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Posted: 6/19/2003 5:05:51 AM EDT
I have a G27 (.40cal)that I have had since they first came out and while I like the gun (don't carry it since I got my Kimber .45), I have been thinking of selling it and picking up something in a .357Sig to play around with.

Why? Because I don't have a .357Sig, that's why

Now, what are some opinions of the .357Sig round, both balistic wise and recoil wise?

The .40 has moderate recoil in any gun, and in a G27, it is controllable if you pay attention.

Thoughts?
Link Posted: 6/19/2003 8:04:22 AM EDT
Don't sell that Glock. Buy a KKM precision stainless match grade barrel in .357 sig. The mags will feed that round perfectly. Pound that .40 barrel flat with a big hammer and never look back.

Link Posted: 6/19/2003 8:06:09 AM EDT
Recoil is very similar to the .40. Muzzle blast really shakes up bystanders at the range. Ear plugs and ear muffs are highly recommended if you are shooting indoors or under a range hood.

.357 is a sweet round with excellent terminal balistics.
Link Posted: 6/19/2003 11:34:42 AM EDT
I've shot a P-239 in .357Sig & it was no problem at all. Recoil was "sharp" rather than stout, like a .44mag.

I too lust after a .357Sig but I can't buy a Glock 32 anymore, can't afford a Sig or H&K, won't own a Ruger.
Link Posted: 6/19/2003 11:47:23 AM EDT
Pick up a barrel for your G27. I did that with mine. Love shooting the 357 Sig out of the 27. Feeds great too. Only down side is the cost of the ammo.....

But I reload (haven't that round lately...to many other toys )

There are lots of places that sell a 357 Sig barrel. Glockmiester (spelling) has some, along with Lonewolf. Heck, even (GASP) Federal Arms markets a barrel.....


Link Posted: 6/19/2003 2:08:41 PM EDT
I am wondering what data is available that says the 357sig is more effective than the .40sw


“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions.”
— Grace Murray Hopper, Rear Admiral, U.S. Navy
Link Posted: 6/19/2003 4:36:31 PM EDT
http://le.atk.com/Interior.asp?section=1&page=pages/federal/fed_pistol_hydra.asp

Check out those ballistic tables.
Link Posted: 6/19/2003 7:45:13 PM EDT
dukeofurl...Thanks for the link. Interesting. 510 Muzzle energy for the Sig. 535 for the Mag? The .357's have more oomph than the 10mm? (425)

Hey I like the both versions of the .357, mag and sig, and will gladly say the are my favorites, but I didn't think they were more powerful than the 10mm. Though I think I remember reading somewhere that there were two types of 10mm power levels, original and toned down. Original power is more used for hunting now, and the toned down is the general level you will find now. Can't say I remember where I read this and this may be totally wrong anyway.

JH225...If you reload I personally would just get another barrel to convert to .357sig rather than sell your gun.

You can use the same 124gr lead for 9mm and .357sig (assuming its a high canulure(sp?) bullet and get bulk lead, and you reload for 9mm. Get a standard rifled conversion barrel so you can use cheap lead bullets for practice.

If you don't reload, see if your local shops carry .357 for about the same price as .40. Around me .357sig ammo is significantly higher. 35%-60%

As far as stopping power/muzzle energy and the likes. The .45 is heavy, slow and big, the .357 Sig/Mag is the other end of the spectrum, light, small and fast. The .40 is a happy balance, and can lean one way or the other to suit the shooters likes.

I doubt anyone can arguably say that any of these three choices would be a bad one. Go with what will give YOU confidence and practice, practice, pratice.

choir-boy
Link Posted: 6/19/2003 10:21:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/19/2003 10:22:07 PM EDT by Orlaam]

Originally Posted By BobCole:
I've shot a P-239 in .357Sig & it was no problem at all. Recoil was "sharp" rather than stout, like a .44mag.

I too lust after a .357Sig but I can't buy a Glock 32 anymore, can't afford a Sig or H&K, won't own a Ruger.



Yes you can!! I thought the same thing, but my luck changed and I bought a new P229 .357SIG

Don't think that way, you can get a Sig if you want. It took me 5 years of wanting one, but I finally got it.


Also, here's an interesting page dedicated to .357SIG
www.handguninfo.com/Archive/www.Pete-357.com/
Link Posted: 6/20/2003 5:28:50 AM EDT
I owned a .357 Sig and got rid of it. The cartridge is OK and has a good deal of promise (The VA state police have had 10 shootings with the round that I know about, and 9 of the 10 perps are at room temperature. The 10th is only alive because he was shot practically on the doorstep of the UVA Trauma Center...)

I didn't like the Glock 32 I had that fired the .357 Sig.

I think it is a good round and that it would make a heck of a good idea in a subgun.

Is it any better than the .40? I am not much of a fan of the .40 to tell the truth, but the .40 loaded with a 155 grain Hydra-Shok is a pretty effective loading. When I carried the H&K USP I carried that 155 grain .40 load.

"Better" is a relative term when it comes to caliber selection based on the mission you want it to perform and things like variations in the clothing/armor of the bad guy you are going to shoot. The 9mm and .45 ACP are the best all around calibers out there as they have a good history of doing anything you ask them to do. I stick to those calibers for the most part.

I must also relate a story about 2 VA State Troopers who stopped a truck driver. One trooper, a 20 year veteran, was carrying a Sig P220. The second, one fresh out of the academy, was carrying a Sig P229 in .357 Sig.

The truck driver pulled a gun and both troopers fired. The older troopers .45 ACP rounds did not penetrate through to hit the trucker. The younger trooper's rounds DID penetrate and killed the guy quickly.

The older trooper now carries a Sig P229 in .357 Sig. FWIW....
Link Posted: 6/20/2003 7:31:49 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/20/2003 7:35:30 AM EDT by Kaliburz]

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:
SNIP, SNIP


The truck driver pulled a gun and both troopers fired. The older troopers .45 ACP rounds did not penetrate through to hit the trucker. The younger trooper's rounds DID penetrate and killed the guy quickly.

The older trooper now carries a Sig P229 in .357 Sig. FWIW....



A small bit of history (from what I have read). The other round that has/had great penatration is the 38 Super. If you look at the Corbon loadings for the 38 Super and 357 Sig, they are near identical.

When originally loaded, way back in the late 1920's, the 38 Super was a very, very hot round. I recall shooting some ammo my father had, which he purchased back during the 60's and 70's. When compared to the new Winchester 130 grain, there IS NO COMPARISON. The new stuff is WEAK!!!!

The 357 Sig is a great round and bottle neck rounds have been around for a long time. Like the 7.62x25 has been around for a long time and 30 Mauser (I think). Both have great performance. A new generation of bottle necks are around too, like the 400 Corbon, 440 Corbon, 40 Super and a bunch of little stuff (380 case necked to 32?!!! and 32 case necked to 25??!!!...)


Edit-
As stated above, it really doesn't matter what you choose, as long as what you choose, you can shoot effectivly. What's the use of using a 45 if you can't handle it???? Hitting your target (no matter what you are using) is the number one issue...I would say.



Link Posted: 6/21/2003 2:26:01 AM EDT
I think that the 40 is good if you need a gun to use for self defence and don't want to permanently damage your hearing. The 357 Sig is probably just as good, if not better, at the "defence" part, but may blow out your eardrums if you shoot it indoors w/o hearing protection. Not that any unmuffled gunfire is good for your hearing, but you get the picture... That being said, the 357 Sig is a lot of fun at the range, due to the huge fireball and the BOOM! that goes along with it. Get both. I intend to...
Link Posted: 6/21/2003 7:15:52 AM EDT
Barrel change seems the way to go, cheaper, and you have not given up your .40

.357 Sig looks good. The ONLY thing I did not like about it was it is a bottle neck cartridge, from a reloading point of view.

Art in KY
Link Posted: 6/21/2003 8:25:19 PM EDT
The 357sig is no better than a 9mm+P+ loading. It is a good chambering, however it is not a wonder cartridge. The difference between the two in ballistic gelletin is minimal. They have relitivly the same wound prfile, permanet crush cavity, temperary crush cavity, and penetration. They shoot the same diamater bullet, except one goes a little faster. Like I said it is not a "bad" choice, but switching from a 40SW because you think it will give better preformance is not quite accurate.
Link Posted: 6/21/2003 9:56:38 PM EDT
I'm not a big fan of this round. It is fun to shoot, very accurate and quite powerful, but the muzzle blast and flash preclude it from being a good self defense option IMHO.
Link Posted: 6/22/2003 1:22:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CharlesArbuckle:
The 357sig is no better than a 9mm+P+ loading. It is a good chambering, however it is not a wonder cartridge. The difference between the two in ballistic gelletin is minimal. They have relitivly the same wound prfile, permanet crush cavity, temperary crush cavity, and penetration. They shoot the same diamater bullet, except one goes a little faster.



You left out that one allows you to have more ammo in the magazine the same one also has less muzzle flash.

You're correct, tho. I'll take a 9 +p+ over a .357S anyday.
Link Posted: 6/22/2003 6:19:54 PM EDT
The 9mm is my favorite pistol calibre, bar none... BUT, if the choice was between the two for defensive rounds, I'm going with the .357 sig. I've seen a Glock 32 in a rest shoot three inch groups at 100 yards. Try doing that with a Glock 19. We tried, real world conditions, didn;t come close. Bottle neck cartridges perform better in terms of accuracy.

Knock down power? Ask the Texas Rangers who have used their's. I had the chance to speak to one, he related how an officer shot somebody fifteen feet away and the perp was lifted off the ground and thrown back several feet from the point of impact. I also believe the Secret Service has chosen this as their round and they are responsible for protecting the most important man in the world. Did you ever see the special on the Discovery Channel about their firearms program and the research they do into selecting the right weapons and ammunition? I'm trusting their judgement on this one.

I have a Glock 32, and a 27, and its time to order a conversion barrel.
Link Posted: 6/22/2003 9:58:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CharlesArbuckle:
The 357sig is no better than a 9mm+P+ loading.
I would beg to differ, Sir.

It is a good chambering, however it is not a wonder cartridge. The difference between the two in ballistic gelletin is minimal.
Most folks don't shoot into gelletin, we shoot perps.

They shoot the same diamater bullet, except one goes a little faster.
It's ballastically identical to the .357magnum in the 125gr loading. Vitually no one would pick any 9mm loading over a .357mag, although I'm sure there's one or two oddballs.


Link Posted: 6/22/2003 11:27:16 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/23/2003 3:55:31 AM EDT
Well chew on this Troy... I've seen quite a few 9mm handguns that don't particularly like to feed 147 grain bullets. My Walther P99 HATES them. Not all 9mm handguns are rated to fire +P+ ammunition. You are now talking about expensive specialty rounds that some guns might choke on to try to mirror the performance of a round another gun is designed to feed on all day. Like I said, 9mm is my favorite calibre. More than half of my pistols are 9mm. I own one .45, one .40, one .357 Sig, one .22 and one .32. Everything else is 9mm. Clearly, I'm not going to dog the 9mm round. But for absolute reliable knock down power, I choose the .357 Sif over the 9mm, and the Secret Service does too.
Link Posted: 6/23/2003 6:07:40 PM EDT
Well, it looks like a barrel conversion might be the way to go for now. Remember, as I stated before, this will be used basicaly as a range toy.

I am thoroughly sold on the .45 as my carry piece when off duty. I handle it well, it obviously has the stopping power needed in a street situation, and I figure that if the person carrying a weapon is comfortable with that weapon, then that is what the person should be carrying, regardless of caliber. Remember, it is shot placement, not number of shots fired.

Any good sites besides Glockmeister for barrels?
Link Posted: 6/23/2003 6:34:01 PM EDT
If it is just for range play save your money and get a Federal Arms Corp barrel for around $90. I have 9mm and 40 conversion barrels for my Glock 32 and both work flawlessly. The great thing about the Glock is most mag wells are the same dimension and you can run 9mm out of the 40 and 357 guns with a conversion barrel. Not always 100% reliable, but for plinking at the range I place reliability around 99% for my G32 with a 9mm FAC barrel.
Link Posted: 6/23/2003 10:12:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/23/2003 10:18:41 PM EDT by AR15fan]
.357Sig has no advantage over the 9mm, only the disadvantages of decreased capacity, increased recoil, muzzle flash, and cost. Terminal effects of the best 9mm loads and the best .357 loads are the same.

A 9mm loaded with Win Ranger RA9T, Win Ranger 127Gn +P+, CCI Gold Dot 124Gn, CCI Gold Dot 124Gn +P, Black Hills 124Gn, or Black Hills 124Gn +P, will protect you just as well as any .357 Sig load.
Link Posted: 6/23/2003 10:43:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Troy:
but the 357Sig carries less rounds, has far fewer factory load options (though it has a couple of good ones), the ammo is much more expensive, less available, and the round is much harder to reload.
How can you get so much wrong into so little space? I bought from GA Precision yesterday at the gunshow, $9/50rds FMJ. Hardly "expensive" nor hard to find.

Here's a little secret: the 9mm 147gr Ranger Talon outperforms MOST 357Sig loads, AND MOST 125gr .357Mag loads, and it's a standard-pressure load.
And your **proof** of this little piece of info would be........????? Not to mention it flies in the face of all known studies such as Sanow, etc.


Anyway, if you're going to choose a loading based on the .40S&W case, and your goal is to increase performance over 9mm, then repeated testing shows that choosing 357Sig over .40S&W makes NO sense, ballistically.
Despite the lower c.u.p. pressure ratings?

-Troy

Link Posted: 6/23/2003 10:45:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JH225:
Any good sites besides Glockmeister for barrels?



Try Brownells, Bar-Sto & perhaps Midway.
Link Posted: 6/23/2003 10:49:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AR15fan:
.357Sig has no advantage over the 9mm, only the disadvantages of decreased capacity,
Huh? All NIB guns are sold with 10rd mags. Where's the 9mm advantage?

increased recoil, muzzle flash,
Clearly depends on one's perspective on recoil & the flash depends on the powder used.

and cost.
I paid $9 for 50rds of FMJ in .357Sig yesterday. Where's the problem?

Terminal effects of the best 9mm loads and the best .357 loads are the same.
Flies in the face of all known facts & studies.

Link Posted: 6/23/2003 10:50:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By choir-boy:
dukeofurl...Thanks for the link. Interesting. 510 Muzzle energy for the Sig. 535 for the Mag? The .357's have more oomph than the 10mm? (425)

Hey I like the both versions of the .357, mag and sig, and will gladly say the are my favorites, but I didn't think they were more powerful than the 10mm. Though I think I remember reading somewhere that there were two types of 10mm power levels, original and toned down. Original power is more used for hunting now, and the toned down is the general level you will find now. Can't say I remember where I read this and this may be totally wrong anyway.


Yes, Federal neutered their 10mm loads.

Not many companies still meet the original 640ft-lb spec...

Jonathan
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 5:50:27 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 11:54:34 AM EDT

Originally Posted By BobCole:
How can you get so much wrong into so little space? I bought from GA Precision yesterday at the gunshow, $9/50rds FMJ. Hardly "expensive" nor hard to find.



You can't find them that cheap around here. It's normally $12/50 at the same places I can get 9mm for $10/100 and .40 at $13/100.


And your **proof** of this little piece of info would be........????? Not to mention it flies in the face of all known studies such as Sanow, etc.


You're citing Sanow. yet you demand *proof*? Ha! Sanow and Marshall are KNOWN for fudging data when it suits them. Not to mention their "knockdown power" crap. I'm sorry, but NO handgun will knock a person down. Remember... every action has an equal and opposite reaction...meaning if it knocks down the target, the shooter will go down too.

If you want REAL data, look to Dr. Roberts over at Tactical Forums.


Despite the lower c.u.p. pressure ratings?


And higher pressure means one caliber is better than another? Hmm... a .45 is lower pressure than a 9mm. Which would you rather have?
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 3:48:26 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 10:53:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Troy:
BobCole,

1. I never said that .357Sig was NOT available, I just said "less available, fewer load choices, and generally more expensive". All of which are TRUE, despite the fact that you could demonstrate an exception.
One could say the same thing about women. But since GA Precision is a site sponsor, it would seem to be no-brainer to buy from them?


2. If you believe anything Marshall or Sanow write about terminal ballistics, then there's little point in my even discussing ballistics with you. They've been disgraced, having fabricated much of their data, drawing conclusions that their "data" doesn't back up, and have basically made a laughing stock of themselves.
I was not honestly aware of that.



If you disagree with that research, fine, but if all you have to back up your opinion is "data" from Marshall and/or Sanow, then I'm afraid your credibility in this area is going to be severely lacking.
I've never even read their stuff other than bits & pieces. But isn't it a given that the .357mag is the #1 rated caliber for one-shot stops & effectiveness?


Please don't take this as a personal attack. It isn't in any way personal;
Nah, you'll have to try a lot harder than that to offend me.


Spend some time at Tactical Forums or www.firearmstactical.com, and you'll get a heck of a lot of useful (and VALID) information that may change the way you think about weapons systems. Or not. <shrug>
-Troy
Hell, I barely have enough time to come here.


Link Posted: 6/25/2003 6:21:57 AM EDT

Originally Posted By BobCole:
I've never even read their stuff other than bits & pieces. But isn't it a given that the .357mag is the #1 rated caliber for one-shot stops & effectiveness?



Hopefully, DocGKR (Dr. Gary Roberts) will forgive me for cutting and pasting his words. It's just so much simpler than typing it all myself.


from Dr. Roberts about M&S:
Unfortunately, probably 50% of shooting victims CHOOSE to stop their actions and as Austin's comments correctly remind us, there is NO way to predict or assess psychological incapacitation. Each psychological incapacitation is a completely independent event; psychological incapacitation is an extremely erratic, highly variable, and completely unpredictable human response, independent of any inherent characteristics of the bullet. As a result, I am afraid Shawn Dodson is correct and the "M&S" data is statistically meaningless; the data, if it exists, is not useful in understanding the physiology associated with terminal performance and incapacitation mechanisms. In short, there is no science or relevance to "one shot stop" anecdotes reported by "M&S".




Another from Roberts about the .357 Sig:
The 357 Sig uses the same diameter bullet as the 9 mm propelled to a slightly higher velocity, they crush a similar amount of tissue; like most duty handguns, the stretch effects from both the 9 mm and 357 Sig are relatively insignificant, although there is marginally larger stretch with the 357 Sig. The 357 Sig has somewhat more reliable expansion through heavy clothing than the 9 mm, but at the expense of decreased magazine capacity, greater recoil, muzzle flash and blast, and increased wear and fatigue on the pistols. There does not appear to be significantly different terminal physical effects between the 9 mm and 357 Sig. I am unaware of any instances of a 357 Sig bullet not performing in a shooting incident exactly as expected based on repeatable lab testing.



You might check this thread: 64.177.53.248/ubb/Forum78/HTML/000199.html


Link Posted: 6/25/2003 8:39:20 AM EDT
i would not want to be shot by either cartridge myself. i would choose being "winged" by a .357sig over being "center-punched" by a .40 s&w any day.

we are not comparing apples and oranges here,we are comparing granny smiths and red delicious.

poor marksmanship with either round yeilds poor results.

Link Posted: 6/25/2003 6:21:43 PM EDT
BillD, the studies we have done all agree with what DocGKR(Dr. Roberts) and Dr Fackler proves. The ballistics between the two are minor. Choosing the 357sig thinking that you are getting some wonder catridge is asinine. Wich is what most people think about the 357mag and 357sig, or thinking that way about any other round for that matter. No round will "pick him up off the ground and make him fly back several feet".
Link Posted: 6/25/2003 10:52:22 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/26/2003 1:06:33 AM EDT
I agree with Troy 110%, as usual. Please folks, if you need reliable advice about what defensive ammo to choose, get it from a solid source.

www.tacticalforums.com

www.firearmstactical.com

www.ammolab.com

I would feel comfortable with any of the above sources, but especially at tactical forums. The M&S stuff is ridiculous and there is some good reading over at firearms tactical that show just how ridiculous it is.

-Charging Handle
Link Posted: 6/27/2003 6:56:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Troy:
.357Sig gets you the negative attributes of both calibers wihtout any real advantage, other than possibly improved feeding (but with an increased danger of kB! due to bullet setback).

-Troy



I would strongly disagree. With its 125gr loading in 1300-1400/fps that I use from GA precision, I see a great deal of advantage over the 9mm.

I see no danger of any KB as the case is fully supported, unlike the .40S&W. Also there's no doubt the 125gr will zip thru windshields & doors much better than 9mm at slower speeds.

This caliber will only get more popular as time goes on, IMO. While I certainly won't claim it'll get more popular than the 9mm, it will give it a run for its money.
Link Posted: 6/27/2003 7:10:18 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/28/2003 4:56:01 AM EDT
I may be beating a dead horse, because I am by no stretch a ballistics expert... but there has to be a pretty good reason why the world's preeminent personal protection unit (the United States Secret Service) has chosen this round over every other. I'm guessing with all of the ballistic experts they have, they have come to the conclusion that there are advantages to this round over all the others.

Would one of the experts on the board care to address that issue?
Link Posted: 6/28/2003 9:15:55 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/28/2003 9:53:52 AM EDT
Sorry Troy, but I'm going to have to call bullshit on that theory. Note, I'm not calling bullshit on your ballistic knowledge. I have had the priviledge of knowing several federal agents, including the former head of the Syracuse office who had also spent time working presidential details earlier in his career. While agree a rivalry does exist, these guys are simply too professional to allow politics to interfere with something as important as the tools of the trade. And yes, while it is the shooter who makes the difference, I doubt they are going to field their agents with inferior weapons and ammunition to thumb their nose at a rival agency, not when the Presiden't life is on the line.

If the issue was wanting a different weapon than the FBI, they could have gone with any calibre Sig Sauer. If it was wanting a different calibre, they could have gone with any weapon chambered in 9mm. If it was wanting a different weapon and caliber they could have once again gone with Sig Sauer, Heckler and Kock, Beretta, etc.

No, I have to believe there was a good reason they chose Sig Sauer and the .357 Sig round and it wasn't because they couldn't play nice in the sandbox.
Link Posted: 6/28/2003 2:58:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By HiramRanger:
Sorry Troy, but I'm going to have to call bullshit on that theory. Note, I'm not calling bullshit on your ballistic knowledge. I have had the priviledge of knowing several federal agents, including the former head of the Syracuse office who had also spent time working presidential details earlier in his career. While agree a rivalry does exist, these guys are simply too professional to allow politics to interfere with something as important as the tools of the trade. And yes, while it is the shooter who makes the difference, I doubt they are going to field their agents with inferior weapons and ammunition to thumb their nose at a rival agency, not when the Presiden't life is on the line.

If the issue was wanting a different weapon than the FBI, they could have gone with any calibre Sig Sauer. If it was wanting a different calibre, they could have gone with any weapon chambered in 9mm. If it was wanting a different weapon and caliber they could have once again gone with Sig Sauer, Heckler and Kock, Beretta, etc.

No, I have to believe there was a good reason they chose Sig Sauer and the .357 Sig round and it wasn't because they couldn't play nice in the sandbox.




The facts are right in front of you. If you do not wish to see them thats fine. But please don't argue with facts. A target does not care about what a bullet looks like or how fast it goes or which brand firearm fires it. If two bullets preform the same(like I said and explained before) they will have the same effect. It does not matter if the 357sig is going 1000fps faster, if the wound are the same your not gaing any thing except more muzzle blast, muzzle rise, and wasting more powder.


THE 357SIG DOES NOT OFFER ANY SIGNIFICANT ADVANTAGE TO EITHER THE 9MM OR 40SW IN WOUNDING CARARISTICS.
Link Posted: 6/28/2003 3:22:27 PM EDT
OK Charles, so the Secret Service just said eenie meanie miney moe and chose the Sig Sauer in .357 Sig?

Could it be because it is flatter shooting and more accurate. I don't know, but there has to be a reason. If it is not performance, and its not to thumb their nose (maybe sheriff's who are political by nature pull crap like this, but not the USSS), what is the reason?
Link Posted: 6/28/2003 11:53:51 PM EDT
Yes, I too would think the USSS decision to adopt .357 SIG would be a little more than just agency rivalry. It is the President's life we are talking about after all. Would the adoption of the round have been because of the (perceived/supposed?) ability of the .357 SIG to penetrate body armor and obstacles?
Link Posted: 6/29/2003 8:33:38 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/29/2003 5:06:41 PM EDT
I could care less why they chose the 357sig, or for that matter what they use. I'm not arguing why they chose it. I'm presenting facts that it offers no advantage to the 9mm in comparable loads.
Link Posted: 6/29/2003 5:19:55 PM EDT
Whatever. The fact is that most guns designed to take +P+ loads are not designed to feed a constant diet of that ammunition, many 9mm pistols aren't rated to fire it at all. Any gun designed to fire the 357 Sig will be able to feed it throughout its service life. You can also get hot 357 Sig loads like Corbon that I'm pretty damn sure rival +p+ 9mm. The 357 Sig load is far more accurate than 9mm, and yes, I've benched them off of similar platforms - Glock 19 and Glock 32 fired from a rest at 100 yards. The Glock 32 in 357 Sig held consistant 3 inch groups.

And I will say it again, the USSS has the most important law enforcement job in the world, protecting the President of the United States, to that end they demand and receive the very best in equipment. If there were no advantages to the .357 Sig round they wouldn't be carrying it. End of story.
Link Posted: 6/29/2003 7:38:46 PM EDT
I heard that the .357SIG does tearup guns faster since most of the guns that shoot it were designed for the .40 S&W.

That said, I still like my .357SIG. I only pay $1 more vs. .40.

BTW, mine is shot out of a SIG229.
Link Posted: 6/29/2003 7:48:40 PM EDT
You can safelt shoot .357 out of a thrid gen Glock 23 because the rails were reinforced to handle it, none of the 1st gen glock 23s and only some of the second gens had the rails beefed up. A third gen Glock 32 can feed .357 Sig without problems as it was designed from the ground up to handle it.
Link Posted: 6/30/2003 3:30:26 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/30/2003 4:03:19 PM EDT
Well Troy I guess I'm SOL when it comes to my Walther P99 because it won't feed 147 grain 9mm rounds... So your argument that the 147 grain bullet is the prefered choice over a .357 Sig doesn't hold water if the bullet you are proposing doesn't function in all 9mm handguns.
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