User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
USA
|
Posted: 9/18/2023 7:48:46 PM EST
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Geralt55: Thoughts on this? https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/144599/federal-30-super-carry-1-1200x800-2955895.jpg Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Geralt55: Originally Posted By ALASKANFIRE: Originally Posted By Dino11: I have multiples of different calibers in the 1911 platform, but not one single 9mm. I have several .45ACP, a couple 10mm, and a single .40S&W and a 38 super. Now that I think of it I don't even own a single 9mm in anything. The caliber just never appealed to me. Seems like a wimpy round, even though I know it has a very loyal following. A very good friend of mine is the Armorer for the US Marshall's out of Cleveland, Ohio. He has done very extensive testing of several different fire arms. I have seen US Marshall video of 9mm bouncing off of car windshields, were as .40S&W would penetrate every round. 9mm would take multiple hits in the same area to penetrate. Their is just not enough mass to do the job with a significant success rate. Not that it would not penetrate on the first hit every single time, but enough failures to warrant skepticism. The one advantage of 9mm that leads to it's success is cost, but as a reloader the cost is a mute point compared to loading other rounds. 10mm being my favorite 1911 round since I reload for it to true spec 10mm. I hit steel plates at 200 yards with 10mm HST@1200FPS on a regular basis, try that with 9mm and make that plate thump. I think that some of the 9mm hype is trumped up due to it's popularity to the cheap and weak wrist-ed shooters, but advancement in the round has come a long ways the past decade. A torso hit with a .45ACP compared to a torso hit with 9mm is two different animals, the .45 is gonna knock you on your ass and put big gaping hole in you. Like getting hit with a small boulder to getting hit with a small rock. Stick your thumb in that hole to slow the bleeding, definitely more lethal. You really think a 1/10" and less than 90 grains of mass going the same speed or slower is going to be a substantial difference? I notice in your car windshield story you didn't mention 45. Is that because it also bounced? I have heard of that in a test vs 40. 40 is a solid penetrator for sure. Thoughts on this? https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/144599/federal-30-super-carry-1-1200x800-2955895.jpg |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/19/2023 2:40:52 AM EST
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 03RN: Posted expanded diameters only tells part of the story. I stopped culling deer with a 9mm where I won't hesitate to hunt deer with a .45 Eta, I find it amusing that you initially said they were equal then you say the .45 is marginally better. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 03RN: Originally Posted By MK318: Originally Posted By 03RN: Originally Posted By MK318: Originally Posted By Dino11: I have multiples of different calibers in the 1911 platform, but not one single 9mm. I have several .45ACP, a couple 10mm, and a single .40S&W and a 38 super. Now that I think of it I don't even own a single 9mm in anything. The caliber just never appealed to me. Seems like a wimpy round, even though I know it has a very loyal following. A very good friend of mine is the Armorer for the US Marshall's out of Cleveland, Ohio. He has done very extensive testing of several different fire arms. I have seen US Marshall video of 9mm bouncing off of car windshields, were as .40S&W would penetrate every round. 9mm would take multiple hits in the same area to penetrate. Their is just not enough mass to do the job with a significant success rate. Not that it would not penetrate on the first hit every single time, but enough failures to warrant skepticism. The one advantage of 9mm that leads to it's success is cost, but as a reloader the cost is a mute point compared to loading other rounds. 10mm being my favorite 1911 round since I reload for it to true spec 10mm. I hit steel plates at 200 yards with 10mm HST@1200FPS on a regular basis, try that with 9mm and make that plate thump. I think that some of the 9mm hype is trumped up due to it's popularity to the cheap and weak wrist-ed shooters, but advancement in the round has come a long ways the past decade. A torso hit with a .45ACP compared to a torso hit with 9mm is two different animals, the .45 is gonna knock you on your ass and put big gaping hole in you. Like getting hit with a small boulder to getting hit with a small rock. Stick your thumb in that hole to slow the bleeding, definitely more lethal. I’ve been through a few classes where we fired through side windows with tempered glass as well as windshields. I’ve never had or seen a 9mm not pen either. I’ve seen jacket separation on non-bonded bullets but that was also a factor with every single handgun round that was used, .40, .45, .357 Sig. Im not sure why the myth of 9mm bouncing off windshields continues on in the age of the internet but here we are. Modern pistol ammunition has made all the calibers suck about the same. There is no real advantage one pistol caliber has over another as far as 9mm vs 45 they both suck equally well now days.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tt7fKEh1HNQLol no. The Internet has pushed the 9mm is the same as the 45 as well. That myth needs to die. Modern 9mm jhp is better and I don't really feel under gunned with it but the .45 is still more effective. The reason departments a switching is due to cost. .45 is marginally better under very limited circumstances. For the most part .45 and 9mm perform very close. The extra recoil, lower capacity and extra cost isn’t worth that tiny bit of extra mass. Bigger doesn’t always equal better. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/557335/IMG_3102_jpeg-2958117.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/557335/IMG_3106_png-2958121.JPG Posted expanded diameters only tells part of the story. I stopped culling deer with a 9mm where I won't hesitate to hunt deer with a .45 Eta, I find it amusing that you initially said they were equal then you say the .45 is marginally better. I was trying to make you feel better. You seemed to take it personally and be on the defensive when I said .45 sucks. I figured I could soften up the pain by adding marginally since on any given day, one may perform marginally better than the other. I will say this though, handguns suck. It doesn’t matter, 9mm, .45. they both suck. You should train with whatever pistol you carry as much as possible to help over come the poor performance of handgun rounds. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/19/2023 2:47:31 AM EST
[#3]
Get both.
But if you're going to get 9mm then get a 2011 for the high capacity. Put optics on them all. Profit. |
|
|
|
NJ, USA
|
Posted: 9/24/2023 7:38:45 PM EST
[#4]
I was curious about 9mm 1911 a few years ago. I picked up a Rock Island Tac MS 9mm 1911. The pistol was pretty heavy with a full length rail. The gun was 100% reliable, and very accurate. The trigger was awesome also. Every time I shot it though, I couldnt stop thinking that rather than a 9mm 1911 , I woul rather be using one of my Browning Hi Powers. I ended up selling my Eock Island last year and then getting a SA 35. At least for now I am goin to keep on using 1911's in 45 and the SA 35 for 9mm.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/24/2023 8:33:56 PM EST
[Last Edit: Bklyn_Irish]
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 03RN: Lol no. The Internet has pushed the 9mm is the same as the 45 as well. That myth needs to die. Modern 9mm jhp is better and I don't really feel under gunned with it but the .45 is still more effective. The reason departments a switching is due to cost. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 03RN: Originally Posted By MK318: Originally Posted By Dino11: I have multiples of different calibers in the 1911 platform, but not one single 9mm. I have several .45ACP, a couple 10mm, and a single .40S&W and a 38 super. Now that I think of it I don't even own a single 9mm in anything. The caliber just never appealed to me. Seems like a wimpy round, even though I know it has a very loyal following. A very good friend of mine is the Armorer for the US Marshall's out of Cleveland, Ohio. He has done very extensive testing of several different fire arms. I have seen US Marshall video of 9mm bouncing off of car windshields, were as .40S&W would penetrate every round. 9mm would take multiple hits in the same area to penetrate. Their is just not enough mass to do the job with a significant success rate. Not that it would not penetrate on the first hit every single time, but enough failures to warrant skepticism. The one advantage of 9mm that leads to it's success is cost, but as a reloader the cost is a mute point compared to loading other rounds. 10mm being my favorite 1911 round since I reload for it to true spec 10mm. I hit steel plates at 200 yards with 10mm HST@1200FPS on a regular basis, try that with 9mm and make that plate thump. I think that some of the 9mm hype is trumped up due to it's popularity to the cheap and weak wrist-ed shooters, but advancement in the round has come a long ways the past decade. A torso hit with a .45ACP compared to a torso hit with 9mm is two different animals, the .45 is gonna knock you on your ass and put big gaping hole in you. Like getting hit with a small boulder to getting hit with a small rock. Stick your thumb in that hole to slow the bleeding, definitely more lethal. I’ve been through a few classes where we fired through side windows with tempered glass as well as windshields. I’ve never had or seen a 9mm not pen either. I’ve seen jacket separation on non-bonded bullets but that was also a factor with every single handgun round that was used, .40, .45, .357 Sig. Im not sure why the myth of 9mm bouncing off windshields continues on in the age of the internet but here we are. Modern pistol ammunition has made all the calibers suck about the same. There is no real advantage one pistol caliber has over another as far as 9mm vs 45 they both suck equally well now days. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tt7fKEh1HNQLol no. The Internet has pushed the 9mm is the same as the 45 as well. That myth needs to die. Modern 9mm jhp is better and I don't really feel under gunned with it but the .45 is still more effective. The reason departments a switching is due to cost. Far from being the main reason. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/24/2023 8:37:19 PM EST
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bklyn_Irish: Far from being the main reason. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bklyn_Irish: Originally Posted By 03RN: Originally Posted By MK318: Originally Posted By Dino11: I have multiples of different calibers in the 1911 platform, but not one single 9mm. I have several .45ACP, a couple 10mm, and a single .40S&W and a 38 super. Now that I think of it I don't even own a single 9mm in anything. The caliber just never appealed to me. Seems like a wimpy round, even though I know it has a very loyal following. A very good friend of mine is the Armorer for the US Marshall's out of Cleveland, Ohio. He has done very extensive testing of several different fire arms. I have seen US Marshall video of 9mm bouncing off of car windshields, were as .40S&W would penetrate every round. 9mm would take multiple hits in the same area to penetrate. Their is just not enough mass to do the job with a significant success rate. Not that it would not penetrate on the first hit every single time, but enough failures to warrant skepticism. The one advantage of 9mm that leads to it's success is cost, but as a reloader the cost is a mute point compared to loading other rounds. 10mm being my favorite 1911 round since I reload for it to true spec 10mm. I hit steel plates at 200 yards with 10mm HST@1200FPS on a regular basis, try that with 9mm and make that plate thump. I think that some of the 9mm hype is trumped up due to it's popularity to the cheap and weak wrist-ed shooters, but advancement in the round has come a long ways the past decade. A torso hit with a .45ACP compared to a torso hit with 9mm is two different animals, the .45 is gonna knock you on your ass and put big gaping hole in you. Like getting hit with a small boulder to getting hit with a small rock. Stick your thumb in that hole to slow the bleeding, definitely more lethal. I’ve been through a few classes where we fired through side windows with tempered glass as well as windshields. I’ve never had or seen a 9mm not pen either. I’ve seen jacket separation on non-bonded bullets but that was also a factor with every single handgun round that was used, .40, .45, .357 Sig. Im not sure why the myth of 9mm bouncing off windshields continues on in the age of the internet but here we are. Modern pistol ammunition has made all the calibers suck about the same. There is no real advantage one pistol caliber has over another as far as 9mm vs 45 they both suck equally well now days. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tt7fKEh1HNQLol no. The Internet has pushed the 9mm is the same as the 45 as well. That myth needs to die. Modern 9mm jhp is better and I don't really feel under gunned with it but the .45 is still more effective. The reason departments a switching is due to cost. Far from being the main reason. What do you think is the main reason? |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/24/2023 9:04:23 PM EST
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 03RN: What do you think is the main reason? Cost. Performance. Quota Hires. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/24/2023 9:15:22 PM EST
[#8]
My opinion of 9mm in a 1911 is the same as my opinion of 5.56 in an AR10.
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/29/2023 7:54:31 AM EST
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bad2006z71: I like them. I don't really shoot 45 much anymore. https://i.imgur.com/f1k2bZrh.jpg?1 I guess it boils down to what do you want to do with it. If ya like the 1911 and 9mm, why the hell not? I have a bad confession that I’ll probably catch some shit about, my 9mms, one is my duty weapon, the other is my off duty weapon, and I shoot them when I HAVE TO. The duty weapon is a Sig P320 RXP-C, and the off duty weapon is a S&W Shield Plus. I’ve got a few other 9mm pistols, all former duty weapons that I ignore. Now, my FUN guns are my Colt Python, Kimber SSII 1911, my lever action Winchester 94 in 30-30, and a Henry lever action .22 that I shoot a few times a week. There is a big following in a competitive group that all shoot 9mm 1911s, these are “race guns”. I’ve as of yet to get bitten by the 9mm 1911 bug. In all fairness, I get a kick out of my Kimber in .45acp, in fact, I am starting a run of 45 on my press today to make up some more play ammo. Are you shooting factory ammo in your 9mm 1911s or are you making your own play ammo? I’m assuming you handload. I just get that feel that you are. I could be wrong, but I get the feeling that you shoot often. |
|
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2023 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
