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Posted: 11/17/2008 5:41:33 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/17/2008 7:34:29 AM EDT by CrownAndSeven]
Komo 4 Link

Text:
By KOMO Staff MARYSVILLE, Wash. –– A 6-year-old girl who was shot in the head Sunday evening has died at Children's Hospital in Seattle, the King County Medical Examiner's Office said.

Investigators are questioning the girl's father, who told a 911 dispatcher that the girl was wounded while they were cleaning guns.

Snohomish County Sheriff Lt. John Flood said deputies were called to the home in the 4500 block of 83rd Place West about 7:26 p.m. and found the wounded girl.

She was taken to an Everett hospital and then airlifted to Seattle.

No one else was injured, and Flood said the girl's 42-year-old father has been detained for questioning.

The exact circumstances of the incident were unclear. Flood said the girl's mother, an infant and an 8-year-old sibling were also in the house at the time.

The investigation is ongoing.





Link Posted: 11/17/2008 5:44:16 AM EDT
Check with Gtnlwr. He's the one with the little girl fetish.....Seriously, though, sad the little one got hurt. Hope she comes out ok. Dad, you're a dummy![>:/]
Link Posted: 11/17/2008 5:50:02 AM EDT
Why is it...when somebody seriously screws up while "playing" with their gun......they were cleaning it.......sorry pal..you fucked up..now pay the price.
Link Posted: 11/17/2008 5:53:07 AM EDT
Sounds like his butt will get a good cleansing in jail...


Poor girl, hope she makes it out okay...
Link Posted: 11/17/2008 6:12:10 AM EDT
Originally Posted By gwitness:
Why is it...when somebody seriously screws up while "playing" with their gun......they were cleaning it.......sorry pal..you fucked up..now YOUR DAUGHTER is paying the price.



Fixt fer da troot!
Link Posted: 11/17/2008 6:12:55 AM EDT
Don't believe everything you read until it all comes out.

Link Posted: 11/17/2008 6:17:19 AM EDT
Originally Posted By bobbitybobbity:
Originally Posted By gwitness:
Why is it...when somebody seriously screws up while "playing" with their gun......they were cleaning it.......sorry pal..you fucked up..now YOUR DAUGHTER is paying the price.



Fixt fer da troot!


right you are.
Link Posted: 11/17/2008 6:27:30 AM EDT
Originally Posted By gwitness:
Originally Posted By bobbitybobbity:
Originally Posted By gwitness:
Why is it...when somebody seriously screws up while "playing" with their gun......they were cleaning it.......sorry pal..you fucked up..now YOUR DAUGHTER is paying the price.



Fixt fer da troot!


right you are.


Cause they are stupid ignorant fucks who don't deserve to have guns let alone children... I mean seriously some people need to get weeded out of the gene pool rikitick...
Link Posted: 11/17/2008 6:56:19 AM EDT
Originally Posted By sixgunsblazing:
Don't believe everything you read until it all comes out.




This



Link Posted: 11/17/2008 7:06:10 AM EDT


Very sad.


what else is there to believe? I am skeptical; as the next person when it comes to the media, but sure sounds like daddy did something stupid.

Link Posted: 11/17/2008 7:12:56 AM EDT
Originally Posted By jasonfin1128:

what else is there to believe?



Some "dads" are capable of doing horrible things. maybe it wasn't an accident.

Link Posted: 11/17/2008 7:14:26 AM EDT
Originally Posted By 2whiskeyP:
Originally Posted By jasonfin1128:

what else is there to believe?



Some "dads" are capable of doing horrible things. maybe it wasn't an accident.




'bout fuggin time you got up...

Link Posted: 11/17/2008 7:19:05 AM EDT
I just heard that she didn't make it.
Link Posted: 11/17/2008 7:19:58 AM EDT
Originally Posted By jasonfin1128:


Very sad.


what else is there to believe? I am skeptical; as the next person when it comes to the media, but sure sounds like daddy did something stupid.




True, to an extent...

It's possible that the 8 year old found the gun and shot the 6 year old, but still, mom and dad didn't secure the firearm, and they are stupid for that.

It's possible that the 6 year old found the gun sitting on the table while dad was cleaning and pulled the trigger. Again, dad is stupid and at fault.

Maybe mom got pissed at dad and shot and missed, hitting the 6 year old... Again parents are at fault.

While anything is possible the one thing remains constant. The firearm is not at fault.. The parents are for either A) being irresponsible or B) being stupid.

Link Posted: 11/17/2008 7:38:59 AM EDT
Originally Posted By DaddysGirl:
I just heard that she didn't make it.


=[
Link Posted: 11/17/2008 9:37:13 AM EDT
The story, given the minimal details, sounds fishy to me. I wouldn't be surprised if he was drunk or stoned. You don't clean your guns with ammo in them damnit.

Link Posted: 11/17/2008 9:49:54 AM EDT
These always sound fishy to me, I hate to judge without the whole story but what the fork! Definitely negligence at best, my guess would be more like “playing with” his guns rather than “cleaning”

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/388155_girl18.html
Girl dies after gun accident, father arrested
By SCOTT GUTIERREZ
P-I REPORTER

A 6-year-old girl who was shot in the head while her father was cleaning a gun has died, the Snohomish County Sheriff's Office reported.

The shooting was reported Sunday from her home in Marysville at 7:50 p.m. Deputies arrested the 42-year-old father and booked him into the Snohomish County Jail for investigation of first-degree manslaughter, the sheriff's office reported.

The girl was taken to Seattle Children's hospital in Seattle, where she died. The father had called 911, the sheriff's office reported.

"The caller told the 911 operator that they were cleaning guns," sheriff's Lt. John Flood said Sunday.

A King County Medical Examiner's Office spokesman said Monday that jurisdiction in the case is being transferred to the Snohomish County medical examiner because the shooting took place at Marysville.

An 8-year-old sibling, an infant and the victim's mother also were home during the shooting, police said.

The incident occurred within the Tulalip Reservation, Flood said, "but we don't think this is tribal land."

The reservation also includes privately held land.

Tulalip Reservation police did not comment on the incident.


Link Posted: 11/17/2008 10:08:22 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/17/2008 10:09:04 AM EDT by jasonfin1128]
Originally Posted By libertynews:
The story, given the minimal details, sounds fishy to me. I wouldn't be surprised if he was drunk or stoned. You don't clean your guns with ammo in them damnit.




you would be surprise how many people dont clear the weapon. It happens...

Especially with a glock, where you have to pull the trigger to dismantle.

Stupid people who shouldnt be allowed to own guns, much less live.
Link Posted: 11/17/2008 10:25:25 AM EDT
Originally Posted By libertynews:
You don't clean your guns with ammo in them damnit.




I have taken calls just like this several times.


one was an officers wife, and regular shooter. another was a officer, or corrections officer I dont recall.

Be real carefull about what you say you "Think", or are "Willing to bet" the details are. You end up sounding no worse then the news who just grabs small facts as quick as they can so they can get a news story out.


One thing is for sure now.. Morons or not, the odds that there is a whole new family, and extended family worth of new Anti-Guners is very high.
Link Posted: 11/17/2008 2:08:49 PM EDT
God speed for that little girl. Father is an idiot, but I can't even imagine how he feels today. I don't feel sorry for him but that has to be rough.
Link Posted: 11/17/2008 4:02:46 PM EDT
Just after Halloween he had another accidental discharge with a damn shotgun (according to KOMO).

Richard Peters is his name. Dude looks REALLY familliar to me but don't know why.
Link Posted: 11/17/2008 4:09:08 PM EDT
So this is his second ND? This guy sounds more like real tool every second. Poor little girl, and they had 2 other children.
Link Posted: 11/17/2008 5:24:51 PM EDT
The whole "shot whilst cleaning gun" thing has never set well with me. HTF do you clean a gun with a round in it?[>:/] "Shot before or after cleaning a gun" would be much more accurate.

Poor girl.
Link Posted: 11/17/2008 5:30:13 PM EDT
I wanna know the exact details before passin' judgment, but at first glance it does sound like there is some kinda negligence on the part of the dad.

Whatever the hell happened, it is bullshit. We all know there are ways to prevent accidents. There are safety and security procedures all of US follow.

Knock on wood, but really, if you're doin' all things the way you're supposed to, keeping weapons secured, checking chambers twice before disassembly, following the rules (to include only pointing things in a SAFE direction), your chances of havin' an accident are damn close to ZERO.
Link Posted: 11/17/2008 5:39:50 PM EDT

Man jailed in daughter's death

05:21 PM PST on Monday, November 17, 2008

By ROB PIERCY / KING 5 News
Video: Girl shot while father cleans guns


MARYSVILLE, Wash. - The father of a 6-year-old girl who was shot while he was cleaning guns has been jailed for investigation of manslaughter.
Investigators say on Sunday night, the girl's father, Richard Peters, was cleaning his guns.
"He had sent the 6-year-old girl up to his bedroom to get a gun out of his nightstand," said Rebecca Hover of the Snohomish County Sheriff's Office.
The gun was a Colt .45 Double Eagle.
Police say during an interview with investigators, Peters told them when his daughter handed him the gun, he pulled out the magazine and pulled the trigger.
The gun fired, and Peters’ daughter dropped to the ground. She had been shot in the head.

KING
Richard Peters appeared in court Monday.
Investigators say Peters told them that while cleaning his guns, he was drinking vodka, pouring himself multiple double drinks. He told them he was probably too drunk to drive.
"I don't think I have the words to describe the tragedy of this situation and how it just defies all logic and common sense," said Hover.
Investigators say Peters told them he lets all of his kids handle guns, including his 8-year-old and 3-year-old.
The children are in the custody of Child Protective Services.
Investigators say a few weeks ago, Peters accidentally fired a shotgun during a pumpkin "shoot-up" in Darrington. He said he didn't know the gun was loaded.
Peters is in jail on $250,000 bail.
Link Posted: 11/17/2008 5:41:28 PM EDT
The guy is a fucking drunk piece of shit.
His wife is a piece of shit.

Who in the fuck sends their 6 year old child to get a gun.


Dad admits drinking before girl's shooting, police say

By Diana Hefley and Eric Stevick
Herald Writers

MARYSVILLE – A Marysville man allegedly told police he accidentally shot his 6-year-old daughter Sunday after he sent her upstairs to retrieve the loaded .45-caliber Colt handgun from his nightstand.

Detectives were told he had planned to clean the weapon. He allegedly told detectives he'd consumed multiple double shots of vodka and would have been too intoxicated to drive a car.

Richard Peters, 42, was arrested for investigation of first-degree manslaughter. He appeared briefly this afternoon in Everett District Court, where bail was set at $250,000.

Peters told police that his daughter, Stormy, brought him the handgun at his request. He said that he pulled the trigger and she fell to the ground, according to a police affidavit filed in court today. The girl was rushed to Seattle Children’s hospital, where doctors pronounced her dead this morning.

First-degree manslaughter occurs when somebody recklessly causes the death of another person.

According to the affidavit, Peters told detectives that he grabbed the gun from the girl, cleared the magazine and pulled the trigger, according to the affidavit.

He told police he froze and was unable to perform CPR or call 911 after the girl was struck by the bullet.

Peters reportedly told police all of his children handle guns. He said the handgun that fired Sunday has a “hair trigger,” and he thought his daughter could have been able to pull back the slide.

Peters' wife allegedly told police she and her husband were cleaning guns and she retrieved the gun from his nightstand, according to the affidavit. She said that he cleared the gun, pulled back the slide and the gun went off, according to court papers. She said her daughter wasn’t in the room while they were cleaning the gun but suddenly appeared when the gun went off, police wrote in the affidavit.

Their other children, 8 and 3, were not in the room at the time of the shooting, she said.

Peters allegedly told police he has a concealed weapons permit. He said he often goes shooting and started handling guns at the age of 7, according to the court record.

****Peters told detectives he accidentally discharged a shotgun in October during a Halloween event in Darrington. He said his friend had handed him a loaded shotgun. He said he didn’t know the gun was loaded and he accidentally fired a shot downrange.****

Neighbors of the family, who live on a quiet cul-de-sac on the west side of the Tulalip Indian Reservation, described the accident as tragic.

“They are good people,” said Ana Tall, who lives on the same block as the family. “They are good neighbors.”

The girl was a first grader at Quil Ceda Elementary School. Grief counselors were at the school this morning to work with any children who might need help, said Marysville School District Superintendent Larry Nyland.

Quil Ceda’s staff was briefed before school this morning.

“It’s just a real tragedy,” Nyland said.

Gerry Provencher, 65, didn’t know about the shooting until this morning when his son called to say the road was blocked off with police tape.

“She was just a little girl,” he said. “It’s sickening. It’s just, Why?”

Provencher said the girl’s death is a tragic reminder of the importance of gun safety.

“I have a gun,” he said. “I have grandchildren. The gun is in my safe locked.”

The other children in the home where the shooting occurred have been removed by state Child Protective Services workers, said Rebecca Hover, spokeswoman for the Snohomish County Sheriff's Office. That is standard practice when an investigation is underway surrounding the death of a child.
Link Posted: 11/17/2008 5:43:05 PM EDT
From KOMO 4
http://www.komonews.com/news/34570449.html

MARYSVILLE, Wash. –– A man who fatally shot his 6-year-old daughter while cleaning guns Sunday evening was drinking at the time of the incident, prosecutors said in court on Monday.

Richard Peters, 42, made his first court appearance Monday afternoon where bail was set at $250,000. He remains jailed for investigation of first-degree manslaughter.

Snohomish County Sheriff Lt. John Flood said the man called 911 Sunday to say his daughter had been shot in the head while they were cleaning guns.

Deputies arrived at home in the 4500 block of 83rd Place West about 7:26 p.m. and found the wounded girl.

She was taken to an Everett hospital and then airlifted to Seattle where she later died.

In court documents filed Monday, Peters told detectives he had been drinking multiple double vodkas and sent his 6-year-old daughter, Stormy, up to his room to retrieve a Colt .45 Double Eagle gun that was on his nightstand.

In an interview with detectives, Peters said his daughter brought the gun down and handed it to him, and he took out the magazine and pulled the trigger, firing a shot that hit the girl in the head, according to the court documents.

Peters, who served in the Navy, told investigators that all of his kids handle guns, and that the weapon that discharged Sunday has a "hair-trigger."

In the police report, investigators wrote that Peters told them he has a concealed pistol license and goes shooting often.

The exact circumstances of the incident remain under investigation, but officials said the girl's mother, a 3-year-old and an 8-year-old sibling were also in the house at the time of the shooting.

Sheriff spokeswoman Rebecca Hover said the two children have been placed into the custody of state Child Protective Services.

Detectives were at the scene through Monday afternoon collecting evidence and removed several firearms from the home.

"It's a dangerous situation when you're cleaning guns, and you have those guns in the house and children are anywhere around, you have to be especially careful," Hover said.

The court documents filed Monday said Peters informed detectives that he accidentally discharged a gun at a pumpkin shoot in Darrington. He said a friend handed him a shotgun which he didn't know was loaded, and he accidentally fired a round.


Just fucked up

Link Posted: 11/17/2008 5:50:41 PM EDT
Okay, there we have it. He is a worthless piece of shit, and should be nailed to the wall. Period.

Definitely NO excuse for an accident like that to happen. He was fucked up on many counts.

An irresponsible fuck like this shouldn't be allowed to own guns, or cars, or power tools, or be allowed to be responsible for any child.

What a piece of shit.
Link Posted: 11/17/2008 6:12:46 PM EDT
Sheriff spokeswoman Rebecca Hover said the two children have been placed into the custody of state Child Protective Services


BWAHAHAHAH! When I first read this line I thought it said Chewbacca...

But yah, that dude needs to burn in hell... I hope he gets reminded daily, in jail what he did... If I have more than even a slight buzz, my guns don't even get looked at, let alone, cleaned... NOR do I let anyone under 18 touch them when loaded...
Link Posted: 11/17/2008 6:28:51 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Neo1130:
Sheriff spokeswoman Rebecca Hover said the two children have been placed into the custody of state Child Protective Services


BWAHAHAHAH! When I first read this line I thought it said Chewbacca...

But yah, that dude needs to burn in hell... I hope he gets reminded daily, in jail what he did... If I have more than even a slight buzz, my guns don't even get looked at, let alone, cleaned... NOR do I let anyone under 18 touch them when loaded...


Do you let any dumb fuck over 18 handle them while loaded?



It's inconceivable to me that anyone could point a gun at their 6 year old kid and pull the trigger. Dumb ass.
Link Posted: 11/17/2008 6:39:10 PM EDT
Originally Posted By HABU:
Originally Posted By Neo1130:
Sheriff spokeswoman Rebecca Hover said the two children have been placed into the custody of state Child Protective Services


BWAHAHAHAH! When I first read this line I thought it said Chewbacca...

But yah, that dude needs to burn in hell... I hope he gets reminded daily, in jail what he did... If I have more than even a slight buzz, my guns don't even get looked at, let alone, cleaned... NOR do I let anyone under 18 touch them when loaded...


Do you let any dumb fuck over 18 handle them while loaded?



It's inconceivable to me that anyone could point a gun at their 6 year old kid and pull the trigger. Dumb ass.


I don't let ANY dumb fucks handle them at all...

I do let my friends shoot my guns, but they know the rules...
Link Posted: 11/17/2008 6:46:11 PM EDT
"It's a dangerous situation when you're cleaning guns, and you have those guns in the house and children are anywhere around, you have to be especially careful," Hover said.


Okay, statements like this piss me off. It's more about blaming the gun as a whole rather than the dumb ass.


It is a shame he didnt shoot himself instead. What a worthless fuck.
Link Posted: 11/17/2008 7:11:28 PM EDT
GUNS + ALCOHOL == FAIL

R.I.P. Stormy
Link Posted: 11/17/2008 8:08:40 PM EDT
Just saw the story on Q-13. . . It seems like the guy had plenty of character references and was an active and engaged father. Guys an idiot for what he's done but they'll be no lack of suffering for this guy in the years ahead.
Link Posted: 11/17/2008 8:21:23 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Neo1130:
Originally Posted By HABU:
Originally Posted By Neo1130:
Sheriff spokeswoman Rebecca Hover said the two children have been placed into the custody of state Child Protective Services


BWAHAHAHAH! When I first read this line I thought it said Chewbacca...

But yah, that dude needs to burn in hell... I hope he gets reminded daily, in jail what he did... If I have more than even a slight buzz, my guns don't even get looked at, let alone, cleaned... NOR do I let anyone under 18 touch them when loaded...


Do you let any dumb fuck over 18 handle them while loaded?



It's inconceivable to me that anyone could point a gun at their 6 year old kid and pull the trigger. Dumb ass.


I don't let ANY dumb fucks handle them at all...

I do let my friends shoot my guns, but they know the rules...


I don't even let my parents or friends handle my guns... I "teach" them what to do before I even let them touch them... Every time we go shooting I give them the same speech about the 4 rules and i show them to SPORT (Slap Pull Observe Release Tap) Hell I don't trust them with my guns that I make them do a couple of dry runs w. dummy rounds just to make the point...

I even have my TAP ammo mag painted RED so that: A. I know which mag to pick up in case someone breaks in (I never keep the mag in the well; but I keep the action open so all I have to do is slap the mag in and push the button...) B. So that when we are at the range I know which mag has live ammo; that and I only use one mag at the range so that we have to load them every time...

I mean sure it's not efficient BUT I keep 6 mags loaded at all times (I move the ammo from mag to mag to give the springs a break)....

I guess my point is that people have different ways of treating their equipment, I'm one of those that likes to keep everything in order and control situations as much as possible. But shit like what this dude did is just irresponsible... He should get the death penalty...
Link Posted: 11/17/2008 9:13:56 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/17/2008 10:23:22 PM EDT

Finger off the trigger, muzzle pointed in a safe direction. I can't even imagine the emotions running through this family right now.

I wouldn't wish the death of a child on my worst enemy.

Not saying I wouldn't blow up a house with an Al Quida leader and his family in the house, but that is more business related then a curse.
Link Posted: 11/17/2008 10:47:28 PM EDT
Wow. I can't decide whether to be sad for the family and girl or angry at the dad. Somehow both are too intense to have more than one emotion at the same time.




When the media blames the gun, we rightly point out that the gun, a machine, is not evil, and that the accident is the fathers fault.

Yet people on here are blaming the alcohol, as if a chemical has some bullshit voodoo evil powers, when it's still the fathers fault.

So much for reasoning.
Link Posted: 11/18/2008 6:32:47 AM EDT
Never fails. Some innocent always seems to pay the freight for assholes' behavior. I would love to spend an hour in a cell with that fuktard. One minute to strangle him and 59 minutes to savor it..
Link Posted: 11/18/2008 6:51:43 AM EDT
Originally Posted By BusySquirrel:


Yet people on here are blaming the alcohol, as if a chemical has some bullshit voodoo evil powers, when it's still the fathers fault.

So much for reasoning.


Agreed, that yes it is still the fathers fault, but I admit, I do some pretty stupid shit when I drink and I loose all reasoning/logic/common sense... It doesn't sound like the dude was buzzed, but more shit faced... "After MULTIPLE double vodka's" key word multiple... "IF" and that is a strong if, he wasn't drinking, do you think this would have happened?

I never BLAMED the alcohol, I am just saying that probably had a strong part in the case here...
Link Posted: 11/18/2008 8:25:36 AM EDT
I work at not fucking up. Even then, I still do.

My PTSD just flat out interferes with normal brain function so that some steps in problem solving just get interrupted. I have to go over something several times and hope I catch it all.

It's kinda like drinking, but without the buzz. Life is hard enough to pull off gracefully w/o booze.
Link Posted: 11/18/2008 8:48:58 AM EDT
regardless of alchol, failure to visually inspect chamber or lack of muzzle control.
Who the hell sends a 6yr old to retrieve a gun, let alone a loaded 45 w/ a hair trigger??
and with 3 young kids in the house why is it in the nightstand instead of a gun safe? Quick access ones like 'gun vault' are very affordable. This man made many stupid decisions even when sober. I hope his family can get through this.
Link Posted: 11/18/2008 8:57:16 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/18/2008 8:58:27 AM EDT by Essayons]
I read about this in today's PI. The guy FAILED on so many levels . . . so many

"Hey honey, let's get drunk and clean guns"

"Hey Stormy, go grab the loaded .45 (with a 'hair trigger') off daddy's night stand."

"Let's disregard the fundamentals of firearms safety––Daddy (who has a history of NDs) will have the .45 pointed at Stormy's head with finger on the trigger AND fail to check to see if the chamber is empty after dropping the magazine."

Link Posted: 11/18/2008 10:42:03 AM EDT
Originally Posted By BusySquirrel:
Wow. I can't decide whether to be sad for the family and girl or angry at the dad. Somehow both are too intense to have more than one emotion at the same time.

When the media blames the gun, we rightly point out that the gun, a machine, is not evil, and that the accident is the fathers fault.

Yet people on here are blaming the alcohol, as if a chemical has some bullshit voodoo evil powers, when it's still the fathers fault.

So much for reasoning.


Blame lies with the dumbfuck who drank the alcohol knowing full well that it impairs judgement. Noone here is blaming the alcohol. Blame lies with a shitforbrains gun owner who would send a 6yo to fetch his loaded gun.

BUT I have to say that when alcohol and guns are brought up there is a certain segment here that doesn't seem to think that the two should be mutually exclusive.


Link Posted: 11/18/2008 11:57:55 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/18/2008 11:58:37 AM EDT by mordecai]

The court documents filed Monday said Peters informed detectives that he accidentally discharged a gun at a pumpkin shoot in Darrington. He said a friend handed him a shotgun which he didn't know was loaded, and he accidentally fired a round.


Umm... Err... Ahh.... Gee, you northern guys have a pumpkin shoot lately?
Link Posted: 11/18/2008 12:15:09 PM EDT
Originally Posted By mordecai:

The court documents filed Monday said Peters informed detectives that he accidentally discharged a gun at a pumpkin shoot in Darrington. He said a friend handed him a shotgun which he didn't know was loaded, and he accidentally fired a round.


Umm... Err... Ahh.... Gee, you northern guys have a pumpkin shoot lately?


Nope, all of the good spots are shut down.

Link Posted: 11/18/2008 12:21:15 PM EDT
Originally Posted By libertynews:
Originally Posted By BusySquirrel:
Wow. I can't decide whether to be sad for the family and girl or angry at the dad. Somehow both are too intense to have more than one emotion at the same time.

When the media blames the gun, we rightly point out that the gun, a machine, is not evil, and that the accident is the fathers fault.

Yet people on here are blaming the alcohol, as if a chemical has some bullshit voodoo evil powers, when it's still the fathers fault.

So much for reasoning.


Blame lies with the dumbfuck who drank the alcohol knowing full well that it impairs judgement. Noone here is blaming the alcohol. Blame lies with a shitforbrains gun owner who would send a 6yo to fetch his loaded gun.

BUT I have to say that when alcohol and guns are brought up there is a certain segment here that doesn't seem to think that the two should be mutually exclusive.





I have had a beer while cleaning my guns .... Hell, I might have even had two by the time I was done.

I've also handled power tools and climbed ladders after a beer or two.

Link Posted: 11/18/2008 12:22:24 PM EDT
RIP, little one.

Link Posted: 11/18/2008 2:05:37 PM EDT
Originally Posted By CrownAndSeven:
Originally Posted By libertynews:
Originally Posted By BusySquirrel:
Wow. I can't decide whether to be sad for the family and girl or angry at the dad. Somehow both are too intense to have more than one emotion at the same time.

When the media blames the gun, we rightly point out that the gun, a machine, is not evil, and that the accident is the fathers fault.

Yet people on here are blaming the alcohol, as if a chemical has some bullshit voodoo evil powers, when it's still the fathers fault.

So much for reasoning.

Blame lies with the dumbfuck who drank the alcohol knowing full well that it impairs judgement. Noone here is blaming the alcohol. Blame lies with a shitforbrains gun owner who would send a 6yo to fetch his loaded gun.

BUT I have to say that when alcohol and guns are brought up there is a certain segment here that doesn't seem to think that the two should be mutually exclusive.

I have had a beer while cleaning my guns .... Hell, I might have even had two by the time I was done.

I've also handled power tools and climbed ladders after a beer or two.


I am one. Why? because if I can't handle firearms after alcohol, I shouldn't handle them when I'm sleepy, or wired on caffeine, or A BILLION OTHER THINGS that affect judgement or coordination, too. It's real simple. If he's too drunk to handle firearms, or drive, or anything else, than he's too drunk period.

I'm not saying this as someone who advocates a dry lifestyle, I sure don't live one. I'm saying that everyone who routinely handles firearms, or drives a vehicle, or anything else that could potentially harm someone, occasionally, does it when their abilities are compromised to various degrees. And those who won't admit this are deluding themselves.

Frankly, I don't think alcohol made the situation worse, in this case, because the guys sounds like he has been an idiot for awhile now. This issue really is only irresponsible ownership and practices.
Link Posted: 11/18/2008 2:10:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/18/2008 2:12:33 PM EDT by Neo1130]
Originally Posted By BusySquirrel:
Originally Posted By CrownAndSeven:
Originally Posted By libertynews:
Originally Posted By BusySquirrel:
Wow. I can't decide whether to be sad for the family and girl or angry at the dad. Somehow both are too intense to have more than one emotion at the same time.

When the media blames the gun, we rightly point out that the gun, a machine, is not evil, and that the accident is the fathers fault.

Yet people on here are blaming the alcohol, as if a chemical has some bullshit voodoo evil powers, when it's still the fathers fault.

So much for reasoning.

Blame lies with the dumbfuck who drank the alcohol knowing full well that it impairs judgement. Noone here is blaming the alcohol. Blame lies with a shitforbrains gun owner who would send a 6yo to fetch his loaded gun.

BUT I have to say that when alcohol and guns are brought up there is a certain segment here that doesn't seem to think that the two should be mutually exclusive.

I have had a beer while cleaning my guns .... Hell, I might have even had two by the time I was done.

I've also handled power tools and climbed ladders after a beer or two.


I am one. Why? because if I can't handle firearms after alcohol, I shouldn't handle them when I'm sleepy, or wired on caffeine, or A BILLION OTHER THINGS that affect judgement or coordination, too. It's real simple. If he's too drunk to handle firearms, or drive, or anything else, than he's too drunk period.

I'm not saying this as someone who advocates a dry lifestyle, I sure don't live one. I'm saying that everyone who routinely handles firearms, or drives a vehicle, or anything else that could potentially harm someone, occasionally, does it when their abilities are compromised to various degrees. And those who won't admit this are deluding themselves.

Frankly, I don't think alcohol made the situation worse, in this case, because the guys sounds like he has been an idiot for awhile now. This issue really is only irresponsible ownership and practices.

Something tells me you've never been drunk before... Honestly, when I am drunk I totally would forget to point the gun in the other direction or check to see if it's cleared... Maybe the guy drinks A LOT... Which still is his stupidity and not the alcohol's or gun's fault...
Link Posted: 11/18/2008 4:09:25 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Neo1130:
Something tells me you've never been drunk before... Honestly, when I am drunk I totally would forget to point the gun in the other direction or check to see if it's cleared... Maybe the guy drinks A LOT... Which still is his stupidity and not the alcohol's or gun's fault...



You've never met me, have you?

No seriously, it's just that our society has bought into this prohibitionist/MADD idea that alcohol is a black and white issue, when it's not. Just like ANY other chemical substance, it's a matter of degrees of gray. Sure, I'll agree that it can make someone farther to one side of the black-to-white spectrum than they would suspect, but that's where I point the honus to the guy who makes the poor decision.

He can still do just as much harm, whether he's sober or not. His call to drop a mag then immediately pull the trigger, without checking the chamber is just as stupid, whether he did it with alcohol or marijuana or vicodin or whatever or nothing, in his system. I'm just saying let's point the finger at the only one who could have altered the course of events, and not make excuses for him by blaming the evils of the "Demon Alcohol".
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