight the good fight... darth you need to stop going out side, the strange ones are drawn to you i dont know maybe its your after shave.. hi karate right?

p.s. you know im kidding......darthaza
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 4:28:21 AM EDT
It sounds like that father was too comfortable acting like that. Like it is 'normal'.

Not to bring you down, you did good to stop what was happening. The police were a critical missing link here as this needed to be followed up in order to protect the child. He needs to be run thru the mill in order to break the pattern that most certainly exists.

Wendy's manager should have called P.D. If not when stupified, then when support was shown/given.

Link Posted: 8/29/2005 10:29:41 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/29/2005 6:06:46 PM EDT by 1_AR_NEWBIE]
Let me start by saying GREAT JOB!!!!

But... I would like to pose a question to all of you...

Lets just say I was you and I tell this jack-ass to stop and he does not, What then????

I'm a little guy, 5 foot 10 125lbs, and you say this dick was huge do I draw down on him???

I have my CCW and carry EVERYDAY would that be lawfull thing to do????

Sounds like the right thing to do if I feel that my punch or push will not help the girl BUT... I am not in fear for my life so can I draw???

hope someone can help

THANKS
Mike
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 10:37:09 AM EDT
Good job man.

Good thing you didn't pull out your CCW piece.
Might have been reading about you in the paper or on the news networks.

Good to know at least one real MAN was there to stop the situation.

good job again man.
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 11:49:29 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 1_AR_NEWBIE:
...do I draw down on him???

I have my CCW and carry EVERYDAY would that be lawfull thing to do????

Sound like the right thing to do if I fell that my punch or push will not help the girl BUT... I am not in fear for my live so can I draw???



Thanks guys. I'm just happy that it didn't get to the point where I had to pull my "conceal carry" out. Never been in a situation like that before. I know what I'd like to think how I'd react but not sure how I would if reality hit me right then and there and I was facing a large man w/ my handgun out. Just glad that it didn't go south after that point and they eventually left. I felt terribly sorry though for the little girl. Made me think of my daughter a lot when I got home.

What I think I'd do (not saying that I'm brave enough) was that if the man ignored me and kept his fat hands around his daughters neck I would have warned him a second time and told him that I was armed. If he then ignored I would then warn him again while taking it out. I can't really say what else I'd do from there on but I would hope that the man wouldn't escalate.

Now if the man took his hands off of his daughter and proceeded to threaten me, I'd have my gun out immediately and keep as much distance between his fat ass and mine. A warning would always come first of course w/ my laser on his chest and I'd point his attention to it. Most of the time that disarm's ppl when they realize where a bullet would potentially go.

Then again... this is all what I like to think what I'd do. Not saying that I would if it actually came down to it. With the way I was shaking during the whole ordeal and when I got home makes me think that maybe I'm not as prepared as I should be. Other than that, I do believe that those reactions are within the law, correct me if I'm wrong.

Thanks again for everyone's comments.
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 12:03:31 PM EDT
Sorry but, I gotta ask....

Why didn't you call the Po-Po?

Link Posted: 8/29/2005 12:08:27 PM EDT
I thoguht they were doing it when I was sitting there. My only thought was to run in and see what was happening. My wife asked me the same thing when I got home. I can't even say if they were called or not. That's why I asked Josh to see if he was working yesterday and heard a call go out. Either way, none showed up even by the time I left. My wife asked me the same thing when I got home Chris.
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 1:16:48 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 3:47:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AZATHOTH777:
you did a good thing. a) you were armed. b)you didn't have to use it. I think you did an outstanding job. while others don't have the b@lls to act you did, many people feel "if it doesn't effect them, don't get involved". thats the wus way out. i comend your actions and wish others would stand up as well. (dont act cop'ish) but fight the good fight... darth you need to stop going out side, the strange ones are drawn to you i dont know maybe its your after shave.. hi karate right?

p.s. you know im kidding......darthaza




man i dunno. i haven't had a lick of trouble in a coons age and all of a sudden shit just starts up and running wild. i figured it out last night. I am a dull boring person living a crazy life. my boss asked me if i have a red bullseye on my back. i dunno i am starting to think it.
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 6:18:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SGB:

Originally Posted By 1_AR_NEWBIE:
Let me start by saying GREAT JOB!!!!

But... I would like to pose a question to all of you...

Lets just say I was you and I tell this jack-ass to stop and he does not, What then????

I'm a little guy, 5 foot 10 125lbs, and you say this dick was huge do I draw down on him???

I have my CCW and carry EVERYDAY would that be lawfull thing to do????

Sounds like the right thing to do if I feel that my punch or push will not help the girl BUT... I am not in fear for my live so can I draw???

hope someone can help

THANKS
Mike




If you don't know the answers already then you have no business carrying.



I know the answer, Asking to get others input....Thought that was the purpose of this board...

Thanks for all yours

Mike
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 6:30:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/29/2005 6:39:08 PM EDT by AZATHOTH777]

Originally Posted By 1_AR_NEWBIE:
Let me start by saying GREAT JOB!!!!

But... I would like to pose a question to all of you...

Lets just say I was you and I tell this jack-ass to stop and he does not, What then????

I'm a little guy, 5 foot 10 125lbs, and you say this dick was huge do I draw down on him???

I have my CCW and carry EVERYDAY would that be lawfull thing to do????

Sounds like the right thing to do if I feel that my punch or push will not help the girl BUT... I am not in fear for my life so can I draw???

hope someone can help

THANKS
Mike


just remember YOU or another person, in fear of death or great bodly harm. if im being choked out i would concider that "fear of death". but now we are "what if"ing.

p.s. sorry i didnt read all the way down the thread before i posted. woops
darth- i was wondering if that was a fashon statement, the "kick-me" notes on your jacket...
azadarth
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 7:36:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/29/2005 7:37:01 PM EDT by CS223]

Originally Posted By 1_AR_NEWBIE:
Let me start by saying GREAT JOB!!!!

But... I would like to pose a question to all of you...

Lets just say I was you and I tell this jack-ass to stop and he does not, What then????

I'm a little guy, 5 foot 10 125lbs, and you say this dick was huge do I draw down on him???

I have my CCW and carry EVERYDAY would that be lawfull thing to do????

Sounds like the right thing to do if I feel that my punch or push will not help the girl BUT... I am not in fear for my life so can I draw???

hope someone can help


THANKS
Mike



You draw on his ass, in a command voice tell him to stop "Hands of the kid", repeat over & over as you advance gun pointed at his head. If you can reasonable acertain that the childs life is in danger, you can see the kid losing conscienceness, the grip is crushing the throat, it's not an act etc. and their are no innocents behind the perp, you ventilate his ass if he doesn't yield to your command. Call the police immediately, get names of witnesses. If you have to take a shot in the presense of innocents, go for the pelvis, lots of bone to stop over penetration. You can legally defend your life or the life of someone you know to be innocent.
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 9:33:36 PM EDT
You draw on his ass, in a command voice tell him to stop "Hands of the kid", repeat over & over as you advance gun pointed at his head. If you can reasonable acertain that the childs life is in danger, you can see the kid losing conscienceness, the grip is crushing the throat, it's not an act etc. and their are no innocents behind the perp, you ventilate his ass if he doesn't yield to your command. Call the police immediately, get names of witnesses. If you have to take a shot in the presense of innocents, go for the pelvis, lots of bone to stop over penetration. You can legally defend your life or the life of someone you know to be innocent.


The answer I was looking 4!!!!!!!!!

I know the laws and am fully aware of how to use them in the "real world"....Just wanted to see if you guys were on your toes...<<<<YOU ARE>>>>!!!!

Mike

P.S. Thanks 4 the pelvis info had not thought of that...
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 1:55:11 AM EDT

Something similar happened to me a few years ago.

Man and woman on the street outside my house in the middle of the night, arguing. I'm watching through the storm door with the light off, armed, and sure enough he starts to choke her, shaking her back and forth as well. I flip on the light, step outside, and yell 'Hey' with my rifle at my side, pointing at the ground. He sees me, lets go of the woman, turns, and starts walking away.

She walks in the opposite direction, towards a 24hr convenience store down the road. I ask her if she wants me to call the cops, she shakes her head no. Moments later, a car pulls down the road with two extremely fat women in the front seat. The stop next to the man, and he gets in the back seat. Then, they pull up next to the woman, and she gets in as well, right next to the guy who was choking her about one minute ago. They all drive off.

At this point I throw up my hands and vow not to get involved in another domestic dispute between two adults.

MormonComputerz, you did the right thing, I hope I would have done the same in your situation.

Link Posted: 8/30/2005 7:58:10 AM EDT
A question was posed to me in another forum. Specifically by the user MOTOX. He actually believes that I should leave my gun at home and not carry it w/ me. You can see my reply to him about defending oneself and another where the law cannot offer immediate redress.

He then asks, "What does the law state about the wrongful death lawsuit that will follow if you shoot the guy?"

Any input on how I can better answer him? I answered him partially already but would love to lay examples down at his feet to show him that his thought process is a bit wayward.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 11:37:55 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/30/2005 11:41:49 AM EDT by CS223]

Originally Posted By MormonComputerZ:
A question was posed to me in another forum. Specifically by the user MOTOX. He actually believes that I should leave my gun at home and not carry it w/ me. You can see my reply to him about defending oneself and another where the law cannot offer immediate redress.

He then asks, "What does the law state about the wrongful death lawsuit that will follow if you shoot the guy?"

Any input on how I can better answer him? I answered him partially already but would love to lay examples down at his feet to show him that his thought process is a bit wayward.



Florida has the Sunshine Law that "may" protect you. It is normally applied to rendering aid to an injured person and a subsiquent injury or death results. Because you were rendering aid in good faith, you cannot be held liable. None the less, the mood of the courts in FL are in favor of the defender.

Likewise, FL is a felony murder state. If you shot & killed one asshole of a two asshole team, the second asshole would be charged with the murder of the first.

Unlike the other side of the Mason-Dixon line.

Obviously, you must exercise prudence and be able to back up your decision to use deadly force.

Domestic disputes are the worst because in the end, you could look like the bad guy. You've seen the Cops episodes where the battered woman won't press charges because she loves the asshole who beat her up, if only he's stop drinking, doing drugs etc.

If you haven't had any kind of firearms training and you carry. I suggest LFI-I by Massad Ayoob. He will be teaching in Live Oak this fall. Consider it CCW insurance.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 1:21:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CS223:
If you haven't had any kind of firearms training and you carry. I suggest LFI-I by Massad Ayoob. He will be teaching in Live Oak this fall. Consider it CCW insurance.



Thank you so very much for the insight. It helped me view it a way I didn't yet. As regarding Massad Ayoob's training, do you have an informational link I can go to?
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 9:26:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MormonComputerZ:
A question was posed to me in another forum. Specifically by the user MOTOX. He actually believes that I should leave my gun at home and not carry it w/ me. You can see my reply to him about defending oneself and another where the law cannot offer immediate redress.

He then asks, "What does the law state about the wrongful death lawsuit that will follow if you shoot the guy?"

Any input on how I can better answer him? I answered him partially already but would love to lay examples down at his feet to show him that his thought process is a bit wayward.



Personally I'd tell him to FOAD
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 10:07:01 AM EDT
Well Done.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 6:01:20 PM EDT
Here's a question for the lawyer in training:

Which would be worse, defending yourself in a lawsuit, or watching an 8 year old brutally murdered while you watch, ignoring your power to save her?

Good job friend. If more grown, capable men and women would squash their fears and stand up for their neighbors, families, and random innocents, we would all be in a safer place.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 9:49:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Packin_Heat:
Here's a question for the lawyer in training:

Which would be worse, defending yourself in a lawsuit, or watching an 8 year old brutally murdered while you watch, ignoring your power to save her?



Did not say I would not help....

As a matter of fact I don't think I would have been so calm about it. (May have drawn as soon as I confirmed she was in danger) I read this and other boards to be prepared for such incidents...

I just ask Questions to get some input and talk about it...

Not trying to highjack anyone's thread just wanting to talk about the laws in real world application ...

Thanks,
Mike


P.S. not a lawyer in training just a gun junkie
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 2:44:45 AM EDT
I appreciate all of your questions Mike.
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 6:15:57 AM EDT
Sorry Mike, I didn't mean to flame you in particular.
I just get upset with the other 40-50 people in the restaurant who would sit and watch.
I'm sure you're part of the solution, and we do need to be well aware of the legal ramifications.
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 7:55:37 AM EDT
Good job man. I feel sorry for the girl... What a fat bastard.
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