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Posted: 6/11/2009 5:03:33 PM EST
I posted this orginally in GD; and some of the responses said to post it here as well. Any help would be much appreciated.
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=885560

I bought and paid for 25 Pmags back on March 20th from a seller named ShootingConcepts, his real name is William "Will" Case and he is located in Lake of the Hills Illinois. It was understood on the auction listing that:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=125259283

(from Shooting Concepts) This is a pre-order auction for one lot of 25 black Magpul pmags with window in black. I am selling at below current prices so reserve yours now at a discount. I am receiving shipments on a regular basis and should be able to ship within a few weeks of ordering. I am a stocking Magpul and CAA dealer. I prefer USPS Money Order. I accept alertpay for +2.5% and also credit cards through alertpay for +5% more (actual alertpay fees). Alertpay.com is a gun friendly secure online pay site. I am now NO LONGER ABLE to accept Paypal as they have closed my account for policy violation since someone did NOT use DISCREET paypal while paying for an auction. I do give discounts for military and law enforcement. Please email me for details.
So I used a USPS money order ($442.95) and paid for this auction immediately by mailing money order from Texas to him in IL. I've emailed him several times, and left actual messages for him on the number provided by GunBroker too. He's sent me one email saying that he would mail them once he got them. And then no replies to my other emails ever.

On his voicemail message, it says he works for a company called Crawford and Company; and a few weeks ago, I somehow googled it, or found it on his now turned off website (shootingconcepts.com) and called him up.

He said that the black clear window Pmags aren't in yet (which is understandable), and said he was sorry but hadn't checked his email in over a month (so he hadn't seen my 3+ demand emails). But he asked if I would like another color Pmag and I said any color is fine - just get them shipped off to me ASAP (over 2.5 months at this point) or refund me my money. He said he would take care of it and this conversation was on May 27th.

So here I am two-weeks later with zero communication from this guy and I'm out almost $450. GunBroker can't do shit apparently because the 2-month window has passed.

What are my options? Can I file a fraud complaint with the USPS, my Texas Attorney General or Illinois A.G.; does anyone have any experience with this or know of other options/methods/etc? Any help would be much appreciated.

Link Posted: 6/11/2009 5:51:40 PM EST
That sucks. I hope someone here can help ya out. I'm not in LE or from that area. Good luck.
Link Posted: 6/11/2009 7:07:55 PM EST
Contact LITH PD, they are relatively slow other than running radar. If I go out to visit my sister in the near future I can try to make a personal visit, however I don't know when that would be.
Link Posted: 6/11/2009 10:10:14 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/11/2009 10:12:43 PM EST by Lion_of_Lincoln]
Originally Posted By LIINTLICKR:
I posted this orginally in GD; and some of the responses said to post it here as well. Any help would be much appreciated.
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=885560

I bought and paid for 25 Pmags back on March 20th from a seller named ShootingConcepts, his real name is William "Will" Case and he is located in Lake of the Hills Illinois. It was understood on the auction listing that:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=125259283

(from Shooting Concepts) This is a pre-order auction for one lot of 25 black Magpul pmags with window in black. I am selling at below current prices so reserve yours now at a discount. I am receiving shipments on a regular basis and should be able to ship within a few weeks of ordering. I am a stocking Magpul and CAA dealer. I prefer USPS Money Order. I accept alertpay for +2.5% and also credit cards through alertpay for +5% more (actual alertpay fees). Alertpay.com is a gun friendly secure online pay site. I am now NO LONGER ABLE to accept Paypal as they have closed my account for policy violation since someone did NOT use DISCREET paypal while paying for an auction. I do give discounts for military and law enforcement. Please email me for details.
So I used a USPS money order ($442.95) and paid for this auction immediately by mailing money order from Texas to him in IL. I've emailed him several times, and left actual messages for him on the number provided by GunBroker too. He's sent me one email saying that he would mail them once he got them. And then no replies to my other emails ever.

On his voicemail message, it says he works for a company called Crawford and Company; and a few weeks ago, I somehow googled it, or found it on his now turned off website (shootingconcepts.com) and called him up.

He said that the black clear window Pmags aren't in yet (which is understandable), and said he was sorry but hadn't checked his email in over a month (so he hadn't seen my 3+ demand emails). But he asked if I would like another color Pmag and I said any color is fine - just get them shipped off to me ASAP (over 2.5 months at this point) or refund me my money. He said he would take care of it and this conversation was on May 27th.

So here I am two-weeks later with zero communication from this guy and I'm out almost $450. GunBroker can't do shit apparently because the 2-month window has passed.

What are my options? Can I file a fraud complaint with the USPS, my Texas Attorney General or Illinois A.G.; does anyone have any experience with this or know of other options/methods/etc? Any help would be much appreciated.



I would notify the seller first that you intend to file a complaint with the USPS. Definitely notify USPS. If I were you I'd take a refund rather than risk wasting any more time with him. Pmags can now be gotten faster for cheap from someone more reputable.

Give the Lake In The Hills Police Department a ring tomorrow:

Police Department
1115 Crystal Lake Road
Lake in the Hills, IL 60156
Emergency: 911
Non-emergency: 847-658-5676
Fax: 847-658-7908


And give the McHenry County Sheriff's Office a call too:

McHenry Co. Sheriff, Keith Nygren
2200 North Seminary Ave.
Woodstock, IL 60098
Phone: 815-338-2144
Fax: 815-338-9285


I'm looking over the seller's feedback, and it looks like you aren't the only one to have had this problem with him:

S***1 A+(46) 03/31/2009 01:22 PM 122050451 Seller
C: It took over two months to get the mags. Description stated, pre-order should have then in the first part of Feb. The item was as I expected.


and

f***t A+(9) 03/30/2009 09:09 PM 122568557 Seller
A+: It took a little longer than advertised but this was not his fault. Magpul is behind and Will answered my emails whenever I bugged him. I would buy from him again.
Link Posted: 6/12/2009 4:56:14 AM EST
There are quite a few members here who live in that area, me included. I don't recognize his name or his business name. Maybe someone else will and can offer advice. I hope it ends well for you even though it has been a long time.

-sno
Link Posted: 6/12/2009 5:07:43 AM EST
You placed a "pre order". Maybe they aren't in stock yet. So then what's your beef?
I've had stuff on order from Stag/CMT since Nov/Dec of '08. I was told 4-6 months, do I have a bitch?
I don't have presales but I can see where someone would based on something they're told from a manufacturer or distributor.
What if he gets them in next week and ships them ASAP?

I agree though that if you asked for a refund you should get it. He probably doesn't have the money to refund to you.

Link Posted: 6/12/2009 6:33:24 AM EST
Originally Posted By oneraggedhole:
You placed a "pre order". Maybe they aren't in stock yet. So then what's your beef?
I've had stuff on order from Stag/CMT since Nov/Dec of '08. I was told 4-6 months, do I have a bitch?
I don't have presales but I can see where someone would based on something they're told from a manufacturer or distributor.
What if he gets them in next week and ships them ASAP?

I agree though that if you asked for a refund you should get it. He probably doesn't have the money to refund to you.



Looks like you posted this in the GD thread. So, I'll copy-n-paste my response here too.

You were told 4-6 months, and expected it to be that long at least. This guy writes in the auction listing "I am receiving shipments on a regular basis and should be able to ship within a few weeks of ordering."

Read my post. Your example does not equal mine.
Link Posted: 6/12/2009 6:34:32 AM EST
Originally Posted By Lion_of_Lincoln:
Originally Posted By LIINTLICKR:
I posted this orginally in GD; and some of the responses said to post it here as well. Any help would be much appreciated.
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=885560

I bought and paid for 25 Pmags back on March 20th from a seller named ShootingConcepts, his real name is William "Will" Case and he is located in Lake of the Hills Illinois. It was understood on the auction listing that:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=125259283

(from Shooting Concepts) This is a pre-order auction for one lot of 25 black Magpul pmags with window in black. I am selling at below current prices so reserve yours now at a discount. I am receiving shipments on a regular basis and should be able to ship within a few weeks of ordering. I am a stocking Magpul and CAA dealer. I prefer USPS Money Order. I accept alertpay for +2.5% and also credit cards through alertpay for +5% more (actual alertpay fees). Alertpay.com is a gun friendly secure online pay site. I am now NO LONGER ABLE to accept Paypal as they have closed my account for policy violation since someone did NOT use DISCREET paypal while paying for an auction. I do give discounts for military and law enforcement. Please email me for details.
So I used a USPS money order ($442.95) and paid for this auction immediately by mailing money order from Texas to him in IL. I've emailed him several times, and left actual messages for him on the number provided by GunBroker too. He's sent me one email saying that he would mail them once he got them. And then no replies to my other emails ever.

On his voicemail message, it says he works for a company called Crawford and Company; and a few weeks ago, I somehow googled it, or found it on his now turned off website (shootingconcepts.com) and called him up.

He said that the black clear window Pmags aren't in yet (which is understandable), and said he was sorry but hadn't checked his email in over a month (so he hadn't seen my 3+ demand emails). But he asked if I would like another color Pmag and I said any color is fine - just get them shipped off to me ASAP (over 2.5 months at this point) or refund me my money. He said he would take care of it and this conversation was on May 27th.

So here I am two-weeks later with zero communication from this guy and I'm out almost $450. GunBroker can't do shit apparently because the 2-month window has passed.

What are my options? Can I file a fraud complaint with the USPS, my Texas Attorney General or Illinois A.G.; does anyone have any experience with this or know of other options/methods/etc? Any help would be much appreciated.



I would notify the seller first that you intend to file a complaint with the USPS. Definitely notify USPS. If I were you I'd take a refund rather than risk wasting any more time with him. Pmags can now be gotten faster for cheap from someone more reputable.

Give the Lake In The Hills Police Department a ring tomorrow:

Police Department
1115 Crystal Lake Road
Lake in the Hills, IL 60156
Emergency: 911
Non-emergency: 847-658-5676
Fax: 847-658-7908


And give the McHenry County Sheriff's Office a call too:

McHenry Co. Sheriff, Keith Nygren
2200 North Seminary Ave.
Woodstock, IL 60098
Phone: 815-338-2144
Fax: 815-338-9285


I'm looking over the seller's feedback, and it looks like you aren't the only one to have had this problem with him:

S***1 A+(46) 03/31/2009 01:22 PM 122050451 Seller
C: It took over two months to get the mags. Description stated, pre-order should have then in the first part of Feb. The item was as I expected.


and

f***t A+(9) 03/30/2009 09:09 PM 122568557 Seller
A+: It took a little longer than advertised but this was not his fault. Magpul is behind and Will answered my emails whenever I bugged him. I would buy from him again.


Thank you very much Lion!! Will do, and I'll report back what I find out.
Link Posted: 6/12/2009 6:44:27 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/12/2009 6:45:52 AM EST by Mash67]
Well your purchase is from March. Google cache has his house for sale in march which was also his business address:: Listed here For that area I think that is at or near foreclosure price and "Selling as-is. Tax protation 100%. No survey and no sellers disclosures. Preapproval or proof of funds with offers." doesn't that usually mean foreclosure? Not sure. The listing is now down as is his website and LITH Chamber of Commerce reported unable to contact "Shooting Concepts" business which was in the new business mentoring program. Thinking he may be gone gone gone, although I hope not for you.... Good Luck and I hope it works out.....
Link Posted: 6/12/2009 7:33:42 AM EST
Originally Posted By LIINTLICKR:
Originally Posted By oneraggedhole:
You placed a "pre order". Maybe they aren't in stock yet. So then what's your beef?
I've had stuff on order from Stag/CMT since Nov/Dec of '08. I was told 4-6 months, do I have a bitch?
I don't have presales but I can see where someone would based on something they're told from a manufacturer or distributor.
What if he gets them in next week and ships them ASAP?

I agree though that if you asked for a refund you should get it. He probably doesn't have the money to refund to you.



Looks like you posted this in the GD thread. So, I'll copy-n-paste my response here too.

You were told 4-6 months, and expected it to be that long at least. This guy writes in the auction listing "I am receiving shipments on a regular basis and should be able to ship within a few weeks of ordering."

Yes, it's apples and oranges but shipments get delayed all the time, production demands change and overenthusiastic sales reps give "pumped up" information.
I'm not defending the guy. If you were doing business with me and asked for your money back you'd get it. However, I was receiving orders on a regular basis from LMT and then all of the sudden delivery times went to 6+ months and then to no delivery quote at all.
I hope you get your money back or at least your mags.


Read my post. Your example does not equal mine.


Link Posted: 6/12/2009 7:34:46 AM EST
Originally Posted By Mash67:
Well your purchase is from March. Google cache has his house for sale in march which was also his business address:: Listed here For that area I think that is at or near foreclosure price and "Selling as-is. Tax protation 100%. No survey and no sellers disclosures. Preapproval or proof of funds with offers." doesn't that usually mean foreclosure? Not sure. The listing is now down as is his website and LITH Chamber of Commerce reported unable to contact "Shooting Concepts" business which was in the new business mentoring program. Thinking he may be gone gone gone, although I hope not for you.... Good Luck and I hope it works out.....


That sucks! I would keep after the guy!
Link Posted: 6/12/2009 7:58:58 AM EST
Originally Posted By Mash67:
Well your purchase is from March. Google cache has his house for sale in march which was also his business address:: Listed here For that area I think that is at or near foreclosure price and "Selling as-is. Tax protation 100%. No survey and no sellers disclosures. Preapproval or proof of funds with offers." doesn't that usually mean foreclosure? Not sure. The listing is now down as is his website and LITH Chamber of Commerce reported unable to contact "Shooting Concepts" business which was in the new business mentoring program. Thinking he may be gone gone gone, although I hope not for you.... Good Luck and I hope it works out.....


Are you in the CIA or something. Holy Sh1t that's some good intel.

Thanks!
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 7:13:49 AM EST
Any update? What do you need?

Bucky145
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 8:44:24 AM EST
Originally Posted By Mash67:
Well your purchase is from March. Google cache has his house for sale in march which was also his business address:: Listed here For that area I think that is at or near foreclosure price and "Selling as-is. Tax protation 100%. No survey and no sellers disclosures. Preapproval or proof of funds with offers." doesn't that usually mean foreclosure? Not sure. The listing is now down as is his website and LITH Chamber of Commerce reported unable to contact "Shooting Concepts" business which was in the new business mentoring program. Thinking he may be gone gone gone, although I hope not for you.... Good Luck and I hope it works out.....


I wanna be your bud!
Link Posted: 6/15/2009 5:59:00 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/15/2009 5:59:45 AM EST by rebel13]
Not listed as under foreclosure but one by it is:

Link
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