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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 8/10/2005 10:54:47 PM EDT
I was at a Mil Surplus store In Lapeer toaday. The owner is a Class 3 dealer also and has been for years. He tried to sell me an AOW shotgun today. He said that AOW's and DD's are OK for non licensed people to own. He confirmed that SBR's, full auto's and such were not allowed, but AOW's and DD's are. I always thought that all NFA items were not allowed for non licensees. Is there any truth to what he said? If so, I'm going to buy some more toys!!

Thanks,
Kris
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 2:06:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/11/2005 2:07:28 PM EDT by RodMI]
That is interesting because I sew a .50cal for $8000 in a gun store and I thought it whose probable a C&R sow we could own it. From what I now DD and AOW's are a no no in MI. If DD are ok in Michigan I'm going to get one soon.
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 2:49:04 PM EDT
AOW's are illegal, some DD's are ok if they are classified as curio and relics such as a Boyes .55 or a Lahti 20mm but they have to be on the C&R list. As i recall the only AOW that is on the C&R list would be a marbles games getter or an original M6 scout with barrels less than 16inches in length, THEY HAVE TO BE ON THE C&R LIST! Not only do they have to be on the list but you have to be a curio and relics FFL holder in order to obtain them, thats the only way around it. Michigan residents cannot purchase DD's or AOW's without proper paper work (c&r) No modern equipment whatsoever! McM
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 4:18:50 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 5:26:50 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 5:56:41 PM EDT
Wow! Thanks for the info Dave! Either way, if it wasn't legal to own, they would just deny the paper work, correct? The worst that would happen is they say no. If they approve it, then it's legal, right?

Kris
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 6:26:36 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 8:02:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Lumpy223:
If it was determined by the ATF to be illegal in Michigan, then they would not approve the transfer.

Now if they did approve it, you might still run into problems if you ran across an overzelous law enforcement official who believes it to be a short barrel shotgun. I would certainly think that having a copy of your form 4 would go a long ways towards curbing that problem though.

Like I say, this is interesting and I would like to see someone who knows how to research this look further into it.



I think that I have some of the Michigan ATF phone #'s. I may give them a call tomorrow if I have time.

Kris
Link Posted: 8/12/2005 5:24:47 AM EDT
Tagged
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 9:38:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/17/2005 9:49:57 PM EDT by danox574]
The Serbu Super Shorty is made from a Mossberg Maverick, and fits the definition of a SBS by the law you quoted above.

They will also build if off a 590 or 500 platform for you if you wish, but the Maverick has a stock. Now, if you could petition Serbu to make the gun based on the Mossberg Persuader (now politically corrected in name to be the 'cruiser', I believe) THAT YOU ALREADY OWN AND HAVE REGISTERED AS A PISTOL, it starts as a PISTOL according to MI law. You need to do a green sheet/CCW to purchase one, or so I have been told. I still think you'd have a hard time convincing the state of MI that it's NOT a shotgun, in any case, even though definition (h) clearly states no stock = not a shotgun.

Fact is, I'd really like some validation that MI law did not kick this form back. Even if we read it right, who verifies the legality of this form?

Maybe someone could call Serbu?

-Dan
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 3:17:29 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 3:55:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Lumpy223:
Well, I went straight to the source at Serbu and got an answer from none other than Mark himself. I was asking if the Mavericks he uses were ever assembled with a buttstock on them. This is part of his reply..........


The SUPER-SHORTY is registered with the BATF as an AOW. To qualify as an AOW, the gun HAD to NEVER have a full buttstock attached.


So again, I submit that the Serbu Super Shorty would be classified as a pistol in Michigan and thus legal to own, by my reading of the law.

I sure wish I knew a good firearms lawyer I could run this by. I think I am going to start looking to save the cash for a Super Shorty.



Sweet!! I'll see what I can do about contacting the ATF. I almost forgot. I've been busy with the new house stuff.
Link Posted: 8/23/2005 3:18:22 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Lumpy223:
Well, I went straight to the source at Serbu and got an answer from none other than Mark himself. I was asking if the Mavericks he uses were ever assembled with a buttstock on them. This is part of his reply..........


The SUPER-SHORTY is registered with the BATF as an AOW. To qualify as an AOW, the gun HAD to NEVER have a full buttstock attached.


So again, I submit that the Serbu Super Shorty would be classified as a pistol in Michigan and thus legal to own, by my reading of the law.

I sure wish I knew a good firearms lawyer I could run this by. I think I am going to start looking to save the cash for a Super Shorty.



Can't be registered as a pistol due to the vertical front grip.
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 7:50:10 AM EDT

Originally Posted By anotherlefty:

Can't be registered as a pistol due to the vertical front grip.



I think you're missing the point -- yes, the assembled Serbu Super Shorty has a foregrip, and cannot be registered as a pistol. In fact, it doesn't require it to be so, as it is a NFA item.

The relevant point regarding it's pistol status is the fact that the Serbu Super Shorty is built from a platform that WOULD be registered as a pistol in Michigan if owned prior to its modification into a NFA item. Meaning, it's not built from a shotgun by MI law, which means it is not Short barreled shotgun by MI law.

-Dan
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