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Posted: 6/5/2010 3:30:25 AM EDT

I love the python & detective special! why are they no longer being made?
Link Posted: 6/5/2010 3:59:11 AM EDT
Had to do with getting out of the Brady Bill Law suits of the 90's.
Link Posted: 6/5/2010 4:14:09 AM EDT
I recall being in elementary school student and going on a field trip to the Colt factory in Hartford. My God can you imagine that happening today?
Link Posted: 6/5/2010 5:00:25 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/5/2010 5:00:47 AM EDT by reaper556]
Originally Posted By combat45acp:
Had to do with getting out of the Brady Bill Law suits of the 90's.


It had nothing to do with that.. The high cost of manufacturing them and the low sales volume prompted Colt to stop making them. in other words they were so overbuilt it was cost prohibitive for them to continue building them.
Link Posted: 6/5/2010 6:36:37 AM EDT
Originally Posted By reaper556:
Originally Posted By combat45acp:
Had to do with getting out of the Brady Bill Law suits of the 90's.


It had nothing to do with that.. The high cost of manufacturing them and the low sales volume prompted Colt to stop making them. in other words they were so overbuilt it was cost prohibitive for them to continue building them.


To say it had nothing to do with it is probably not accurate. Did Colt come out and say that? No. So for me to state the above is just my opinion, for that I apoligize.

But A federal judge dropped 11 of 21 gunmakers from a lawsuit brought against the industry by Camden County, saying the those 11 manufacturers cannot be held responsible for the crimes of gun users...one of which was Colt. Then they said hey no double actions, when at the same time S&W put built in locking mech. on their double actions, etc. Was it because of money or because of getting out of suit, or lack of money from suit? I'm not sure, but I remember when I heard they were stopping production on their double actions, and they got out of the suit and it was all in the same week if my memory serves me correct.
Link Posted: 6/5/2010 7:40:26 AM EDT
Btw I'm a Colt fan, not bashing. The Python is one of the finest revolvers made...just sayin
Link Posted: 6/5/2010 10:57:11 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/5/2010 11:05:45 AM EDT by dfariswheel]
The reason Colt stopped production of most double action revolvers was because they were in serious financial trouble and they simply couldn't keep making guns that just weren't selling that good. Their production tooling was aging and out of date. There were still some machines being used at Colt that had been used in the early 1900's.

Due to the big Colt strike of the mid-80's Colt lost most of their old highly skilled workers who could do the level of quality work needed. The workers left were all very highly paid people, and this too ran up the cost.
Colt was facing heavy competition from S&W, Ruger, Dan Wesson, and Taurus, and Colt revolvers, being a step above them in quality, cost more.
Colt had dropped all the older type of revolvers like the "D" framed Detective Special and Diamondback years before, with only a short run of Detective Specials in the mid-1990's. They replaced the "D" frame models with a new stainless steel small frame revolver, made in the SF-VI, DS-II, and Magnum Carry models in the mid-1990's.
At that time they were making these stainless small framed guns and the medium frame King Cobra. The medium frame Python was still in the line as a semi-custom premium model with prices that were the highest of any revolver made in America.

The DA revolvers were just not competitive. Things came to a head in the late 90's with the bankruptcy so in 2000 Colt dropped all DA revolvers and some other guns except the Python and Anaconda. Colt simply had to make the decision to drop all the revolvers, the .22 auto, and the small .380 and 9mm autos and make what was still selling well, the 1911 autos and the Single Action Army.
In 2003 Colt also dropped the Python and Anaconda.

Colt now has their financial house in order and is selling everything they can make. There are persistent rumors that Colt will sooner or later introduce a DA revolver again, but it won't likely be anything they made before.
Link Posted: 6/7/2010 3:38:12 AM EDT
There are plenty on the used gun market in NIB, LNIB, and lightly used condition for approximately the same price, or even less, than they had sold for when new. New Colt revolvers would be great, but I think that the DS tooling went to asia, but they still have the tooling for Pythons and Anacondas, but they obviously do not have the number of skilled-craftsmen to handle much time on those guns.

If Colt's reaches back into their bag of prior models, I would think that they would try to bring back the Government / Mustang / Pocketlite line of .380 pistols with CCW being so popular right now and the 1911-love being somewhat at a peak, but I'll bet that they have an arrangement with Sig to not compete with the P238.
Link Posted: 6/7/2010 7:55:05 AM EDT
Colt was always at a price disadvantage on their revolvers. Across the line, everything Colt had was more expensive than the competition, due to the handfitting required. As the revolver market died out, it made no economic sense to keep them in production.

The bit about the Brady Bill makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. If Colt was being pressured to drop anything it would have been civilian sales of the AR.
Link Posted: 6/7/2010 3:02:50 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Ameshawki:
Colt was always at a price disadvantage on their revolvers. Across the line, everything Colt had was more expensive than the competition, due to the handfitting required. As the revolver market died out, it made no economic sense to keep them in production.

The bit about the Brady Bill makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. If Colt was being pressured to drop anything it would have been civilian sales of the AR.


My thoughts exactly, S&W bid with the devil when it came to that not Colt
Link Posted: 6/7/2010 4:23:09 PM EDT
"I think that the DS tooling went to asia"

The DS tooling went NO WHERE. Colt never sells usable tooling, jigs, or dies for Colt guns. Colt doesn't want anyone making substandard copies of their guns.

The rumor that the Armscor revolvers are Colt copies, or made on Colt tooling is not true. The Armscor guns have an external resemblance to the Colt Detective Special or Diamondback. but internally they're totally different guns and of poor quality.
Link Posted: 6/7/2010 8:39:17 PM EDT
Originally Posted By dfariswheel:
"I think that the DS tooling went to asia"

The DS tooling went NO WHERE. Colt never sells usable tooling, jigs, or dies for Colt guns. Colt doesn't want anyone making substandard copies of their guns.

The rumor that the Armscor revolvers are Colt copies, or made on Colt tooling is not true. The Armscor guns have an external resemblance to the Colt Detective Special or Diamondback. but internally they're totally different guns and of poor quality.


Who sold Sig Sauer the tools for the P238? Or did they just sell the rights to the mustang?
Link Posted: 6/7/2010 8:41:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/7/2010 8:44:19 PM EDT by Dave_A]

Originally Posted By LegacyForce:

I love the python & detective special! why are they no longer being made?

Colt kind of gave up on the civvie market - they have some offerings, but really don't put effort/money into it...

This may be changing, but for a while they didn't give a shit about anything but mil/LEO products....
Link Posted: 6/8/2010 11:21:23 AM EDT
"Who sold Sig Sauer the tools for the P238? Or did they just sell the rights to the mustang?"

The Sig 238 is a close, but not exact "sort of" clone of the Colt Mustang. It's close enough that magazines will interchange, but that's because both Colt and Sig just bought magazines by Mec-Gar.
Colt's patents on the Mustang expired, so Sig just cloned it.
Link Posted: 6/8/2010 4:30:40 PM EDT
Originally Posted By reaper556:
Originally Posted By Ameshawki:
Colt was always at a price disadvantage on their revolvers. Across the line, everything Colt had was more expensive than the competition, due to the handfitting required. As the revolver market died out, it made no economic sense to keep them in production.

The bit about the Brady Bill makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. If Colt was being pressured to drop anything it would have been civilian sales of the AR.


My thoughts exactly, S&W bid with the devil when it came to that not Colt


In the late 80's or early 90's a "news" show (I believe 60 Minutes) did a hit piece on assualt rifles. One of the key guns they focused on was the AR-15, and right after the program aired Colt announced a voluntary halt on civilian sales of the AR-15. Colt eventually started selling to civillians again, but it did damage their sales and reputation. Had the internet been stronger at the time I believe Colt would have faced the same trouble S&W got into....
Link Posted: 6/21/2010 4:58:27 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Dave_A:

Originally Posted By LegacyForce:

I love the python & detective special! why are they no longer being made?

Colt kind of gave up on the civvie market - they have some offerings, but really don't put effort/money into it...

This may be changing, but for a while they didn't give a shit about anything but mil/LEO products....




no, they just couldnt afford it.

they dropped the DAs becasue they cost too much to make adn too much time, they even stated so in the next years catalogue after they discontinued them. I even still have it. They continued to make the python as a custom shop only option for a few years but still no one wanted them.

They still make the SSA and always have,. if they didnt care about the market they sure spent a lot of time hand building the SSA and even trying to make the colt cowboy, which everyone bitched for, then once it was out, bitched about it.

the 1911s have continued to upgrade slowly every year. slowing so they could fulfill Mil contracts. But saying they never cared about their civilian market is just asinine, if they didnt they would have dropped the colts MFG part long ago and just become colt defense only
Link Posted: 6/21/2010 5:45:06 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Shawnmt6601:
Originally Posted By Dave_A:

Originally Posted By LegacyForce:

I love the python & detective special! why are they no longer being made?

Colt kind of gave up on the civvie market - they have some offerings, but really don't put effort/money into it...

This may be changing, but for a while they didn't give a shit about anything but mil/LEO products....




no, they just couldnt afford it.

they dropped the DAs becasue they cost too much to make adn too much time, they even stated so in the next years catalogue after they discontinued them. I even still have it. They continued to make the python as a custom shop only option for a few years but still no one wanted them.

They still make the SSA and always have,. if they didnt care about the market they sure spent a lot of time hand building the SSA and even trying to make the colt cowboy, which everyone bitched for, then once it was out, bitched about it.

the 1911s have continued to upgrade slowly every year. slowing so they could fulfill Mil contracts. But saying they never cared about their civilian market is just asinine, if they didnt they would have dropped the colts MFG part long ago and just become colt defense only


Funny thing is, I have a Colt Cowboy 4 .75 and it is the tightest SAA I have ever shot. Every time I handle a "traditional" Colt SAA I laugh because the fitting and lockup of the Cowboy blows away the much more costly SAA.
Link Posted: 7/5/2010 7:23:48 PM EDT
The tooling was old, and these guns required a lot of hand finishing, as you can tell by looking at the finish on the Python or Diamondback, as compared to any other gun. They weren't bringing in the premium for the most part, at least in big sales numbers. Competitors especially would rather have an equally functional gun for much less money. Many people believe the Python action is much weaker than some others, especially the v-springs. And, that spring creates a stacking of pull weight, which many competitive shooters don't like, so Colts were always pretty much absent from competitive shooting sports, except maybe bullseye.

Now that more sophisticated machinery is available, it's possible that they could be made at competitive prices, but I'm strictly guessing. And, even if I'm right, I don't know if Colt would take the gamble of investing in such machinery, not knowing how well the guns would be received in the market.

I have to admit, if they brought out new Diamondbacks, I'd buy one, but I can't imagine it would have the allure of the ones I currently own.
Link Posted: 7/5/2010 7:32:35 PM EDT
I would not be shocked to see Colt offer a double action revolver again at some point. I think the revolver market is healthier now than it has been in years, thanks to the interest in guns like the Ruger LCR, and I hate to say it, the Taurus Judge.
Link Posted: 8/6/2010 8:44:15 PM EDT
Originally Posted By dfariswheel:
"Who sold Sig Sauer the tools for the P238? Or did they just sell the rights to the mustang?"

The Sig 238 is a close, but not exact "sort of" clone of the Colt Mustang. It's close enough that magazines will interchange, but that's because both Colt and Sig just bought magazines by Mec-Gar.
Colt's patents on the Mustang expired, so Sig just cloned it.


While the patents on the Mustang design probably expired already, SIG did not copy the Mustang design. The barrel/slide lockup is completely different.

Link Posted: 8/7/2010 12:04:24 AM EDT
Originally Posted By MarkFlier:
.
.
I have to admit, if they brought out new Diamondbacks, I'd buy one, but I can't imagine it would have the allure of the ones I currently own.
I bought a 6" Diamondback 22LR and a 38spl. Two of the most expensive revolvers at that time. My wife nearly had a cardiac when I brought home my 6" Diamondback 22LR I paid a rather princely sum of $300, back 30 years ago, probably equals to about $700 or $800 in today's money. Excellent shooting gun. The only close competitor was the S&W Model 17. BTW: the MSRP for a new 617 ~$1,100.
Link Posted: 8/8/2010 6:01:27 AM EDT
I'd rock a new Colt double action if they used a coil spring instead of the weird V leaf spring. Hope that's not blasphemy.
Link Posted: 8/8/2010 11:41:44 AM EDT
With one exception Colt stopped using the old "Vee" spring design in 1969, and went to all coil springs in the Mark III, Mark V, King Cobra, and Anaconda models,

The one exception was the short lived Colt small frame "SF" series that had a King Cobra type action, but used a "vee" spring to power the hammer. This series was the stainless steel Colt SF-VI, DS-II, and Magnum Carry.
Colt did use the "vee" spring in the Python, Diamondback, Detective Special, Cobra, etc after 1969, but this was simply the continuation of a few of the old designs. All the new designs had coil springs.
Link Posted: 8/15/2010 2:49:10 PM EDT
I believe if they did start making double actions again, it would not be the same quality. I love Colt DA....grew up on them as The Standard. A true shame that such an American icon as several of their models were, bit the dust due to price over quality.
Link Posted: 8/16/2010 5:33:47 PM EDT
Originally Posted By dfariswheel:
Colt did use the "vee" spring in the Python, Diamondback, Detective Special, Cobra, etc after 1969, but this was simply the continuation of a few of the old designs. All the new designs had coil springs.


Ohok. Mine was a Detective Special.
Link Posted: 8/24/2010 4:29:50 PM EDT
i would love to get my hands on one or twenty of them...
Link Posted: 9/3/2010 9:45:17 AM EDT
I would like to see them bring back most of the older DA revolvers, just like S&W is doing.
Link Posted: 9/5/2010 2:09:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/5/2010 2:10:56 PM EDT by Kymas23]
Originally Posted By 45FMJoe:
I would like to see them bring back most of the older DA revolvers, just like S&W is doing.


bring them all back into regular production! I can imagine with the rise in CCW availability throughout the US, Colt would consider the Detective Special and Mustang as viable moneymakers these days.
Link Posted: 9/9/2010 1:50:35 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/14/2010 10:11:22 AM EDT
Originally Posted By reaper556:
Originally Posted By Ameshawki:
Colt was always at a price disadvantage on their revolvers. Across the line, everything Colt had was more expensive than the competition, due to the handfitting required. As the revolver market died out, it made no economic sense to keep them in production.

The bit about the Brady Bill makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. If Colt was being pressured to drop anything it would have been civilian sales of the AR.


My thoughts exactly, S&W bid with the devil when it came to that not Colt
Other firearms companies where pissed at S/W for this. This happend in the 90's if I am not mistaken. It was all over the Gun magazines.

Link Posted: 10/29/2010 4:46:18 AM EDT
Any chance they'll be brought back?
Link Posted: 10/29/2010 11:50:55 AM EDT
There are always rumors around.
One says they'll introduce something in a year or so, but again, this is only a rumor.

You'll likely never see the Python or any of the old style small frame revolvers due to the extensive hand work needed to build them.
Link Posted: 10/30/2010 6:34:21 AM EDT
At least part of the issue is the labor costs, driven by the UAW.
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