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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 2/1/2006 1:13:56 PM EDT
Hey guys , I've been looking around at shotguns and prices.Looks loike I'm able to get anything under $600, but trying to stay around $400. I found some today,amossberg 500pump w/ scope and ghost ring for $360 ,rem. 870 wmag extention w/ bead sight for $319, and a rem.11/87 w/scope mount for$500. what is the better deal and does anyone know of any good deals.Will these shotguns be good for three gun
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 1:17:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/1/2006 1:21:45 PM EDT by KogaShuko]
Bomark I can beat that price on a mossburg 590 if you are interested. I duracoated the outside and tefloned the inside and it has sat in my trunk ever since. Basically the same stuff that came with the benelli too. Email me and I will bring it monday night for ya to look at if you want.

I noticed that the pumps can shoot just as fast as a semi if you have the right person shooting them. The limiting factor seems to be reloads not speed of firing. Look at Joe Falus's score on the 3 gun, he shot iron man which requires a pump. I would be interested in maybe seeing the sidewinder mod on one.
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 1:27:07 PM EDT
You want an auto. All serious 3 gunners (outside of Heavy Metal division) use an auto.

Besides, there are now 2 purpose-built game guns built just for our 3gun game:

Winchester Super X-2 Mk-I Practical (the gun I use) and

Remington Competition Master (version of 1100)

There is one of these latter guns for sale at the big sporting goods store off Rt. 3 near Frdericksburg (Gander Mtn?). It looked like it was missing the charging handle and that is all; otherwise nearly new.

The place for advice on game guns is the 3gun/Shotgun forum at www.brianenos.com
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 3:19:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/1/2006 3:21:30 PM EDT by Templar]
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 5:44:12 PM EDT
Good to see you Monday.

You've got fine choices in front of you.

Personally, I'd decide what class I wanted to shoot in (pumps are separated in most scoring systems). Then decide.

But my selection of these 3 is the 1187.

I'm the counter point to Tim. You'll need to take my score and multiply by 2 as Tim is smarter than me

All other things equal (and they never are)

Pumps.
They DON'T run as fast - otherwise there'd be no reason for a separation. The difference isn't huge, and ability will play a larger role than shotgun type. But most shooters will complete a course faster with a semi than a pump.

They do kick harder. Due to their lighter weight and the lack of gas operation (doesn't lesson the recoil energy much, it just spreads it out over time, recoil is less sharp). Don't listen to anything Tim says here , He doesn't know what recoil is .. and I've got some old file footage to prove it .. involves a .308 and a shoot house, and his pump shotty and buck and slugs. Anyways, less recoil can = faster shooting.

Pumps tire you a bit. If I was a match director trying to make this point I'd put up 20 clays, then require some precision/distance shooting. Again, other factors are more important (i.e. physical shape). It's just easier with a semi.

They aren't idiot proof, and they do break/jam. (not nearly as much as the semi's). I've seen every type of shotty jam/break down. Even my beloved Saigas :( . Seen a couple break parts, and the other common culprit is operator error. Short stroking the shotty.

Saiga's are just around the corner, along with affordable mags. Your welcome to borrow mine sometime if you'd like to check them out.
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 3:40:58 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/2/2006 3:42:00 AM EDT by BlackScot]
I like my 870, even though I would probably shoot faster/easier with some kind of auto. Racking the slide on each shot seems to add an element of action and excitement that the autos lack, a-la 70's-era cop-show shoot-out scenes (Dirty Harry, etc.). But I'm showing my age here.....

Things blowing up and getting slammed down, with that "ku-chunk, ku-chunk, ku-chunk" going on all the while....a real slobber-maker!
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 4:26:29 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/2/2006 5:00:38 AM EDT by Templar]
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 4:35:45 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Templar:
With a mostly plane vanilla Remington 870 Express HD.



That I bought from You-Know-Who.
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 8:53:30 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/2/2006 9:01:15 AM EDT by kdmoore]
Only semi to beat Randy was T (very accomplished shooter).

T makes my point tho, by running same match with a pump and doing so 10 sec's slower ....

That's a lot of time, and I'd guess that there is something else going on (mental slip, missed -> extra reload, rarely shoots a pump, shot pump first and course learning led to better second run, ???)

eta Also, average times show pump = 98 Semi = 87, got to admit that is a larger difference than I'd expect, but the data's only one point and the sample size is a bit small.

At capital one I use sampling of millions of customers to make decisions. I think the match needs to get larger ...
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 11:39:51 AM EDT
Well since a lot of semis are saigas they would lower the average. The reload is a big one. Like I said one time before it would be interesting to see a knox 10round drum shotgun put against a semi remington. I think the knox drum with compstock would beat it out due to reload speed.
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 1:23:57 PM EDT
I use a pump in He Man class (also called Heavy Metal Division in USPSA; not sure what you call it in IDPA 3gun). The 870 is a great gun for 3gunning where the rules require a pump.
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 1:44:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By KogaShuko:
Well since a lot of semis are saigas they would lower the average. The reload is a big one. Like I said one time before it would be interesting to see a knox 10round drum shotgun put against a semi remington. I think the knox drum with compstock would beat it out due to reload speed.



Good call on the Saiga, but I assumed they would be in open class?

To take the reloading factor out of the equation, I went back to a Norfolk match from mid last year. They had a speed shoot string, 5 clays on stands about a yard maybe 2 apart. (more distance can help a pump gun as working the action can be done in target to target transistion.). Guns loaded with 6. I took out times that look like a reload was done as outliers. Average for the pump was 4.82 Average for semi's was 3.91 (more diff than I expected, but I don't know the experience level of the group). Fastest semi was 2.59, pumps were led by 2.62 which is SCREAMING, and shows that pumps can run at same speed given certain conditions.

Romak, sorry to get all caught up in the numbers.

Here's what I believe ... All shotties can be made to run. Semis require more TLC. Semi's cycle a bit faster, with no effort. This makes a significant difference sometimes, often times it does not. Other factors matter a lot more, especially the speed of reloads (wins/looses most matches).

Is Margaret thinking of shooting it? If so, I'd surely go 1187 because of recoil. Better yet, there is a Saiga 20 listed in the EE that would do her well.
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 1:48:33 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 4:18:19 PM EDT

Otherwise, spend the money and get the Benelli M1014.......Choice of the USMC.




No complaints with the M4 here...the choice of fashionable west-end'ers...

Ya know, Tim...I haven't been spending a lot of money since you moved into a new line of business...

Link Posted: 2/3/2006 3:51:54 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/3/2006 3:52:27 AM EDT by BlackScot]

Originally Posted By kdmoore:
...sorry to get all caught up in the numbers....



Yeah buddy, you must be Da Man at work (and I'm supposed to be a "scientist"....)

But to paraphrase Shakespear: "The fun's the thing."

Many of us here are willing to let you try out our gear. (You can catch up with me and my 870 at Cavalier almost any Friday afternoon if you want. Just email.) Borrow both a pump and a semi of some kind, and see which one gets you most foaming at the mouth.

Only then will you really know.
Link Posted: 2/9/2006 1:13:59 PM EDT
Well I'd like to thank everyone who replied to this post and gave advise. I ended up getting from a friend ,a MOSSBERG 590 w/ two stocks, shell saddle, extended mag, duracoat outter and teflon coated on the inside, carry case. I think I will be very happy with this shotgun and am ready for some shooting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Link Posted: 2/10/2006 5:29:47 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/10/2006 5:30:07 AM EDT by BlackScot]

Originally Posted By RomakIII:
I ended up getting from a friend ,a MOSSBERG 590 ......



Pump It! Puh-UHMP It !!!


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