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10/20/2017 1:01:18 AM
9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 8/14/2005 1:42:37 PM EDT
what are the exact differences between the 2 pistols----other than the frame and the ed brown grip saftey. I am just curious--I believe somebody posted a while ago that other than general appearance the pistols are totally different. does kimber send pistols to the marines and swat teams--like LA---with MIM parts.


thanks
Link Posted: 8/14/2005 2:16:21 PM EDT
The Det. 1 pistols go to the Marines with real Novak sights.
Link Posted: 8/14/2005 2:21:14 PM EDT
The thing I don't understand with this gun is,,,,,,,You are paying almost $400 extra to have a gun with a rail added, and to go back to Series 1 with an internal extractor. Just goes to show you can come out with "official DeltaSEALDET.1SF toilet paper" and it would sell for a premium.
Link Posted: 8/14/2005 2:52:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/14/2005 3:08:46 PM EDT by E-95]
I'm running from memory here:

Common features:

Standard recoil spring
Internal extractor
Novak night sights
Lanyard loop
Match grade barrel and trigger
Series I safety system
Ambi thumb safety
Ed Brown grip safety

Differences:

Kimber coyote grips vs. Gunner grips
Integrated 1913 rail vs. Dawson rail
USMC markings on the ICQB
Kimber mags vs. Wilson Combat mags

By the way, I paid the price for a a tight weapon with outstanding performance and reliability. It has performed flawlessly with no failures and I have been very pleased with its accuracy. I could care less about its origins and marketing ties to MCSOCOM Det-1's sidearm.

E-95
Link Posted: 8/14/2005 10:43:46 PM EDT
Kimber Warrior

You can get the sand colored gunners grips here.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 1:18:49 AM EDT

Common features:

Standard recoil spring
Internal extractor
Novak night sights
Lanyard loop
Match grade barrel and trigger
Series I safety system
Ambi thumb safety
Ed Brown grip safety




Kimber is now offering it with their "Novakesque" sights, just like they copied the Gunner grips.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 1:52:49 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Rob96:
The thing I don't understand with this gun is,,,,,,,You are paying almost $400 extra to have a gun with a rail added, and to go back to Series 1 with an internal extractor. Just goes to show you can come out with "official DeltaSEALDET.1SF toilet paper" and it would sell for a premium.


No. It goes to show that there is a market for pistols without all of the nanny safeties.

I actually did a price breakdown awhile back adding up the price of all of the added features of the Warrior and you do come out ahead if you happen to like or want all of those particular features. It's also priced pretty well considering the direct competitors.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 5:38:31 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/15/2005 5:39:46 AM EDT by hobbs5624]
Yes, they (both DET-1 and the LAPD) get the MIM parts too. According to DET-1's armorer, who is a seriously good 1911 smith, the MIM parts on the 103 or so DET-1 ICQB pistols in their inventory have not been a problem any more than cast parts or barstock parts. As he puts it, small parts break on all pistols, eventually. He has not noticed any more propensity for MIM parts breakage, and they use their guns fairly hard. They also have a small quantity of stainless guns, and the MIM parts have not been a problem in those.

The Ed Brown grip safeties were put in after the fact, as they came with standard Kimber grip safeties. They were left with protruding grip tangs, as they had no capacity to refinish all the guns had they been blended.

So, as already mentioned by E-95:

-Gunner grips on the ICQB, copies on the Warrior
-Dawson rail on the ICQB, 1913 picatinny on the Warrior
-USMC markings on ICQB
-Wilson mags with ICQB, Kimber mags on Warrior

My early Warrior has Novaks on it. The difference is that the Novak marking on top by the set screw, as opposed to the side.

Rob96, I agree the pistol is overpriced, and maybe marketing has something to do with the freakish demand for these pistols. In Kimber's defense though, they cost more becuse it does have some features that would make it cost a little extra. For example, the barrels are fit tighter, it has the Kim-Pro finish, and it has actual Novaks on it. It also has a beavertail, steel mainspring housing with lanyard loop, and grips that are not standard to the rest of their line. These things are mostly what makes it cost more.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 7:22:29 AM EDT
I don't really think the pistol is overpriced. For $1000 you should expect a good frane and slide, anything else is gravy. That is today's mass produced 1911 market.

damian@adcofirearms.com
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 10:23:54 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Rob96:
The thing I don't understand with this gun is,,,,,,,You are paying almost $400 extra to have a gun with a rail added, and to go back to Series 1 with an internal extractor. Just goes to show you can come out with "official DeltaSEALDET.1SF toilet paper" and it would sell for a premium.



Some of us consider the series 1 safety setup and an internal extractor to be pluses, not minuses.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 1:44:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By THR-Thumper:

Originally Posted By Rob96:
The thing I don't understand with this gun is,,,,,,,You are paying almost $400 extra to have a gun with a rail added, and to go back to Series 1 with an internal extractor. Just goes to show you can come out with "official DeltaSEALDET.1SF toilet paper" and it would sell for a premium.



Some of us consider the series 1 safety setup and an internal extractor to be pluses, not minuses.


Exactly, I'd rather have the internal safety than the external any day of the week.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 2:47:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JaketheSnake:

Originally Posted By THR-Thumper:

Originally Posted By Rob96:
The thing I don't understand with this gun is,,,,,,,You are paying almost $400 extra to have a gun with a rail added, and to go back to Series 1 with an internal extractor. Just goes to show you can come out with "official DeltaSEALDET.1SF toilet paper" and it would sell for a premium.



Some of us consider the series 1 safety setup and an internal extractor to be pluses, not minuses.


Exactly, I'd rather have the internal safety than the external any day of the week.



What I am saying is, that you pay extra to have a Series 1 gun with internal extractor, something they use to offer, but changed.


and it has actual Novaks on it.

May want to check on that. If you look at the picture on their website, they are not Novaks, but made to look like Novaks. THe Warrior I looked at ,at Cabelas was definetly wearing Novak type sights. I just think it would have been a better offer if they would have stuck to the specs, instead of changing stuff for the civie version. For that matter, you are better off taking a Mil Spec and having it done up with the REAL parts.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 3:34:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/15/2005 3:35:45 PM EDT by E-95]

Originally Posted By Rob96:


and it has actual Novaks on it.

May want to check on that. If you look at the picture on their website, they are not Novaks, but made to look like Novaks. THe Warrior I looked at ,at Cabelas was definetly wearing Novak type sights. I just think it would have been a better offer if they would have stuck to the specs, instead of changing stuff for the civie version. For that matter, you are better off taking a Mil Spec and having it done up with the REAL parts.



I'm not sure what's on anything new coming from the factory, but mine is stamped "Novak's" on top with a patent number. It's not the same sight that is shown on Kimber's web site.

E-95
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 6:45:10 PM EDT
Rob96, here's a pic of mine:

Link Posted: 8/15/2005 7:32:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By hobbs5624:
Rob96, here's a pic of mine:

img311.imageshack.us/img311/5930/gunpics22867px.jpg


Mine has Novack stamped on it as well. I didn't get the Trijicon night sights but got the Mepro nightsights.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 10:17:43 PM EDT
There have been quite a few lengthy posts on 1911forums about these guns. Pat Rogers who helped write the spec said that the actual guns were modified at the unit with STI grip safeties instead of the Brown parts they originally planned to use because the STI part required less metal removal. Another poster familiar with the pistol revealed that the pistols shipped with real Novak rears and Kimber/Mepro fronts.

The word I heard on the Warrior was that the original run had real Novak rears but that Kimber quickly switched over to an in-house clone.

Also, besides the other difference mentioned in this thread, the ICQB is mil-spec parkerized.

Just running off memory since I seem to have an absurd penchant for little, anal retentive details--I'm just a keyboard commando who has never even seen one of the actual Marine pistols in person--I've just followed the threads with interest.

-Chad
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 1:18:10 AM EDT
The first ones were released with Novaks, but as stated above, Kimber has switched to an inhouse sight.Also have read in the SWAY magazine write up, the grip safety is inhouse as well. It is also stated the thumb safety is "King's like". Find a nive used Series 1 gun and make some changes with real parts, and you are good to go.
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 5:19:12 PM EDT
Last year, prior to the introduction of the Kimber Warrior, one of these DET-1 pistols appeared at Shooter's Paradise in Woodbridge, VA. Apparently Marines are able to purchase them directly? US MILITARY PROPERTY markings and DET-1 (or ONE, I do not recall) markings and a three-digit serial number. Did not, at the time, have the Simonich grips, I think this is around the same time Rob died.

We all fondled it a bit and wished it were ours.
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 5:24:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Rob96:
the thumb safety is "King's like".



It's actually quite an improvement IMHO. I bought both the Kimber and King's parts just to make up my own mind.

Kimber on left, King's on right





Link Posted: 8/17/2005 8:12:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/18/2005 2:54:39 AM EDT by Va_Dinger]

Originally Posted By E-95:
I'm running from memory here:

Common features:

Standard recoil spring
Internal extractor
Novak night sights
Lanyard loop
Match grade barrel and trigger
Series I safety system
Ambi thumb safety
Ed Brown grip safety

Differences:

Kimber coyote grips vs. Gunner grips
Integrated 1913 rail vs. Dawson rail
USMC markings on the ICQB
Kimber mags vs. Wilson Combat mags

By the way, I paid the price for a a tight weapon with outstanding performance and reliability. It has performed flawlessly with no failures and I have been very pleased with its accuracy. I could care less about its origins and marketing ties to MCSOCOM Det-1's sidearm.

E-95



I think you can also add the Warriors grip safety to the "Differences" list. The Warriors grip safety might have the "Hump", but it's no beavertail. It's just a regular Kimber grip safety with a hump added and thats a big difference in my book. Not to mention its not an authentic Ed Brown part on the Warrior.
Link Posted: 8/18/2005 1:34:26 AM EDT

I think you can also add the Warriors grip safety as a "Difference". The Warriors might have the "Hump", but it's no beavertail. Just a regular Kimber grip safety with a hump added and thats a big difference in my book.




Yes that is also another one of Kimbers " 'like" parts.
Link Posted: 9/22/2005 9:48:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Rob96:

I think you can also add the Warriors grip safety as a "Difference". The Warriors might have the "Hump", but it's no beavertail. Just a regular Kimber grip safety with a hump added and thats a big difference in my book.




Yes that is also another one of Kimbers " 'like" parts.



I was going to start a new topic, but this is probably just as good a place as any to ask. Does the Ed Brown grip safety give you a higher grip than the grip safety that Kimber uses on the Warrior? Or did they copy it close enough that it would be the same?
Link Posted: 9/23/2005 3:09:00 AM EDT
It is supposed to be a copy. How good of a copy, I don't know.
Link Posted: 9/23/2005 12:47:46 PM EDT
I wouldn't mind owning one, but I didn't know Kimber was knocking off other peoples products. Making knock offs of the Gunner Grips kind of pisses me off considering the circumstances of their creator. Oh well, that's all part of the business I guess.
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