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Posted: 2/11/2009 8:08:32 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/22/2010 9:19:31 AM EST by Paul]
Link Posted: 2/11/2009 8:54:54 PM EST
Great post Paul!
Link Posted: 2/11/2009 11:31:44 PM EST
You did a very good job of explaining the options you have for a California Legal Rifle. Thank you.
Link Posted: 2/11/2009 11:36:16 PM EST
Link Posted: 2/12/2009 5:09:39 AM EST
Dont forget the rimfire option. Build it with all the evil features but replace the bolt carrier group with a M261 .22LR conversion. It may be advisable to use a "multi" caliber marked lower. When you drive to nevada to shoot just remove the rimfire conversion and install a 5.56mm bolt carrier group.

For the really brave, or stupid. There is the just detach the upper from the lower option. a lower, regardless of configuration is not "semiautomatic" or "centerfire."
Link Posted: 1/25/2010 10:21:22 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/10/2010 1:08:45 PM EST
Great thread. This may need to be a sticky.
Link Posted: 9/10/2010 1:14:17 PM EST
raising the dead?

he's right Paul, how about a little updating and a sticky.

LOL
Link Posted: 9/10/2010 5:08:46 PM EST
We really need this type of thread/sticky on the AK/AKM pattern rifles too ...
Link Posted: 9/10/2010 7:49:02 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/11/2010 12:30:54 AM EST
Originally Posted By Paul:
Originally Posted By Calgunner:
We really need this type of thread/sticky on the AK/AKM pattern rifles too ...


Sorry I don't do commie weapons.


Everyone has at least one SKS in the woodpile
Link Posted: 9/11/2010 8:49:30 PM EST
Then there is the solar tactical CA legal variety. Just use a regular OLL lower and no other feature and you may retain and shoot with your 10, 20, 30 or Beta mags.

Link Posted: 9/11/2010 11:47:36 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/11/2010 11:48:34 PM EST by fortunesfool223]
Paul, you might clarify (unless I followed the chart incorrectly) that use of the Radlock or Bullet Button also allows use of a standard pistol grip - the photo of them with the Monster-man grip rifle gives the impression you still need the MM installed.

Edited to add - By the way, a photo tutorial for California law is a great idea!
Link Posted: 9/12/2010 9:29:40 AM EST

Originally Posted By Paul:
Originally Posted By Calgunner:
We really need this type of thread/sticky on the AK/AKM pattern rifles too ...


Sorry I don't do commie weapons.


Link Posted: 9/12/2010 10:31:57 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/12/2010 10:37:26 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/12/2010 10:37:46 AM EST by Paul]
Link Posted: 9/14/2010 12:52:59 AM EST
Great thread bud, wish it was made when I first started my builds lol
Link Posted: 9/15/2010 7:20:54 PM EST
"the tip of a bullet counts as a tool"

physically speaking you just need something to stick in there right?

Does someone make a glove/finger attachment that can push in there?


For example, I shoot an AR lefty and have been ejecting mags using my right thumb. If I strap some type of 'button' to my thumb I could just press that in there?
Link Posted: 9/15/2010 10:25:12 PM EST
Originally Posted By danpass:
"the tip of a bullet counts as a tool"

physically speaking you just need something to stick in there right?

Does someone make a glove/finger attachment that can push in there?


For example, I shoot an AR lefty and have been ejecting mags using my right thumb. If I strap some type of 'button' to my thumb I could just press that in there?



You could - I've seen some wag use a velcro fingertip wrap with something like a thumbtack protruding.

What you DON'T wanna do is attach something to the GUN - having the 'tool' hanging by a string, or
magnetically attached to the BulletButton mag catch makes it part of the gun and likely not a separate
tool for legal purposes. In fact, at CA gun shows there's this asshat selling "MagMagnets" aka
'felony buttons' that are little red magnetic things that go over the bullet Button so you don't have to
use a tool and can just use your fingertip. Grossly illegal in CA.

Bill Wiese
San Jose CA
Link Posted: 9/16/2010 1:46:50 PM EST
Originally Posted By Paul:
Originally Posted By fortunesfool223:
Paul, you might clarify (unless I followed the chart incorrectly) that use of the Radlock or Bullet Button also allows use of a standard pistol grip - the photo of them with the Monster-man grip rifle gives the impression you still need the MM installed.

Edited to add - By the way, a photo tutorial for California law is a great idea!


Yes this is true - NO NOT use a magazine locker with a non-pistol grip rifle.

It is legal to use a magazine lock with a pistol grip rifle.

It is legal to use a non-pistol grip rifle.

BUT using both, a fixed magazine on a non-pistol grip rifle has only one purpose and that's for killing innocent babies as they sleep ever so peacefully in their cribs ... and therefore they are illegal.

I bought five or eight different methods of CA compliance and ran them through my weapon and posted reviews on the ones worth the scratch. I have settled on the MonsterMan with my cache of detachable magazines. My magazine lock is un-locked and kept in the fully upright and stowed position, babies are safe.



While you have the self proclaimed "California gurus" involved here in this thread, I don't think this is correct. There's no reason I know of why you cant LEGALLY use a monster man grip AND a bullet button. As long as the magazine holds no more than TEN rounds. -W
Link Posted: 9/17/2010 10:54:21 AM EST
Originally Posted By wools10:
Originally Posted By Paul:
Originally Posted By fortunesfool223:
Paul, you might clarify (unless I followed the chart incorrectly) that use of the Radlock or Bullet Button also allows use of a standard pistol grip - the photo of them with the Monster-man grip rifle gives the impression you still need the MM installed.

Edited to add - By the way, a photo tutorial for California law is a great idea!


Yes this is true - NO NOT use a magazine locker with a non-pistol grip rifle.

It is legal to use a magazine lock with a pistol grip rifle.

It is legal to use a non-pistol grip rifle.

BUT using both, a fixed magazine on a non-pistol grip rifle has only one purpose and that's for killing innocent babies as they sleep ever so peacefully in their cribs ... and therefore they are illegal.

I bought five or eight different methods of CA compliance and ran them through my weapon and posted reviews on the ones worth the scratch. I have settled on the MonsterMan with my cache of detachable magazines. My magazine lock is un-locked and kept in the fully upright and stowed position, babies are safe.



While you have the self proclaimed "California gurus" involved here in this thread, I don't think this is correct. There's no reason I know of why you cant LEGALLY use a monster man grip AND a bullet button. As long as the magazine holds no more than TEN rounds. -W


EXACLY my thoughts..


i'm not 100% but doesnt the M1 garand have a fixed magazine? and its semi auto, and non-pistol grip?
Link Posted: 9/18/2010 10:11:09 PM EST
Originally Posted By bwiese:
Originally Posted By danpass:
"the tip of a bullet counts as a tool"

physically speaking you just need something to stick in there right?

Does someone make a glove/finger attachment that can push in there?


For example, I shoot an AR lefty and have been ejecting mags using my right thumb. If I strap some type of 'button' to my thumb I could just press that in there?



You could - I've seen some wag use a velcro fingertip wrap with something like a thumbtack protruding.

What you DON'T wanna do is attach something to the GUN - having the 'tool' hanging by a string, or
magnetically attached to the BulletButton mag catch makes it part of the gun and likely not a separate
tool for legal purposes. In fact, at CA gun shows there's this asshat selling "MagMagnets" aka
'felony buttons' that are little red magnetic things that go over the bullet Button so you don't have to
use a tool and can just use your fingertip. Grossly illegal in CA.

Bill Wiese
San Jose CA


I saw that asshat at one of the Ventura County gunshows and just shook my head at him.
Link Posted: 9/22/2010 12:57:50 AM EST
My cousin from OK is planning on making a move to CA for work. The list of named receivers goes like this:

DPMS: Panther (all)


His rifle says "DPMS A-15"

Is this an OLL that can be reconfigured to comply with SB23?
Link Posted: 9/22/2010 9:15:22 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/22/2010 10:43:19 AM EST by Paul]
Link Posted: 9/22/2010 3:28:00 PM EST

Originally Posted By Mall-Ninja:
My cousin from OK is planning on making a move to CA for work. The list of named receivers goes like this:

DPMS: Panther (all)


His rifle says "DPMS A-15"

Is this an OLL that can be reconfigured to comply with SB23?

Legally it is an OLL, but does he want a lot of hassles over a $60-100 part? It becomes a technical legal question that LEOs are most likely incapable of dealing with, and instead might default to seizure and arrest. There are now one or more Colt receivers which have been renamed and are now legal but I don't think it's worth it for now.

The same goes for PWA (all), it's officially not listed, but you can potentially see legal issues. Choose your battles.

Purchase him a new receiver as a welcome gift.
Link Posted: 9/26/2010 12:48:36 PM EST
OK cali guys, a few questions on all of this.

My brother's AR's have liven in my safe for more than a decade. It appears that he could enjoy them at his home in CA once again, if the lowers were replaced with a brand name that does not appear on any CA list.

I spent a bunch of time reading on CALGUNS, but there is just so much implied knowledge I get lost. I read the flow chart, and get the work around with the Monster grip. In fact, I like the idea, it is much like the FG42 grip angle.

Where I get lost is in the 12276 part of the flow chart. Specifically, the "Flash Hider" part. Does this mean no muzzle threads? Or is a threaded brake OK? I have brakes that are too large to slip a grenade on - will that do?

My brother can go buy an "OLL", and he can leave his stripped Colt lowers in my safe. Sounds great. I just want to get his uppers into the proper configuration for him.

Thanks

Lem
Link Posted: 9/29/2010 6:49:02 PM EST
Bump.

Anybody?

The other thread ("is it legal") turned into a magazine thread, with no mention of the muzzle device too - huh? Did I miss some glaring obvious page someplace?

Thanks.

Lem
Link Posted: 9/29/2010 7:09:59 PM EST
Originally Posted By Lem:
My brother's AR's have liven in my safe for more than a decade. It appears that he could enjoy them at his
home in CA once again, if the lowers were replaced with a brand name that does not appear on any CA list.

I spent a bunch of time reading on CALGUNS, but there is just so much implied knowledge I get lost. I read the
flow chart, and get the work around with the Monster grip. In fact, I like the idea, it is much like the FG42 grip angle.

Where I get lost is in the 12276 part of the flow chart. Specifically, the "Flash Hider" part. Does this mean no
muzzle threads? Or is a threaded brake OK? I have brakes that are too large to slip a grenade on - will that do?

My brother can go buy an "OLL", and he can leave his stripped Colt lowers in my safe. Sounds great. I just want to get his uppers into the proper configuration for him.


Lem,
Quick summary, and assuming the lower is off-list/not banned by name:

1. if the gun has a MonsterMan grip and detachable magazine, it can have no other 'evil features' (flash hider, telestock, thumbhole
stock, pistol grip, etc.). This configuration is commonly called a "featureless" build, and alternatives like the California Rifles U15
stock and the Exile Machine stock adatper also produce legal configurations if again no other evil features are attached.

2. Threaded barrels are NOT controlled on any rifles in CA. That was really only a concern on the now-expired 1994 Fed AW ban.
Replace flash hider with thread protector or muzzle brake - no perm attachment needed, unless it's to get the barrel up to 16" min
length. (NB: threaded bbls DO trigger AW status on semiauto pistols!!)

3. You can have all evil features (FH, pistol grip, telestock) on a semiauto centerfire rifle if the rifle has a nondetachable magazine;
the "BulletButton" mag lock device that makes the mag only removable with a tool (a bullet tip, screwdriver tip, pen tip, etc.)
legally renders the gun to not have a detachable magazine even though it's removable, due to definition wording in regulatory
code. Do NOT use a magazine over 10 rounds in this mag-locked configuration or you can trigger an alternate definition of AW.

4. Rimfire rifles are exempt from CA SB23 generic AW laws. (Rimfire pistols are not, however.)

5. All semiauto centerfire rifles in CA must have a minimum overall length of 30", not the usual 26". Due to an odd CA court
decision (People v. Rooney), the overall length is measured with any folding or telescoping stock CLOSED [even though
Federal overall length standards are more leniently measured with the stock opened.]

6. He can strip his uppers off and remove some stocks from his lowers and then build up his new off-list recievers into
rifle configurations per 1/2/3 above.



Regards,
Bill Wiese
San Jose CA


Link Posted: 9/29/2010 7:37:33 PM EST
Thanks Bill, the muzzle thread was where I was stuck.

The rest of it was pretty clear, he will be going with the Monsterman grip so he can use his mags.

Lem
Link Posted: 9/30/2010 7:57:04 PM EST
Thanks for the help around here Bill. Hard to try to clear up all the bad information sometimes. Nice to have you, Paul, and those that really know what's good to go.
Link Posted: 7/7/2011 11:00:13 PM EST
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