I like the looks of the October dates...But if everyone wants November I try to swing that too.

October is good with me.......that is like a year away though.....

Quoted: Ammunition required: 600 rounds of pistol ammo per student. 1200 rounds of carbine ammo per student.

Bring WAY more......

Quoted: Especially pistol ammo Sorry Shivan, I had to do it

[Ben Stein]Ouch.  Quit it.[/Ben Stein]

Quoted: I'm in for Phase 1, whenever. If it can work out, I like Hoplophile's idea of doing phase 1 in the spring, phase 2 in the fall, allowing guys to catch up.

There is one problem with doing it that way, there would only be 4 extra slots in the Phase II class, if everyone who attended in June comes back out.




I agree with everyone on the issue of ammo. I would definitely say no less then 1K of pistol and 2K of rifle. You can always bring the ammo home with you, and that is better then worrying if you are going to run out or not.

Very cool.

Phase II - October!

Quoted: There is one problem with doing it that way, there would only be 4 extra slots in the Phase II class, if everyone who attended in June comes back out.

I agree, seems like it would cause some grief...

Quoted: im intrested in at least the spring phase one and if i can afford it i am intested in Phase II. Where is this going to be Town and state?

This will be at Blackwater USA, which is in Moyock, NC.

Quoted: when do you have to know by if we are going to attend?

Once Dinger sets the dates, he'll post the time tables for each class. At least that is what he did the last time.

Here are some Phase II ideas I've got.  I just want to say, whatever it ultimately becomes, I know it will be well worth it!



1)  Would like to see a relatively short evening session (2-3 hours) covering things like:

--employing weapon lights on rifles
--employing hand-held lights with sidearms
--preserving dark vision when using lights
--scanning for targets in the dark (i.e., how your vision does and doesn't work at night)
--safety rules/techniques for two or more 'friendlies' shooting in the dark (positional awareness, fields of fire, etc. so you don't shoot each other)
--perhaps a lesson/demo on the effects/beneifits of muzzle flash and a flash suppressor in terms of A) your night vision (as in your eyes) B) effect on optics (NV if ya got it!)  C) flash signature/being identified

2)  Unkown distance range

3)  Engaging single/multiple targets from random/unknown locations, exposing themselves for limited time (pop-up targets, the ditto range for all you Ft Knox alumni!)

4)  Moving under direct fire...  possibly two man teams leap-frogging forward, once covers/one moves, etc.   We did a lot of lateral movement and working from stationary cover last time, adding the 'forward dimension' would be great.  Seeking cover, choosing cover, what is effective cover, etc.  The possibility of move/cover in pairs is even better.

5)  Sprinkled throughout other training - more reinforcement of the basics like malfunction clearing, etc.  (I can just hear Doug yelling JAM! at random points forcing a clearing when you weren't expecting it.  Of course, Ed won't need anyone to *yell* jam...)

6)  Shotgun - Perhaps not a full-blown shotgun day but perhaps a 1/2 day combat shotgun basics, maybe in conjunction with a half-day of something like the unknown distance range or the night session?

7)  More carbine shooting on something like the 100 yd range we used on the last day.  Doing more work on targets from 25-100 yds in conjuction with all of these other things as opposed to the sub-25 yd ranges.  (extend the range, make it harder!)

8)  I wouldn't mind some long-distance shooting, like out to 600 yds.  I (and I would guess a lot of folks) rarely or never get the opportunity to shoot at that distance given the public ranges available to most of us.  Even a half-day of basic techniques for shooting at these ranges and a modest amount of trigger time would be awesome.  (part of what is so great about these trips is the chance to do/see/learn things you normally would never get to do, even if its only a brief exposure)

9)  Responding to threats while in various, non-ideal positions.  For example, sitting in your car and having to respond to a threat.  At the ATM machine and having to respond to a threat.  At the local 7-11, needing to fight your way across the parking lot with your sidearm to retrieve your carbine or shotgun from your vehicle and then neutralize the threat.  In other words, not starting from a position of being fully loaded, with 732 mags hanging off of you.  Needing to respond when not ready and gain control of a situation that is not in your control...

10)  It would be very cool to learn how to fight within the confines of your house.  (the CQB, room clearing drills, etc.)  However, given our limited time/funds/etc., I don't see us being able to do one-at-a-time drills in the shoot house or making use of simunitions.  However, it could be very useful to learn some of these techniques without shooting.  Would probably be limited in scope and time but might be able to come up with something here.  (one thing I can think of is the negative washout/reflection effect of overly powerful flashlights off the walls in your hallway - wait, that might put an end to Grant's Surefire business!)

11)  Bayonet drills/charges...  OK, just kidding!

Here are a few of the things I've already passed along to dinger.

I would like to see more work done with doing transitions, especially while moving.


I would like to see more drills done while moving.


More moving target drills, especially with the rifle.


More work on shooting from cover.


Definitely unknown distance range.


I also brought up the idea of doing some room clearing excercises. Paul has told me that Blackwater will not allow any live fire in the shoot houses until we want to do a phase 3 class. I figured even if we could do some dry runs through rooms on the the third day, just to prepare for a phase 3 class would be great.  I think some force on force time with simunitions would be great too.


Doug as our instructor again.