This is a major disappointment to me. This is the heart of fixing our state's political system by breaking the Democrat's death grip on the government. We have lost the oppurntiy to turn our state around. Ahnold may not run for reelection. Maria has gone on record as saying she wants her husband back, and Ahnold, is also very quietly signaling that he may want to get back to making movies. This does not bode well for us.
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Jul 21, 9:46 PM EDT

Schwarzenegger's redistricting measure ordered off ballot

By STEVE LAWRENCE
Associated Press Writer

SACRAMENTO (AP) -- A Superior Court judge on Thursday kicked Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger's redistricting measure off the November ballot, ruling that supporters violated California's constitution by using two versions of the initiative in the qualifying process.

"The differences are not simply typographical errors," Judge Gail Ohanesian said. "They're not merely about the format of the measure. They are not simply technical. Instead they go to the substantive terms of the measure."

The proposal, Proposition 77, is one of three initiatives that the Republican governor endorsed for the Nov. 8 special election that he called last month. It would take the power to draw legislative and congressional districts away from the Legislature and give it to a panel of three retired judges.

Margita Thompson, spokeswoman for Schwarzenegger, said the governor was disappointed in the decision and hoped that it would be overturned on appeal.

Attorney General Bill Lockyer asked the judge to order the measure off the ballot because its supporters used two versions - one to gather voter signatures and another that they gave to him to prepare a title and summary of the proposal to use on petitions.

Daniel Kolkey, an attorney representing the measure's author - Ted Costa - argued that the differences between the two versions were minor and mostly stylistic and due to a clerical error.

Kolkey said that holding initiative proponents to a requirement that there be no differences between what is submitted to the attorney general for review and what is circulated to voters could invalidate a measure for a simple printing error.

"The touchstone here is that were any voters misled, and no voters were misled," he said.

But the judge said the differences in the two versions were too great to rule that its supporters had adequately complied with constitutional requirements to submit a final version of an initiative to the attorney general before it's circulated for signatures.

"The initiative process is too important to so broadly apply the doctrine of substantial compliance," she said. "To rule otherwise would run the risk of the court inappropriately interjecting itself into the 'political thicket.'"

Kolkey said he would appeal the ruling to the 3rd District Court of Appeal. "We knew this matter would have to be decided by the appellate courts," he said.

Deputy Attorney General Vickie Whitney said the decision would make it tougher for supporters to get the proposal back on the ballot in time for the November election, particularly if appeals take it all the way to the state Supreme Court.

"We've got to take it one step at a time," Kolkey said. "Certainly, there's enough time for the Court of Appeals to make a decision."

The ruling is a big setback for the Republican governor, whose ballot agenda has languished in the polls under almost constant criticism from Democrats and labor groups who are opposing his proposals.

If Ohanesian's decision stands, Schwarzenegger and his supporters will be forced to go before voters with just two ballot measures - a complex plan for imposing new limits on state spending and a proposal that would lengthen the probationary period for public school teachers before they are granted tenure.

Earlier this year, the governor was forced to withdraw another ballot proposal aimed at cutting state support for public employee pensions after flaws were discovered in the initiative's language.

There are other initiatives set for the special election ballot qualified by other groups that Schwarzenegger has not yet taken a position on. They include measures that would require minors seeking an abortion to get parental permission, re-regulate the state's electricity market, lower prescription drug costs and force public employee unions to get written consent from their members before using dues for campaign donations.

Deborah Caplan, an attorney representing the initiative's opponents, said the measure's backers knew for almost a month about the discrepancies and didn't disclose them until after the secretary of state's office had certified the measure for the ballot.

"If you read the declarations carefully ... the proponents deliberately ran the clock out" to make sure it made the ballot, she said.

Kolkey said the timing of the disclosure was a "red herring" and that the initiative's supporters had done their "civil duty" by disclosing the discrepancies.

The judge said the initiative's supporters could still try to qualify the measure for the June 2006 primary.

But Kolkey said supporters shouldn't have to go through signature-gathering again.

"We have already gotten sufficient signatures to put this measure on the ballot," he said. "Why should proponents have to expend the money (to collect signatures) when they've got a perfectly valid initiative that ought to go on the November special election ballot?"

Assembly Speaker Fabian Nunez, D-Los Angeles, said the proposition's supporters "should have known they were misleading the people. Their 'bait and switch' tactics undermined the integrity of the initiative process."

But Assembly Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy, R-Bakersfield, said the decision "goes against common sense."

"This allows one person to thwart what a million people have signed," he said. "Back-room politics won today. Now politicians in the back room have now used the court system to keep their power in Sacramento."

Todd Harris, spokesman for the governor's campaign committee, the California Recovery Team, said the judge's ruling will not stop the effort to change California.

"Proposition 77 is supported by a broad-based coalition, including business and taxpayer organizations, seniors, education leaders, women's groups, responsible elected officials and everyday citizens throughout California," Harris said in a statement.

"We plan to continue the fight for these reforms; today, tomorrow, next year, forever, until they are accomplished and the voices of reform from the people of California are finally heard," he said.

© 2005 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.

"This allows one person to thwart what a million people have signed," he said. "Back-room politics won today. Now politicians in the back room have now used the court system to keep their power in Sacramento."

Sonofa...

was really looking forward to that

I guess appointing leberal judges is working well for the Dems.

Ahhh, poor Arnie didn't get what he wanted. HA HA

To bad, so sad, please don't run for Gov again!!! POS RINO.

Quoted: Ahhh, poor Arnie didn't get what he wanted. HA HA To bad, so sad, please don't run for Gov again!!! POS RINO.

Whether you like Arnie or not, this was one way to break up the Democratic Machine in CA politics. Do you have a better idea on redistricting? Or are you just a hater?

HATER!

Score one for the evil demoncraps.......may they all rot in hell.

Attorney General Bill Lockyer

Recall Bill Lockyer

Well that pretty much sucks!

Quoted: Recall Bill Lockyer hr

+1
heavy.gif

Is there any way this can be put back on the ballot?

Or put in on the next election?

Give me some hope people...

Quoted: Ahhh, poor Arnie didn't get what he wanted. HA HA To bad, so sad, please don't run for Gov again!!! POS RINO.

So.. are you one of those people who are sour at everything someone in office does unless they align with your political beliefs 100%?

You're going to mock him because a measure that he wanted (which would help all the Republicans in a big way in CA) didn't pass because he's a "RINO"?

How juvenile. I bet if some measure about firearms came up and he supported it you would be all happy when it was pulled, just because something a "RINO" supported went down in flames. Apparently progress isn't acceptable by you.

Who gives a shit? Arnie can take a long walk off a short pier and can take all his BS with him.

We'd be better off if Davis was still in office, at least we knew where he was coming from!

Did you really think it had a chance? Seriously? Ain't happening, the Dems are seeing to it!

Quoted: Who gives a shit? Arnie can take a long walk off a short pier and can take all his BS with him. We'd be better off if Davis was still in office, at least we knew where he was coming from! Did you really think it had a chance? Seriously? Ain't happening, the Dems are seeing to it!

And who thought there was a chance of recalling a Gonvernor who had all the union's money and leaders in his pocket.
I remember the local pumbers union having a pro Davis rally during the recall, it was huge.
Arnie may be a rino, but if redisticting happened, you would see the dems lose teir power.
Lets face it most of the politicians in Kali are Rino's or Dems.  Until we get a Tom Mclintoc in office, were just gooing have to play the cards were dealt.

Quoted: Ahhh, poor Arnie didn't get what he wanted. HA HA To bad, so sad, please don't run for Gov again!!! POS RINO.

Would you like to Bill LOckyear as gov? Becareful of what you wish for, he has that ambition. If Ahnold is not going to run for reelection, you can bet Lockyear will be a candidate. Got your 50BMG banned huh? The 50BMG shooters weren't too concerned about Calif AWB, and the AWB owners weren't too concerned about 50BMG ban, but it was unfortunate. Ahnold rejected 2 other gun bills, so that wasn't too bad.

Sheesh!   Of course .50 owners 'care about' the AWB in CA....
The whole point of AB50 was to add it to the LIST of banned weapons...
Arnie sold us down the river like any other good Democrat in CA would've done.  Where was the political fallout if he'd veto'd the bill?
Current AW owner's in CA apparently didn't care about .50s 'cause their guns are already scheduled for confiscation and they won't be bothered by the DOJ until that happens....
The tactics used to derail this proposition aren't any different that what's been used before.  The only difference I can detect is that Arnie rolled faster than anybody else...

Quoted: And I thought I was cynical.

You might be, but this one is like a toddler throwing a tantrum in the store.

"NOOO! I don't want THAT one, I want the OTHER ONE! IF I CAN'T HAVE THE ONE I WANT I'M GOING TO MAKE YOU WISH I WAS ABORTED!!!!"

Quoted: Who gives a shit? Arnie can take a long walk off a short pier and can take all his BS with him. We'd be better off if Davis was still in office, at least we knew where he was coming from! Did you really think it had a chance? Seriously? Ain't happening, the Dems are seeing to it!

Dude, put your football helmet back on, YOU'RE SPECIAL!!!

Quoted: Sheesh!   Of course .50 owners 'care about' the AWB in CA.... The whole point of AB50 was to add it to the LIST of banned weapons... Arnie sold us down the river like any other good Democrat in CA would've done.  Where was the political fallout if he'd veto'd the bill? Current AW owner's in CA apparently didn't care about .50s 'cause their guns are already scheduled for confiscation and they won't be bothered by the DOJ until that happens.... The tactics used to derail this proposition aren't any different that what's been used before.  The only difference I can detect is that Arnie rolled faster than anybody else...

You may, but I spoke with some guy at the entrance of Building 7 at the Great Western Gun Show before it was closed, and the guy was pretty adament that his gun wasn't an AW, and there was no way it was going to get banned.

Remember Ahnold vetoed 2 other bills, an ammo reg bill, and a gun storage bill. These 2 bill would've affect more of the gunners.

Quoted: ........ Remember Ahnold vetoed 2 other bills, an ammo reg bill, and a gun storage bill. These 2 bill would've affect more of the gunners.

Exactly the point...
You appear to agree that it's OK to be screwed out of our rights, just as long as it *only* one item at a time....  and by somebody who's supposedly on our side?

You're talking ancient history with the Great Western Shows.... there weren't many people then that thought Roberti would get his stupid legislation through.  Especially after they were soundly defeated in the Prop 15 debacle.  We all should have been prepared for the fight by the time they were confiscating SKS sporters and SB23 was proposed.

I'm certain 50Shooter doesn't literally mean that he wishes Davis were still in office as much as he means he wishes Arnold wasn't.   Those of us who campained and voted for McClintock saw our worst fears come to pass in Arnold's election.   His point was the enemy you know is better than the one you don't.  50Shooter's done much over the years to promote shooting events in SoCal.  Lobbying our state reps, working with the FCI and others to keep our sport alive in this state.  It's dissapointing to see your efforts sold out,  even worse for apparently nothing....

We had AB50 down in defeat two years running until the Dems resorted to last ditch vote scams to get it passed.   Arnie had his chance to veto it and show which side he's really on.   In my opinion, he picked the wrong side.   Already his choice has resulted in major .50 ban legislation being proposed and passed  through the rest of the country.
To us, that'll be his legacy... one more big nail in the coffin of gun ownership in the U.S.
What's the point in supporting a so-called 'leader' who'll sell you out in what many consider a 'small' issue?   If he cannot be trusted to get the 'small' things right,  why would I trust him to get right the 'big' ones?
Arnie's done....he knows it.....he's taking his marbles and going home.  We've been left holding the bag... again...   we should now be focused on finding a truly constitutional conservative to put in the governors office.  (and NO I wouldn't be asking the current loosers in the CA Republican Party who we should run next either...)   Time to reorganize those idiots as well.

Quoted: Quoted: ........ Remember Ahnold vetoed 2 other bills, an ammo reg bill, and a gun storage bill. These 2 bill would've affect more of the gunners. You're talking ancient history with the Great Western Shows.... there weren't many people then that thought Roberti would get his stupid legislation through.  Especially after they were soundly defeated in the Prop 15 debacle.  We all should have been prepared for the fight by the time they were confiscating SKS sporters and SB23 was proposed.

MrBen:
We have many problems in Calif.

It steams me to see gunners that to say, "if it ain't my gun, then it isn't my fight." I'd wouldn't say that if I didn't speak to the 50BMG guy personally. The reason I know this is because the guy had refused to sign my petition to overturn SB23.

I've also spoken to many SASS people, the didn't care one wit whether SB15 or SB23 bill passed or not. Only after explaining to them that the rifles with tubular-fed magazines were banned under SB23 did those SASSS folks get with the program, but the tubular mag provision was later deleted. There were a few lever-action rifles that had >10 round tube mags that would be banned, or had the tubes restriction to 10 rounds.

What about the shotgun trap & skeet people? Most didn't care about which way SB15 and SB23 went because their shotguns weren't at risk. I spent hundreds of hours of my time, gas, and putting many miles on my car going to Bakersfield and Hemet(I'm in L.A.), and everywhere in between to gathering signatures to reverse SB23 & SB15, and I keep on seeing the same old faces at all of them.

There is a lot of wishful thinking amount the CA gunners. Well, don't like Ahnold, who do you propose that can win an election against any Democratic candidate for Gov? The Republicans have zero people waiting in the wings that can take on any Dem and WIN. As a matter of fact they have problems getting a candidate to run, because if they loose this would a political death knell for them.

The important point in politics is to WIN, and because 2nd place doesn't count. I too voted McClintok, but political reality is that he plain just can't win in a state-wide election based on his politics. Ahnold won because of his movie star appeal, plain and simple. The Dems have pretty much made a clean sweep of the executive branch prior to Ahnold appearing, and the Dems also dominates the legislature. Ahnold doesn't have to run for governor, he has a very successful movie career, and doesn't need the money or prestige, and he also a family he wants to be with. The guy is doing us a favor. If Ahnold didn't run, who would've been gov? Lt Gov Bustamande? Or Gary Davis again? See the political realities. Davis and Bustamande would have gladly signed all 3 gun bills and raised our taxes to boot.

You're going to see those 2 gun bills that Ahnold vetoed re-appear in the future after Ahnold is gone. Don't think that the Dems accept defeat that easily.

You know lobbying the reps is not enough, you've got to campaign against them when they are the most venerable; and to prevent them from getting into office in the first place, and that is against them during election time. This hard and boring work, and some cases exhausting. I spent many hours phone banking for pro-gun candidates, stuffing envelopes, and walked many precints in support of pro-gun candidates. Only during one campaign did I see a lot of gun people, and that was John Flores running against Marty Martinez in Alhambra in '94. Many times I was the lone gun person working on a campaign.

If there is on thing that I learned in life along with the death and taxes, "the playing field is never level, and the rules are never fair." Better believe it.

Quoted:... You're going to see those 2 gun bills that Ahnold vetoed re-appear in the future after Ahnold is gone. Don't think that the Dems accept defeat that easily.....

On that we quite agree...

Quoted: Quoted:... You're going to see those 2 gun bills that Ahnold vetoed re-appear in the future after Ahnold is gone. Don't think that the Dems accept defeat that easily..... On that we quite agree...

Believe me, I sent many letters to my state assemblywoman Lucy Liu(D-El Monte) against the 50BMG ban, but unfortunately she voted for the ban anyways.

The Dems lost a big one. AG Lockyer took a big gamble to remove it from the ballot, now it is back, and there is nothing the Dems can do about it.
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Aug 12, 8:44 PM EDT

Supreme Court allows redistricting initiative on November ballot

By DAVID KRAVETS
AP Legal Affairs Writer

SAN FRANCISCO (AP) -- The California Supreme Court ruled Friday that Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger's attempt to change the way legislative districts are drawn should be placed back on November's special election ballot.

The 4-2 decision overturns a state appellate court ruling that removed the measure because of a wording dispute.

In its ruling, the San Francisco-based court said it was unconvinced there were different meanings in the versions of the measure that were submitted to the attorney general for review and shown to registered voters for their signature to place it on the ballot.

"We conclude that it would not be appropriate to deny the electorate the opportunity to vote on Proposition 77 at the special election to be held on November 8, 2005, on the basis of such discrepancies," the majority wrote.

The decision is a victory for the Republican governor, who has made the redistricting initiative a centerpiece of his so-called "year of reform."

The initiative seeks to strip lawmakers' power to draw congressional and legislative boundaries in California and instead shift that responsibility to a panel of retired judges.

In a statement, Schwarzenegger said he was "pleased that the people of California will have an opportunity to vote on Proposition 77. ... Close to one million Californians signed petitions demanding redistricting reform, and today their voices have been heard."

Supporters submitted enough signatures to qualify the initiative for the ballot, but Attorney General Bill Lockyer sued to remove it after its backers disclosed that they used a different version of the initiative during the certification process.

A Sacramento County Superior Court judge ruled in Lockyer's favor, striking the measure from the ballot July 21. Earlier this week, the 3rd District Court of Appeal in Sacramento rejected, in a 2-1 vote, an attempt by its backers to restore it.

Lockyer said he was disappointed with the Supreme Court's decision and said he had brought the challenge to defend the integrity of the initiative process.

"The outcome in this case presents a serious danger of opening up the initiative process to bait-and-switch tactics that deceive voters and erode their trust," he said in a statement.

Voting to overturn the Sacramento appeals court were Chief Justice Ronald M. George, Justice Marvin Baxter, Justice Ming Chen and Richard Aldrich, a Los Angeles appellate justice sitting on assignment.

Dissenting were justices Carlos Moreno and Joyce Kennard. Justice Kathryn Werdegar was unavailable and did not participate. The court normally has seven members, but Schwarzenegger has not yet replaced Janice Rogers Brown, who left last month to sit on a federal appeals court.

Proposition 77's opponents still believe they will defeat the measure at the polls, said Lance Olson, an attorney representing Californians for Fair Representation-No on 77.

"The court still hasn't ruled on the merits," he said. "We still think the measure was qualified illegally, but we're not likely to find out because we're certain that this issue will be defeated at the polls. That's where we'll turn our focus now."

California voters have rejected four redistricting attempts since 1982.

Schwarzenegger has been an outspoken critic of the system, which he has called unrepresentative and undemocratic.

After the 2000 census, lawmakers of both parties approved a redistricting scheme that allowed districts to be drawn in a way that heavily favored candidates of only one party. Of the 153 congressional and state legislative races in November 2004, not a single seat changed parties.

The last time a redistricting measure came before the justices was 1999, when it removed from the ballot a measure placing redistricting in the hands of the judiciary.

The justices invalidated the measure before the election because it contained a separate and unrelated question - how much lawmakers could earn. The justices said ballot initiatives must deal with only one subject at a time, as the California Constitution demands.

The case is Costa v. Superior Court, S136294.

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Associated Press Political Writer Beth Fouhy contributed to this report.

© 2005 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.

Quoted: They've bought another nine more months and pissed off a whole bunch more people. The next regular election I'm certain you'll see more than one additional voter initiative. Bust out them checkbooks and start writing.

Yahbut they pissed off the Dems by putting it back ON the ballot.  Now all we have to do is get it voted on correctly by the voters.

And all the SASS people I know are against the laws contrary to the post above, maybe the shotgun boys didn't care but the SASS boys did.  But if you want to continue to posit the us against them divide in our sports go ahead.  It's easier to blame people on your side than on the other side.

Yay

This redistricting initiative is California's last hope.

I hope to find a way to help it pass.

any ideas?

This assholes were only delaying the inevitable.  Redistricting has momentum.  It's only a matter of time before it goes to a vote.  I believe this one just might pass.

Quoted: This redistricting initiative is California's last hope. I hope to find a way to help it pass. any ideas?

Well, to insure it passes, we need some politically active people to campaign for its passage. Pretty simple.

Actually this proposition, and Prop 74(teacher excellence) & Prop 75(Public Empl. Union Paycheck Prot) is aim ed weakening the Dems power base.

It will sure be a breath of fresh air for California and actually even the playing field to which the democraps have held an unfair advantage in the polls by the current district organization for way too long.

Too many people have given up on California, for those of us who have not given up and call California our home, see this state, our home, worth fighting for. WE, not our legislature, nor AG Lockyer, have a great opportunity to effect a change that can return this state to the ideals and values shared in the rest of America, where we, the people of this state can again have a voice in how we are represented and by whom, and, should this measure pass, we will once again have a say in what becomes law by electing those representatives who will vote our voices. And, maybe, just maybe, with new districts, we can even become a state that can be proud of our presidential votes in the electorate.

Should we win this measure, we very well might be able to hand folks like Cruz Bustamonte, Dianne Fientstien, Barbara Boxer and a boatload of liberal legislature their pink slips.


It's about fuckin' time...

Quoted: This redistricting initiative is California's last hope. I hope to find a way to help it pass. any ideas?

WELCOME!

Yes, we as Californians should take advantage of this oppurtunity to weaken the Dem's stranglehold on California. This could be our last oppurtunity. A lot of people don't seem appreciate that Ahnold is duing us a favor(even though he signed the 50BMG ban, and veteod 2 other gun-bills, but if the Dems were in the gov's office, they would've signed all 3 in a heart beat). Maria is already on record that "she wants her husband back, and there are rumors that Ahnold wants to go back and make movies. Based on all of that, this maybe the best oppurtunity we have.