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Posted: 1/5/2005 8:36:55 PM EDT
cbs2.com/finance/CA--Wal-MartGuns-kf/resources_news_html

Wal-Mart agrees to $14.5 million deal for gun sales violations
Wednesday January 05, 2005
By JIM WASSERMAN
Associated Press Writer

SACRAMENTO (AP) Wal-Mart Stores agreed to pay $14.5 million in fines and other costs to settle a state lawsuit over thousands of gun sales violations at California stores between 2000 and 2003, Attorney General Bill Lockyer announced Wednesday.

Lockyer said the Arkansas retailer will pay $5 million in fines, $4 million for state compliance checks with gun laws and millions more to assure its stores meet state and federal firearms laws.

``We were fully cooperative with the attorney general in resolving this matter,'' said Sacramento attorney Donald Heller, who represented the retail chain.

Wal-Mart agreed in April 2003 to suspend gun sales at its sporting goods counters in 114 California stores after the state documented hundreds of violations at two stores in Sacramento and four other stores in Turlock, Merced, Los Banos and Madera.

A subsequent investigation by California Department of Justice officials uncovered 2,891 more violations between 2000 and 2003 at stores in Fresno, Folsom, Turlock, Ukiah and Simi Valley.

``Wal-Mart's failure to comply with gun safety laws put the lives of all Californians at risk by placing guns in the hands of criminals and other prohibited persons,'' Lockyer said in a statement Wednesday.

State agents said the stores sold guns to 23 people who weren't allowed to possess them and delivered 36 more to customers who bought them for people not allowed to own guns.

Other offenses included gun sales without background checks and failures to identify buyers through thumbprints and drivers license scans. Stores also failed to document whether firearms safety devices such as trigger locks, were delivered with each purchase.

The retail chain hasn't yet decided whether it will resume gun sales in California, said company spokesman Gus Whitcomb. The settlement doesn't bar Wal-Mart from resuming sales, but requires it to submit to court-ordered compliance with gun laws.

``Our licenses are current so if we make that decision we could sell as soon as we wanted to,'' Whitcomb said.

He said Wal-Mart stores sell guns in every state but California, Hawaii and New Jersey.

The chain agreed to pay Lockyer's office $800,000 to recoup its investigative costs, and $1.2 million to monitor Wal-Mart's compliance with state firearms laws during the next five years.

^ =

On the Net:

Attorney General Bill Lockyer: http://caag.state.ca.us

Wal-Mart Stores: http://www.walmart.com

(Copyright 2005 by The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.)
Link Posted: 1/5/2005 8:43:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By warlord:
Stores also failed to document whether firearms safety devices such as trigger locks, were delivered with each purchase.



That's where they get the "thousands" number for "violations"...
Link Posted: 1/5/2005 10:06:40 PM EDT
So? they were freaking sloppy and that's the number of violations, infractions, boo-boos, gotchas,  whatever you want to call them.  They screwed up and they got caught but being Wally-World they don't do anything small.

A parking ticket for 8 minutes over is the same as a parking ticket for several weeks over.  All the other gun dealers here had to do the same things.

Bitch and moan if you want,  but coming from a police state that requires FOID cards is in no place to cast stones.
Link Posted: 1/6/2005 12:12:28 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/6/2005 12:14:27 AM EDT by m98codered]
Originally Posted By warlord:
cbs2.com/finance/CA--Wal-MartGuns-kf/resources_news_html

Wal-Mart agrees to $14.5 million deal for gun sales violations
Wednesday January 05, 2005
By JIM WASSERMAN
Associated Press Writer


State agents said the stores sold guns to 23 people who weren't allowed to possess them and delivered 36 more to customers who bought them for people not allowed to own guns.



That's f*cking dumb....how the F*CK would any dealer know if someone was buying a firearm for another person who's not able to own one....and what the fuck is going on....why did they have a 10day waiting period while the background is checked out  and if the person didn't cleared how the hell did he/she managed to get the firearm......
Link Posted: 1/6/2005 5:28:24 AM EDT

Originally Posted By m98codered:
Originally Posted By warlord:
cbs2.com/finance/CA--Wal-MartGuns-kf/resources_news_html

Wal-Mart agrees to $14.5 million deal for gun sales violations
Wednesday January 05, 2005
By JIM WASSERMAN
Associated Press Writer


State agents said the stores sold guns to 23 people who weren't allowed to possess them and delivered 36 more to customers who bought them for people not allowed to own guns.



That's f*cking dumb....how the F*CK would any dealer know if someone was buying a firearm for another person who's not able to own one....and what the fuck is going on....why did they have a 10day waiting period while the background is checked out  and if the person didn't cleared how the hell did he/she managed to get the firearm......



Some of the violations were for giving out the firearms before the 10 day wait was completed. Like on the day of sale.  As for the straw purchases, it depends how obvious the purchasers were.

The main problem is that Walmart's training of it's employees selling guns was almost nonexistant in a lot of stores.  If a small gun store operated like that, they would be out of business quickly.

Regardless, California's gun laws are still mostly BS.
Link Posted: 1/6/2005 5:45:00 AM EDT

Originally Posted By EOD_Guy:
The main problem is that Walmart's training of it's employees selling guns was almost nonexistant in a lot of stores.  If a small gun store operated like that, they would be out of business quickly.

Regardless, California's gun laws are still mostly BS.


The problem happens to be that like most retailers, training is very expensive. In Calif one of the reason for all of these onerous laws is a drive by the Democratic legislature to drive the gun shops out of business, hence no gun shop, no guns. Think about it, how many guns do they have to sell to make back their $14.5 million. My take on this is that Wall-Mart primarily a retailer and not a 2nd Amend advocate, they will permanently stop selling guns in their Kali-fornia stores, like Sears because there just isn't that much money in it.
Link Posted: 1/6/2005 6:57:36 AM EDT

Originally Posted By EOD_Guy:
If a small gun store operated like that, they would be out of business quickly.



If a small gun store operated like that, people would be IN JAIL.  That's what always rankled me about this deal with Wal-Mart.  We truly have one law for the little guy, and another law for big well-connected national retailers.


Originally Posted By warlord:
My take on this is that Wall-Mart primarily a retailer and not a 2nd Amend advocate, they will permanently stop selling guns in their Kali-fornia stores, like Sears because there just isn't that much money in it.



I agree.

I have always been amazed by Big 5 Sporting Goods.  In the past, I would go in there and buy maybe three Mosin-Nagant rifles at a time, then - BAM! - one sales associate (usually a more senior one) is taken out of commission for 45 minutes doing the paperwork.  They can't possibly be making any money selling those guns.  God bless 'em, there must be some gun rights advocates in charge of Big 5.
Link Posted: 1/6/2005 11:31:49 AM EDT
That sucks.....I get mad if I'm asked for my social security number on my 4473, and if I have to wait more than 20 minutes for my instant background check.

Sad state of affairs, with just our neighbors.....BUT, at least you're not like NY, D.C., or NJ.....they just suck!



Link Posted: 1/7/2005 3:58:43 PM EDT
hahah guys... wal-mart... look who we are talken about.... psssh wal-mart, who buys a gun from wal-mart anyways...
Link Posted: 1/7/2005 4:51:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MisterSuzuki:
That sucks.....I get mad if I'm asked for my social security number on my 4473, and if I have to wait more than 20 minutes for my instant background check.

Sad state of affairs, with just our neighbors.....BUT, at least you're not like NY, D.C., or NJ.....they just suck!


Rub it a little more will ya? Maybe, we'll export one of our Hollyweird actors/actress to Vagas. But actually, you should what out, the rest of the USA takes their ques from the anti-gun communists in Kalifornia.



Originally Posted By Mesa_Tactical:

Originally Posted By EOD_Guy:
If a small gun store operated like that, they would be out of business quickly.



If a small gun store operated like that, people would be IN JAIL.  That's what always rankled me about this deal with Wal-Mart.  We truly have one law for the little guy, and another law for big well-connected national retailers.


Originally Posted By warlord:
My take on this is that Wall-Mart primarily a retailer and not a 2nd Amend advocate, they will permanently stop selling guns in their Kali-fornia stores, like Sears because there just isn't that much money in it.



I agree.

I have always been amazed by Big 5 Sporting Goods.  In the past, I would go in there and buy maybe three Mosin-Nagant rifles at a time, then - BAM! - one sales associate (usually a more senior one) is taken out of commission for 45 minutes doing the paperwork.  They can't possibly be making any money selling those guns.  God bless 'em, there must be some gun rights advocates in charge of Big 5.


Yep, said but true in the real world. Kali-fornia needs Wall-Mart's money more than they need someone in jail/prison.

That is whole point of all of these onerous laws in Kali-fornia. The anti-gun politicos want you to jump thru all of the hoops and if you screw up just a itty bitty wham its off to prison.
Link Posted: 1/7/2005 8:19:03 PM EDT
I think the main reason the Wally World guys didn't go to jail and a gunstore owner might have is that many of the Wal-Mart errors were by untrained people just being hepful.  Not the sports or guns guys, somebody going over to help.  A failure in supervision more than anything.  At a gunstore, they are expected to know and obey the laws.  It's a fine point, but generally with a crime you need criminal intent.  A  gunstore owner doint things wrong is doing it wrong on purpose, they didn't.

Who buys guns at Wally-World, after the reports of what deals the guys in other states  got when WW cleared out discontinued models, I hope to be there when the local stores clear out their discontinued models back onto their shelves.
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