Problem with signs is you have to be able to read.

Tj

Quoted: Quoted: Would you be n favor of elimination of open carry here in AZ? Not at all. Its just that there is a place and time for everything, and sometimes discretion and social etiquet should be considered. Just because you have the right to do something, doesn't mean its a good idea to do it everywhere. Its like chewing with your mouth open... not illegal, but it grosses people out and makes folks think you are a weirdo. Its is a question of social graces. Unfortunately, gun owners who are too "in your face" hurt our cause more than help it. IMHO.

You act as if people that open carry run around yelling "YEEHAW LOOK AT ME I AM ARMED!!!"

If simply walking into a business with my sidearm in a holster on my hip, paying for goods or services and leaving is "in your face"  the same could be said of people that wear NRA, GOA, JPFO t-shirts, ball caps etc...in fact that is more in your face because it explicitly shows political intent.  An armed citizen going about their business is just that....a citizen going about their business.

MarkM's The homosexual example is the worst one to use as a counter argument.  They are more in your face than any minority group, and they are gaining more and more social acceptance and legal recognition.

Gun owners are being forced into the closet and homosexuals are coming out....by the time I am an old man I think I know which will be socially accepted without a second thought and which will be considered a perversion.  We will only have ourselves to blame for following  "social decorum"

Ok…I keep seeing this dead horse be beaten so let me grab a stick and join the fun…

I do not have the luxury of being a fair-weather friend of gun rights and the second amendment. I don’t just have my hobby at stake like some of you; I have attached my livelihood to the firearms industry and it’s community. If guns go away, I not only loose a God given right and a hobby I am very passionate about, but I loose my business and my financial future. I am coming to see that to a lot of you, guns are just like Golf Clubs and shooting is just like Golf…something you like, but you could easily live without.

Let me make this very clear, our guns are the only thing between “we the people” and oppression. It really is that cut and dried. The Second Amendment is the watchdog for all of our other rights. Every time we give ground on gun issues, it is ground we loose forever. This matter really is black and white…we give then a small crack in our line and they will drive a wedge into it. Bosnia was not the 3rd world; it was an industrialized country with a high literacy rate that at one time hosted the Olympics. In our lifetimes we have see that country fall into chaos and we have all see the mass graves! How could this happen? In our lifetimes we have see the images of woman and children butcher in Africa. We have seen the images of Torture and mass murder come out of the Middle East and from “Former Republics Of”… These are people just like you and me. They had the Internet and TV…How could this happen?

“When they come to ethnically cleanse me, will you speak out? Will you defend me?”

I will not go quietly into the night. I will not stand by and ring my hands as the trucks come to round up my friends and neighbors. Sam Adams is not a beer to me, he is a man who had enough and took arms. The Founding Fathers were men who took their freedom from a King by Rifle and Bayonet. They knew the price of that freedom because they paid it. They wrote this wonderful Document and in it they put a clause that not only protected their children from the oppression of a foreign nation, but from a their own Government if need be. Have any of you ever read the writings of these men? They where very outspoken about keeping oneself armed at all times. They would be appalled at what I see written by some of you “Patriots” and “Firearms Enthusiasts”. These are men that required every able-bodied male between 17 and 45 to drill with their arms after church.

You people quibble about if open carry is “Tactically Sound” and worry that if we let the sheeple see we are armed that they might take our guns away. “They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” Ben Franklin said that…that’s the old dude on the Hundred Dollar bill. “The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good.” and also this one: “ When firearms go, all goes. We need them every hour.” George Washington said that…he’s the guy with the funny hair on the One Dollar bill…  Look at all the money in your pocket you will see the faces of men who were “Rebels”, “Armed Fanatics” and out right “Trouble Makers”. To honor their memories, I choose to not give any of those little green pictures of them I carry in my wallet to any business that shits on their memory by denying me my rights. And yes Virginia, I understand that they have the right to refuse me anything they like on their private property and I am 100% ok with that, but as they are allowed to deny me their goods and services, I am also allowed to deny them my coinage to let all my “trouble making” friends know they are asshats and that they should spend their money someplace else. If the Founding Fathers were alive today, they would put their foot up some of your asses.

Quoted: Unfortunately, we have these things called lawmakers. They do just what their name implies, they make more laws. They love it when sheeple call them scared asking for more laws, it gives them something to do and helps them get re-elected. Our forefathers set up a system of checks and balances to make sure these lawmakers don't get carried away. Again unfortunately, the judicial side of these checks and balances hasn't been doing their share of keeping these lawmakers inline. They are out of control. Scare sheeple, get more laws.

I'd rather all guns were banned tomorrow than slowly over the course of my lifetime as carrying them and owning them becomes more and more socially unacceptable.  

The only way to prevent this is for gun ownership to be seen as common and normal.  If 1 out of every 10 people you saw walking down the street was open carrying rather than carrying concealed or leaving their gun in their car, it would not seem abnormal at all.

I think you are over estimating the number of people that it truly does scare compared to the people that don't notice, don't care, or are in favor of it.  Even the people it does scare, if they saw it often enough without incident would begin to see it as common and not care....the ones that would still be scared are the ones that are irrational gun haters and would vote against us anyway.

To me it's simple, the more the non-gun familiar public see guns the more familiar and comfortable they will feel around them.  The more we talk about them and familarize non-gun owning people, the further our cause will go.

I honestly believe that the vast majority of people on the topic of gun ownership are simply not educated about guns, sad but true.  I'll even go so far as to say most anti's, don't know what the hell they are talking about.  

I've lived in seven states and in some damn liberal ass ones and have yet to hide my guns in tool box or guitar cases.  I  have obeyed the laws and respected private property.  I have worked to change those laws.

Here in TN we are actively looking to change the CCW laws that prohibit carrying in public parks.  We have already won a number of small victories.

As I have said before, you guys in AZ are fighting a battle for all of us and if I was there my sidearm would be open every chance I got as it is here and other states I travel. I research alot of laws and even skirt a few with hunting licenses for I do believe that not only is it our right but duty to familarize the public and desesnatise the public.

The only thing I have stated in any of these threads is a good tactician picks his battles.

In the case of a public library in AZ, this is not a couthouse or other area of likely confrontation so like a public park should be a good battle to be fought, however as I have said before the key to victory is persistance.  Don't let a single set back stop the effort and just throw up your arms and say well I won't go there anymore but push and keep pushing.

I'm like the main character in Shawshank Redemption, the letters and emails will stop when I get my library.

Tj