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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 8/20/2005 4:17:14 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/20/2005 10:15:30 AM EDT by otw123]
I have been interested with the .45 GAP but I have not heard a whole lot about it. Any advice or first hand experience out there would be appreciated.
Link Posted: 8/20/2005 6:57:39 PM EDT
I don't think anything is wrong with the .45 gap but for a first handgun I would stick with 9mm. How about a glock 19?
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 1:34:40 AM EDT
we don't know if this is his first handgun.

Here's my opinion on .45 GAP. It allows you to fit 45 caliber rounds into a 9mm sized pistol. This comes with a sacrafice of capacity. Guns in .45 gap often have nearly half the capacity of their 9mm cousins. Some people will claim that because your shooting a 45 you need less rounds to get the job done.

This is bullshit.

The truth is that all common service calibers using quality hollow points perform essentially the same. A tenth of an inch of expansion and an inch or two of penetration. The difference between the terminal ballistics of a 9mm and 45 using quality loadings is not enough to make a poorly placed shot good or a well placed shot bad. A hit is a hit and a miss is a miss. The 9mm gives you twice as many chances score that critical hit while your adrenaline is pumping and your running and weaving and shooting in less than optimal conditions that are common in real life.

The other less noteworthy advantages that may or may not be a factor for you is lighter recoil, more common caliber, cheaper practice ammo, etc.

I'm a member of the glock mafia. I use and strongly recommend glock pistols.
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 4:51:48 AM EDT
Its not my first gun but I need a good carry gun, I love 45's. Thanks for the info.
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 4:59:06 AM EDT
perhaps consider capacity, bullet pentration(and over penetration) , ammo avalible in your area and mag. avalibility-price. Don't think there is anytrhing wrong with the .45 GAP.
Link Posted: 8/23/2005 7:52:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/23/2005 8:01:25 PM EDT by Tailgunner]
Since I am buying on the EE from you, I thought I'd give my 2 cents here.

I have carried for 6 years now, without incident, Thank God.

I started with a Beretta 92 Centurion in 9mm, then went to the same gun in .40 S&W. I've tried some others, too. After all is said and done I wound up most happy with a Kimber Stainless Pro Carry in .45 ACP.

My friends said it was too much recoil and hard to shoot but I got it anyway. It was the best move I ever made. I shoot it better than anything I ever had. I think the .40 S&W has much more recoil and my current commander length pistol is easier to conceal than any Beretta, Sig, or Glock I have ever shot. It is thinner due to the single stack mags.

My opinion is:

1.) You don't need more than 8 rounds in the gun and a spare 8 round mag in your pocket. If you do you should be running away.

2.) The GAP is a compromise that you don't need to make because a commander length (4.25" barreled) 1911 type pistol in .45 ACP is easy to conceal. The GAP is too short for it's diameter and I suspect it does not feed reliably, but I have no data to back that up. I think it's a fad that really stands for "Get Another Pistol". Just something new they hope you will buy to try. You decide!

3.) The .45 ACP is an easy to shoot, proven stopper. I find the 9mm a little too light for my taste and the .40 S&W harder to shoot and whippy, with a lot of barrel motion to recover from between shots. (I own a couple of each.)

4.) I have never once missed the Double Action guns. I carry cocked and locked with complete confidence and I can get an aimed shot off as fast as anybody with a DA can and I don't have to get used to two triggers. One DA the other SA.

Just Two more things; Buy the best gun that you can afford for carry and shoot it till you know it intimately. And buy at least two Wilson Combat 8 round mags with the plastic follower and carry with them. (The Kimber mags are OK too, but I carry with the Wilsons in both the gun & my pocket!)

Edited to say: I agree with SickMAK90, "I would stay away from the ultra carry (3'' barrel) 1911's." Stick with 4"+ guns.
Link Posted: 8/23/2005 7:53:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/23/2005 7:55:29 PM EDT by SickMAK90]
.45 gap is still pretty expensive. Thats why I stayed away right now. I was trying to decide between a glock 19, 23, or 37 (compact .45 gap). GAP ammo is still on the high side. I ended up with the 19 and I am very happy with it.

Great shooter, cheap ammo. Its a great combo.

What gun are you looking into with the .45 gap? The glock, XD, or the new springfield 1911?

If you want a semi-compact gun with good capacity and a shorter frame the glock or XD is a great choice. 1911 in .45 gap is kinda dumb.

I would stay away from the ultra carry (3'' barrel) 1911's. I had a kimber and it was unreliable. The pro carry with a 4'' barrel may be a good choice.

Can't go wrong with a glock...no matter what caliber it is.
Link Posted: 8/23/2005 8:25:07 PM EDT
Most compact 1911's have less than stellar reliability.


You don't need more than 8 rounds in the gun and a spare 8 round mag in your pocket. If you do you should be running away.


Of course you should be running away...because you're out of ammo. You can never have too much ammunition unless you're drowning or on fire. People who claim the 6-8 rounds in their guns is enough generally have big eye opening experiances when they do force on force with a qualified instructor. Movement & stress, these things cause misses, especially for the vast majority of people who don't practice shooting under stress and movement (not pracicing moving generally causes worse problems than missing, it generally results in you getting hit).
Link Posted: 8/23/2005 9:35:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/23/2005 9:46:30 PM EDT by DasRonin]
I have carried for 28+ years. All of this has not been without incident, but no blood has been shed, but it was damn close a few times! Thanks to good training.

I started with a Colt Combat Commander built by Jim Hoag. I have moved through to a Detonics Pocket .45 ( their first commercial compact .45), HK P9S in .45, Custom Browning HighPower 9mm, HK P7M8 9mm, HK P7M13, Glock M19 9mm, SIG P229 357 SIG, Glock 32 .357 SIG, and now more often a Glock M26 9mm... and duty carry a Glock 22, 40 S&W. All of them were very manageable, with the heavy calibers having slightly higher split times (times between shots). I have built a couple of 1911s, tried every caliber available except .45GAP. I plan to buy one in the next year.

I have yet to find any .45acp of a size that is really comfortable to CCW all day long. Typically size and weight is the issue. I loved my P7M13, but it was butt heavy and rusted very easily. With the quality of ammo today, 9mm does not have the issues it had 30 years ago when I selected .45acp, because there was no good 9mm defensive ammo. Good ammo design just about puts all auto calibers on the same playing field. (This is where the ammo thread guys actually want to jump into the middle of my chest. Until jello blocks start attacking people... I put little real value in to jello shoot results. AND I have professionally participated in jello shoots!)

My opinion is:

1. Just like real estate is location, location, location. Defensive ammunition is PLACEMENT, PLACEMENT, PLACEMENT! No "magic" bullet of any caliber can make a bad hit work. Bullet placement with any good quality defensive ammo IS THE KEY!

2. You cannot carry enough ammo when you go into harms way. In most cases when you CCW you are limited to what you are able to hide. Which is typically what is in the pistol and one spare magazine. So the best way to handle this... is to practice so you have good placement when you shoot, and carry a high capacity magazine. You may start our carrying a Beretta 92 in .40 cal with two spare magazines, or a full size 1911 with 2 magazines... but that will soon be realized to be a chunk to lug and a trick to hide. AND... if you do not hide the gun well, you are inviting the bad guy to take you out before you know he is there because he sees you have a gun... or expect to have a police office confront you to see if you are actually a holder of a CCW permit. You want to blend in and have NO ONE know you are armed except those you travel with.

3. The .45GAP IS NOT a compromise. You can get any size you want from Glock. From a 3.5 inch barrel to a 4.5 inch barrel. AND... it is not the barrel length that makes the pistol easy or hard to conceal... it is the butt length! .45 shooters have wanted a small reliable .45 since before I started carrying a .45. Glock made one with the same concept that brought us the .40 S&W. (The .40 S&W evolved from the big 10mm round. They took the downloaded original 10mm specs and put into a size that fit a 9mm frame size pistol. Glock just did the same for the .45 with the GAP round. Glock haters continue to jump on the hate all glocks bandwagon.)

4. Personally, I have no problem with the 9mm. I can put them where they need to go, and I have confidence in the modern defensive ammo in 9mm. I prefer the +p+... but also have confidence in the +p ammo. I still have a special place for .45... but the lower capacity and larger frame size are not worth the consideration... in my case. YMMV!

5. I do not like double action pistols. But if I had to carry one it would be a SIG. I do like the single action type triggers with the same press for each and every round... first to last. I run my Glocks with factory 3.5 connectors. (This is where people gasp! "In a defensive pistol?" Yes... in a defensive pistol. No one thinks twice with a tuned 1911 trigger!) I can get a fast first shot off... and I do not have to deal with the double action - single action transition or a thumb safety!

6. I have fired and witnessed 10s of thousands of round fired through Glocks... with the majority of them in .40 S&W. I have never witnessed a kaboom (don't want to kaboom... DON"T FIRE RELOADS!). I have seen two broken Glock pistol. A broken trigger pin, which went un-noticed until I detail stripped the gun for annual inspection, and a chipped extractor which still worked 95% of the time. I have had 1911s break and lock up to a paperweight... and had revolvers malfunction and not fire. Everything is gonna break... no matter what brand or design!

7. The Glock is the most reliable pistol I have seen. I used to dislike them too. But I bought one... and now by choice I won't carry anything but a Glock! I am a Glock Instructor and a Glock armorer. In my experience as a firearms instructor... 99.9% of the issues with a Glock or ANY "plastic" frame pistol... is shooter induced! Push out... lock out! Push the weapon towards the threat like you were trying to push through to the threat... and the majority of the shooter induced problems disappear! If you shoot with a high thumb... KEEP YOUR DAMN THUMB OFF THE SLIDE!

8. I have no problem with any quality pistol for defensive use. If you shoot it well, you can hide it well when CCW, and YOU are confident and competent with it... I will never trash some one's carry gun.

The Glock .45GAP has not had any published reliability issues. I do not believe a company like Glock would produce a pistol that was any less reliable than the original Glock 17. If you want a 1911... get a 1911. If you want a Glock .45 GAP... get one. Whatever you get, train with it... learn to shoot is as accurate and fast as you can... continue to maintain your skills. Get a good holster... and be the only one who knows you are CCW when you are CCW. A bad guy that get the drop on you because you "print" or let the gun be seen... WILL NOT be impressed or let you play catch-up.

There is nothing wrong with a Glock in any caliber if you use quality factory loaded ammunition. My retirement gift to myself just might be a midsize .45GAP. Not that I would not love to have a clone of the FBI 1911... it just ain't the size to fit my carry needs for CCW. A 165 pound person will not be able to carry the same size pistol as a 265 pound person! Find a gun that fits your needs... in all aspects... get quality in all aspects (no cheap holsters!)... and practice with it often.
Link Posted: 8/23/2005 10:42:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DasRonin:
Good ammo design just about puts all auto calibers on the same playing field.



Most of the jello guys agree with you on this point. The difference between 147gr 9mm and 230gr .45 in gelatin tests is less then a tenth of an inch of expansion. Penetration is the same.
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 1:42:27 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Tailgunner:

2.) The GAP is a compromise that you don't need to make because a commander length (4.25" barreled) 1911 type pistol in .45 ACP is easy to conceal. The GAP is too short for it's diameter and I suspect it does not feed reliably, but I have no data to back that up. I think it's a fad that really stands for "Get Another Pistol". Just something new they hope you will buy to try. You decide!




Your point is invalid, it has nothing to do with the length of the barrel or ability to conceal other than it allows one to use a thinner frame when it's in a staggered magazine, the GAP is entirely about grip size, fitting the .45ACP into a 9mm frame for those that need it. Your right, you have no data about feeding problems because there has been none, and absolutely none in the .45 GAP pistols I have shot. It's not a fad, it a solution for people who need the smaller grip, and those people aren't going away, they aren't a fad. I wish my small hand size were a fad, but it's here to stay. It's not something to try because it's new, it's something to try for those people that need it. You don't buy an small sized glove because it's new, you buy it because it fits your hand.
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 1:52:04 AM EDT

Originally Posted By clubsoda22:
Most compact 1911's have less than stellar reliability.


You don't need more than 8 rounds in the gun and a spare 8 round mag in your pocket. If you do you should be running away.


Of course you should be running away...because you're out of ammo. You can never have too much ammunition unless you're drowning or on fire. People who claim the 6-8 rounds in their guns is enough generally have big eye opening experiances when they do force on force with a qualified instructor. Movement & stress, these things cause misses, especially for the vast majority of people who don't practice shooting under stress and movement (not pracicing moving generally causes worse problems than missing, it generally results in you getting hit).



+1 I'm always hearing 1911 guys say "if I need more than 7 or 8 rounds I'm dead anyway" DUH cause your out of ammo. I carry 44 rounds of .40 on me and can conceal it as well as any 1911.

As far as the .45 gap goes. It does have slightly better performance than .45 acp. As much as I dislike glock I have to say, I don't think they'd develop a round, much less put out firearms in that caliber, if it was any less reliable than a 17 or 19 in 9mm.
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 5:08:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/24/2005 5:10:32 PM EDT by Tailgunner]

Originally Posted By otw123:
Its not my first gun but I need a good carry gun, I love 45's. Thanks for the info.



I'm glad to read other opinions and they all are very well thought out and informative but I need to clarify.

First, I never said anything against any Glock at all. Just that my 1911 was no harder to conceal than the Glocks and other guns that I have used.

Second, I think I said somewhere, "You decide!".

Third, This comment is retracted as stupid "If you do you should be running away.", since if you can safely run, you probably should.

Fourth, FYI: My 1911's are both 100% reliable to date! Maybe I have been lucky, but I doubt it. Also, I don't shoot 230 grain ammo.

Fifth, "It's not a fad, its a solution for people who need the smaller grip" Point taken, I do have large hands for an average sized guy. But I do like the thinner grips and feel they are easier to conceal, for me.

And finally, this is just my opinion and I fully concede that everyone should pick what is right for them. I was just explaining what was right for me, a Kimber in .45 ACP, and the guy did say he loved .45's, remember!
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 5:37:07 PM EDT
I'm going to have to agree with AK_Mike that the purpose of the 45GAP is to fit .45ACP into a smaller grip frame. The ballistics are essentially the same. If you believe that anything that doesn't start with .45 is too small and you have smaller hands, the .45 GAP is the answer to your prayers for high capacity guns. The most important thing is to pick the most powerful caliber / gun combination that you can shoot well. I'm thinking about picking up a .45 GAP myself one of these days. Right now I carry a 9mm because it is smaller and easier to carry than my Kimber Ultra Carry in .45 ACP. I have tried a glock in .45 GAP and it felt about the same as a .45 ACP in recoil but I prefered the smaller grip frame of the GAP. Just more comfortable for me. If grip size is not an issue, stick with the ACP because the ammo is more readily available and probably cheaper. Hope this helps.
Link Posted: 8/28/2005 2:00:27 PM EDT
Thanks for the input. I have always been crazy about the ACP anyway.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 8:16:34 PM EDT
GAP gets very similar balistics to ACP only out of very short guns. And the grip is basically the same size as 9mm/40/357 guns. If you can get five more 9mm rounds into the same size gun, and practice twice as much because ammo is half as expensive, which do you think will serve you better in the worst case situation?

Don't get me wrong, I love .45. But my CCW is a 9mm, and I have more 9mm's on my 'to buy' list than I do .45's. I like to shoot my guns, and cheap ammo to practice with makes a big difference. As does the potential for 18rd capacity versus 8rd capacity in guns of the same size.
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