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9/23/2020 3:47:02 PM
Posted: 4/29/2009 9:50:35 AM EDT
I know this has come up a few times and we come to the conclusion it's completely legal and you'll have no problems. I just wanted to give a little heads up from last night.

I went to the game last night and entered through the main entrance below the clock tower. I know they look through bags but i've never had anyone check me over for anything before last night. As i entered the lady had me unzip my hoodie to look inside, i had a tucked in shirt below it covering my G19, so naturally she didn't see it. So that seemed kind of strange because i had been to plenty of games before that and never had anyone do that, it seemed they were doing it in all lines. Well the really odd part was there was 2 people doing secondary searches with a metal detector wand. In fact the dude who entered right in front of me got hit with the wand. I had never seen this in any of the games i had been do there.

Basically just giving you all a heads up. I don't know if it was only at the main entrance or what, but that could have been a potentially embarrassing situation having to explain to them why it's going off on my right hip at 3 o'clock.

Anyone else seen this before? Was it maybe because it was cold and most people were wearing coats as opposed to light t-shirts most of the year (think easier concealment with coats)? I mean it was a Tuesday night game against 2 bad teams, there wasn't more than 10K people in the stands. I went the previous night but didn't enter till about the 4th inning and i wasn't carrying anyways because i was trashed.

I know most gun guys don't like sports, but i go to a lot of baseball games (this being my first of the season) and i figure someone might like the heads up. I dunno about you guys but i try to avoid all awkward situations if i can, like having a 60 years old usher have the wand keep beeping at my hip
Link Posted: 4/29/2009 10:20:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/29/2009 10:20:43 AM EDT by Ridge_Runner_5]
It is my understanding it is illegal to carry inside sports stadiums here...just an FYI, you broke the law



 
Link Posted: 4/29/2009 10:39:23 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/29/2009 10:41:14 AM EDT by ZombieKiller25]
Just checked the prohibited items list for Coors Field....and sure enough....Firearms is #11
Link Posted: 4/29/2009 10:59:23 AM EDT
All the banners at the park say no weapons allowed...so while it's not strictly 'illegal', it is private property.  I believe the back of the ticket says it as well.

I would treat it the same as a no firearms sign...
Link Posted: 4/29/2009 12:53:32 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Ridge_Runner_5:
It is my understanding it is illegal to carry inside sports stadiums here...just an FYI, you broke the law  


Stadiums aren't on the expressly prohibited list, but if they use electronic screening, that's officially a no go.

Link Posted: 4/29/2009 6:48:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/29/2009 6:49:07 PM EDT by newracer]
Originally Posted By the-fly:
Originally Posted By Ridge_Runner_5:
It is my understanding it is illegal to carry inside sports stadiums here...just an FYI, you broke the law  


Stadiums aren't on the expressly prohibited list, but if they use electronic screening, that's officially a no go.


Actually it only falls under the private property portion. The electronic screening must be permanent, at every entrance, and everyone must be screened.

18-12-214. Authority granted by permit - carrying restrictions.

 (1) (a) A permit to carry a concealed handgun authorizes the permittee to carry a concealed handgun in all areas of the state, except

 (2) A permit issued does not authorize a person to carry a concealed handgun into a place where the carrying of firearms is prohibited by federal law.

(3) A permit issued pursuant to this part 2 does not authorize a person to carry a concealed handgun onto the real property, or into any improvements erected thereon, of a public elementary, middle, junior high, or high school

 (4) A permit issued does not authorize a person to carry a concealed handgun into a public building at which:

   (a) Security personnel and electronic weapons screening devices are permanently in place at each entrance to the building;

   (b) Security personnel electronically screen each person who enters the building to determine whether the person is carrying a weapon of any kind; and

   (c) Security personnel require each person who is carrying a weapon of any kind to leave the weapon in possession of security personnel while the person is in the building.

 (5) Nothing in this shall be construed to limit existing rights of a private property owner, private tenant, private employer, or private business entity.

Link Posted: 4/29/2009 6:50:59 PM EDT
Wasn't Coors Field partially funded by the tax payers of Colorado?
Link Posted: 4/29/2009 7:01:00 PM EDT
Originally Posted By newracer:
[
Actually it only falls under the private property portion. The electronic screening must be permanent, at every entrance, and everyone must be screened.

18-12-214. Authority granted by permit - carrying restrictions.

 (1) (a) A permit to carry a concealed handgun authorizes the permittee to carry a concealed handgun in all areas of the state, except

 (2) A permit issued does not authorize a person to carry a concealed handgun into a place where the carrying of firearms is prohibited by federal law.

(3) A permit issued pursuant to this part 2 does not authorize a person to carry a concealed handgun onto the real property, or into any improvements erected thereon, of a public elementary, middle, junior high, or high school

 (4) A permit issued does not authorize a person to carry a concealed handgun into a public building at which:

   (a) Security personnel and electronic weapons screening devices are permanently in place at each entrance to the building;

   (b) Security personnel electronically screen each person who enters the building to determine whether the person is carrying a weapon of any kind; and

   (c) Security personnel require each person who is carrying a weapon of any kind to leave the weapon in possession of security personnel while the person is in the building.

 (5) Nothing in this shall be construed to limit existing rights of a private property owner, private tenant, private employer, or private business entity.




Ahhhh, good eyes there.  I do believe you are absolutely correct.
Link Posted: 4/29/2009 7:14:34 PM EDT
Originally Posted By BenCO:
I know most gun guys don't like sports,[/img]


????

I was there Saturday.  Had the unzip jacket thing happen, but no detectors in sight.

Link Posted: 4/30/2009 5:09:25 AM EDT
Originally Posted By newracer:
Originally Posted By the-fly:
Originally Posted By Ridge_Runner_5:
It is my understanding it is illegal to carry inside sports stadiums here...just an FYI, you broke the law  


Stadiums aren't on the expressly prohibited list, but if they use electronic screening, that's officially a no go.


Actually it only falls under the private property portion. The electronic screening must be permanent, at every entrance, and everyone must be screened.

18-12-214. Authority granted by permit - carrying restrictions.

 (1) (a) A permit to carry a concealed handgun authorizes the permittee to carry a concealed handgun in all areas of the state, except

 (2) A permit issued does not authorize a person to carry a concealed handgun into a place where the carrying of firearms is prohibited by federal law.

(3) A permit issued pursuant to this part 2 does not authorize a person to carry a concealed handgun onto the real property, or into any improvements erected thereon, of a public elementary, middle, junior high, or high school

 (4) A permit issued does not authorize a person to carry a concealed handgun into a public building at which:

   (a) Security personnel and electronic weapons screening devices are permanently in place at each entrance to the building;

   (b) Security personnel electronically screen each person who enters the building to determine whether the person is carrying a weapon of any kind; and

   (c) Security personnel require each person who is carrying a weapon of any kind to leave the weapon in possession of security personnel while the person is in the building.

 (5) Nothing in this shall be construed to limit existing rights of a private property owner, private tenant, private employer, or private business entity.



No, a "public building" is city hall, a court house, DMV, etc. Those are the places with the electronic screening exclusion. Private property like Coors field is covered in item #5. Coors does not need permanent screening to enforce their policy of no weapons. Their right as a private property owner allows them this.
Link Posted: 4/30/2009 8:43:45 AM EDT
Thanks for the heads up. I carry into Coors Field regularly.
Link Posted: 4/30/2009 9:53:40 AM EDT
Well i treat their signs like i do any other place, unless it is metered at every entrance i carry away. I never intentionally break the law and i don't think Tuesday night was any different.

Another heads up, i went again to the day game yesterday, same entrance and no detector wand or secondary screening like the previous night.

Not sure what to make of it, but for those of you who do go to games be aware of it, i know i certainly will.
Link Posted: 4/30/2009 12:03:09 PM EDT
Originally Posted By BenCO:
Well I treat their signs like I do any other place, unless it is metered at every entrance I carry away. I never intentionally break the law and I don't think Tuesday night was any different.


As I mentioned, "metering" is not required at every entrance for a private property owner to enforce their policy for CCW. I suppose your position hinges on whether or not Coors Field is a public or private building. For the purposes of interpretation under Colorado's CCW statute, I think Coors Field is considered private.
Link Posted: 4/30/2009 1:21:18 PM EDT
I was at the game on Monday night and left my companion locked up in the truck.  Saw the no firearms allowed thing once before there and even though there was no wanding really checking at the front, I figured I'd be having a beer.  Well sure enough after passing through the little turn thing.. older gentleman with a wand walks up and for whatever reason (dirty old man imo) chose the cute girl in the group to get wanded.  

I had never seen them wand anyone before, perhaps it is something new they are doing.  Random wandings and what not..

Link Posted: 4/30/2009 1:37:54 PM EDT
My understanding with Coors Field is that it is partially public property, and partially private property.  I think the consensus is, that if you need a ticket to get to that part of the property, you're on private property.  The portions without ticket requirements(Ie, outside), are public property.  

So yes, carrying in Coors Field would be against their rules, which as I understand it would mean you'd be trespassing if you were inside with a firearm.
Link Posted: 4/30/2009 1:56:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/30/2009 3:25:58 PM EDT by doc45]
This really isn't that hard to figure out.  If it's posted and you're discovered carrying you will be either:

a) told to leave
b) held for the boys in blue who may or may not be well versed in the correct statute
c) arrested and then have to deal with it from a legal perspective

From a legal perspective once you enter into Coors Field you are on private property and it's their rules.  Pays your money, takes your chances.  

Not meaning to be a jerk (that comes naturally ) just pointing out the reality.  You never know how it's going to play out.  I attended a Broncos game with a friend of mine that is a federal agent from an out of state office.  The guy wanding him (picked at random it seemed) thought it was my friend's belt buckle that set off the wand (and it may have instead of the Glock 23 on his waist).  My friend was about to badge him when the wand guy just waved him on through.  Go figure.
Link Posted: 4/30/2009 3:12:15 PM EDT



Originally Posted By chrisbarnett01:


My understanding with Coors Field is that it is partially public property, and partially private property.  I think the consensus is, that if you need a ticket to get to that part of the property, you're on private property.  The portions without ticket requirements(Ie, outside), are public property.  



So yes, carrying in Coors Field would be against their rules, which as I understand it would mean you'd be trespassing if you were inside with a firearm.


It is only trespassing if you refuse to leave when asked.



 
Link Posted: 4/30/2009 3:21:22 PM EDT
Originally Posted By thelastgunslinger:

Originally Posted By chrisbarnett01:
My understanding with Coors Field is that it is partially public property, and partially private property.  I think the consensus is, that if you need a ticket to get to that part of the property, you're on private property.  The portions without ticket requirements(Ie, outside), are public property.  

So yes, carrying in Coors Field would be against their rules, which as I understand it would mean you'd be trespassing if you were inside with a firearm.

It is only trespassing if you refuse to leave when asked.
 


That's my interpretation of it. Just like if i go into a McDonald's and there was a no firearms allowed sign i would walk right past it. If discovered and asked to leave i would do so.

Now if we were in say TX where they have those 30.06 signs that would be a completely different story. In Colorado the signs hold no weight is the way i read and interpret the law. I wouldn't treat the local store down the street any differently than Coors field and i'm not sure why others would either. Last time i went to the movie theater they had a no firearms sign, i carried there as well....

Bottom line is i carried in there, concealed is concealed.
Link Posted: 4/30/2009 3:41:54 PM EDT
Originally Posted By BenCO:
In Colorado the signs hold no weight is the way i read and interpret the law.


If a private property owner's sign carries no weight, then how would he give effect to his rights under the law?

Link Posted: 4/30/2009 3:51:03 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Lexington:
Originally Posted By BenCO:
In Colorado the signs hold no weight is the way i read and interpret the law.


If a private property owner's sign carries no weight, then how would he give effect to his rights under the law?



If you disarm anytime a store owner doesn't like you carrying that's fine with me. I take a concealed is concealed approach and don't pay attention to signs because they don't hold weight under the laws as i understand them. I don't see what the big fuss is here, if i need my firearm at a movie theater that had a posted no carry sign i won't give a fuck if i'm in a situation where i need it anyways. A sign put up by an anti gun owner is the least of my, or his worries.

I'm not walking around brandishing a gun in peoples shops here, but when a mall, a store, a movie theater has a sign posted i always walk right past it. If you walk back out to the car and disarm, that's your decision. If i'm in a situation where i'm asked to leave the property because of carrying i probably don't want to give them my business anyways.
Link Posted: 4/30/2009 5:43:12 PM EDT
Originally Posted By BenCO:
Originally Posted By Lexington:
Originally Posted By BenCO:
In Colorado the signs hold no weight is the way I read and interpret the law.


If a private property owner's sign carries no weight, then how would he give effect to his rights under the law?



If you disarm anytime a store owner doesn't like you carrying that's fine with me. I take a concealed is concealed approach and don't pay attention to signs because they don't hold weight under the laws as I understand them. I don't see what the big fuss is here, if I need my firearm at a movie theater that had a posted no carry sign I won't give a fuck if I'm in a situation where I need it anyways. A sign put up by an anti gun owner is the least of my, or his worries.

I'm not walking around brandishing a gun in peoples shops here, but when a mall, a store, a movie theater has a sign posted I always walk right past it. If you walk back out to the car and disarm, that's your decision. If I'm in a situation where I'm asked to leave the property because of carrying I probably don't want to give them my business anyways.


Actually, the answer to my question is that a private property owner cannot give effect to his rights under the law if his signs mean nothing. Signs (and statements on the back of event tickets) are the property owner's expression of his rules. Your assertion that the signs and notices have no weight is incorrect. "Concealed means concealed" is not a legal status that allows you to disregard a property owner's policy. Now, I ignore them at times too, but you have to understand that your argument has no basis other than your own desires. It's disingenuous to say that you'll disarm if asked but that you can't be asked if you can't be detected.
Link Posted: 4/30/2009 5:58:51 PM EDT
So let me get this straight, you're lecturing me on carrying against an owners wishes while you admit to doing so in the same sentence? I just want to make sure i'm understanding that correctly.

As i said before, i carry into movie theaters, malls and a few other places where i've seen signs. I consider myself to stay within the letter of the law on a daily basis and i certainly try to with carrying as well, but i don't disarm at those places. That's the bottom line. If i'm breaking the law, so be it i am not disarming just because i enter a mall or movie theater because it makes someone feel good. Unless they provide armed security i take my safety into my own hands. I'm not interested in arguing about this, i made this thread to give a heads up to other people who take their safety into their own hands at the Rockies games and i know more people than just me carry in there........this discussion has come up 5 or more times since i joined Arfcom as well as over at COAR.
Link Posted: 4/30/2009 6:29:15 PM EDT
Lecturing you? No. Putting a big hole in your reasoning? Absolutely.
Link Posted: 4/30/2009 6:38:41 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Lexington:
Lecturing you? No. Putting a big hole in your reasoning? Absolutely.


Well i would have to question your credibility when you openly admit to "ignoring" signs as well. I clearly state that i knowingly carry into places that post signs. If i could interpret laws i would probably be a lawyer

I know RMGO used to have a section on their site that listed places that posted signs, i'm not sure if they do that anymore. General census i've gathered both on here and other forums is concealed means concealed and i to live by that motto. If i need the weapon, the sign at the front door means jack shit at that point. Citizen disarmerment zones have worked wonders on school campuses and at the mall in Nebraska to name a few.

I wouldn't mind seeing some citations of case law in the state for this very thing, cause i've never heard of anyone being arrested for carrying where a sign is posted. I have however read, allbeit second hand about people being asked to leave a premises after being discovered carrying. Now if you can find case law that would put a big hole in my reasoning
Link Posted: 4/30/2009 6:46:53 PM EDT
Dude, you purported to know he law. The law is algorithmic. This was an IF-THEN-ELSE thought exercise. Your logic is faulty and you then framed the argument to justify what you want to do. End of story. Do what you wish, but be honest and don't pretend there is a magic escape clause.
Link Posted: 4/30/2009 7:18:02 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Lexington:
Dude, you purported to know he law. The law is algorithmic. This was an IF-THEN-ELSE thought exercise. Your logic is faulty and you then framed the argument to justify what you want to do. End of story. Do what you wish, but be honest and don't pretend there is a magic escape clause.


You misunderstood what i wrote then. I merely gave my interpretation of the law through my eyes based on what i've read and been taught. Like i said i knowingly carry into places that have signs posted, but i only do so based on what i interpret the law to be. I don't consult a lawyer everytime i make a decision on where to carry. You are the one stating law as fact here, i never did. Like i said, i would be curious to see a citation of case law here. I will do as i wish, that was never the question here. I was just tryin to help the flock out who i know carries at Coors like myself. We're pretty bad people
Link Posted: 4/30/2009 7:44:50 PM EDT
FYI list of no carry merchants

RMGO
Link Posted: 4/30/2009 8:31:51 PM EDT

This thread seems a good place to mention that a good attorney's contact info should be considered an essential part of one's carry equipment along w/a cell phone.  They are equally important as a spare load of ammo, or a firearm for that matter.

No, I'm not a practicing attorney eventhough I do have a J.D. degree and passed the bar exam a few years ago in another state before I moved to Colorado.  Nor do I give legal advice.  Be safe everyone.
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