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Posted: 10/20/2004 7:59:29 AM EST
I was at Flag Guns in La Habra, yesterday and in comes two ATF guys who showed their IDs and asked to see the list of 50BMG gun buyers. They wrote down all the names and left. They told the gun store owner, "it's not what you think." But what the hell?!
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 8:11:33 AM EST
Think what? That the BATFE are over stepping their bounds again? Getting ready for another string of midnight raids?

Now what woulda given us that idea?

Link Posted: 10/20/2004 8:28:35 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/20/2004 8:28:57 AM EST by Aardvark]

Originally Posted By New_Pup_101:
I was at Flag Guns in La Habra, yesterday and in comes two ATF guys who showed their IDs and asked to see the list of 50BMG gun buyers. They wrote down all the names and left. They told the gun store owner, "it's not what you think." But what the hell?!


Gee, I think the BATFE wants to send them all complimentary gift boxes of .50 cal ammo, but that's just my opinion
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 8:46:40 AM EST
sounds like you CA guys should stock up on fire extinguishers.
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 8:55:17 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/20/2004 8:55:35 AM EST by longshot_va]

Originally Posted By Wipeout:
sounds like you CA guys should stock up on fire extinguishers.



and gas masks, body armor, scanner system, ...

and allot of KY if you survive long enough to be arrested.


'05 is shaping up to be an interesting year!
-LS
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 10:18:41 AM EST
AB-50 is a Kaliban law, not Federal. It would be the CA-DOJ that would be looking for .50BMG owners, not the BATF.
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 12:10:45 PM EST

Originally Posted By Lon_Moer:
AB-50 is a Kaliban law, not Federal. It would be the CA-DOJ that would be looking for .50BMG owners, not the BATF.



Nope. It was BATF guys. I thought it should be CA-DOJ too, but they were for sure ATF.
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 12:15:31 PM EST

Originally Posted By New_Pup_101:
I was at Flag Guns in La Habra, yesterday and in comes two ATF guys who showed their IDs and asked to see the list of 50BMG gun buyers. They wrote down all the names and left. They told the gun store owner, "it's not what you think." But what the hell?!



"it's not what you think?"

WTF are they planning on sending out congratulatory greeting cards?
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 12:21:23 PM EST
Obviously they're searching for someone because of the recent strings of .50bmg assassinations that inspired this ban. next thing you know they'll have moose out there with pictures of a white van...


Link Posted: 10/20/2004 12:57:30 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/20/2004 12:58:39 PM EST by MisterSuzuki]
Either that....or they're in the early process of re-classifying them DD's, much like the SS-12's, and USAS-12, etc.

.....or, some new Al Quaeda Threat that a television news casts say these weapons can target, and destroy at up to 5 mile range.......




Originally Posted By FanoftheBlackRifle:
Obviously they're searching for someone because of the recent strings of .50bmg assassinations that inspired this ban. next thing you know they'll have moose out there with pictures of a white van...



Link Posted: 10/20/2004 1:30:19 PM EST
molon labe!!!!!!!!!!


meat
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 2:16:06 PM EST
???

or something sinister afoot?
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 2:37:21 PM EST
We'll, this makes me think a couple of things:

1. I wouldn't feel safe buying a .50 knowing they are looking for people.
2. If you have already got one, be SURE to register it as they know you have it now.


Another thought I have stems from the fact that I am 20 which means I have a unique perspective... imagine you are my age. You are old enough to purchase a rifle, including the famed .50 BMG rifle. So you get one, but alas, you must be 21 to register it under AB50 I assume. What the hell does a person like me do if I'm not 21 before the regstration date? What did 18 year olds who owned ARs do when the ban was put in place? Anyone here try it?

Rayn
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 2:56:59 PM EST
Maybe they are trying to organize a group buy.
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 4:00:44 PM EST
Raynman, I am in the same boat as you. I too am 20, wanting to get a .50 but not sure if I should. I have no REAL use for it now other than target shooting, so that would make me not want to get one, but the fact that I will never be able to get one unless I get it now makes me want to get it, just in case I decide I need one in the future. Then again.....what if I can't register it?

What to do, what to do?hinking.gif
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 4:28:38 PM EST

Originally Posted By NeoWeird:
Raynman, I am in the same boat as you. I too am 20, wanting to get a .50 but not sure if I should. I have no REAL use for it now other than target shooting, so that would make me not want to get one, but the fact that I will never be able to get one unless I get it now makes me want to get it, just in case I decide I need one in the future. Then again.....what if I can't register it?

What to do, what to do?



Unless I am mistaken, according to the law, you will have until around April 2006 to register it. So you will be 21 by then. You might want to double check this info yourself though.
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 4:51:16 PM EST
Just saw a news clip that mentioned they have found holes in the bellies of aircraft "possibly made by a screwdriver."

Don't remember where, but....

-LS
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 4:53:46 PM EST
Geez, you guys are paranoid
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 5:21:58 PM EST
Paranoid? No.
Cautious? Yes.

With how ridiculous the laws are around here, the last thing I want is to add gasoline to the fire. I know I am exagerating, but still, if they can take it as far as they have, they can easily take it farther. Follow the law, give no reason for them to think you are doing anything excessive or unnecessary, and hope common sense will be restored one day. That is all I can do and hope for.
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 6:16:27 PM EST
if you want the rifle buy it. if you can legally buy it but not register it there is a problem there. i think the doj would let you register it with no problem. call the doj tell them you are 18 and legally bought the .50 bmg rifle and want to register it. i don't think that crap can hold up in court.
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 6:24:00 PM EST

Originally Posted By New_Pup_101:

I was at Flag Guns in La Habra, yesterday and in comes two ATF guys who showed their IDs and asked to see the list of 50BMG gun buyers. They wrote down all the names and left. They told the gun store owner, "it's not what you think." But what the hell?!



So you just happened to be there at the counter to overhear the conversation, and were there long enough for the store manager to pull up all the paperwork and then watched as the agents wrote down all the names... ?

I won't call BS but it kind of sounds like it...
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 6:37:54 PM EST
My buddy was there today.. he told me about it as well.. dunno what is going on. have to wait and see.
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 6:45:43 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 8:37:11 PM EST

Originally Posted By Lumpy196:
Its NOT what you think.


You are aware that ATF assists local agencies on criminal investigations, correct?



That's along the lines of what I was thinking. Some agency probably turned up a fifty somewhere and the when the ATF checked with the manufacturer found out it was sold through that store, so they were checking the records for an address and last known owner. Routine stuff.

For all you "uber cautious" people, the BATF couldn't care less about any gun law CA has, as long everyone conforms with FED law. And if they (the BATF) "were" going after fifty owners, why haven't we heard about this from any other state?
Link Posted: 10/21/2004 7:26:21 AM EST
Freaks.
Link Posted: 10/21/2004 8:14:46 AM EST

Originally Posted By Lumpy196:
Its NOT what you think.


You are aware that ATF assists local agencies on criminal investigations, correct?



What criminal investigation involving a .50 BMG are they assisting on?

Pretty sure it would have made the news, considering the media's rabid interest in portaying them as weapons of mass destruction.

Link Posted: 10/21/2004 12:54:55 PM EST

Originally Posted By Pthfndr:

Originally Posted By Lumpy196:
Its NOT what you think.


You are aware that ATF assists local agencies on criminal investigations, correct?



That's along the lines of what I was thinking. Some agency probably turned up a fifty somewhere and the when the ATF checked with the manufacturer found out it was sold through that store, so they were checking the records for an address and last known owner. Routine stuff.

For all you "uber cautious" people, the BATF couldn't care less about any gun law CA has, as long everyone conforms with FED law. And if they (the BATF) "were" going after fifty owners, why haven't we heard about this from any other state?



If a .50BMG was recovered and they're trying to trace it, my quesiton is... Why did the ATF agents ask for informaiton on ALL .50BMGs, not just one specific one or one single manufacturer?
Link Posted: 10/21/2004 2:36:15 PM EST
The registration deadline ends April 1st of 2005. But even if it was 2006, what if I was 18? I'll bet asking the DOJ, they'd let it go. I'd assume the same issue came up with 18 year olds that owned ARs.

As for what the agents were doing there? I don't know. Investigation sounds right, but it's odd they'd ask for all 50 owners. Who knows. Does anyone know of any crimes being committed in this country with 50s?

Rayn
Link Posted: 10/21/2004 4:55:07 PM EST

Originally Posted By leelaw:

Originally Posted By Pthfndr:

Originally Posted By Lumpy196:
Its NOT what you think.


You are aware that ATF assists local agencies on criminal investigations, correct?



That's along the lines of what I was thinking. Some agency probably turned up a fifty somewhere and the when the ATF checked with the manufacturer found out it was sold through that store, so they were checking the records for an address and last known owner. Routine stuff.

For all you "uber cautious" people, the BATF couldn't care less about any gun law CA has, as long everyone conforms with FED law. And if they (the BATF) "were" going after fifty owners, why haven't we heard about this from any other state?



If a .50BMG was recovered and they're trying to trace it, my quesiton is... Why did the ATF agents ask for informaiton on ALL .50BMGs, not just one specific one or one single manufacturer?



Well it's certainly possible that the information passed on from the gun store people to the customers that were there was not exactly what the BATF asked for. In other words, maybe they asked for the records of all AR50 or Barrett 99 owners to find the person they next need to talk with. I'm sure you know how information can get a bit distorted as it passes from mouth to the next ear.

But like I said, if the BATF is going after the records of 50 owners, why would it just be here and not in other states? Why haven't we heard about it from other FFLs?
Link Posted: 10/21/2004 9:07:12 PM EST

Originally Posted By Raynman83:
The registration deadline ends April 1st of 2005. But even if it was 2006, what if I was 18? I'll bet asking the DOJ, they'd let it go. I'd assume the same issue came up with 18 year olds that owned ARs.



Where did you get the 2005 date? I got 2006 from the CA gov website, here:

http://info.sen.ca.gov/pub/bill/asm/ab_0001-0050/ab_50_cfa_20040814_152706_sen_floor.html

and here

http://info.sen.ca.gov/pub/bill/asm/ab_0001-0050/ab_50_bill_20040913_chaptered.html

Don't know what the case would be for an 18 year old.

Link Posted: 10/22/2004 12:07:42 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/22/2004 12:15:31 AM EST by New_Pup_101]
The ATF guys asked to see the owner's sales book on customers who bought .50BMG rifles. Not one rifle or one type, but just the list of those who bought 50s. There was a local cop having lunch in the shop so these guys were real. ATF guys wrote down the names and told the owner not to worry about it, but made me think twice about their motives. I was just wondering if anybody else had similar encounters in other stores. No BS.
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 12:38:55 PM EST
I was under the impression that the ban registration time worked like the AB23 ban where it starts on Jan 1st 2005, and ends April 1st. Giving people effectively 90 days to register. So after reading it, you have like 15 months to register after 2005. That's pretty generous of the state. Ok, I see how that does leave a lot of time open. Still not right for someone who won't be 21 by then, but I'm sure they would be ok with that.

Anyhow, thanks for the clarification.
rayn
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 2:01:18 PM EST
I'm a little confused by all of this.Couldnt the gun shop owner said to them that he would need some type of court order to release his personal information?To me this seems illegal for what they have done?I would have demanded "WHY" they need this info.Maybe the gun shop owner would need to think about it to see if he would need an attorney tp protect maybe his rights??If they woudnt explain why they need this info I would have told them to get lost and come back with some type of order.Who knows?
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 4:27:45 PM EST

Originally Posted By realwar:
I'm a little confused by all of this.Couldnt the gun shop owner said to them that he would need some type of court order to release his personal information?To me this seems illegal for what they have done?I would have demanded "WHY" they need this info.Maybe the gun shop owner would need to think about it to see if he would need an attorney tp protect maybe his rights??If they woudnt explain why they need this info I would have told them to get lost and come back with some type of order.Who knows?



From what I understand, it's perfectly legal for the BATF to come in and take down information in the pursuit of an investigation. IIRC, they cannot make photo copies. I know they are not supposed to remove the forms from the property - unless they are closing the place down.

But again, I reiterate, this would have nothing to do with Cali's recent law being passed. The BATF has nothing to do with enforcing ANY CA specific law. If it had to do with the CA law then the DOJ would have had people there also.

I'm not calling BS on the story, just that there's more detail than we are getting.
Link Posted: 10/24/2004 6:33:21 PM EST

Originally Posted By Pthfndr:
, just that there's more detail than we are getting.


Indeed.
Link Posted: 10/26/2004 3:54:05 PM EST
Ok if you want to read up more on this story theres a big spread over on biggerhammer.This whole story is just BS.Never happened!
Link Posted: 10/26/2004 4:17:14 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/26/2004 4:24:15 PM EST by AZ-K9]

Originally Posted By realwar:
Ok if you want to read up more on this story theres a big spread over on biggerhammer.This whole story is just BS.Never happened!


This incident, and the "incident" described at BH are different, nonetheless, both incidents can be explained relatively easily.

Link Posted: 10/26/2004 9:41:47 PM EST
yous guys read "Enemies Foreign and Domestic" right?



Link Posted: 10/28/2004 6:46:28 AM EST

Originally Posted By realwar:
Ok if you want to read up more on this story theres a big spread over on biggerhammer.This whole story is just BS.Never happened!



You weren't there. I was. I saw the two ATF guys with my own eyes so STFU about this never happened. I saw them with the ledger taking down names.
Link Posted: 10/28/2004 10:52:51 AM EST

Originally Posted By AZ-K9:
both incidents can be explained relatively easily.




We're all ears...
Link Posted: 10/28/2004 1:32:17 PM EST
Hey PUPPY kiss my ASS!
Link Posted: 10/28/2004 6:56:00 PM EST

Originally Posted By realwar:
Hey PUPPY kiss my ASS!


FAG Good come back by the way.
Link Posted: 10/29/2004 4:48:55 PM EST
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