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Posted: 7/28/2007 7:14:59 AM EDT
Just wondering if any of you have seen a 30.06 sign here in Austin or the area. Just trying to get a list of the business that will not see any of my money. Thanks Wes
Link Posted: 7/28/2007 9:19:24 AM EDT
I've seen them at taco cabana, but I don't think the letters are 1" high like required.
Link Posted: 7/28/2007 9:22:36 AM EDT
I have seen few of these signs and don't recall any particular place that has them posted.

You have a good idea - I'll start making a note of anyplace I see one.
Link Posted: 7/28/2007 7:12:26 PM EDT
Maudie's Milagro on 360 has the 51% signs (hidden behind the bar where nobody can see it no less). But I guess it isn't their fault that their patrons purchase more booze than food. They don't get my money either.
Link Posted: 7/29/2007 10:59:35 AM EDT
Places that sell alcohol for "ON PREMISES" consumption are required by TABC to post the 51% sign. You should not "not" go there because they are following the rules and regulations they fall under.

The previous posting is asking who is voluntarily posting the 30.06 sign to keep law abiding people from going there. I agree and will at all cost not go to "these" places. FYI Seton hospital has the 30.06 signs posted at their locations.
Link Posted: 7/29/2007 11:02:15 AM EDT
I have not seen the 30.06 signs at any of the Taco cabana's I have gone to. They do post the standard NON-licensed signs as required by TABC for ALL establishments that serve alcohol for drinking on sight.
Link Posted: 7/29/2007 2:24:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mattctx:
Places that sell alcohol for "ON PREMISES" consumption are required by TABC to post the 51% sign. You should not "not" go there because they are following the rules and regulations they fall under.

The previous posting is asking who is voluntarily posting the 30.06 sign to keep law abiding people from going there. I agree and will at all cost not go to "these" places.


+1. Bars and such don't have a choice. All others get a card from TSRA and not one penny from me or anyone else I can convince.
Link Posted: 7/29/2007 2:48:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mattctx:
Places that sell alcohol for "ON PREMISES" consumption are required by TABC to post the 51% sign.


The 51% sign is only required at places that actually derive at least 51% of their profits from alcohol sales (i.e. bars). Places that sell alcohol, but makes up less than 51% of their sales must hang up a different sign that starts out with, "The unlicenses possession of a firearm . . . " That sign does not affect CHL holders since that are licensed. The 51% sign starts out with, "The licenses or unlicenses possession of a firearm . . . " and does prohibit CHL holders from carrying.

Back on topic, the Taco Cabanas I've seen with 30.06 signs were at 183/Anderson Mill and another at I-35/Wells Branch.
Link Posted: 7/29/2007 3:16:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By topgunpilot20:

Originally Posted By mattctx:
Places that sell alcohol for "ON PREMISES" consumption are required by TABC to post the 51% sign.


The 51% sign is only required at places that actually derive at least 51% of their profits from alcohol sales (i.e. bars). Places that sell alcohol, but makes up less than 51% of their sales must hang up a different sign that starts out with, "The unlicenses possession of a firearm . . . " That sign does not affect CHL holders since that are licensed. The 51% sign starts out with, "The licenses or unlicenses possession of a firearm . . . " and does prohibit CHL holders from carrying.

Back on topic, the Taco Cabanas I've seen with 30.06 signs were at 183/Anderson Mill and another at I-35/Wells Branch.


Just to be accurate, the 51% sign is meaningless in regards to carry there or not. The law simply makes it illegal to carry into a place that derives 51% or more of its INCOME, not profits, from the sale or service of alcoholic beverages for on premise consumption. The law does not require a 51% notice for you to be charged/prosecuted, nor is the lack of a sign a defense if you carry there.

If a place that is not 51% posts the 51% sign, carry there is not illegal.

For reference;


Texas Penal Code § 46.035. UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE
HOLDER.

(b) A license holder commits an offense if the license
holder intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun
under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code,
regardless of whether the handgun is concealed, on or about the
license holder's person:
(1) on the premises of a business that has a permit or
license issued under Chapter 25, 28, 32, 69, or 74, Alcoholic
Beverage Code, if the business derives 51 percent or more of its
income from the sale or service of alcoholic beverages for
on-premises consumption, as determined by the Texas Alcoholic
Beverage Commission under Section 104.06, Alcoholic Beverage Code


The TABC DOES require that 51% places post a sign, but the sign's presence has no effect on TPC 46.035.
Link Posted: 7/29/2007 3:25:08 PM EDT
There is a website started to catalog these places - just getting started but a neat place - texas3006.com/
Link Posted: 7/29/2007 4:05:15 PM EDT
Ya I got no problem with a bar that posts a 51% sign. Not there fault it is the states. besides I'm be damned if I stay out for a bar cus I cant carry in there, lol Its the only place if feel safe without a gun JK. Im talking about just plain business that dont want a law abiding carrying citizen on the premises
Link Posted: 7/29/2007 5:03:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mattctx:
I have not seen the 30.06 signs at any of the Taco cabana's I have gone to. They do post the standard NON-licensed signs as required by TABC for ALL establishments that serve alcohol for drinking on sight.


All of the TCs that I have been to in DFW, Austin, SA and Houston have 30.06 signs. They are in a frame, I think 8" x 11" landscape, located just inside the entrance, typically on the left side. They are placed there along with all the local and state business licenses and permits. They are visible from outside the entrance if you know what to look for and crane your neck around just right. At some stores they have a 2nd 30.06 sign behind the cashier next to the tabc permits.


mm
Link Posted: 7/29/2007 8:47:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mattctx:
Places that sell alcohol for "ON PREMISES" consumption are required by TABC to post the 51% sign. You should not "not" go there because they are following the rules and regulations they fall under.


Well, it's a little hard to not "not" go there if I'm always carrying. And I won't make a special trip out there without my carry just so I can. I don't blame them, I'm just stating how it is.

Anyway, the TC at parmer and mopac also has the 30.06 sign. Actually, I don't see the 30.06 often (and I am always on the lookout for them). It's either businesses here aren't too keen on advertising to criminals to rob them or I don't frequent the places that do. I run into employers that are more anti-gun than brick-and-mortar stores.
Link Posted: 7/29/2007 9:20:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Freakinout:


+1. Bars and such don't have a choice. All others get a card from TSRA and not one penny from me or anyone else I can convince.



What do you mean by the above, is there a way to let them know you've reported them as anti-RKBA?
Link Posted: 7/30/2007 4:12:28 AM EDT

Originally Posted By MonkTx:

Originally Posted By Freakinout:


+1. Bars and such don't have a choice. All others get a card from TSRA and not one penny from me or anyone else I can convince.



What do you mean by the above, is there a way to let them know you've reported them as anti-RKBA?


CHL Business Cards

Those little fellas.
Link Posted: 7/30/2007 5:35:53 AM EDT

Originally Posted By txinvestigator:

Originally Posted By topgunpilot20:

Originally Posted By mattctx:
Places that sell alcohol for "ON PREMISES" consumption are required by TABC to post the 51% sign.


The 51% sign is only required at places that actually derive at least 51% of their profits from alcohol sales (i.e. bars). Places that sell alcohol, but makes up less than 51% of their sales must hang up a different sign that starts out with, "The unlicenses possession of a firearm . . . " That sign does not affect CHL holders since that are licensed. The 51% sign starts out with, "The licenses or unlicenses possession of a firearm . . . " and does prohibit CHL holders from carrying.

Back on topic, the Taco Cabanas I've seen with 30.06 signs were at 183/Anderson Mill and another at I-35/Wells Branch.


Just to be accurate, the 51% sign is meaningless in regards to carry there or not. The law simply makes it illegal to carry into a place that derives 51% or more of its INCOME, not profits, from the sale or service of alcoholic beverages for on premise consumption. The law does not require a 51% notice for you to be charged/prosecuted, nor is the lack of a sign a defense if you carry there.

If a place that is not 51% posts the 51% sign, carry there is not illegal.

For reference;


Texas Penal Code § 46.035. UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE
HOLDER.

(b) A license holder commits an offense if the license
holder intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun
under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code,
regardless of whether the handgun is concealed, on or about the
license holder's person:
(1) on the premises of a business that has a permit or
license issued under Chapter 25, 28, 32, 69, or 74, Alcoholic
Beverage Code, if the business derives 51 percent or more of its
income from the sale or service of alcoholic beverages for
on-premises consumption, as determined by the Texas Alcoholic
Beverage Commission under Section 104.06, Alcoholic Beverage Code


The TABC DOES require that 51% places post a sign, but the sign's presence has no effect on TPC 46.035.


The sign itself doesn't have a direct impact on TPC 46.035, but I think you might be able to make an argument that if something that looked like a restaurant didn't have one posted that you were not "intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly" carrying into that establishment. I did go into something that I thought was a restaurant in Austin and was surprised by the 51% sign. Had I not seen it, I'd have had my lunch and not thought about it.

Link Posted: 7/30/2007 2:31:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/30/2007 2:33:21 PM EDT by topgunpilot20]

Originally Posted By pliftkl:

Originally Posted By txinvestigator:

Originally Posted By topgunpilot20:

Originally Posted By mattctx:
Places that sell alcohol for "ON PREMISES" consumption are required by TABC to post the 51% sign.


The 51% sign is only required at places that actually derive at least 51% of their profits from alcohol sales (i.e. bars). Places that sell alcohol, but makes up less than 51% of their sales must hang up a different sign that starts out with, "The unlicenses possession of a firearm . . . " That sign does not affect CHL holders since that are licensed. The 51% sign starts out with, "The licenses or unlicenses possession of a firearm . . . " and does prohibit CHL holders from carrying.

Back on topic, the Taco Cabanas I've seen with 30.06 signs were at 183/Anderson Mill and another at I-35/Wells Branch.


Just to be accurate, the 51% sign is meaningless in regards to carry there or not. The law simply makes it illegal to carry into a place that derives 51% or more of its INCOME, not profits, from the sale or service of alcoholic beverages for on premise consumption. The law does not require a 51% notice for you to be charged/prosecuted, nor is the lack of a sign a defense if you carry there.

If a place that is not 51% posts the 51% sign, carry there is not illegal.

For reference;


Texas Penal Code § 46.035. UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE
HOLDER.

(b) A license holder commits an offense if the license
holder intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun
under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code,
regardless of whether the handgun is concealed, on or about the
license holder's person:
(1) on the premises of a business that has a permit or
license issued under Chapter 25, 28, 32, 69, or 74, Alcoholic
Beverage Code, if the business derives 51 percent or more of its
income from the sale or service of alcoholic beverages for
on-premises consumption, as determined by the Texas Alcoholic
Beverage Commission under Section 104.06, Alcoholic Beverage Code


The TABC DOES require that 51% places post a sign, but the sign's presence has no effect on TPC 46.035.


The sign itself doesn't have a direct impact on TPC 46.035, but I think you might be able to make an argument that if something that looked like a restaurant didn't have one posted that you were not "intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly" carrying into that establishment. I did go into something that I thought was a restaurant in Austin and was surprised by the 51% sign. Had I not seen it, I'd have had my lunch and not thought about it.



The penal code defines "recklessly" as knowing that your actions could cause an offense. A conviction depends on whether the jury decides you knew the premises could derive 51% of its income from alcohol.

ETA: If txinvestigator corrects me, trust him; he knows this stuff a lot better than me.
Link Posted: 7/30/2007 2:44:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By LonghornAR:
Maudie's Milagro on 360 has the 51% signs (hidden behind the bar where nobody can see it no less). But I guess it isn't their fault that their patrons purchase more booze than food. They don't get my money either.



These are required by law, and issued by the .gov.

If they fit the requirements and do not have them up they can get in big trouble.

Hardly their fault.
Link Posted: 7/30/2007 2:52:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By topgunpilot20:
The penal code defines "recklessly" as knowing that your actions could cause an offense. A conviction depends on whether the jury decides you knew the premises could derive 51% of its income from alcohol.

ETA: If txinvestigator corrects me, trust him; he knows this stuff a lot better than me.


That's how I read that as well. There are lots of bars that are obviously bars, and you'd have to be an idiot to think that they weren't bars whether there was a 51% sign or not. What would be trickier would be something that looks like a hole-in-wall restaurant that is not in a "bar district" that might happen to have a 51% license but has failed to display the sign.

Link Posted: 7/30/2007 3:46:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By topgunpilot20:

Originally Posted By pliftkl:

Originally Posted By txinvestigator:

Originally Posted By topgunpilot20:

Originally Posted By mattctx:
Places that sell alcohol for "ON PREMISES" consumption are required by TABC to post the 51% sign.


The 51% sign is only required at places that actually derive at least 51% of their profits from alcohol sales (i.e. bars). Places that sell alcohol, but makes up less than 51% of their sales must hang up a different sign that starts out with, "The unlicenses possession of a firearm . . . " That sign does not affect CHL holders since that are licensed. The 51% sign starts out with, "The licenses or unlicenses possession of a firearm . . . " and does prohibit CHL holders from carrying.

Back on topic, the Taco Cabanas I've seen with 30.06 signs were at 183/Anderson Mill and another at I-35/Wells Branch.


Just to be accurate, the 51% sign is meaningless in regards to carry there or not. The law simply makes it illegal to carry into a place that derives 51% or more of its INCOME, not profits, from the sale or service of alcoholic beverages for on premise consumption. The law does not require a 51% notice for you to be charged/prosecuted, nor is the lack of a sign a defense if you carry there.

If a place that is not 51% posts the 51% sign, carry there is not illegal.

For reference;


Texas Penal Code § 46.035. UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE
HOLDER.

(b) A license holder commits an offense if the license
holder intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun
under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code,
regardless of whether the handgun is concealed, on or about the
license holder's person:
(1) on the premises of a business that has a permit or
license issued under Chapter 25, 28, 32, 69, or 74, Alcoholic
Beverage Code, if the business derives 51 percent or more of its
income from the sale or service of alcoholic beverages for
on-premises consumption, as determined by the Texas Alcoholic
Beverage Commission under Section 104.06, Alcoholic Beverage Code


The TABC DOES require that 51% places post a sign, but the sign's presence has no effect on TPC 46.035.


The sign itself doesn't have a direct impact on TPC 46.035, but I think you might be able to make an argument that if something that looked like a restaurant didn't have one posted that you were not "intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly" carrying into that establishment. I did go into something that I thought was a restaurant in Austin and was surprised by the 51% sign. Had I not seen it, I'd have had my lunch and not thought about it.



The penal code defines "recklessly" as knowing that your actions could cause an offense. A conviction depends on whether the jury decides you knew the premises could derive 51% of its income from alcohol.

ETA: If txinvestigator corrects me, trust him; he knows this stuff a lot better than me.


lol
I'll just list the definition of reckless;


§ 6.03. DEFINITIONS OF CULPABLE MENTAL STATES.

(c) A person acts recklessly, or is reckless, with respect
to circumstances surrounding his conduct or the result of his
conduct when he is aware of but consciously disregards a
substantial and unjustifiable risk that the circumstances exist or
the result will occur. The risk must be of such a nature and degree
that its disregard constitutes a gross deviation from the standard
of care that an ordinary person would exercise under all the
circumstances as viewed from the actor's standpoint.


Link Posted: 7/30/2007 5:10:04 PM EDT
The Killeen Regional Airport used to have Gun-Buster Signs and took them down when they were informed that: a. The signs had no legal standing and b. The state had pre-empted muncicipalities from posting public property. Recently, they had a TABC 51% sign on the door and when I asked, was told that guns were not allowed, because there was a bar in the airport. When I asked if the one bar provided more than 51% of the profit for all the concessionaires at the airport to include the car rental agencies, etc, I was simply told that because they had a bar, they could ban guns in the non-secured, public areas. BS, but I don't want to be the test case.
Link Posted: 7/30/2007 5:12:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/30/2007 5:14:17 PM EDT by TinLeg]

Originally Posted By AF-Odin:
The Killeen Regional Airport used to have Gun-Buster Signs and took them down when they were informed that: a. The signs had no legal standing and b. The state had pre-empted muncicipalities from posting public property. Recently, they had a TABC 51% sign on the door and when I asked, was told that guns were not allowed, because there was a bar in the airport. When I asked if the one bar provided more than 51% of the profit for all the concessionaires at the airport to include the car rental agencies, etc, I was simply told that because they had a bar, they could ban guns in the non-secured, public areas. BS, but I don't want to be the test case.



It is BS. Its also illegal to falsely post the 51% sign. Could likely be solved with a call to whatever Texas agency is in charge of the CHL program.
Link Posted: 7/30/2007 8:14:44 PM EDT
The laws regulates 1" block lettering and that a sign be posted at eye level at every major entrance. All the Taco Cabana stores here in San Antonio are in violation. Waist level signs, smaller lettering and usually only on one door. So technically they do not meet the requirements to regulate carry in the store. My CHL should be here any day, I do not plan on testing anyones policies though. just a thought.
Link Posted: 7/31/2007 9:23:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By BruceLeroy:
The laws regulates 1" block lettering and that a sign be posted at eye level at every major entrance. All the Taco Cabana stores here in San Antonio are in violation. Waist level signs, smaller lettering and usually only on one door. So technically they do not meet the requirements to regulate carry in the store. My CHL should be here any day, I do not plan on testing anyones policies though. just a thought.


1" letters are required by the statute, but it says nothing about being at eye level.

The TC signs of which you write are not "in violation" of anything. They are just unenforceable.

Link Posted: 7/31/2007 9:25:29 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TinLeg:


It is BS. Its also illegal to falsely post the 51% sign. Could likely be solved with a call to whatever Texas agency is in charge of the CHL program.


It is against TABC regulations to post a 51% sign in a non 51% facility. TABC would be who to report to.

Texas DPS runs the CHL program, but has no authority over the posting of signs under the CHL laws.
Link Posted: 8/12/2007 10:10:20 PM EDT
HEY YOU GUYS. JUST BECOME A COP AND DON'T WORRY ABOUT IT!
Link Posted: 8/13/2007 8:42:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By dre986:
HEY YOU GUYS. JUST BECOME A COP AND DON'T WORRY ABOUT IT!

Uh huh....
All people are equal. It's just that some are more equal than others.
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