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Posted: 8/13/2004 10:03:50 AM EST
Since NY laws mimic the Federal laws, but are permanent, does this mean that when the ban sunsets, that if I want a collapsible stocked AR with a flash supressor that I'll have to buy one that is 10 years old???? BTW I DID do a search, but it only goes back to July.
Link Posted: 8/13/2004 11:40:13 AM EST
Yes, you'll have to buy one that was made (and complete at some time) prior to 9/14/94. Same as the fed ban now.
Link Posted: 8/13/2004 1:01:40 PM EST
Man, this sucks. Although the older stuff is probably just as good as new, it isn't new. Not only that, but you really can't take the risk of buying new in another border state and bringing it home because if a cop should get a wild hair up his ass and check your serial number, you're waist deep in a cesspool and upside down!
Link Posted: 8/13/2004 1:37:49 PM EST
Link Posted: 8/13/2004 2:06:46 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/13/2004 2:07:19 PM EST by rkbar15]

Originally Posted By gunner-1:
Man, this sucks. Although the older stuff is probably just as good as new, it isn't new. Not only that, but you really can't take the risk of buying new in another border state and bringing it home because if a cop should get a wild hair up his ass and check your serial number, you're waist deep in a cesspool and upside down!



It makes no difference if you buy the rifle in NY or have it shipped to NY if you can verify that it is truly a preban. There are plenty of Colt NIB prebans available if you are willing to pay a premium for one of them. All preban Colts are easily verified as preban by a phone call to Colt customer service. For a fee they will also document the rifle in the configuration it left the factory in. If you buy a Colt AR-15 or one of the other "named" assault weapons in the ban you should be on safe ground as well.

The real question is do you really need a flash suppressor, grenade launcher, bayo lug or collapsible stock and are you willing to pay a premium for them?
Link Posted: 8/13/2004 2:18:02 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/13/2004 2:20:41 PM EST by gunner-1]
This is an absolutely great idea! Give this man a Miller!! Putting the "haves" together with the "have nots" is awesome.
Link Posted: 8/13/2004 2:25:55 PM EST

Originally Posted By rkbar15:

Originally Posted By gunner-1:
Man, this sucks. Although the older stuff is probably just as good as new, it isn't new. Not only that, but you really can't take the risk of buying new in another border state and bringing it home because if a cop should get a wild hair up his ass and check your serial number, you're waist deep in a cesspool and upside down!



It makes no difference if you buy the rifle in NY or have it shipped to NY if you can verify that it is truly a preban. There are plenty of Colt NIB prebans available if you are willing to pay a premium for one of them. All preban Colts are easily verified as preban by a phone call to Colt customer service. For a fee they will also document the rifle in the configuration it left the factory in. If you buy a Colt AR-15 or one of the other "named" assault weapons in the ban you should be on safe ground as well.

The real question is do you really need a flash suppressor, grenade launcher, bayo lug or collapsible stock and are you willing to pay a premium for them?



I think the real question is if there is no ban on them, why shouldn't I be able to spend MY money on what I want? Since it's been admitted by the Feds, the AMA , even California that the ban has had no effect ( surprising since cosmetic appearence is such a deadly thing) why punish those who have done no wrong. Drinking and driving kills more people every year than guns, but booze is still legal, now isn't it?
Link Posted: 8/13/2004 3:50:21 PM EST
It's best not to use logic when dealing with NY firearm laws. It will not accomplish anything and will only make your head hurt. My advice is to move out of NY because it's NOT going to get any better and chances are it is going to get a whole lot worse within the next 10 years.
Link Posted: 8/13/2004 3:59:36 PM EST

Originally Posted By rkbar15:
It's best not to use logic when dealing with NY firearm laws. It will not accomplish anything and will only make your head hurt. My advice is to move out of NY because it's NOT going to get any better and chances are it is going to get a whole lot worse within the next 10 years.



You're right, but this is where I call home. Maybe it's time to buy some 6" pvc and do some diggin!
Link Posted: 8/15/2004 1:50:29 PM EST
Does anyone know if the NYS ban uses federal definitions or refers to the fed ban in any way? What year was it passed?

If it was passed after the federal ban, we might have a (example) 1996 cut off date for prebans. Since I'm lazy today, can someone post it if they have it?
Link Posted: 8/15/2004 2:40:37 PM EST
From the NYS DCJS press release:

ASSAULT WEAPONS BAN: Effective November 1, 2000

Since 1994, federal law has restricted the possession of assault weapons
and large capacity ammunition feeding devices. New York law, however, did
not specifically address the possession and sale of military-style weapons
or those with excessively large ammunition capacities. The provisions
contained in Chapter 189 mirror the current provisions of federal law by
defining and prohibiting activities related to a "semiautomatic assault
weapon" and a "large capacity ammunition feeding device".

The term "assault weapon" includes a designated list of federally barred
firearms, as well as semiautomatic rifles, shotguns or pistols that possess
at least two specified characteristics, such as a folding or telescoping
stock, a bayonet mount, a flash suppressor or a silencer. A specific list
of weapons manufactured on or before October 1, 1993, which are set forth
in federal law, are not banned. The term "large capacity ammunition feeding
device" means a magazine or similar device manufactured after September 13,
1994 which has the capacity to accept more than ten rounds of ammunition,
but does not include a tubular device which only accepts .22 caliber
ammunition.

The Penal Law will now include the possession of an assault weapon and the
possession of a large capacity ammunition feeding device within its
definition of the class D violent felony of criminal possession of a weapon
in the third degree. Thus, the law will now treat the illegal possession of
an unloaded assault weapon as seriously as the possession of a loaded
handgun. Moreover, because this law adds an "assault weapon" to the
definition of a "firearm," the current penalties attaching to the criminal
use of a firearm will also apply to the use of an assault weapon.



As written into the Penal Law:

Penal Law

ARTICLE 265
FIREARMS AND OTHER DANGEROUS WEAPONS

S 265.00 Definitions.

As used in this article and in article four hundred, the following
terms shall mean and include:

...............

3. "Firearm" means (a) any pistol or revolver; or (b) a shotgun having
one or more barrels less than eighteen inches in length; or (c) a rifle
having one or more barrels less than sixteen inches in length; or (d)
any weapon made from a shotgun or rifle whether by alteration,
modification, or otherwise if such weapon as altered, modified, or
otherwise has an overall length of less than twenty-six inches; or (e)
an assault weapon.
For the purpose of this subdivision the length of the
barrel on a shotgun or rifle shall be determined by measuring the
distance between the muzzle and the face of the bolt, breech, or
breechlock when closed and when the shotgun or rifle is cocked; the
overall length of a weapon made from a shotgun or rifle is the distance
between the extreme ends of the weapon measured along a line parallel to
the center line of the bore. Firearm does not include an antique
firearm.

..........

9. "Dealer in firearms" means any person, firm, partnership,
corporation or company who engages in the business of purchasing,
selling, keeping for sale, loaning, leasing, or in any manner disposing
of, any assault weapon, large capacity ammunition feeding device, pistol
or revolver.

..........

22. "Assault weapon" means (a) a semiautomatic rifle that has an
ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least two of the
following characteristics:
(i) a folding or telescoping stock;
(ii) a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of
the weapon;
(iii) a bayonet mount;
(iv) a flash suppressor or threaded barrel designed to accommodate a
flash suppressor;
(v) a grenade launcher; or
(b) a semiautomatic shotgun that has at least two of the following
characteristics:
(i) a folding or telescoping stock;
(ii) a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of
the weapon;
(iii) a fixed magazine capacity in excess of five rounds;
(iv) an ability to accept a detachable magazine; or
(c) a semiautomatic pistol that has an ability to accept a detachable
magazine and has at least two of the following characteristics:
(i) an ammunition magazine that attaches to the pistol outside of the
pistol grip;
(ii) a threaded barrel capable of accepting a barrel extender, flash
suppressor, forward handgrip, or silencer;
(iii) a shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely
encircles, the barrel and that permits the shooter to hold the firearm
with the nontrigger hand without being burned;
(iv) a manufactured weight of fifty ounces or more when the pistol is
unloaded;
(v) a semiautomatic version of an automatic rifle, shotgun or firearm;
or
(d) any of the weapons, or functioning frames or receivers of such
weapons, or copies or duplicates of such weapons, in any caliber, known
as:
(i) Norinco, Mitchell, and Poly Technologies Avtomat Kalashnikovs (all
models);
(ii) Action Arms Israeli Military Industries UZI and Galil;
(iii) Beretta Ar70 (SC-70);
(iv) Colt AR-15;
(v) Fabrique National FN/FAL, FN/LAR, and FNC;
(vi) SWD M-10, M-11, M-11/9, and M-12;
(vii) Steyr AUG;
(viii) INTRATEC TEC-9, TEC-DC9 and TEC-22; and
(ix) revolving cylinder shotguns, such as (or similar to) the Street
Sweeper and Striker 12;
(e) provided, however, that such term does not include: (i) any rifle,
shotgun or pistol that (A) is manually operated by bolt, pump, lever or
slide action; (B) has been rendered permanently inoperable; or (C) is an
antique firearm as defined in 18 U.S.C. 921(a)(16);
(ii) a semiautomatic rifle that cannot accept a detachable magazine
that holds more than five rounds of ammunition;
(iii) a semiautomatic shotgun that cannot hold more than five rounds
of ammunition in a fixed or detachable magazine;
(iv) a rifle, shotgun or pistol, or a replica or a duplicate thereof,
specified in Appendix A to section 922 of 18 U.S.C. as such weapon was
manufactured on October first, nineteen hundred ninety-three. The mere
fact that a weapon is not listed in Appendix A shall not be construed to
mean that such weapon is an assault weapon; or
(v) a semiautomatic rifle, a semiautomatic shotgun or a semiautomatic
pistol or any of the weapons defined in paragraph (d) of this
subdivision lawfully possessed prior to September fourteenth, nineteen
hundred ninety-four.
23. "Large capacity ammunition feeding device" means a magazine, belt,
drum, feed strip, or similar device, manufactured after September
thirteenth, nineteen hundred ninety-four, that has a capacity of, or
that can be readily restored or converted to accept, more than ten
rounds of ammunition; provided, however, that such term does not include
an attached tubular device designed to accept, and capable of operating
only with, .22 caliber rimfire ammunition.

Link Posted: 8/15/2004 4:18:08 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/15/2004 4:18:59 PM EST by sherm8404]

Originally Posted By rkbar15:
From the NYS DCJS press release:

ASSAULT WEAPONS BAN: Effective November 1, 2000



The term "assault weapon" includes a designated list of federally barred
firearms, as well as semiautomatic rifles, shotguns or pistols that possess
at least two specified characteristics, such as a folding or telescoping
stock, a bayonet mount, a flash suppressor or a silencer. A specific list
of weapons manufactured on or before October 1, 1993, which are set forth
in federal law, are not banned. The term "large capacity ammunition feeding
device" means a magazine or similar device manufactured after September 13,
1994 which has the capacity to accept more than ten rounds of ammunition,
but does not include a tubular device which only accepts .22 caliber
ammunition.






Sooooooo lawyer guy, does that help us? I see they cite the original fed dates in the law.
Link Posted: 8/24/2004 1:25:10 AM EST
Hello all. Could you put a pin/lock in a collapsible stock to lock into a certain postion. Would this be legal (as long as the rifle is still 26"). From what I understand with collapsible stocks is as long as they don't move they could be legal.

Link Posted: 8/24/2004 6:04:42 AM EST

Hello all. Could you put a pin/lock in a collapsible stock to lock into a certain postion. Would this be legal (as long as the rifle is still 26"). From what I understand with collapsible stocks is as long as they don't move they could be legal.



I do know in CT., you must have the collabsable stock machine pinned in 3 places, not sure if this is fed, but am curious as I am moving back to NY soon
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 5:22:43 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/7/2004 5:23:55 PM EST by hoover]
If you take out all the parts about the shotguns, pistols and antiques...I read it as you CANNOT have a post-ban AR in NY at all. We get by in 22(a) as long as we don't have anything more than a pistol grip on the AR, but as soon as you read 22(d)(iv) we look to be hosed and then you get to 22(e)(v) which seems to grandfather the pre-bans, but post-bans look to be illegal in NY no matter what config.

Please tell me how I am reading this wrong.

Below is the above law with the "extra" content removed.

22. "Assault weapon" means
(a) a semiautomatic rifle that has an
ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least two of the
following characteristics:
(i) a folding or telescoping stock;
(ii) a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of
the weapon;
(iii) a bayonet mount;
(iv) a flash suppressor or threaded barrel designed to accommodate a
flash suppressor;
(v) a grenade launcher; or

(d) any of the weapons, or functioning frames or receivers of such
weapons, or copies or duplicates of such weapons, in any caliber, known as:
(i) Norinco, Mitchell, and Poly Technologies Avtomat Kalashnikovs;
(ii) Action Arms Israeli Military Industries UZI and Galil;
(iii) Beretta Ar70 (SC-70);
(iv) Colt AR-15;
(v) Fabrique National FN/FAL, FN/LAR, and FNC;
(vi) SWD M-10, M-11, M-11/9, and M-12;
(vii) Steyr AUG;
(viii) INTRATEC TEC-9, TEC-DC9 and TEC-22; and
(ix) revolving cylinder shotguns, such as (or similar to) the Street
Sweeper and Striker 12;

(e) provided, however, that such term does not include:
(i) any rifle,shotgun or pistol that
(A) is manually operated by bolt, pump, lever or
slide action;
(B) has been rendered permanently inoperable; or
(C) is an antique firearm as defined in 18 U.S.C. 921(a)(16);
(ii) a semiautomatic rifle that cannot accept a detachable magazine
that holds more than five rounds of ammunition;
(iv) a rifle, shotgun or pistol, or a replica or a duplicate thereof,
specified in Appendix A to section 922 of 18 U.S.C. as such weapon was
manufactured on October first, nineteen hundred ninety-three. The mere
fact that a weapon is not listed in Appendix A shall not be construed to
mean that such weapon is an assault weapon; or
(v) a semiautomatic rifle, a semiautomatic shotgun or a semiautomatic
pistol or any of the weapons defined in paragraph (d) of this
subdivision lawfully possessed prior to September fourteenth, nineteen
hundred ninety-four.



Link Posted: 9/7/2004 8:57:43 PM EST

Originally Posted By ThePrisoner72:
Hello all. Could you put a pin/lock in a collapsible stock to lock into a certain postion. Would this be legal (as long as the rifle is still 26"). From what I understand with collapsible stocks is as long as they don't move they could be legal.




Yes, you sure could - however you must make sure its not immediately reversible. I'm not sure where its written as to an appropriate way of pinning (as opposed to a muzzle device covering barrel threads) - but I'm sure several suppliers of pinned telestocks could build one to your requests - to avoid any hassles on your end.
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 9:10:03 PM EST

Originally Posted By gunner-1:
Man, this sucks. Although the older stuff is probably just as good as new, it isn't new. Not only that, but you really can't take the risk of buying new in another border state and bringing it home because if a cop should get a wild hair up his ass and check your serial number, you're waist deep in a cesspool and upside down!



You can get an old lower and a new upper...

So long as you avoid Colt lowers, this will not be a problem.

And all the important parts are in the Upper.
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 9:51:23 PM EST
Fed law says the same thing...

Post bans are 'Match Targets', 'PCRs' or 'XM15s'

They are legally seen as 'different' guns...


Originally Posted By hoover:
If you take out all the parts about the shotguns, pistols and antiques...I read it as you CANNOT have a post-ban AR in NY at all. We get by in 22(a) as long as we don't have anything more than a pistol grip on the AR, but as soon as you read 22(d)(iv) we look to be hosed and then you get to 22(e)(v) which seems to grandfather the pre-bans, but post-bans look to be illegal in NY no matter what config.

Please tell me how I am reading this wrong.

Below is the above law with the "extra" content removed.

22. "Assault weapon" means
(a) a semiautomatic rifle that has an
ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least two of the
following characteristics:
(i) a folding or telescoping stock;
(ii) a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of
the weapon;
(iii) a bayonet mount;
(iv) a flash suppressor or threaded barrel designed to accommodate a
flash suppressor;
(v) a grenade launcher; or

(d) any of the weapons, or functioning frames or receivers of such
weapons, or copies or duplicates of such weapons, in any caliber, known as:
(i) Norinco, Mitchell, and Poly Technologies Avtomat Kalashnikovs;
(ii) Action Arms Israeli Military Industries UZI and Galil;
(iii) Beretta Ar70 (SC-70);
(iv) Colt AR-15;
(v) Fabrique National FN/FAL, FN/LAR, and FNC;
(vi) SWD M-10, M-11, M-11/9, and M-12;
(vii) Steyr AUG;
(viii) INTRATEC TEC-9, TEC-DC9 and TEC-22; and
(ix) revolving cylinder shotguns, such as (or similar to) the Street
Sweeper and Striker 12;

(e) provided, however, that such term does not include:
(i) any rifle,shotgun or pistol that
(A) is manually operated by bolt, pump, lever or
slide action;
(B) has been rendered permanently inoperable; or
(C) is an antique firearm as defined in 18 U.S.C. 921(a)(16);
(ii) a semiautomatic rifle that cannot accept a detachable magazine
that holds more than five rounds of ammunition;
(iv) a rifle, shotgun or pistol, or a replica or a duplicate thereof,
specified in Appendix A to section 922 of 18 U.S.C. as such weapon was
manufactured on October first, nineteen hundred ninety-three. The mere
fact that a weapon is not listed in Appendix A shall not be construed to
mean that such weapon is an assault weapon; or
(v) a semiautomatic rifle, a semiautomatic shotgun or a semiautomatic
pistol or any of the weapons defined in paragraph (d) of this
subdivision lawfully possessed prior to September fourteenth, nineteen
hundred ninety-four.




Link Posted: 9/8/2004 2:46:24 AM EST

Originally Posted By hoover:
If you take out all the parts about the shotguns, pistols and antiques...I read it as you CANNOT have a post-ban AR in NY at all. We get by in 22(a) as long as we don't have anything more than a pistol grip on the AR, but as soon as you read 22(d)(iv) we look to be hosed and then you get to 22(e)(v) which seems to grandfather the pre-bans, but post-bans look to be illegal in NY no matter what config.

Please tell me how I am reading this wrong.




Dude - The FFL dealers have tables full of Preban and Postban AKs and ARs at every Gunshow.
Link Posted: 9/8/2004 10:42:44 AM EST
When you say NY do you mean the City or the state? HAs far as I know in NYS preban will be legal
Link Posted: 9/8/2004 11:24:04 AM EST
The City of NY has its own AWB as do the cities of Albany, Rochester and Buffalo. Outside of those jurisdictions if it is legal under the current Federal AWB it is legal in NYS.
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 6:29:39 PM EST
y'all know, i just got a REALY good idea...im moving back to Colarado! fuck new york and its stupid fucking dumbass fucking laws! (there, a little cowboy attudiute fotr the son of bitches wearing suits in the state offices)
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 6:50:33 PM EST
I have some rather interesting news for all of us in NYS ( NYC included ) I sent a email out earlier this morning to ATF and got a reply back before the end of the day which was nice of them, but anyways the email i sent was in regards to gun restrictions in new york state. I told him that i was an AR15 owner and heard that NYS had its own restrictions even though the assault ban was over and asked for any information they could give me regarding this matter and the email said to contact NYPD for those of you in NYC or (NYSP) New York State Police for everyone else in NYS with any questions but as far as they know NYS dosent have any assault weapons ban it was just the federal one......so we might be in the clear after all...

See you guys at the show in cuse
Foro
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 7:20:20 PM EST
ATF is full of shit, like usual
caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/nycodes/c82/a68.html
from the definition section

22. "Assault weapon" means (a) a semiautomatic rifle that has an
ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least two of the
following characteristics:
(i) a folding or telescoping stock;
(ii) a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of
the weapon;
(iii) a bayonet mount;
(iv) a flash suppressor or threaded barrel designed to accommodate a
flash suppressor;
(v) a grenade launcher; or
(b) a semiautomatic shotgun that has at least two of the following
characteristics:
(i) a folding or telescoping stock;
(ii) a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of
the weapon;
(iii) a fixed magazine capacity in excess of five rounds;
(iv) an ability to accept a detachable magazine; or
(c) a semiautomatic pistol that has an ability to accept a detachable
magazine and has at least two of the following characteristics:
(i) an ammunition magazine that attaches to the pistol outside of the
pistol grip;
(ii) a threaded barrel capable of accepting a barrel extender, flash
suppressor, forward handgrip, or silencer;
(iii) a shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely
encircles, the barrel and that permits the shooter to hold the firearm
with the nontrigger hand without being burned;
(iv) a manufactured weight of fifty ounces or more when the pistol is
unloaded;
(v) a semiautomatic version of an automatic rifle, shotgun or firearm;
or
(d) any of the weapons, or functioning frames or receivers of such
weapons, or copies or duplicates of such weapons, in any caliber, known
as:
(i) Norinco, Mitchell, and Poly Technologies Avtomat Kalashnikovs (all
models);
(ii) Action Arms Israeli Military Industries UZI and Galil;
(iii) Beretta Ar70 (SC-70);
(iv) Colt AR-15;
(v) Fabrique National FN/FAL, FN/LAR, and FNC;
(vi) SWD M-10, M-11, M-11/9, and M-12;
(vii) Steyr AUG;
(viii) INTRATEC TEC-9, TEC-DC9 and TEC-22; and
(ix) revolving cylinder shotguns, such as (or similar to) the Street
Sweeper and Striker 12;
(e) provided, however, that such term does not include: (i) any rifle,
shotgun or pistol that (A) is manually operated by bolt, pump, lever or
slide action; (B) has been rendered permanently inoperable; or (C) is an
antique firearm as defined in 18 U.S.C. 921(a)(16);
(ii) a semiautomatic rifle that cannot accept a detachable magazine
that holds more than five rounds of ammunition;
(iii) a semiautomatic shotgun that cannot hold more than five rounds
of ammunition in a fixed or detachable magazine;
(iv) a rifle, shotgun or pistol, or a replica or a duplicate thereof,
specified in Appendix A to section 922 of 18 U.S.C. as such weapon was
manufactured on October first, nineteen hundred ninety-three. The mere
fact that a weapon is not listed in Appendix A shall not be construed to
mean that such weapon is an assault weapon; or
(v) a semiautomatic rifle, a semiautomatic shotgun or a semiautomatic
pistol or any of the weapons defined in paragraph (d) of this
subdivision lawfully possessed prior to September fourteenth, nineteen
hundred ninety-four.
23. "Large capacity ammunition feeding device" means a magazine, belt,
drum, feed strip, or similar device, manufactured after September
thirteenth, nineteen hundred ninety-four, that has a capacity of, or
that can be readily restored or converted to accept, more than ten
rounds of ammunition; provided, however, that such term does not include
an attached tubular device designed to accept, and capable of operating
only with, .22 caliber rimfire ammunition.



from farther down

S 265.02 Criminal possession of a weapon in the third degree.
A person is guilty of criminal possession of a weapon in the third
degree when:
.
.
.
(7) Such person possesses an assault weapon; or
(8) Such person possesses a large capacity ammunition feeding device.
Criminal possession of a weapon in the third degree is a class D
felony.





Originally Posted By MForo:
I have some rather interesting news for all of us in NYS ( NYC included ) I sent a email out earlier this morning to ATF and got a reply back before the end of the day which was nice of them, but anyways the email i sent was in regards to gun restrictions in new york state. I told him that i was an AR15 owner and heard that NYS had its own restrictions even though the assault ban was over and asked for any information they could give me regarding this matter and the email said to contact NYPD for those of you in NYC or (NYSP) New York State Police for everyone else in NYS with any questions but as far as they know NYS dosent have any assault weapons ban it was just the federal one......so we might be in the clear after all...

See you guys at the show in cuse
Foro

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