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Posted: 11/18/2008 9:10:49 AM EDT
Hello guys,

I thought i would propose some sort of group as a contingency plan. Hopefully other groups are being formed around the US. Nothing sinister or violent, just preperation through communication. a like minded group is stronger than an individual. all i have to present is the idea so let me hear what you think.
Link Posted: 11/18/2008 9:43:08 AM EDT
Preparation for what?
Link Posted: 11/18/2008 9:43:22 AM EDT
I think that every time a group comes together it gets sullied by troofer type retards and anyone with any brains gets run off if they don't start paying their bills in $20 gold pieces and not paying income taxes.


Link Posted: 11/18/2008 10:26:37 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/18/2008 10:37:16 AM EDT by MGNiko]
Originally Posted By yekimak:
I think that every time a group comes together it gets sullied by troofer type retards and anyone with any brains gets run off if they don't start paying their bills in $20 gold pieces and not paying income taxes.




LOL....but I prefer junk silver now





ETA: Ok I'll be a bit serious as it's not a stupid question in the right setting. For example one of the reasons I like to know the ARFCOM members is the experience I just had with my first kiddo; you have an "extended family" that are there for virtually anything. It's great having like-minded friends out there who have your back and you've got yours.

If you're getting at (for example) a terrorist attack or something that directly effects us and wanting a group to band together and fight the street gangs and other roving hoards of people (and zombies) I get what you're staying too. The problem is those of us in Anchorage are not planning to leave their individual homes; I know I'm not. It would be nice in the extremely unlikely event to have a way to comm with other local ARFCOM members to see if anyone has any dire needs that someone can help with. This could be useful with a natural disaster where government aid is overwhelmed. I've no idea the effect of a 1964 quake in current times and current political climate but I doubt it'd be too good.

While "Lights Out" and "The Collapse" are two of my favorite books I just don't see an EMP taking out our power grid or Chinese/Nork terrorists taking down power, rail, pavement, chem plants, etc.

Link Posted: 11/18/2008 10:39:43 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/18/2008 10:42:18 AM EDT by doorgunner84]
I'm actually a government spy... I've been sent by President Elect Obama and Mark Begich to find and snuff out opposition groups at the grass roots level.

ALL YOUR SONS OF LIBERTY ARE BELONG TO US!
~Dg84


ETA: Wait, I went about this all wrong... it would have been much more funny had I just posted "call me when the sinister, violent shit starts. Because that's when it's fun."
Link Posted: 11/18/2008 11:04:05 AM EDT
As crazy as it sounds a phone/email tree amongst a small group of us wouldnt be a bad idea
Link Posted: 11/18/2008 11:18:49 AM EDT
I've been looking into getting a ham radio and the certifications to operate it. It would be nice to be able to network if our phones went out. I used to live in GA, and a neighborhood I lived in (as well as a few surrounding) were demolished by a tornado. We had no form of communication or information gathering for days. We were blocked in, the roads were covered with trees and the area was declared a national disaster area. It happens.
Link Posted: 11/18/2008 11:31:07 AM EDT
I've been thinking about a Ham radio up at my cabin... I've got to be honest though, I know nothing about them.
Link Posted: 11/18/2008 11:56:00 AM EDT
My question would be in the event of a big quake would the phone/email lines be out? I assume the cell towers would be down or jammed.

For any members that are fairly close together you could always go in together on a pair of walkies with chargers or something. Not sure of the range on most; the cheap Motorolas that I have are great for across a lake or something (5 mile range) but are line of sight for the most part.
Link Posted: 11/19/2008 10:48:51 AM EDT
Comms infrastructure would be doomed.

Immediately after the earthquake, every single human in Anchorage would be on their cell phone, completely jamming the entire system. Those parts of the wireline network that survived would be jammed, too. Switches run on a probability that only a percentage of the total phone-using population will be on the system at any given time. Once a quake hits, everyone will be on the phone to jibber-jabber about "Did you feel that, are you okay, can we order pizza tonight, etc." Oh, and the calls to emergency services.

Another point is, that these systems are powered by electricity, which would go down after a severe quake. Anchorage's power is run off natural gas powered turbines that run generators. Remember, gas fields, gathering and distribution centers, pipelines, etc., all are affected when the earth moves in a big way. Not to mention the power plants themselves and the distribution lines that run across Anchorage and even from the Beluga power plant to Anchorage and the intertie.

Cell towers can/will be knocked out. Fiber optic metropolitan area networks will be affected if there are big movements in the ground. This goes for the fiber optic networks that run between Alaska's major cities as well as between Alaska and the Lower 48.

Most of the comms and power companies have employees who will want to first deal with their own homes and families first before rushing out and fixing your power, light and phone. All those truth-and-beauty IBEW image ads will be thrown out the window –– they're just for helping during contract negotiations and union-organizing attempts anyway.

I have talked over the years to people who were here in 1964. Alaskans were hardier, more independent and more prepared folks back then. Most Anchoragites are sadly, even woefully, under or non-prepared. If you've been bragging to your friends, neighbors and co-workers about how well prepared you are and how much stuff you have stockpiled, be prepared to either help them or fight them off –– and all the people they have told, too.

Don't forget that all your preparations could be for naught if your home is destroyed in the initial quake or in a fire caused by quake damage. Backup plans and locations are pretty important. So is the means to get to that back-up location.
Link Posted: 11/19/2008 12:20:25 PM EDT
Incidents in Alaska won't be the big problem. Emergency services from the L48 will come before the home stockpiles (for those that planned ahead) run out.

The real concern is something that takes down the L48 and Alaska at the same time. The most easily imagined is a pandemic.

I worked pandemic related business continuity planning at a previous employer and it was clear that AK would be on it's own for quite a long time. L48 resources would be tied up in the L48 and AK resources would not be able to support a worst case scenario.

Something to think about....

Matt

(The funny thing about this company's plan was that it assumed that people would still come to work. Let's see, I go to work and risk catching a disease that I might bring home and wipe out my family. Yeah right.....)
Link Posted: 11/19/2008 12:25:19 PM EDT
My how plan revolves around my ability to leave town and drive 115 miles north on the parks...
Link Posted: 11/19/2008 12:58:15 PM EDT
Originally Posted By doorgunner84:
My how plan revolves around my ability to leave town and drive 115 miles north on the parks...


300,000 other Peole will be heading that way. Good luck getting out of town.
Oh, so you have a plan B and that is driving south.
Hey there's another 300,000 heading that way for plan A with B being heading north out of town.

WE are truly F'ed living in the Bowl if we need to GTFOD.

Link Posted: 11/19/2008 1:00:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/19/2008 1:20:42 PM EDT by doorgunner84]
Originally Posted By Ripak:
Originally Posted By doorgunner84:
My how plan revolves around my ability to leave town and drive 115 miles north on the parks...


300,000 other Peole will be heading that way. Good luck getting out of town.
Oh, so you have a plan B and that is driving south.
Hey there's another 300,000 heading that way for plan A with B being heading north out of town.

WE are truly F'ed living in the Bowl if we need to GTFOD.



Sounds like tourist season...

Seriously though... If I couldn't get out of town I guess plan be would be taking my family to Kulis. It may not be comfortable, but it would be secure and probably have power and heat. I'd probably have to report to work anyway... this way I'd know where they're at and know they'd be safe while I was doing whatever they'd be having us do. Not sure how they'd employ our helicopters. Our PJ's would be out in town getting people out of rubble, we'd probably be doing medevac around town (like during Ike and Gustav).
Link Posted: 11/19/2008 1:00:53 PM EDT
Originally Posted By mwarnick1:
Incidents in Alaska won't be the big problem. Emergency services from the L48 will come before the home stockpiles (for those that planned ahead) run out.

The real concern is something that takes down the L48 and Alaska at the same time. The most easily imagined is a pandemic.

I worked pandemic related business continuity planning at a previous employer and it was clear that AK would be on it's own for quite a long time. L48 resources would be tied up in the L48 and AK resources would not be able to support a worst case scenario.

Something to think about....

Matt

(The funny thing about this company's plan was that it assumed that people would still come to work. Let's see, I go to work and risk catching a disease that I might bring home and wipe out my family. Yeah right.....)


Matt: I worked on this one, too. I continually raised the BS flag on people coming to work during a pandemic. All the hand sanitizers and face masks in the world won't override panic.

Link Posted: 11/19/2008 1:08:43 PM EDT
Now this conversation is going more towards reality VS the red dawn wet dream that so many have.
Link Posted: 11/19/2008 1:27:48 PM EDT
Originally Posted By MGNiko:
Now this conversation is going more towards reality VS the red dawn wet dream that so many have.



AVENGE MEEEEEEEE!


Link Posted: 11/19/2008 1:35:22 PM EDT
"Matt: I worked on this one, too. I continually raised the BS flag on people coming to work during a pandemic. All the hand sanitizers and face masks in the world won't override panic. "

Did you have the same luck I had in raising the flag? All I got were blank stares and looks of confusion. I gave up after awhile and realized that the company just wanted to say they had a plan –– not that it would actually work.

In a situation like that the money's not worth the risk of becoming dead.

So how long after a disaster happens would EVERY moose in the bowl be shot and hung in someone's garage as an alternate food source?
Link Posted: 11/19/2008 2:07:05 PM EDT
Originally Posted By mwarnick1:


So how long after a disaster happens would EVERY moose in the bowl be shot and hung in someone's garage as an alternate food source?


These guys from yesterday would be lunch!

Link Posted: 11/19/2008 2:10:57 PM EDT
Originally Posted By mwarnick1:
"Matt: I worked on this one, too. I continually raised the BS flag on people coming to work during a pandemic. All the hand sanitizers and face masks in the world won't override panic. "

Did you have the same luck I had in raising the flag? All I got were blank stares and looks of confusion. I gave up after awhile and realized that the company just wanted to say they had a plan –– not that it would actually work.

In a situation like that the money's not worth the risk of becoming dead.

So how long after a disaster happens would EVERY moose in the bowl be shot and hung in someone's garage as an alternate food source?


We talked to some of the same people . . . I got agreement from quite a few on back room discussions, but at the table, there were only looks.

I'd give all the moose in the bowl a week. Stray dogs a month. Fish & Game Enforcement officers a day or two at best . . .
Link Posted: 11/19/2008 2:19:50 PM EDT
Yep and those of us that live on the boarder of "questionable" neighborhoods get to pick off the bangers when they get hungry. I suppose using logical thinking if there is no supply from the L48 and people are hungry.....they're bound to do anything. That's when defensive arms come into play & it's tough to do with you, your wife, and a baby

Any of you scenario planning guys have discussions about what the vastly underprepared population of Anchorage will do when the 72hrs of food is gone from the shelves at the local Carrs store?
Link Posted: 11/19/2008 2:47:13 PM EDT
Originally Posted By MGNiko:Any of you scenario planning guys have discussions about what the vastly underprepared population of Anchorage will do when the 72hrs of food is gone from the shelves at the local Carrs store?



Depends on the time of year. In the winter, people will panic and possibly even riot (until the cold trumps their hunger), maybe descend on Ft. Rich for help. During the summer, it would be more subdued and more people will move towards the mountains, out into the valley or towards the Kenai. Combat fishing would take on an entirely new meaning if that many people were to displace south. Either way, I think if you're buggin out, the first 72 hours would be the ticket, after that, things will start to lock down; gas running out, roads jammed, civil disorder. People who don't prepare for disaster will quickly covet the supplies of those who did.

Emergency services would be pushed to the limits of their capabilities. National Guard would be called in...

...this is a worst case scenario we're talking about of course. An isolated incident, as mentioned above, would see help from the L48.

Link Posted: 11/19/2008 7:58:20 PM EDT
Originally Posted By doorgunner84:
My how plan revolves around my ability to leave town and drive 115 miles north on the parks...


North?

Fuck that, I am heading to the coast...just about any coast not in Cook Inlet. Give me an intertidal zone and I can eat well for a long time.

CB radios would be good. From Here in Kenai I can reach Anchorage and probably run a relay too points south if I had my old Base set up. I used to talk to Wasilla and to KEnai all the time from a base I had in South Anchorage. When the conditions wereright I talked all over the world. Australia, the states, Point Hope.

For about $200 or so one could be set up with a decent Mobile radio and a 12v car battery to run it nigh indefinitely on a home base. Use a hacked radio to run freqs outside of the normal band during emergencies.

Use the CB for long range comms and the frs radios for local.

For disaster service it might also be a good idea to run a Marine VHF rig. USCG in Kodiak had listening posts everywhere and can hear a mouse fart on a walkie talkie in Bristol Bay. Having a means to be in comm with them would be good too.
Link Posted: 11/19/2008 11:51:23 PM EDT
Originally Posted By yekimak:

North?



It's where my cabin is... I know there's heat and enough to eat to last a while.
~Dg84

Link Posted: 11/20/2008 6:53:16 AM EDT
"Stray dogs a month. Fish & Game Enforcement officers a day or two at best "

Now this is just dang funny!

"That's when defensive arms come into play & it's tough to do with you, your wife, and a baby"

That's the problem –– you have to sleep at some point....

"Combat fishing would take on an entirely new meaning"

I don't think the fish would ever make it up the river. Someone would quickly set up a net across the entire mouth of the river. It would get 'interesting' at that point.
Link Posted: 11/20/2008 12:08:20 PM EDT
I don't know exactly who is in it or where it's based, but I know there is already an organized group called the Alaskan Defense Force, then there is CAP, and probably some more smaller groups. Of course people may not want to join such existing groups due to present members and policies/doctrines.
Link Posted: 11/20/2008 12:56:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/20/2008 12:57:21 PM EDT by Ripak]
Communications, is what we will need if we are to interact with each other in times of stress.
I like the idea of CB based communications for most of us.
I know we have a few HAMs out there that could help with relaying information.

~R

Link Posted: 11/20/2008 4:07:46 PM EDT
Doorgunner and I have the same plan I think although mine just has heat at the moment still gotta get food taken care of

really I need a whole different cabin my father in law built the current one 20 some odd years ago and it suffers from serious neglect not to mention I had to evict some undesirables that left the place in a condition that had me contemplating a scorched earth policy in regards to the cabin. hopefully I will have time to get it fixed up this winter so that I can take my wife and 17month old son out to it.

CB would probably be best for comms I know nothing about ham
Link Posted: 11/20/2008 4:29:59 PM EDT
i was thinking a sort of group for emergencies related to the looming threat of eroded rights and liberties. just to have a small group of locals who could be trusted and low-key. the slow loss of the amendments 10, 4, and 2 (off the top of my head) is disturbing to me. i just though i would try to set up contact with people who felt the same. i thought this might be a good place to check.

regardless i do think communication for any emergency is a very good idea, but likewise i am not going head to the hills. i would camp out with what i have. i have a cb in my truck and a hand-held marine VHF those would be primary communication for me.
Link Posted: 11/20/2008 4:41:25 PM EDT
Yep I unfortunately had to give up my cabin on Crooked lake 2 years back But I also came to the conclusion that if you weren't out immediately upon anything bad going on you most likely wouldn't make it. With our extremely limited escape routes from the bowl a few checkpoints and you're not going anywhere. Likewise a few major accidents and you're stuck too. I'm a hunker in place guy; wish I could be more mobile just in case but at the end of the day all my supplies are here....hope the house doesn't burn down!
Link Posted: 11/20/2008 11:00:01 PM EDT
Kean?
Link Posted: 11/21/2008 12:53:45 AM EDT
Originally Posted By viper5243:
Kean?
Small town huh?



Link Posted: 11/21/2008 6:05:35 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Blademan:
Originally Posted By viper5243:
Kean?
Small town huh?





Just a little
Link Posted: 11/21/2008 6:41:30 AM EDT
"the slow loss of the amendments 10, 4, and 2 (off the top of my head) is disturbing to me. i just though i would try to set up contact with people who felt the same."

this is a double-edged sword.

pro: it's good to have friends that have similar political views and will support each other

con: a group of friends with similar political views with guns is easily called a 'militia' by those who don't like their views and then (in the 'Red Dawn' or similar scenario) they'd be the first group the SF guys would hit.

thoughts?

matt

Link Posted: 11/21/2008 7:05:22 AM EDT
Originally Posted By mwarnick1:
"the slow loss of the amendments 10, 4, and 2 (off the top of my head) is disturbing to me. i just though i would try to set up contact with people who felt the same."

this is a double-edged sword.

pro: it's good to have friends that have similar political views and will support each other

con: a group of friends with similar political views with guns is easily called a 'militia' by those who don't like their views and then (in the 'Red Dawn' or similar scenario) they'd be the first group the SF guys would hit.

thoughts?

matt



What is the first rule of Fight Club?
Link Posted: 11/21/2008 8:29:27 AM EDT
Originally Posted By mwarnick1:
"the slow loss of the amendments 10, 4, and 2 (off the top of my head) is disturbing to me. i just though i would try to set up contact with people who felt the same."

this is a double-edged sword.

pro: it's good to have friends that have similar political views and will support each other

con: a group of friends with similar political views with guns is easily called a 'militia' by those who don't like their views and then (in the 'Red Dawn' or similar scenario) they'd be the first group the SF guys would hit.

thoughts?

matt


Wrong. I think you'd be more likely to find a friend in the SF community.
Link Posted: 11/21/2008 8:52:12 AM EDT
Originally Posted By yekimak:
Originally Posted By mwarnick1:
"the slow loss of the amendments 10, 4, and 2 (off the top of my head) is disturbing to me. i just though i would try to set up contact with people who felt the same."

this is a double-edged sword.

pro: it's good to have friends that have similar political views and will support each other

con: a group of friends with similar political views with guns is easily called a 'militia' by those who don't like their views and then (in the 'Red Dawn' or similar scenario) they'd be the first group the SF guys would hit.

thoughts?

matt



What is the first rule of Fight Club?


precisely
Link Posted: 11/21/2008 9:39:08 AM EDT
"Wrong. I think you'd be more likely to find a friend in the SF community."

Maybe I'm just paranoid.

The pre-raid information would be controlled and given to the door-kickers. The door-kickers might be told that a bunch of wacko militia-members on the terrorst watch list are abusing their underage daughters while cooking meth and planning a revolt.

Governments have shown that they're willing to paint the picture necessary to accomplish their goals

I guess what I was getting at is the same thing that was mentioned. Flying under the radar is the place to be.

Matt
Link Posted: 11/21/2008 9:55:41 AM EDT
kicking down doors, especially by teams in that community, involves a lot more intelligence than just getting told, "bad guys in there, shoot to kill." This is starting to sound like some kind of Tom Clancey novel or something. Don't be so paranoid, you'll get an ulcer.
Link Posted: 11/21/2008 10:07:32 AM EDT
It's impossible to tell tone from email/internet posts but just to clarify - no worries (or tinfoil hats) here.

Matt
Link Posted: 11/21/2008 10:22:49 AM EDT
Originally Posted By mwarnick1:
It's impossible to tell tone from email/internet posts but just to clarify - no worries (or tinfoil hats) here.

Matt



Sorry, I should have added one of these or one of these

I like to think about this kind of stuff too, but a SF-ODA is one of the last things I would worry about. I'm on a LRS team, and like SF, we play a big role in planning out all of our team missions. Whether or not they are approved is another story, but we collect intel and act on it in a way that we think makes sense. There's a certain level of autonomy in the Special Operations community. Though LRS does not fall under SOCOM, our missions and their subsequent execution are not all that unlike one another. There are certainly differences, like ours not being a direct action unit, but as far as mission conception and execution, we follow very similar models.

Being that anybody I've ever met from the SF community is a huge supporter of the 2nd, I don't think they'd like the idea of violating posse comitatus to take out "rebel gun owners" that are just trying to protect themselves in the event of some socio-political-economic-environmental disaster scenario. If it came down to "zombie-invasion" or mad-max reality, I think they'd more than likely use their talents as force multipliers.

That's my .02
Link Posted: 11/21/2008 2:18:27 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Conspiro-Agnew:
Originally Posted By mwarnick1:
It's impossible to tell tone from email/internet posts but just to clarify - no worries (or tinfoil hats) here.

Matt



Sorry, I should have added one of these or one of these

I like to think about this kind of stuff too, but a SF-ODA is one of the last things I would worry about. I'm on a LRS team, and like SF, we play a big role in planning out all of our team missions. Whether or not they are approved is another story, but we collect intel and act on it in a way that we think makes sense. There's a certain level of autonomy in the Special Operations community. Though LRS does not fall under SOCOM, our missions and their subsequent execution are not all that unlike one another. There are certainly differences, like ours not being a direct action unit, but as far as mission conception and execution, we follow very similar models.

Being that anybody I've ever met from the SF community is a huge supporter of the 2nd, I don't think they'd like the idea of violating posse comitatus to take out "rebel gun owners" that are just trying to protect themselves in the event of some socio-political-economic-environmental disaster scenario. If it came down to "zombie-invasion" or mad-max reality, I think they'd more than likely use their talents as force multipliers.

That's my .02
Well, I guess we'll see when the next Waco happens. It's all about perception among those who are told to " enforce the law". If those told to enforce the law truly believe they are doing the right thing, or even what is necessary do to the circumstances, they have shown a pattern of complying with orders. I'm sure everyone can think of an example. What about the 86 machine gun ban. I'm sure most here would agree that it is unconstitutional. Public perception however as a whole is that it is a legit ban and besides, it's "for the children". I don't see law enforcement questioning the validity of their orders regarding this.

It's all about the event. Unfortunately, more of them are coming. I do hope that you are correct when it happens.

Link Posted: 11/21/2008 10:17:12 PM EDT
Guess we'll see eventually, the way things are heading. I, of course, would not participate in any kind of gun grab.
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