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Posted: 11/6/2007 6:43:44 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/28/2008 3:25:26 PM EDT by Spartanatheart]
Title pretty much says it. I was at my desk doing some work on my idea for a TV show when the gate that covers the front entrance started moaning like someone was pulling on it. This was about 9:10 at night.

I thought it was nothing until someone knocked on the door. No mistake there. The lights in the store were on but the front door was locked & the gate was closed & locked so there was no way that someone could think we were still open.

I took my 870 with 6 rounds of 00 Buck & a 5-round box of 1oz slugs & looked at the front door*. Nobody was there. I moved to the register so I would be able to observe the door from an area with more cover.

Then the gate started moaning again. Then I saw a guy wearing a blue jacket with the hood pulled up over his head walk to the front door. I saw he had a hammer in his hands. I yelled in a deep authorative voice "HEY WHAT DO YOU WANT?!". He turned to the side area where I couldn't see & said "You said nobody was here." then he walked to the side & out of my field of vision. Then a few moments later he walked across to the other side where there is a crummy looking trailer park. Then a few moments later he walked across again.

I couldn't see his face without moving closer & sacrificing my cover so I can't ID him except to say he was about 5 & a half to 6' tall wearing a blue jacket & a reddish hammer in his pocket.  

By this time I have dialled 911 & talked to the nice operator. I let her know I had a gun so she could relay that to the officers responding so they wouldn't freak out. She said Ok & for me just to be sure that the gun wasn't in my hands when they showed up.

That was fine with me as I let it lay on the counter within reach but out of my hands. I'd say the police showed up about 10 minutes later & asked me my name, phone number & home address.

Here's what I though was really interesting. They asked me to describe the guy. I did & they said "We found him & sent him home. I didn't say it at the time but why in the hell did they do that?!

Attempted breaking & entering. Concealed carry of a deadly weapon without license, etc.

While I was talking to the 911 lady, my adrenaline was through the roof. I always thought that was a rumor spread by sheeple but now I realize the truth of the matter.

I didn't sleep well last night so maybe I could sue the guy for emotional distress or something.

This morning I looked at the gate as saw pry marks like he took the end of the hammer used for pulling out nails & tried to pry the gate away from the wall. It didn't work fortunately.

This morning I thought of taking the gun & holding him here until the police arrived but I'm not sure as to the wiseness of it so I'm sort of glad I didn't.

Bottom line: I'm safe & my stuff is safe. For now.  

Did I do right? Should I have held him there until the cops showed? Why did they just send him home? The officers seemed nice & I wasn't & still am not angry at them, but I just can't understand why they let him go.

*This may sound like alot but at the time I didn't know how many there were or what they were armed with.
Link Posted: 11/6/2007 7:27:55 AM EDT
I'd complete an attempted B/E report with the agency. Since they ID'ed him; you can use the info to secure a warrant against him if the agency doesnt do so. Be sure to take picutres of the damage done to your property and let the reporting officer know about it and see it.

The suspect was probably released due to a mix up in how the call was entered. I'd be willing to bet that it was listed as a suspicious person call instead of a B/E.

When it comes to holding the guy for the police. I think you did right in what you did. You dont want to challenge the guy any more than you did since you would be giving them more clues to your actual location. Also, you dont know how many more people are out there and what they have with them.

And a final note, put a sidesaddle on your shotgun so you arent fooling around with a box of ammo. Also get some training on the proper use of the shotgun.
Link Posted: 11/6/2007 7:28:51 AM EDT
IMO you did well; you didn't start a fight, and gave a verbal warning before going for the trigger.  It would have been ideal to keep them there after revealing their intentions, but I think overall you did OK.
Link Posted: 11/6/2007 7:38:16 AM EDT
You could have also not said a word and continued to let them think the store is unoccupied. That would give the police more time to get there and catch them in the act (occupied B/Es are "higher" level calls and arent held as long)
Link Posted: 11/6/2007 7:47:26 AM EDT

And a final note, put a sidesaddle on your shotgun so you arent fooling around with a box of ammo.



Well actually the spare shells were in my pants pocket so I had both hands on the shotgun. I'll look into the side saddle thing though.

As far as reporting the attempted B&E, do I just call my local police station? Who do I ask for?

What do I need to aquire a warrant for? I'm new to this so please don't flame me. I've never had any interaction with police aside from waving hello.
Link Posted: 11/6/2007 7:53:45 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Spartanatheart:
Well actually the spare shells were in my pants pocket so I had both hands on the shotgun. I'll look into the side saddle thing though.


Your pocket is slower to realod from than a sidesaddle. Having the spare ammo on the guns means you will always have approximately 4-6 spare rounds of ammo for the gun regardless if you are wearing clothing or not.





As far as reporting the attempted B&E, do I just call my local police station? Who do I ask for?
- Call the agency that patrols where your business is located. Just tell them you need to make a written report about someone trying to break into your business and that officers have already ID'ed the suspect.


What do I need to aquire a warrant for?


So the suspect can be arrested and brought to trial for trying to break into your business,.
Link Posted: 11/6/2007 7:58:52 AM EDT
I just talked to my neighbor store owner. He & some of his workers were also working late last night & saw the guy who they said was an older white male in his late 40's with the hood pulled over his head. They said he came out of the woods.

I talked to my father & he said that calling the police was opening a can of worms since the guy didn't actually break in.

Then he relented & said I should call a certain officer he knows & ask him what to do. I'll update you when the situation changes more.
Link Posted: 11/6/2007 8:00:54 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Spartanatheart:


I talked to my father & he said that calling the police was opening a can of worms since the guy didn't actually break in.

.


Not taking action against him just empowers him to make someone else a victim.
Link Posted: 11/6/2007 8:11:11 AM EDT

Originally Posted By NCPatrolAR:

Originally Posted By Spartanatheart:


I talked to my father & he said that calling the police was opening a can of worms since the guy didn't actually break in.

.


Not taking action against him just empowers him to make someone else a victim.



That's what I was thinking. I just called the sherrif's office & the lady said an officer would be out to take a report.
Link Posted: 11/6/2007 8:24:55 AM EDT
When the deputy gets out there, make sure you tell him everything that happened the previous night. It is especially important to mention that other business owners saw the suspect and that deputies were out with him shortly after you called.
Link Posted: 11/6/2007 8:28:43 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/6/2007 8:45:22 AM EDT by Spartanatheart]

Originally Posted By NCPatrolAR:
When the deputy gets out there, make sure you tell him everything that happened the previous night. It is especially important to mention that other business owners saw the suspect and that deputies were out with him shortly after you called.



Are you a deputy by chance? A lot of what you've said sounds LEO'ish. Just curious.

I'll sure refer him to the other witnesses. I count at least 3 people have seen him. He must not have much burglaring experience.


EDIT: The deputy's just came by. They were different than the one's that responded last night. I described the deputy's last night & they seemed to know which ones I was mentioning.

The ones today just got my license number & my name today & asked what was damaged. They were very nice folks. I did mention the other witnesses & they saaid they'd check it out.

What, if anything, do I do now?
Link Posted: 11/6/2007 8:58:46 AM EDT
He'll be back or friends of his will. You need to upgrade your security. Do you have cameras or alarms if not you need them.
Link Posted: 11/6/2007 9:10:35 AM EDT
We do in fact have a alarm system. It wasn't on as I was here. When I leave, I turn it on though.
Link Posted: 11/6/2007 9:12:06 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Spartanatheart:
I took my 870 with 6 rounds of 00 Buck & a 5-round box of 1oz slugs & looked at the front door*.


Hey!  I know that shotgun!  That's a fine weapon, and a hell of a deal you got on it too.  

You are being offered a lot of really good advice in this thread.  Listen closely.
Link Posted: 11/6/2007 9:15:00 AM EDT
Then you need to get a camera system that way if you do need to use the shotgun you will have it on camera showing why you needed to use it.
Link Posted: 11/6/2007 9:59:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/6/2007 10:01:00 AM EDT by Spartanatheart]

Originally Posted By taverndog:
Then you need to get a camera system that way if you do need to use the shotgun you will have it on camera showing why you needed to use it.



Think one of these would work?

www.cheaperthandirt.com/SCP617-57593-2848.html

We do have interior camera's for shoplifters but they wouldn't be able to see him while he's outside.
Link Posted: 11/6/2007 10:15:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Spartanatheart:
Are you a deputy by chance? A lot of what you've said sounds LEO'ish. Just curious.



Me a deputy?  Good lord no. I'm way too sexy to be chasing after criminals in tan polyester.  


I count at least 3 people have seen him. He must not have much burglaring experience.


He probably does have some expereince, but is at the point that he doesnt care if he gets caught or not.



What, if anything, do I do now?


Did they give you a report number? Give them a few days to get the report generated and have it land in someone's case assignment file before you call back. Just call them back and see if anything is being done on it.
Link Posted: 11/6/2007 10:23:32 AM EDT
Some steps you can do to harden your business are:

have good lighting completely around the business. You want the light to shine out and away from the business, but you also want the light to shine donw the walls. If you fall to do this, you create a halo of light that masks the actions of the suspect(s) near the building.

Have cameras that actually record while the business is closed. Place the cameras on the inside and outside of the business along possibly points of entry. Make sure the cameras are adjusted so that you can people and or vehicles that are coming and going into the business.

Have a monitored alarm with a decent notification time. It is your choice to have the alarm set to be audible or silent. I prefer businesses have silent alarms since it gives my crew time to get on scene and pounce on the guy while he is in the business.

If you have a cash register by a window, remove the till each night and leave the cash drawer open with the tray turned upside down. This shows the suspect that there is no money in the register and cuts down on the chances of a smash and grab occuring.

Look where the previous damage has occured and take steps to prevent future entry attempts at that point. This can be done by increasing the locks, adding bars, etc.

Look into getting a window laminate such as Shatterguard for your windows. The laminate prevents the window from falling out with a single blow if it is struck.

Those are a few things off the top of my head. Most of the cost money, but security isnt cheap.
Link Posted: 11/6/2007 10:23:40 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/6/2007 10:26:50 AM EDT by Spartanatheart]

Did they give you a report number?


Nope. I didn't ask for one either. I'm new to being burgled.

At least one good thing has come out of this. I told my slightly anti-gun mother that I don't want to hear any more whining about my owning guns. She just said that she thinks I'm too serious. Love her anyways.

EDIT: The register is about 30' away from the 1 window that is covered at night by the gate. The alarm is loud.
Link Posted: 11/6/2007 10:25:39 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Spartanatheart:

Did they give you a report number?


Nope. I didn't ask for one either. I'm new to being burgled.



Give it a couple days and call down there and ask about the status of your case. Be sure to ask for a report number at that time.
Link Posted: 11/6/2007 12:20:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/6/2007 12:22:11 PM EDT by Spartanatheart]
Do any of you think the guy might come back? If so, how soon?


Also get some training on the proper use of the shotgun.


Where? Any ideas?
Link Posted: 11/6/2007 1:09:06 PM EDT
Make sure you have a thorough and accurate understanding of judicious use of force laws for your respective state. The laws may surprise you. By no means am I saying do not defend yourself....i'm just sayin...

Be safe.
Link Posted: 11/6/2007 1:19:16 PM EDT
I understand them fairly well.

You can only use lethal force in defense of life, not property in NC.
Link Posted: 11/6/2007 1:47:59 PM EDT
Just out of curiosity, what kind of store do you have? Thanks.


Link Posted: 11/6/2007 1:48:28 PM EDT
what C-store do you work at? I work for APB. over a dozen stores in the greensboro/high point area have been robbed this past few weeks.
Link Posted: 11/6/2007 1:49:54 PM EDT
Kudos to NCPatrolAR for being very helpful!
Link Posted: 11/6/2007 1:55:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/6/2007 2:52:25 PM EDT by Spartanatheart]
Our store is in Rural Hall. We sell CB radio equipment, jewelry, tye-dye shirts, horse tack*, scooters, women's clothing, RC cars, makeup, vitamins, car stereos, TV's & leather products**.

*Which we are closing out on so most of it is %30 off.

**This is my specialty. If you want a belt, wallet, keyfob, checkbook, etc with your name or something on it, I can do it. It's real leather too. None of that plastic junk.


Kudos to NCPatrolAR for being very helpful!


+1. I appreciate it.


what C-store do you work at?


What's a C-store?
Link Posted: 11/6/2007 4:08:38 PM EDT
I think zombiefragger means convenience store.

NCPatrolAR is a very good man in my book. He has and still is very helpful to me in a variety of aspects--matter of fact, he was one of my first POC before we scouted out the area and moved here
Link Posted: 11/6/2007 4:45:11 PM EDT

I think zombiefragger means convenience store.



That's what I thought. Just wanted to clarify.
Link Posted: 11/6/2007 6:00:54 PM EDT
You need to get a Jennings or Lorcin 25 or 380 using alternate methods......file the numbers off and keep under the counter, then leave the door unlocked with a large LCD flat screen on

Nevermind......do what the others said.....
Link Posted: 11/6/2007 6:18:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By GIDDS-45:
You need to get a Jennings or Lorcin 25 or 380 using alternate methods......file the numbers off and keep under the counter, then leave the door unlocked with a large LCD flat screen on

Nevermind......do what the others said.....


Uh...... thanks but I don't think so.
Link Posted: 11/6/2007 10:39:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Spartanatheart:
Do any of you think the guy might come back? If so, how soon?


No telling really. IME, you typically see retrun visits about 1 week later.


Also get some training on the proper use of the shotgun.



Where? Any ideas?


I've heard these guys are pretty squared away.
Link Posted: 11/7/2007 5:17:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/7/2007 5:19:46 AM EDT by Spartanatheart]
NCPatrolAR, on the link you gave, they said on the shotgun course that I need to bring a handgun. While I can pass a background check, I won't be able to own a handgun for 2 more years due to NC laws. I'm 19 & 3/4 but the law says 21.

Is a handgun really needed?

At this page here, www.defensiveconceptsnc.com/freetraining.html , it says something about free training if I have a safe place to shoot? I have my backyard as I live up near Danbury. I even have my own range on it. I've got a real good hill for a backstop.
Link Posted: 11/7/2007 7:35:07 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Spartanatheart:
NCPatrolAR, on the link you gave, they said on the shotgun course that I need to bring a handgun. While I can pass a background check, I won't be able to own a handgun for 2 more years due to NC laws. I'm 19 & 3/4 but the law says 21.

Is a handgun really needed?


No. The handgun is stated for the purposes of doing transitions from the longgun to the handgun in the event of malfunctions, shotgun isnt suitable to the problem, etc. If need be; a handgun can be provided for you for the course.



At this page here, www.defensiveconceptsnc.com/freetraining.html , it says something about free training if I have a safe place to shoot? I have my backyard as I live up near Danbury. I even have my own range on it. I've got a real good hill for a backstop.


I sent you a PM concerning this.
Link Posted: 11/7/2007 7:54:29 AM EDT
My range isn't really a range like you need for a class. More of just shooting at 2 liter bottles tied to tree branches.

Where is the normal location for a shotgun class & when is the next one? I'm trying to calculate on Mapquest just how far it is away from here.
Link Posted: 11/7/2007 8:04:41 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Spartanatheart:
My range isn't really a range like you need for a class. More of just shooting at 2 liter bottles tied to tree branches.

Where is the normal location for a shotgun class & when is the next one? I'm trying to calculate on Mapquest just how far it is away from here.


We typically teach in the Albemarle/Locust region of the state (approximately 30 minutes east of Charlotte). We are talking with several people in the state about having classes elsewhere though. We are willing to teach where there is a desire to learn (and we wont get thrown in jail or sued for shooting )
Link Posted: 11/7/2007 8:16:40 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/7/2007 8:24:41 AM EDT by Spartanatheart]
There is a place in Rural Hall called Triad Gun Source that has a indoor range. Maybe you could talk to them about holding classes there. Here's the link their website.

www.triadgunsource.com

EDIT:

If need be; a handgun can be provided for you for the course.


What type of handgun? Is there a rental fee?
Link Posted: 11/7/2007 8:25:49 AM EDT
Damn kids.  

Just call 1911
Link Posted: 11/7/2007 8:27:17 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Spartanatheart:
There is a place in Rural Hall called Triad Gun Source that has a indoor range. Maybe you could talk to them about holding classes there. Here's the link their website.

www.triadgunsource.com



Indoor ranges suck for doing the work we teach.




What type of handgun? Is there a rental fee?


Glock 19 and yes.
Link Posted: 11/7/2007 8:36:14 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/7/2007 8:36:59 AM EDT by Spartanatheart]

Indoor ranges suck for doing the work we teach.



Why is that? Sorry if I'm asking too many questions.
Link Posted: 11/7/2007 8:45:47 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Spartanatheart:

Indoor ranges suck for doing the work we teach.



Why is that? Sorry if I'm asking too many questions.


You start catching splash off the walls, extremely loud, limited room to move, etc.
Link Posted: 11/7/2007 4:34:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By NCPatrolAR:

Originally Posted By Spartanatheart:


I talked to my father & he said that calling the police was opening a can of worms since the guy didn't actually break in.

.


Not taking action against him just empowers him to make someone else a victim.
yup.

The officers prob. let him go b/c of a breakdown in comm. from you to dispatchers to the officer.  The call could have come out as a "suspicious person"  They found him, he said he was "walking home" and they let him go.  Then they talk to you and find out the real story.  Happens quite frequently
Link Posted: 12/1/2007 1:57:34 PM EDT
Well the guys next door to us had one of the handles on their cargo-trailer broke. They think it's the same guy. We found out he lives within walking distance down the street.

Funny thing is, the guy that broke the handle didn't appear to have taken anything.

They aren't sure when he broke the handle but late last night I heard a dog nearby bark a whole lot. I though it nothing of it at the time.

Link Posted: 12/1/2007 2:23:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/1/2007 2:24:00 PM EDT by rusteerooster]

We typically teach in the Albemarle/Locust region of the state (approximately 30 minutes east of Charlotte). We are talking with several people in the state about having classes elsewhere though. We are willing to teach where there is a desire to learn (and we wont get thrown in jail or sued for shooting  )


I use to live up that way, where might you be?
Link Posted: 12/1/2007 4:14:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/3/2007 4:46:02 AM EDT by brackins23]
You can only use lethal force in defense of life, not property in NC.


And that is the major problem in this state and the criminals all know this little bit of info only to well.... I live in a upper middle class hood and alot of breakins started happening and guess what after several breakins and holding people hostage while they robbed their house, robbing kids on the  street and guess what the sheriffs department wouldnt and din't do about it other than investigate a little and send a extra patrol a day out.... Well then the caring residents started a little investigation of their own and and after finding their stuff in a couple pawn shops like 4 miles from the hood they were caught. Well then after a successful hood watch program and making it very known and obvious that most of the peps in the hood were military they stop breaking into homes..... Cop in the hood told me that if they break into my house and tell me they are not going to harm me they just want my stuff and I  hurt them and they can prove they said that to me then I will be prosecuted and convicted of assualt....
Link Posted: 12/1/2007 5:04:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/3/2007 5:18:48 AM EDT by u352]

Cop in the hood told me that if they break into my house and tell me they are not going to harm me they just want my stuff and I hurt them and they can prove they said that to me then I will be prosecuted and convicted of assualt....



I wonder if anyone has ever been prosecuted for that here. We need Castle Doctrine!!

And how are we to know that the thugs are telling the truth when they say they just want to steal from us & not kill us so there aren't any witnesses?

Edit to fix quote-u352
Link Posted: 12/2/2007 2:57:43 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/3/2007 4:47:26 AM EDT by brackins23]
I have been wondering that myself, not that I want someone to break into my home. I would be curious though if the thugs could pull it off though in court...But I do know that 1 year ago maybe 2 some guys broke into a home and an older lay was there and shot one of them with a gun and nothing happened to her. But I am with you how do you know they are not going to hurt you when they break in. So what do you do? But I just hate a law like this though, you protect yourself and you could now become the criminal. But with a Democrat as the Gov of the state I see it never changing and my taxes just going higher...
Link Posted: 12/2/2007 2:44:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/3/2007 5:20:19 AM EDT by u352]

Originally Posted By brackins23:
Cop in the hood told me that if they break into my house and tell me they are not going to harm me they just want my stuff and I hurt them and they can prove they said that to me then I will be prosecuted and convicted of assualt....  



Jimbo Kern "It's coming right for us!"


Well I would put my trust in the Jury on who to believe. Me who was defending my Family from bodily harm or the perp who just broke into my home that says that he told me that they are not going to harm me.




Edit to fix quote-u352
Link Posted: 12/3/2007 4:44:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/3/2007 4:47:57 AM EDT by brackins23]


Link Posted: 12/3/2007 2:18:32 PM EDT
if he broke into your house, how would you know that you arent in danger? he just broke into your house, obviously his moral compass isnt working properly. i wouldnt worry so much about "his side of the story"..cough, but more like establishing/determining if you are truly at risk of death or injury at the time.
Link Posted: 12/6/2007 6:30:30 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/6/2007 6:31:06 AM EDT by Spartanatheart]
ANOTHER UPDATE!!!!!!!!!!


Well they came back last night & stole the whole cargo trailer belonging to the folks next door. It was the same one that had the handle broke the other night.

I went to bed early around 7pm so I didn't hear anything. I can't say whether or not it was insured.
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