AK Build Party

Thread title change.

Build party totally, completely, 100% full now.
We have between 20-25 builders.  Some builders are going to try and complete 2 or more rifles.  So at this build we're looking at around 30 rifles to be completed, maybe more.

Anybody else wanting to participate and build, post in this thread and I'll add you to a backup list.  If you want to come to hang out and lend a hand, you're still welcome.  But with a large number of people trying to use a limited number of tools, we won't get anything done.

Date/time: Saturday 1/19/2008 - Build starts @ 8am

Place: Bergen Rod and Gun Club, Bergen NY.  Outside of Rochester.  For those unfamiliar, it's a nice club with plenty of space and worked out well for us on the last build.  Thanks to screen-name for offering again!

Of course, all members are welcomed to attend regardless of experience level.  This is a learning experience as much as anything.  You can come to build, come to lend a hand, or you can come to drink beer and tell us how it's done.  It's a great chance to spend some quality time with your fellow ARFcommers.

We'll need to figure out who's bringing what tools.  Lets try to get the same stuff as last year- Hydraulic press, bench vice, clamps, grinders, Dremel tools, drill presses/drill bits, rivet tool, and all other manner of hand tools.

*--*--*--*--*--*

List of members interested so far: (I'll update as we go, add/remove people)
thirsty
fighter443
raysheen
Rich219
screen-name + friend
Dieter122
fp1201
naes
adirondack47
SWATsnip3r
liquidneba
jma5000
cowboyrick
brain
Cold
jrkarp
frtyfivsevnty
XChaosX
EdwardAvila
GoatBoy
EdAvilaSr
Adirondack1
LuvBUSHmaster
MPi-KMS-72
ARtraffic
VP of the Bergen Club
corpsman (from AK Forum)
mgriff
NY_crawler

*--*--*--*--*--*

Tools for the build and who's bringing them:

thirsty: rivet jig, barrel press kit, trigger guard jig, Dremel tool, pennies (for pressing barrels), Kroil, drill bits, C-clamps, spring clamps, hand tools
Rich219: drill press, grinder, punches, heat gun
raysheen: drill press, hand tools, bolt cutter rivet sqeezers?
liquidneba: Dremel tool
fp1201: MIG welder w/Argon gas, oxy/acetylene torches, 4" grinder, 6" grinder, punches, hammers, drills/bits, cross-feed vice, drill press
adirondack47: Dremel tool, 4 lb. hammer, drill bits, heavy duty punches
Cold: Duracoating equipment
frtyfivsevnty: 20-ton press, rivet jig, trigger guard jig, barrel fixture
XChaosX: grinders, Dremels, drill press, bench vice, hydraulic press
LuvBUSHmaster: grinder, 6" vice
ARtraffic: Drill press, various hand tools
NY_crawler: Rivet tool, Dremel, grinder, bolt cutter rivet squeezer, other tools

Tool list:
2 shop presses
5 drill presses w/ lots of drill bits
5+ grinders
4+ Dremels
2 rivet tools
Bolt cutter rivet squeezers?
2 trigger guard tools
2 barrel press kits
1 manual threaded barrel press tool for longer barreled rifles
MIG welder w/gas
Oxy/Acetylene torches
3 vices (bench/cross feed)
A few sets of punches
At least 2 hammers
A few C-clamps
4 spring clamps
Other hand tools
Duracoating set-up for finishing work
Heat gun

*--*--*--*--*--*

Group Buys:

NIW Bulgarian HUNGARIAN pre-ban 30-round AK-47 mags: 100 magazines = $12.50 each
Cold - 10
jrkarp - 8
thirsty - 10
screen-name - 4
liquidneba - 13
screen-name's friends - 8
Adirondack1 - 4
SWATsnip3r - 5
frtyfivsevnty - 4
brain - 8-10
Total - 74-76/100 magazines
We need to buy 100 for quantity discount!

Compliance Parts: G2 trigger set, gas piston, and muzzle brake (subject to change based on need...)
thirsty - 2 sets
SWATsnip3r - 1 set
jrkarp - 2 sets
Cold - 2 sets
Total - 7/30 sets
We need to buy 30 sets for quantity discount!
You're on your own here...

Bulgarian WASP 5.45x39mm ammo: $119.37 per 1080 round tin (raysheen is handling this one)
adirondack47 - 2-4 tins
thirsty - 2 tins
raysheen - 1 tin
Cold - 2 tins
jrkarp - 2 tins

Kits we have:
1 Yugo M70
1 Romanian PSL
3 Polish Tantal
1 Yugo M72 RPK
3 Bulgarian fixed stock AK-74
2 Romy G
1 .223 RPK
1 MAK-90
3 Galil

*--*--*--*--*--*

I would be interested in learning the how too's of AK building....Especially a Galil.....!

I'd be in for another one...I have tons of kits, but I'm not planning on building many of them while I'm in NY since I don't really want to build them as ban compliant rifles...but I'm sure I can pull a romy kit out of storage that I wouldn't mind neutering. Not sure if you have looked into it yet but the virgin M70 kits are a lot of work...much more than a demil. I know a place that has some good condition demilled M70s though if you are interested then drop me a line.
Copes still has some $89.95 "rusty" Romanian kits which is a heck of a deal since most people refinish the gun after a build anyway.

In any event, I'd be up for another build...I think screen-name was the one who arranged the location last time perhaps we could use that place again? it worked well for me.

Anyone have a spot welder? perhaps we could do a bending party followed by a building party on two different occasions over the course of the winter...just a thought.

I'm up for a build party. Wouldn't mind building another 1 or 2.

yeah, I think i'd be into another build. and we can use my club again. that seemed to work out fairly well last time. I dont think I want to get into bending my own, I'd prolly just buy one from nodak. although I'd love to look into a .223 gali, or an underfolder, but i dont think that would be NY OK.
what ever you guys decide, your more than welcome to go though me and use the club. and i'll more than likly be building with you guys.

Quoted: yeah, I think i'd be into another build. and we can use my club again. that seemed to work out fairly well last time. I dont think I want to get into bending my own, I'd prolly just buy one from nodak. although I'd love to look into a .223 gali, or an underfolder, but i dont think that would be NY OK. what ever you guys decide, your more than welcome to go though me and use the club. and i'll more than likly be building with you guys.

I'm pretty sure there are ways to pin the underfolder open with a rivet.  If you ever get out of NY, you can simply drill the rivet out and have a functioning underfolder again.

ETA: Either that, or assemble the rifle with a fixed stock instead.

i got a number of kits i need built...hmmmMmmm

got the gears turning now!

you guys have got me looking through my kits again...never good because it always ends up costing more money...thankfully I already have most of what I need for a build including many kits and receivers.
I have a Soviet AKM, Russian Type 2, Yugo U/F M70, couple of Yugo Fixed M70s, Bulgarian AK74s, Bulgarian AKS74U Krink, Tantal, a few AMD65s, a couple of Hungarian AMMS, and a bunch of Romy Gs
I don't really want to screw up my rarer kits by grinding the bayos off and I'd rather save them until I move out of state which is in the foreseeable future...that only leaves me with a couple of options...the AKS74U doesn't have a bayo lug but NYS and the ATF would probably frown upon my Form 1 submission for an SBR ...so that leaves me with an AMD65 that has a permanently fixed open stock, an AMD65 with a wood stock (loose the wire folder) and bbl extension...sort of an AMD63 clone with an AMD65 length gas system, or some sort of Romy G build that I can grind on and beat on and not worry about it...maybe a beater "truck gun" of sorts

After several months of waiting, the two Armory USA receivers I ordered arrived, so when there's a build party I would attend....*&^%$#@ sheet metal guns.

Whereabouts do you guys usualy meet?

Is this open to newcomers/ones who don't know how to build?

I would definitly enjoy learning how to assemble my own AK.

Quoted: Whereabouts do you guys usualy meet? Is this open to newcomers/ones who don't know how to build? I would definitly enjoy learning how to assemble my own AK.

We met last time and will probably meet again in Bergen NY. New comers are always welcome, i think 90% of us had never built an AK until the last build party.

Quoted: *&^%$#@ sheet metal guns.

ahhhh so you couldn't resist another huh?  

Quoted: Whereabouts do you guys usualy meet? Is this open to newcomers/ones who don't know how to build? I would definitly enjoy learning how to assemble my own AK.

as rich said you are more than welcome to attend! It's a pretty informal get together and we all help out where needed. it's a fun day bringing some poor cut up guns back to life.

heh ...speaking of new guys..

i am totally new to building AKs, and have almost zero mechanical skill...is that a obstacle/problem?

Quoted: heh ...speaking of new guys.. i am totally new to building AKs, and have almost zero mechanical skill...is that a obstacle/problem?

Dieter the lack of your mechanical skill is a well known and often discussed fact of internet lore. I don't know what it's all about, but I've read about you breaking lots of things and we've never even met.

seriously though they are very forgiving builds...nobody's first build is beautiful, but just about all of them work. It can be a very crude building process involving beating on the gun with a large hammer until it works...it's no swiss watch but it will run just as good as one when you are done. Besides if you have a problem with anything then you can always ask for help..that's the whole point of the build party everyone helps everyone else.

Quoted: After several months of waiting, the two Armory USA receivers I ordered arrived, so when there's a build party I would attend....*&^%$#@ sheet metal guns.

Ab-so-fuckin-loutely i would be in for a build. Probably just for 74's as I have 3 kits that have sat in my closet for the last 4 years since i got home from college collecting dust. We could probably make it a 47/74 party so long as things worked out as smoothly as they did last time. Member "Gunwolf"'s gear and guidance was integral to the build, hopefully we can enlist his services again. Lets start hammering out a date. So long as it doesnt fall during deer season(northern tier) ill be there will bell's and fuckin whistles.

anyone know the cheapest place to get a good condition 74 kit?

So, how much does it cost to build an AK-74?  Will it end up cheaper OR of better quality than the Romanian '47s at Sarco?

And where about would this build party take place?

-WhyTanFox

Quoted: anyone know the cheapest place to get a good condition 74 kit?

www.ohiorapidfire.com has wood stocked kits for $339 and and AK74S folders for $350 they come with mag, stripper clips, cleaning kit, sling, baoy, and in the case of the 74S a drop case

I got some a while back when the prices were lower and they have really good kits.

Quoted: anyone know the cheapest place to get a good condition 74 kit?

Copes Distributing has AK-74U's, which are Krinkov-sized SBR's; you'll need a 'fake can' barrel extension permanently installed to get a full 16", plus the kit costs greater than $600.   They have Polish Tantal AK-74 kits too.  I'm going with the Tantal because it'll just be easier.  I need to figure out whether I can get an AK-74 fixed stock receiver and trunnion instead of an underfolder so I don't have to mess with pinning open a folding stock.  ETA: Maybe I'll go with a Bulgarian fixed stock kit from ORF instead of a Tantal.

I may have a PSL-54C to build too.  But that build will be more in depth as I'll have to tap and drill each rivet hole, spot weld in the bolt carrier rails, and heat treat an 80% receiver before assembly.

Quoted: So, how much does it cost to build an AK-74?  Will it end up cheaper OR of better quality than the Romanian '47s at Sarco? And where about would this build party take place? -WhyTanFox

a Bulgarian 74 will cost more and will generally be higher quality than the Sarco 47s...actually if you build your own Romanian G then it will be much higher quality than a Sarco 47...it's not Romanian guns themselves that have a bad reputation, it's the places in the states that build them that have the bad reputation...some people think that romanian AKs suck because their only experience with them is a Century WASR with canted sights and poor finish work....the G kits are the best deal out there in 47s and can be built into a very nice rifle indeed.

If you are going strictly for a low cost then you can build a decent romanian G kit for
kit $120 +ship
NDS-3 receiver for $55 shipped
rivets $10 + ship
compliance parts $50 +ship

If you are looking for something else than the biggest thing that will change is the cost of the kit....receiver costs can also be upwards of $100 on some of the guns...but most are in the $60-$80 range shipped

My opinion is that you can't go wrong with a Romanian gun and you can make it into a halfway decent clone of just about anything...though if you already have a bunch of 5.45 stocked up then it might make sense to go with a 74

places for kits and accessories:
74 kits www.ohiorapidfire.com
47 kits www.copesdist.com
compliance parts www.midwestarmory.com
rivets www.ak-builder.com

if we are really going to do a group build then we should do bulk orders like we did last time to cut down on the shipping costs since copes and midwest both have flat rate shipping

Quoted: And where about would this build party take place?

Bergen, NY; outside of Rochester in Upstate.  It'd be a hell of a drive coming from Jersey.

The VERY BEST PLACE to pick up a kit(s) will be this weekend at the Knob Creek Machinegun Shoot!  In addition to the shoot is a MASSIVE gunshow where everybody who runs an ad in Shotgun News has tables. From waay up North the two boys and I made it in 12 hours and that includes at least two hours worth of stops for food-gas-pee-fireworks-.... so you guys out West could drive down in ~6 hours. Friday is the best day....bring ear plugs and lots of money, and kleenex!  
Guns, Ammo, Parts, Accessories, Magazines, and stuff most of us only dream about is there by the pallet load
www.machinegunshoot.com/

I would love to gl also but i practicly live in jersey myself.  Anyone downstate and in jersey want to organize our own build party?

Quoted: I would love to gl also but i practicly live in jersey myself.  Anyone downstate and in jersey want to organize our own build party?

I can't host, but would attend -- not sure if I want a build a 30 cal or a 22, but I need to get a Kalashnikov in the safe :-)

-WhyTanFox

I can bring a drill press, some hand tools, and I have a couple of pairs of bolt cutters that can be modified into rivet crushers if we can't get a rivet jig.

If gunwolf can't make it with his jigs then we will need a trigger guard jig as well since he brought that last time...

some things that will make it easier on us multiples are welcome and will make it a lot easier

press
4lb hammer
punches
grinder
gear puller
pennies and dimes
grinder
dremel
torch
vice
clamps
headspace gauges would be nice...especially if anyone has mismatched #s
any ak specific build tools of course

also be sure to bring a few mags for fit check


...anything else you guys can think of? I'm sure I missed a bit as I was just making a quick and dirty list

I'm going to rename the thread.

I have my AK-builder rivet jig, some clamps, and a Dremel tool with a ton of cutting wheels for cutting and grinding that I can bring.  I'll see about getting a trigger guard rivet tool and maybe the AK-builder barrel press tool too.

ETA: Lets also plan on group buying some AK-Builder rivet sets for our builds too.  They are the very best for the job, and as gunwolf said last time, they crush perfectly.

Quoted: I'm going to rename the thread. I have my AK-builder rivet jig, some clamps, and a Dremel tool with a ton of cutting wheels for cutting and grinding that I can bring.  I'll see about getting a trigger guard rivet tool and maybe the AK-builder barrel press tool too. ETA: Lets also plan on group buying some AK-Builder rivet sets for our builds too.  They are the very best for the job, and as gunwolf said last time, they crush perfectly.

I agree...I used the tapco rivets and they sucked compared to the AK Builder rivets that I used as a replacement on a couple of them...the AK-builder rivets crushed much better

ak74 goodness
youtube.com/watch?v=645TjlAsb-s

I will also bring my drill press along with my grinder, vice, and some punches.



So when are we looking at doing this? December ?

Quoted: I will also bring my drill press along with my grinder, vice, and some punches. So when are we looking at doing this? December ?

I would say tentatively lets plan for December/January.  Maybe February.  

If we're going to work from flats, lets bend and finish those earlier so on the build day we can demill and assemble.

Quoted: Quoted: I will also bring my drill press along with my grinder, vice, and some punches. So when are we looking at doing this? December ? I would say tentatively lets plan for December/January.  Maybe February.   If we're going to work from flats, lets bend and finish those earlier so on the build day we can demill and assemble.

January/February works great for me, gives me for time to come up w/ $ for the kits.

for all you guys that want to bend up your own. remember, last build we barly made it though. I took us all day just to get the guns together. so i would strongly suggest you have your flats bent up and ready to go before the build party.
also, without gunwolf chiming in yet on this tread he might not be there, that will complicate things ALOT because if i remember he pritty much installed everyones trigger groups and he also did all the barrel installs. if he's not there it's prolly going to add a crap load of time to the build.

I need a rough idea as to when you guys want to have the party. I need to set a reservation and check availability before hand.

we should look into having a group buy for the parts kits, and the rivits. I think last time we went though raysheen for the kits. but i dont know about this time. last year i was trying to clean up my kit the night before the build and I dont think anyone had there kits "de-milled". I'd like to have my kit and such well before hand so i can get most of that out of the way before the build to speed things up.

Quoted: for all you guys that want to bend up your own. remember, last build we barly made it though. I took us all day just to get the guns together. so i would strongly suggest you have your flats bent up and ready to go before the build party. also, without gunwolf chiming in yet on this tread he might not be there, that will complicate things ALOT because if i remember he pritty much installed everyones trigger groups and he also did all the barrel installs. if he's not there it's prolly going to add a crap load of time to the build. I need a rough idea as to when you guys want to have the party. I need to set a reservation and check availability before hand. we should look into having a group buy for the parts kits, and the rivits. I think last time we went though raysheen for the kits. but i dont know about this time. last year i was trying to clean up my kit the night before the build and I dont think anyone had there kits "de-milled". I'd like to have my kit and such well before hand so i can get most of that out of the way before the build to speed things up.

I had my kit demilled before the build but it still took me all day to get done, anyone who can demill prior to the build should do so. If no one else wants to I'll look into pricing for the kits if we were to buy as a group.

"Gunwolf" aparently ran into some hard times and AFAIK has moved on to another life somewhere else. A couple of us have tried to contact him without success.
Wherever he is and whatever he's doing I hope he's happy and doing alright.
The de-mil is really the bitch, with the hardest part being the seperation of the front trunnion to the barrel and receiver half, get that done and the rest isn't too bad.....well maby.

Quoted: "Gunwolf" aparently ran into some hard times and AFAIK has moved on to another life somewhere else. A couple of us have tried to contact him without success. Wherever he is and whatever he's doing I hope he's happy and doing alright. The de-mil is really the bitch, with the hardest part being the seperation of the front trunnion to the barrel and receiver half, get that done and the rest isn't too bad.....well maby.

pressing out the barrel will be much easier if that barrel jig is purchased...someone said they were thinking of getting one...I've seen them used and it makes pressing and installing MUCH easier than what we were doing. I agree with doing as much of the demil before hand as well.

well $hit, if were going to make this a yearly thing maybe we should all chip in and buy the tools we need to do the kits right! lol just have a trust worthy middle man hold onto it thoughout the year and rent it out to other people who need it so we can make out money back on it? well, that was just a thought, it'd prolly never work. but anyway, I'll start getting my ducks in line and look into collecting parts for the build. Im going to wait to see if theres a group buy on the kits and such.

now im getting all excited about it, Im like"screw waiting till feb, lets do that $hit next month!!!" lol

Brother, you know throw me on the list.  I will be there just dont know what to build I like the thought of a 74.  Maybe the GF will tag along.

I can bring my bending jig and dremel tool. Any thoughts on using allen head screws instead of rivets?

Anyone have a spot welder?

Quoted: I can bring my bending jig and dremel tool. Any thoughts on using allen head screws instead of rivets? Anyone have a spot welder?

I think we discussed a screw build last time and decided to go w/ the rivets. Using the rivets really isn't that hard and it looks a lot better.




I think we should definately look into doing a group order for the parts kits.

Quoted: I can bring my bending jig and dremel tool. Any thoughts on using allen head screws instead of rivets? Anyone have a spot welder?

I'm with screen-name on this if we bend our own receivers then building the kit in the same day will be a very very long day...I think it would be best to do it over two days if that's the case...I'm probably going to go with an NDS receiver, but I'd be happy to bend if someone else is thinking of doing that

I have Tim's card (gunwolf) in my truck somewhere. I didnt see him at pfinac's table at the rochester show so I didnt know what was up. If i can find it ill drop him an email and see if i can get in touch. I wonder whats going on with him?

In regards to recievers I think it would be a much wiser idea to buy pre-bent and ready to go recievers. That in itself will save us both time and aggravation.

I think a group buy for rivets/compliance parts is a great idea and I also though about we (as a group) purchasing the vital build tools (press and the couple of jigs needed).

I know gunthings.com has a majority of them and the rest of the stuff can be found at harbor freight. Given it a cursory look I think we would be looking at between $200-$300 bucks for all the stuff. Between 10 builders that would be an extra $20-$30. Negligable when taken in comparison to what it would  cost you to have a kit built for you and shipped all over tarnation back and forth.

If we were to decide that this would be the last ak build we could put all of the stuff on the boards for sale and recoup 75% of the cost fairly quickly to be redistributed.

I also had another idea. If we could agree on one or two colors maybe go ahead and order a few cans of alumahyde to finish the guns and add that to the cost. Ive used the stuff on a few of my ak's and it really is good stuff for $10 or $12 a can. It would require use of the oven and an extra hour or 2; time boughten by everyone showing up with a prebent reciever

I dont have much experience with durakote or duplicolor etc, but if someone else does and has the means and method to set up a "booth" at the build I would have no problem on chipping in for the cost of materials and aiding in setup/breakdown.

All food for thought....

Two pieces of info you might not know.
There's a harbor freight in Syracuse.
In my experience, Nodak recievers are fastest to build on.

I'll keep an eye on the thread but I don't think I'll be able to come.....

Quoted: Two pieces of info you might not know. There's a harbor freight in Syracuse. In my experience, Nodak recievers are fastest to build on. I'll keep an eye on the thread but I don't think I'll be able to come.....

Actually its in North Syracuse

Quoted: I'll keep an eye on the thread but I don't think I'll be able to come.....

I'll throw you up on the list, let us know if you can or can't attend as we get closer to whatever day we choose.  Even if you don't build anything, an extra set of hands is welcome.

I think what took a lot of time last build was the queue line to use the press and rivet jig.  Plus, everybody was at a different stage of the build so when some people were using the press for pushing barrels, some still needed to crush rivets.

I plan to build on finished receivers.  At this point, bending from flats would be too much trial and error without gunwolf (I really hope he's doing ok).  But the good thing is most of us have at least one build to go on.

ETA: I have the AK-Builder rivet jig and I'll probably pick up the AK-Builder trigger guard jig too for the build.

if a bunch of us are going to build from prebent receivers would it be possible to get a dealer to give us a discount on transfer fees?

Quoted: if a bunch of us are going to build from prebent receivers would it be possible to get a dealer to give us a discount on transfer fees?

If we all went through the same dealer it might be possible. If you are using Jackson's then it's already one of the cheapest transfers around anyway though so I don't know how much he could shave off of his price....I already have my receivers so I won't be able to get in on that deal.

Quoted: if a bunch of us are going to build from prebent receivers would it be possible to get a dealer to give us a discount on transfer fees?

Its tough because we are spread out all over the state. Im in Syracuse, your in Rochester, swatsnip3r is in buffalo, fp1201 is in a lean-too somewhere near Mt. Marcy. If we were all in the same general locale it would be feasible. The drive from where you are to another part of the state to do a transfer negates the whole cost-saving aspect of the discount.

The other thing i forgot to make mention of last night is that we might need to add a welding device to the list of needed things for permanently attaching muzzle devices. The solder past didnt turn out so well last time. TIG ? ARC? Im not too familiar with the different disciples of welding but if we could get a welding device there, that would be great.

I guess ill throw some dates out there say 12-1, 12-8, or 1-6 look good. I dont think we want to get any closer to christmas than 12-8 as most people have christmas parties and shopping to do, etc. Whatya guys think?

Quoted: I dont think we want to get any closer to christmas than 12-8 as most people have christmas parties and shopping to do, etc. Whatya guys think?

Doable.  

I was thinking of waiting a bit longer because some members need time to build funds and buy their stuff.

I think for now, let's consider only early December or early January.  We'll do January only if other members want the extra time to acquire their stuff.

yeah really..im looking at 3-4 recievers myself, and gettin hit at $37 a pop per transfer is getting raped.