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Posted: 8/4/2011 5:39:35 PM EDT
[#1]
The only things that bug me about AS is the range fee and the restrictions ($20 for long-guns only on Long-Gun side, $15 for handgun on handgun side only). Aside from that it's not so bad. When I just need to put a few hundy through my carry handguns I'll hit up their range every once in a blue moon. It beats hauling all the way to CCSP.
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Posted: 8/4/2011 7:10:35 PM EDT
[#2]
Why do they need to see copies of your form 1 & 4?
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Posted: 8/4/2011 7:19:21 PM EDT
[#3]
Quoted: Why do they need to see copies of your form 1 & 4? Range nazis |
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Posted: 8/4/2011 8:02:57 PM EDT
[#4]
Quoted:
Why do they need to see copies of your form 1 & 4? Yes, why? |
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Posted: 8/4/2011 8:37:41 PM EDT
[#5]
only ATF is alowed to ask for your Form 4 if i remember corectly
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Posted: 8/4/2011 9:22:00 PM EDT
[#6]
Quoted:
only ATF is alowed to ask for your Form 4 if i remember corectly It's private property, their house rules...if you don't like it, you can shoot somewhere else 
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Posted: 8/4/2011 9:30:38 PM EDT
[#7]
Quoted: Quoted: only ATF is alowed to ask for your Form 4 if i remember corectly It's private property, their house rules...if you don't like it, you can shoot somewhere else which is exactly why ASS has never seen a dime of my money |
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Posted: 8/5/2011 10:20:12 AM EDT
[#8]
Quoted:
if you don't like it, you can shoot somewhere else I do 
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Posted: 8/5/2011 11:19:28 AM EDT
[#9]
Yep, DS member here. I don't know why I keep paying yearly, I should've ponied up the lifetime membership a looong time ago!
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Posted: 8/6/2011 3:59:14 AM EDT
[#10]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Why do they need to see copies of your form 1 & 4? Range nazis Guess I'm a Range Nazi. I require copies of forms for all NFA weapons/items brought to my courses. Let the flamin' begin. |
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Posted: 8/6/2011 7:47:16 AM EDT
[#11]
I went up to CCSP almost every week but now they will not let a 9mm registered SBR on the pistol side and the closest target on the rifle side is fifty yards. That's a little far for a 9mm carbine. I don't mind presenting my form 1&4 to the RO. The point of my post was that on a rainy day going to shoot indoors at American Shooters was better than not shooting at all. YMMV,Ronnie.
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Posted: 8/6/2011 1:51:57 PM EDT
[#12]
I used to be down on American Shooters but I have to say lately they have been very nice to deal with. In fact, once they got rid of the Neanderthal working the counter their customer service has gone way up in my book.
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Posted: 8/6/2011 2:18:55 PM EDT
[#13]
Quoted:
I went up to CCSP almost every week but now they will not let a 9mm registered SBR on the pistol side and the closest target on the rifle side is fifty yards. That's a little far for a 9mm carbine. I don't mind presenting my form 1&4 to the RO. The point of my post was that on a rainy day going to shoot indoors at American Shooters was better than not shooting at all. YMMV,Ronnie. I was at CCSP juast last friday and they'd let long guns back on the pistol side of the range. I guess enough people got rubbed the wrong way by it. Quoted:
I used to be down on American Shooters but I have to say lately they have been very nice to deal with. In fact, once they got rid of the Neanderthal working the counter their customer service has gone way up in my book. This. They may be a bit pricey, but they've been just as helpful as say NFA or L&L; I've gone to them more than once with an issue that they straightened out for me for little more than a handshake and a "thank you." |
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Posted: 8/6/2011 2:35:37 PM EDT
[#14]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Why do they need to see copies of your form 1 & 4? Range nazis Guess I'm a Range Nazi. I require copies of forms for all NFA weapons/items brought to my courses. Let the flamin' begin. do you ask to see these papers? Keep a copy? I would never let someone outside of ATF HAVE a copy of my NFA paperwork, and I probably wouldnt let anyone even LOOK at my NFA paperwork who wasnt ATF. Why would you require this? Do you ask to see the insurance and registration for the cars of the students also? both cars and class 3 items are legal to own... Im not busting balls, just curious. Is there a CYA issue on your end? |
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Posted: 8/6/2011 3:57:32 PM EDT
[#15]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Why do they need to see copies of your form 1 & 4? Range nazis Guess I'm a Range Nazi. I require copies of forms for all NFA weapons/items brought to my courses. Let the flamin' begin. do you ask to see these papers? Keep a copy? I would never let someone outside of ATF HAVE a copy of my NFA paperwork, and I probably wouldnt let anyone even LOOK at my NFA paperwork who wasnt ATF. Why would you require this? Do you ask to see the insurance and registration for the cars of the students also? both cars and class 3 items are legal to own... Im not busting balls, just curious. Is there a CYA issue on your end? guilty 'til proven innocent |
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Posted: 8/6/2011 6:19:06 PM EDT
[#16]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Why do they need to see copies of your form 1 & 4? Range nazis Guess I'm a Range Nazi. I require copies of forms for all NFA weapons/items brought to my courses. Let the flamin' begin. Why? |
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Posted: 8/7/2011 7:05:50 AM EDT
[#17]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Why do they need to see copies of your form 1 & 4? Range nazis Guess I'm a Range Nazi. I require copies of forms for all NFA weapons/items brought to my courses. Let the flamin' begin. You ask for a copy to keep on file or just to see a copy of the Form 4? Not a fan of either one, but no one gets copies to keep of my Form 4s but me and the ATF. |
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Posted: 8/7/2011 9:28:06 AM EDT
[#18]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Why do they need to see copies of your form 1 & 4? Range nazis Guess I'm a Range Nazi. I require copies of forms for all NFA weapons/items brought to my courses. Let the flamin' begin. You ask for a copy to keep on file or just to see a copy of the Form 4? Not a fan of either one, but no one gets copies to keep of my Form 4s but me and the ATF. I too will not give anyone a copy for any reason. |
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Posted: 8/7/2011 11:29:10 AM EDT
[#19]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Why do they need to see copies of your form 1 & 4? Range nazis Guess I'm a Range Nazi. I require copies of forms for all NFA weapons/items brought to my courses. Let the flamin' begin. You ask for a copy to keep on file or just to see a copy of the Form 4? Not a fan of either one, but no one gets copies to keep of my Form 4s but me and the ATF. If a student(s) come to any of my courses with NFA Items I ask to see copies of their forms (not originals). I don't keep anything... just view them. Not one NFA holder has EVER complained in over 15 years of being in business. I also ask for picture ID in all of my courses... whether they have NFA items or not. Anybody have a problem with that too? |
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Posted: 8/7/2011 11:51:26 AM EDT
[#20]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Why do they need to see copies of your form 1 & 4? Range nazis Guess I'm a Range Nazi. I require copies of forms for all NFA weapons/items brought to my courses. Let the flamin' begin. do you ask to see these papers? Keep a copy? I would never let someone outside of ATF HAVE a copy of my NFA paperwork, and I probably wouldnt let anyone even LOOK at my NFA paperwork who wasnt ATF. Why would you require this? Do you ask to see the insurance and registration for the cars of the students also? both cars and class 3 items are legal to own... Im not busting balls, just curious. Is there a CYA issue on your end? You know yer bustin' balls, ARin.
JK. It's my own policy. As far as vehicles and NFA goes, NFA Items are "Restricted," vehicles are not. On the other hand, if a student is participating in actual vehicle-defense drills I do ask to see valid registration and insurance for all vehicles involved in the training. If they are just using their POV to get to and from the range, it's a non-issue. |
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Posted: 8/7/2011 2:16:55 PM EDT
[#21]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Why do they need to see copies of your form 1 & 4? Range nazis Guess I'm a Range Nazi. I require copies of forms for all NFA weapons/items brought to my courses. Let the flamin' begin. You ask for a copy to keep on file or just to see a copy of the Form 4? Not a fan of either one, but no one gets copies to keep of my Form 4s but me and the ATF. If a student(s) come to any of my courses with NFA Items I ask to see copies of their forms (not originals). I don't keep anything... just view them. Not one NFA holder has EVER complained in over 15 years of being in business. I also ask for picture ID in all of my courses... whether they have NFA items or not. Anybody have a problem with that too? Sounds like a legit request to me , and a very sound practice from a business aspect. I would have no problems with either request. |
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Posted: 8/7/2011 3:47:42 PM EDT
[#22]
The question has been asked a number of times and still no one has answered as to why you require to see these forms? I'm not trying to start fight but rather educate myself. To my understanding there is no legal requirement for you to ask for them . If the reason is to protect your business from some form of civil liability, what would that liability be? Or is it that since we are talking about restricted NFA items, you feel it to be a personal responsibility to enforce these restrictions? We in the firearms community get hassled enough from outside uneducated sources already. I'm just trying to understand why one of our own would want to hassle us even more. |
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Posted: 8/7/2011 4:02:32 PM EDT
[#23]
i know joe, and i doubt it is for any desire to "hassle" anyone. But the more i think about it, I can understand the CYA or liability on his end. IF, God forbid, someone were to get hurt or shot in a class, and the investigation discovered that the firearm in question was, in fact, and illegal item, Joe might end up on the wrong side of some questioning about why he was teaching a class in which students were employing illegal firearms.
Like i said, the more i think about it, the more that Joe's effort to be duly diligent seems perfectly reasonable. |
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Posted: 8/7/2011 4:28:56 PM EDT
[#24]
Quoted:
i know joe, and i doubt it is for any desire to "hassle" anyone. But the more i think about it, I can understand the CYA or liability on his end. IF, God forbid, someone were to get hurt or shot in a class, and the investigation discovered that the firearm in question was, in fact, and illegal item, Joe might end up on the wrong side of some questioning about why he was teaching a class in which students were employing illegal firearms. Like i said, the more i think about it, the more that Joe's effort to be duly diligent seems perfectly reasonable. Joe, better add to the list bill of sales for any long gun, blue cards or bill of sales for pistols; receipts for NVDs, armor plates, etc.
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Posted: 8/7/2011 6:34:11 PM EDT
[#25]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Why do they need to see copies of your form 1 & 4? Range nazis Guess I'm a Range Nazi. I require copies of forms for all NFA weapons/items brought to my courses. Let the flamin' begin. You ask for a copy to keep on file or just to see a copy of the Form 4? Not a fan of either one, but no one gets copies to keep of my Form 4s but me and the ATF. If a student(s) come to any of my courses with NFA Items I ask to see copies of their forms (not originals). I don't keep anything... just view them. Not one NFA holder has EVER complained in over 15 years of being in business. I also ask for picture ID in all of my courses... whether they have NFA items or not. Anybody have a problem with that too? I'm fine with that, I thought you were asking for copies to keep on file. |
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Posted: 8/7/2011 6:47:05 PM EDT
[#26]
Quoted: I would never let someone outside of ATF HAVE a copy of my NFA paperwork, and I probably wouldnt let anyone even LOOK at my NFA paperwork who wasnt ATF.
Considering those papers prove your exemption from state law, it may be a good idea to show the papers to LE, if and when requested. |
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Posted: 8/7/2011 7:19:18 PM EDT
[#27]
Quoted:
Quoted: I would never let someone outside of ATF HAVE a copy of my NFA paperwork, and I probably wouldnt let anyone even LOOK at my NFA paperwork who wasnt ATF.
Considering those papers prove your exemption from state law, it may be a good idea to show the papers to LE, if and when requested. only if you are wearing your short-shorts...and ask nicely. |
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Posted: 8/7/2011 8:47:36 PM EDT
[#28]
Quoted: Quoted: I would never let someone outside of ATF HAVE a copy of my NFA paperwork, and I probably wouldnt let anyone even LOOK at my NFA paperwork who wasnt ATF. Considering those papers prove your exemption from state law, it may be a good idea to show the papers to LE, if and when requested.  |
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Posted: 8/9/2011 1:46:40 PM EDT
[#29]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Why do they need to see copies of your form 1 & 4? Range nazis Guess I'm a Range Nazi. I require copies of forms for all NFA weapons/items brought to my courses. Let the flamin' begin. You ask for a copy to keep on file or just to see a copy of the Form 4? Not a fan of either one, but no one gets copies to keep of my Form 4s but me and the ATF. If a student(s) come to any of my courses with NFA Items I ask to see copies of their forms (not originals). I don't keep anything... just view them. Not one NFA holder has EVER complained in over 15 years of being in business. I also ask for picture ID in all of my courses... whether they have NFA items or not. Anybody have a problem with that too? Sounds like a legit request to me , and a very sound practice from a business aspect. I would have no problems with either request. Thanks, V-H. Your are among those I'll never have a problem with. 
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Posted: 8/9/2011 1:53:47 PM EDT
[#30]
Quoted:
The question has been asked a number of times and still no one has answered as to why you require to see these forms?
I'm not trying to start fight but rather educate myself. To my understanding there is no legal requirement
for you to ask for them . If the reason is to protect your business from some form of civil liability, what would that liability be? Or is it that since we are talking about restricted NFA items, you feel it to be a personal responsibility to enforce these restrictions? We in the firearms community get hassled enough from outside uneducated sources already.
I'm just trying to understand why one of our own would want to hassle us even more.
Simple. My business, my course, my rules. NFA Items are Federally Restricted and addressed in State Statute NRS 202.350. Although I am not required to "enforce" NFA Rules under Statute, I feel that I have a responsibility to ensure that every student that attends my courses are law-abiding citizens, and the weapons/items they bring are legal. I hope that explains it for you. Be Safe. Joe |
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Posted: 8/9/2011 1:55:04 PM EDT
[#31]
Quoted:
i know joe, and i doubt it is for any desire to "hassle" anyone. But the more i think about it, I can understand the CYA or liability on his end. IF, God forbid, someone were to get hurt or shot in a class, and the investigation discovered that the firearm in question was, in fact, and illegal item, Joe might end up on the wrong side of some questioning about why he was teaching a class in which students were employing illegal firearms. Like i said, the more i think about it, the more that Joe's effort to be duly diligent seems perfectly reasonable. The words of a reasonable Man have been spoken.
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Posted: 8/9/2011 1:55:38 PM EDT
[#32]
Quoted:
Quoted:
i know joe, and i doubt it is for any desire to "hassle" anyone. But the more i think about it, I can understand the CYA or liability on his end. IF, God forbid, someone were to get hurt or shot in a class, and the investigation discovered that the firearm in question was, in fact, and illegal item, Joe might end up on the wrong side of some questioning about why he was teaching a class in which students were employing illegal firearms. Like i said, the more i think about it, the more that Joe's effort to be duly diligent seems perfectly reasonable. Joe, better add to the list bill of sales for any long gun, blue cards or bill of sales for pistols; receipts for NVDs, armor plates, etc. They are already on the list, Bro.
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Posted: 8/9/2011 1:57:02 PM EDT
[#33]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted: I would never let someone outside of ATF HAVE a copy of my NFA paperwork, and I probably wouldnt let anyone even LOOK at my NFA paperwork who wasnt ATF.
Considering those papers prove your exemption from state law, it may be a good idea to show the papers to LE, if and when requested. http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l30/HK94dude/NaziYourPapersPlease.jpg Yep. That's me on the left checking papers prior to a course. BTW: Where on God's Green Earth did you find that photo of me?
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Posted: 8/9/2011 11:48:03 PM EDT
[#34]
Quoted: Quoted: The question has been asked a number of times and still no one has answered as to why you require to see these forms? I'm not trying to start fight but rather educate myself. To my understanding there is no legal requirement for you to ask for them . If the reason is to protect your business from some form of civil liability, what would that liability be? Or is it that since we are talking about restricted NFA items, you feel it to be a personal responsibility to enforce these restrictions? We in the firearms community get hassled enough from outside uneducated sources already. I'm just trying to understand why one of our own would want to hassle us even more. Simple. My business, my course, my rules. NFA Items are Federally Restricted and addressed in State Statute NRS 202.350. Although I am not required to "enforce" NFA Rules under Statute, I feel that I have a responsibility to ensure that every student that attends my courses are law-abiding citizens, and the weapons/items they bring are legal. I hope that explains it for you. Be Safe. Joe Thank you for taking the time to address my question. I sincerely hope you don't feel that I was being unreasonable. I simply had a question and thought I would ask your reasoning behind this practice. Thanks again. |
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Posted: 8/10/2011 12:27:09 AM EDT
[#35]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The question has been asked a number of times and still no one has answered as to why you require to see these forms?
I'm not trying to start fight but rather educate myself. To my understanding there is no legal requirement
for you to ask for them . If the reason is to protect your business from some form of civil liability, what would that liability be? Or is it that since we are talking about restricted NFA items, you feel it to be a personal responsibility to enforce these restrictions? We in the firearms community get hassled enough from outside uneducated sources already.
I'm just trying to understand why one of our own would want to hassle us even more.
Simple. My business, my course, my rules. NFA Items are Federally Restricted and addressed in State Statute NRS 202.350. Although I am not required to "enforce" NFA Rules under Statute, I feel that I have a responsibility to ensure that every student that attends my courses are law-abiding citizens, and the weapons/items they bring are legal. I hope that explains it for you. Be Safe. Joe Thank you for taking the time to address my question. I sincerely hope you don't feel that I was being unreasonable. I simply had a question and thought I would ask your reasoning behind this practice.
Thanks again.
You asked honest questions, and I gave you honest answers. Thank you for your understanding. Be Safe. Joe |
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Posted: 8/10/2011 12:49:23 PM EDT
[#36]
I'm going to call the quote police and have him check all of your quoting licenses for making this thread to God damn long!!!
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Posted: 8/10/2011 1:33:46 PM EDT
[#37]
Quoted:
I'm going to call the quote police and have him check all of your quoting licenses for making this thread to God damn long!!!  thats a riot
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Posted: 8/10/2011 3:13:45 PM EDT
[#38]
Quoted:
I'm going to call the quote police and have him check all of your quoting licenses for making this thread to God damn long!!! Get it straight, Guido. It's the "Quote Nazis."
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