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10/20/2017 1:01:18 AM
9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 8/29/2005 1:28:08 PM EDT
i just bought a glock 19 and am wandering which bullets i should use for defensive rounds i currently have 153gr winchester hollowpoints
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 1:33:02 PM EDT
147gr Speer Gold Dots OR Winchester Ranger-T in 147gr.
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 1:38:21 PM EDT
Magsafe pre-fragmented 60 grain defenders. 1800 FPS/431 Ft-Lbs. All energy is transmitted to the first soft object it hits. Limited ricochet and recoil
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 2:09:27 PM EDT
I would have thought we've gone over this stuff enough in past threads, but, once more


Originally Posted By CFII:
147gr Speer Gold Dots OR Winchester Ranger-T in 147gr.



YES


Originally Posted By wolfgang12:
Magsafe pre-fragmented 60 grain defenders. 1800 FPS/431 Ft-Lbs. All energy is transmitted to the first soft object it hits. Limited ricochet and recoil



NO!
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 2:24:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/29/2005 2:28:34 PM EDT by lu380]
115-125 grain projectiles are my preferred 9mm bullet weight. I like SXT and Golden Saber, and I stay away from Cor-Bon because of bullet set-back issues and nosediving problems that I've had with them before.

You might get different results, but this has been my experience with Cor-bon due to the short OAL (especially the 90-grain load), light crimp, and the truncated shape of the bullets they use in their loads.
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 2:33:33 PM EDT
Speer Gold Dot 124 grain HP.
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 2:37:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/29/2005 2:39:01 PM EDT by clubsoda22]
seriously, the 147's are the way to go. I used to be all about the +P+ 12X rounds. I realized that the 147's expand just as well, penetrate deeper and have less muzzle flip and blast. 147's used to get a bad rep for not expanding, but with the modern projectiles they are where it's at.
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 2:38:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By triburst1:
Speer Gold Dot 124 147 grain HP.



For me.
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 3:04:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By clubsoda22:
seriously, the 147's are the way to go. I used to be all about the +P+ 12X rounds. I realized that the 147's expand just as well, penetrate deeper and have less muzzle flip and blast. 147's used to get a bad rep for not expanding, but with the modern projectiles they are where it's at.



Some 9mm's will cycle sluggishly with heavier bullets. I've never had that problem, but have heard that it may be a problem in some guns.
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 3:10:10 PM EDT
Speer Gold Dots, Federal Hydrashok, Hornady TAP, and Winchester Rangers (not SXT, they have a problem with the jacket staying on). Rangers are very hard to come, even on the internet. Walmart usually carries Hydrashok in 9mm, so that would be the easiest to acquire, the rest should all be available at a local gun store.
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 3:37:39 PM EDT
Historically, the best rounds have been the Winchester Rangers. They are hard to come by but both the 147gr and the 127 gr +P+ have adequate penetration and reliable expansion according to what I have read. I agree with clubsoda22 that I find the 147 gr easier to shoot. I have heard a lot of good things about the new Barnes hex all copper bullet in handgun loads. I understand it is being loaded in the CorBon DPX and the Magtech First Defense in 9mm( both are +P loadings). I have ordered some of the Magtech loads and hope to try it out soon. The story on the hex bullet is that it expands reliably and penetrates adequately(~12 in) even at low velocities from 3" barreled guns. Obviously, with the longer barrel of the 19, this is not as much of an issue. If you go with 147 gr loads, make sure you chosse the newer designs since some of the older designs had serious expansion problems (also pointed out by clubsoda22). I find my BHP(Browning Hi-Power) shoots the 147gr loads slightly more accurately than the lower weight bullets and I don't have to go to +p which is not recommended for older Hi-Powers. With the Glock, +p is probably not a concern.
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 7:07:26 PM EDT
STX would be my choice!
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 8:20:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By triburst1:
Speer Gold Dot 124 grain HP.



+1

use to use hydra shoks

Link Posted: 8/29/2005 8:27:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/29/2005 8:28:27 PM EDT by ZW17]



Just kidding, if you use these I will come over and bitch slap you and if you shoot me with them you will just piss me off more.


+1 to the 147gr Speer Gold Dots
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 8:55:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Christian_Gun_Nut:
Historically, the best rounds have been the Winchester Rangers. They are hard to come by but both the 147gr and the 127 gr +P+ have adequate penetration and reliable expansion according to what I have read. I agree with clubsoda22 that I find the 147 gr easier to shoot. I have heard a lot of good things about the new Barnes hex all copper bullet in handgun loads. I understand it is being loaded in the CorBon DPX and the Magtech First Defense in 9mm( both are +P loadings). I have ordered some of the Magtech loads and hope to try it out soon. The story on the hex bullet is that it expands reliably and penetrates adequately(~12 in) even at low velocities from 3" barreled guns. Obviously, with the longer barrel of the 19, this is not as much of an issue. If you go with 147 gr loads, make sure you chosse the newer designs since some of the older designs had serious expansion problems (also pointed out by clubsoda22). I find my BHP(Browning Hi-Power) shoots the 147gr loads slightly more accurately than the lower weight bullets and I don't have to go to +p which is not recommended for older Hi-Powers. With the Glock, +p is probably not a concern.



The hex bullet is good. The 147gr rangers will expand reliably out of a short barrel.

buy your rangers from jerry kirkpatrick. I'm sure someone has his e-mail floating around.
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 11:54:37 PM EDT
I have been using 124gr fed hydra shock +p+. I was quite suprised how accurate they were out of my Glock 19. I would do some reading you might be suprised on what you decide on after you do some research for your self.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 8:14:23 AM EDT
I use Remington GS 124 gr. +p or the same configuration of Gold Dots. +p is the way to go.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 10:22:45 AM EDT

Originally Posted By CFII:
147gr Speer Gold Dots OR Winchester Ranger-T in 147gr.



+1 on the 147 Ranger. It is my understanding that SXT is the same, in case you can't get "law enforcement" rounds in your location. These are not +p, so there is less impact on your pistol.

If one has never seen and expanded round, it looks like a miniature food processor blade: imagine that twirling inside you.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 10:41:44 AM EDT

Originally Posted By rjroberts:

Originally Posted By CFII:
147gr Speer Gold Dots OR Winchester Ranger-T in 147gr.



+1 on the 147 Ranger. It is my understanding that SXT is the same, in case you can't get "law enforcement" rounds in your location. These are not +p, so there is less impact on your pistol.

If one has never seen and expanded round, it looks like a miniature food processor blade: imagine that twirling inside you.

The ranger is not quite the same. The SXT has problems keeping the jacket on when it hits an object, the Ranger doesn't have this problem and is probably the best pistol round made right now. But the availability of it makes it hard to come by
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 10:46:49 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ZW17:
img.photobucket.com/albums/v232/ZW17/top_2.jpg


Just kidding, if you use these I will come over and bitch slap you and if you shoot me with them you will just piss me off more.


+1 to the 147gr Speer Gold Dots




hahahaha they will just piss you off more thats great
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 10:48:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ZW17:
img.photobucket.com/albums/v232/ZW17/top_2.jpg


Just kidding, if you use these I will come over and bitch slap you and if you shoot me with them you will just piss me off more.


+1 to the 147gr Speer Gold Dots




beat me to it

+1 on the gold dots from me too
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 1:26:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 52brandon:

Originally Posted By rjroberts:

Originally Posted By CFII:
147gr Speer Gold Dots OR Winchester Ranger-T in 147gr.



+1 on the 147 Ranger. It is my understanding that SXT is the same, in case you can't get "law enforcement" rounds in your location. These are not +p, so there is less impact on your pistol.

If one has never seen and expanded round, it looks like a miniature food processor blade: imagine that twirling inside you.

The ranger is not quite the same. The SXT has problems keeping the jacket on when it hits an object, the Ranger doesn't have this problem and is probably the best pistol round made right now. But the availability of it makes it hard to come by



Thanks. I stand corrrected. I had always been told they were the same, and have no way to test it in a controlled manner. Fortunately, I have been able to buy Ranger @ $20. for a box of 50. Here in FL it's not a problem.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 5:55:12 PM EDT
Why the hype with 147 over 124 ? I figure any name-brand, good quality American-made JHP from 124 on up would do the job.
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 4:40:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Bob1984:
Why the hype with 147 over 124 ? I figure any name-brand, good quality American-made JHP from 124 on up would do the job.



True that. It's great that they're finally making 147's that work correctly but there's 124's (even Federal 9BP/9BPLE 115's) that have been doing the job for decades.
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 4:46:28 PM EDT
Ranger RA9T.
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 9:41:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Bob1984:
Why the hype with 147 over 124 ? I figure any name-brand, good quality American-made JHP from 124 on up would do the job.



Deeper penetration and similar expansion with less recoil. Better on barriers as well. 124 has worked fine for decades...147 just has the slight edge now.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 1:05:27 AM EDT
Despite the Winchester Ranger 147grns performance, I don't really subscribe the the 147 grn 9mm theory...it seams a little "1989" to me and I feel it has since been discounted. Personally, I like the 9mm for the mix of velocity and a decent bullet weight, if you pick the 147grn bullet you lose coveted velocity. If you like big, heavy slow bullets you should get a .45 ACP, nothing does big slow moving slugs better. Our testing has led me to believe that the Speer Gold Dot is the best defensive bullet in the game. Its bonded core allows for excellent penetration capability and the bullet expands consistantly well. I use the BH 124grn +P Gold Dot as its faster than the

Speer loading, which may reduce the potential of overpenetration by fragmenting at the higher velocity. The Winchester Ranger 127grn +P+ is also an excellent load which performs quite well, however it lacks the bonded bullet and vehicular penetration is less. I have also found the 124grn Golden Saber +P to be an excellent performing load. It expands consistantly and is an excellent defensive load. The only thing noticed with this round is its tendency to shed its jacket, which adds to the wound track but reduces penetration. The Bonded Sabre seems to have corrected this problem. The 124grn +P+ Hydrashok is another good load. The nose of the Hydrashok has a tendency to get plugged with wood or clothing which prevents it from expanding and it penetrates like a FMJ, which is quite dangerous. Otherwise, the Hydrashok performs quite will but I feel it has

been eclisped by the Expanding FMJ, none the less its still an excellent defensive round. I personally don't perfer Corbon. The Sierra bullets expand quite well and consistantly, but they are sensitive to the cycling of a weapon and they easily deform when being chambered which greatly reduces thier effectiveness. Also, some guns have difficulty feeding the short, blunt bullet. The over expansive bullet and high velocity cause the bullets to fragment and sometimes under penetrate, which can compromise lethality. The 115grn Corbon +P may be a load to consider if you live in close proximity to neighbors as it may be a "safer" alternitive. Otherwise, the 115 grn bullets should be avoided as thier isn't one that has passed the IWBA or FBI testing. Stick with 124 and up. My vote for the meanest 9mm is the 124grn Gold Dot.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 6:56:43 AM EDT
124 grain +P Gold Dots
147 grain Gold Dots (have a deeper hollow point cavity than the 124 grain to expand under lower velocity)


Whichever one of those two you can shoot better / your gun likes better and you got about as good as it gets in 9mm. IMO
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 9:26:11 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/1/2005 9:26:45 AM EDT by WesDesRat]
9mm
-Winchester Ranger 127 gr +P+ JHP
-Winchester Ranger 147 gr JHP
-Speer Gold Dot 124 gr +P JHP
-Remington Golden Saber 147 gr JHP
-Federal Tactical 124 gr JHP
-Federal Tactical 135 gr +P JHP



Any of these loads meet FBI and IWBA standards, and have proven track records. The most commonly available load is usually the 124gr +P GoldDot, usually found for under $20 a box of 50 rounds. The Winchester Ranger T and Federal Tactical loads are usually somewhat hard to come by, as they are usually only sold to LE departments and distributors. If you are paying more than $25 a box for 50 round boxes, you are paying too much.

Also, there are some loads that meet the standards that are not listed here, such as:

Winchester RangerT 124gr +P JHP (a new load in the last couple years)
Speer Gold Dot 147gr JHP
Remington Golden Saber 124gr and 124gr +P (there are also bonded versions of both 124gr loads, and the 147gr load listed above)
CorBon 115gr DPX JHP (all copper projectile, not their regular 115gr JHP load--also, I'm not 100% sure this one meets the barrier test requirements, but it does work well in bare and cloth covered gel)
Federal HST in both 124gr and 147gr weights (also a new load in the last two years)

There are others as well, but I'm going by memory.

For more information on the better self-defense loads for more claibers See this link in the Ammunition Forum

Personally, I carry either the 124gr +P Gold Dot, or either of the 127gr +P+ or 147gr Winchester Ranger T loads.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 9:30:02 AM EDT
Any high quality HP no trick ammo 115 gr (Sabers , Pre this or that)
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 10:06:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/1/2005 10:15:25 PM EDT by tommytrauma]

Originally Posted By wolfgang12:
Magsafe pre-fragmented 60 grain defenders. 1800 FPS/431 Ft-Lbs. All energy is transmitted to the first soft object it hits. Limited ricochet and recoil



Energy transmission as a mechanism for incapication has been thouroughly debunked. CNS damage and blood loss are the two effective mechanisms, with bleed out being directly related to the size of the permenant wound channel.

You have internet access. Do some research on terminal ballistics and stopping power. Here's a nice start; www.firearmstactical.com/pdf/fbi-hwfe.pdf

Brief, pertinent exerpt;

It is essential to bear in mind that the single most critical factor remains penetration. While
penetration up to 18 inches is preferable, a handgun bullet MUST reliably penetrate 12 inches of soft
body tissue at a minimum, regardless of whether it expands or not. If the bullet does not reliably penetrate
to these depths, it is not an effective bullet for law enforcement use.



Oh, by the way, Federal 124 g HST. Spectacular performance at a handgunning class demo. Sully made a believer out of me.

Photo credit - Quinlan
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