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Posted: 9/2/2023 3:49:47 PM EST
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ken_mays: Used to be if you needed a reliable 9mm 1911 you’d go with a STI Trojan. STI knew how to make them reliable and accurate. Sure, you could buy Colts, Kimbers or Springfield but you could count on having to do a lot of work to match the Trojan’s out of box performance. None of those shops really had cracked the code and some still haven’t. I don't think I ever sent a Kimber or Springfield 9mm back same with Smith and Wesson. Don't remember selling any Colts. |
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Posted: 9/2/2023 4:11:02 PM EST
[Last Edit: sgtlmj]
[#2]
Still waiting on Tisas to release this, then I will own a 9mm 1911. They've already said this will be offered in 9mm and 45.:
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OH, USA
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Posted: 9/2/2023 5:02:28 PM EST
[#3]
It basically looks like it's a Service Special with an arched main spring housing and some different sights. But the sights are not much different than what comes on them already. They are larger on the Service model than what comes on the GI model. I like my Service Pistol as a great and accurate shooter that I have no qualms about beating on it compared to my more expensive ones that really don't shoot much better.
Need to go out and throw my Tisas down the driveway and run it over with the truck a couple times. That will give it the well used look, not that I already shoot it a ton more than the others. Last time at the range we were trying to hit clay pigeons at 115 yards with it with some success shooting 230gn ball loaded over 6.4gn of W231, not exactly a very stout combination but accurate and clean burning. |
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Posted: 9/2/2023 5:06:16 PM EST
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dino11: It basically looks like it's a Service Special with an arched main spring housing and some different sights. But the sights are not much different than what comes on them already. They are larger on the Service model than what comes on the GI . It’s just their 4.25” Tank Commander with an aluminum frame. Service is a 5”. They did start beefing up the sights. |
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Posted: 9/2/2023 6:13:25 PM EST
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dino11: It basically looks like it's a Service Special with an arched main spring housing and some different sights. But the sights are not much different than what comes on them already. They are larger on the Service model than what comes on the GI model. I like my Service Pistol as a great and accurate shooter that I have no qualms about beating on it compared to my more expensive ones that really don't shoot much better. Need to go out and throw my Tisas down the driveway and run it over with the truck a couple times. That will give it the well used look, not that I already shoot it a ton more than the others. Last time at the range we were trying to hit clay pigeons at 115 yards with it with some success shooting 230gn ball loaded over 6.4gn of W231, not exactly a very stout combination but accurate and clean burning. Might want to double check that load  Attached File |
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Posted: 9/2/2023 7:40:17 PM EST
[#6]
I just got home from a pistol class today, there where a few guns that jammed. the only ones that did it more than once where a sig 320 and a glock 19. My staccato c2 went all 350 rounds or so with no issue.
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Posted: 9/2/2023 7:46:57 PM EST
[#7]
I have a Dan Wesson 1911 in 9mm, but that's just for playing in SingleStack Division in USPSA. I also have a .40 S&W chambered 1911 that I will probably have the top-end grafted to a new 2011 grip, and the frame get a new bushing-barrel .45ACP top end.
Mine is just a range toy essentially, but it works and is very accurate. |
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Posted: 9/2/2023 8:12:35 PM EST
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Roland-G23: I have a Dan Wesson 1911 in 9mm, but that's just for playing in SingleStack Division in USPSA. I also have a .40 S&W chambered 1911 that I will probably have the top-end grafted to a new 2011 grip, and the frame get a new bushing-barrel .45ACP top end. Mine is just a range toy essentially, but it works and is very accurate. ...but you'd take that DW 9mm seriously as a defensive handgun? |
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Posted: 9/2/2023 8:19:54 PM EST
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ALASKANFIRE: Cost for one. I don't know about the kimber but with the Wilson and Dan Wesson they start at over double what you can get a decent 1911 at. No question an EDC is a fine gun but 1911's also have a lot things going for them like an almost infinite variety of parts and accessories which people love changing out. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ALASKANFIRE: Originally Posted By lilMAC25: Why not consider something like the Wilson Combat EDC9 or the Kimber KDS9C or even a Dan Wesson DWX or DXWC (1911 and 1911 controls and trigger on a CZ grip). These are slightly sized down to take advantage of the 9mm round’s smaller size, yet double stack. Me personally, given a high enough quality firearm, would carry a 9mm 1911 in a heartbeat. I’ve even dithered with moving one of my rifles and the accoutrement to acquire a DWX or an Alchmey Quantico HiCap. Cost for one. I don't know about the kimber but with the Wilson and Dan Wesson they start at over double what you can get a decent 1911 at. No question an EDC is a fine gun but 1911's also have a lot things going for them like an almost infinite variety of parts and accessories which people love changing out. Price is certainly the biggest drawback. |
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Posted: 9/2/2023 8:33:14 PM EST
[Last Edit: ALASKANFIRE]
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lilMAC25: Price is certainly the biggest drawback. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lilMAC25: Originally Posted By ALASKANFIRE: Originally Posted By lilMAC25: Why not consider something like the Wilson Combat EDC9 or the Kimber KDS9C or even a Dan Wesson DWX or DXWC (1911 and 1911 controls and trigger on a CZ grip). These are slightly sized down to take advantage of the 9mm round’s smaller size, yet double stack. Me personally, given a high enough quality firearm, would carry a 9mm 1911 in a heartbeat. I’ve even dithered with moving one of my rifles and the accoutrement to acquire a DWX or an Alchmey Quantico HiCap. Cost for one. I don't know about the kimber but with the Wilson and Dan Wesson they start at over double what you can get a decent 1911 at. No question an EDC is a fine gun but 1911's also have a lot things going for them like an almost infinite variety of parts and accessories which people love changing out. Price is certainly the biggest drawback. I bought my RIA used at a local store for a great price. Think it was $350 or less. Thing just runs. I know what it is but I still laugh about it running like a champ right out of the gate and none of my STI's did. Part of me thought about upgrading the guts but by the time I was done I'd have spent more than I did on the gun  Even with all the stupid things I buy there's some mental block upgrading cheap guns for me. The luck I had is why I grabbed the 22 TCM/9mm doublestack gun the same store had used. Attached File |
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Posted: 9/3/2023 10:50:13 AM EST
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bklyn_Irish: ...but you'd take that DW 9mm seriously as a defensive handgun? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bklyn_Irish: Originally Posted By Roland-G23: I have a Dan Wesson 1911 in 9mm, but that's just for playing in SingleStack Division in USPSA. I also have a .40 S&W chambered 1911 that I will probably have the top-end grafted to a new 2011 grip, and the frame get a new bushing-barrel .45ACP top end. Mine is just a range toy essentially, but it works and is very accurate. ...but you'd take that DW 9mm seriously as a defensive handgun? I have 9mm Ronin that I carry on a regular basis. I would not carry it if I did not take it seriously. |
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WI, USA
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Posted: 9/3/2023 1:33:00 PM EST
[#12]
I bought mine because I love the 1911 platform, and I figured 9mm would be cheaper to shoot. I dont shoot it much but it is accurate and not too bad looking.
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Posted: 9/3/2023 1:39:31 PM EST
[#13]
If I'm going to be limited to a maximun of 10 shots in a mag, I want them to be big'uns.
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WA, USA
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Posted: 9/3/2023 1:45:03 PM EST
[#14]
Yep I like it, carry it more in the fall and winter though.
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TX, USA
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Posted: 9/13/2023 3:55:50 PM EST
[#15]
I never disliked 9mm 1911s but I liked a traditional 1911, until I got my 9mm ACW. Now I intend to sell off all but one .45, as the 9mm is s dream to shoot, cheaper ammo, easier to find defensive ammo, 10+1 in the gun and a spare mag that doesn't have a big protuberance on it to also carry 10rds(so I get 4rds over a .45 typically). The lighter recoil allows for easier/quicker follow up shots. To combat the "I'll carry something else in 9mm" argument, is the trigger, accuracy and feel of a 1911 not the reason it is appealing? not jut the round?
Shooting a .45 is indeed fun on occasion, but personally I think a 9mm makes WAY more sense. A con to the 9mm is: I thought it would be handy to be able to share ammo with my glocks vs having to buy .45, so I could be sure to practice with my glocks because 9mm is cheap and easy. Now I only want to shoot my 9mm 1911 and not the glocks or even the .45 1911s most times |
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Posted: 9/13/2023 4:33:17 PM EST
[#16]
Elderly wemin can easily rack the slide on a 5" 9x19mm w/ the hammer cocked. With an aluminum frame, a 5" 9x19mm 1911 is probably an ideal house or car pistol for your grandma or MIL.
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Posted: 9/13/2023 4:41:46 PM EST
[#17]
My Colt 1911's in 9mm run perfectly, and have right out of the box.
My Springfield Garrison is going back |
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Posted: 9/13/2023 6:31:02 PM EST
[#18]
A lot of folks talk about how the gun carries, but if you carry every single day, a flat mag or two is real easy to get used to.
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Posted: 9/14/2023 8:35:01 PM EST
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By azmp5:  9mm 1911...they way it should have been originally [img]http://www.ar15.com/images/smilies/anim_peep.gif[/img Dayum!! Balls - you got ‘em! I only have one in 9mm…because .38 Super is the right answer… |
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OH, USA
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Posted: 9/15/2023 5:29:22 PM EST
[#20]
I have a few, really fun and inexpensive guns to shoot, I realize the 45 will always be the king of the hill in this case, but there is room for the 9MM.
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OH, USA
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Posted: 9/15/2023 6:46:24 PM EST
[Last Edit: Dino11]
[#21]
I have multiples of different calibers in the 1911 platform, but not one single 9mm. I have several .45ACP, a couple 10mm, and a single .40S&W and a 38 super. Now that I think of it I don't even own a single 9mm in anything. The caliber just never appealed to me. Seems like a wimpy round, even though I know it has a very loyal following.
A very good friend of mine is the Armorer for the US Marshall's out of Cleveland, Ohio. He has done very extensive testing of several different fire arms. I have seen US Marshall video of 9mm bouncing off of car windshields, were as .40S&W would penetrate every round. 9mm would take multiple hits in the same area to penetrate. Their is just not enough mass to do the job with a significant success rate. Not that it would not penetrate on the first hit every single time, but enough failures to warrant skepticism. The one advantage of 9mm that leads to it's success is cost, but as a reloader the cost is a mute point compared to loading other rounds. 10mm being my favorite 1911 round since I reload for it to true spec 10mm. I hit steel plates at 200 yards with 10mm HST@1200FPS on a regular basis, try that with 9mm and make that plate thump. I think that some of the 9mm hype is trumped up due to it's popularity to the cheap and weak wrist-ed shooters, but advancement in the round has come a long ways the past decade. A torso hit with a .45ACP compared to a torso hit with 9mm is two different animals, the .45 is gonna knock you on your ass and put big gaping hole in you. Like getting hit with a small boulder to getting hit with a small rock. Stick your thumb in that hole to slow the bleeding, definitely more lethal. |
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Posted: 9/15/2023 7:02:20 PM EST
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dino11: I have multiples of different calibers in the 1911 platform, but not one single 9mm. I have several .45ACP, a couple 10mm, and a single .40S&W and a 38 super. Now that I think of it I don't even own a single 9mm in anything. The caliber just never appealed to me. Seems like a wimpy round, even though I know it has a very loyal following. A very good friend of mine is the Armorer for the US Marshall's out of Cleveland, Ohio. He has done very extensive testing of several different fire arms. I have seen US Marshall video of 9mm bouncing off of car windshields, were as .40S&W would penetrate every round. 9mm would take multiple hits in the same area to penetrate. Their is just not enough mass to do the job with a significant success rate. Not that it would not penetrate on the first hit every single time, but enough failures to warrant skepticism. The one advantage of 9mm that leads to it's success is cost, but as a reloader the cost is a mute point compared to loading other rounds. 10mm being my favorite 1911 round since I reload for it to true spec 10mm. I hit steel plates at 200 yards with 10mm HST@1200FPS on a regular basis, try that with 9mm and make that plate thump. I think that some of the 9mm hype is trumped up due to it's popularity to the cheap and weak wrist-ed shooters, but advancement in the round has come a long ways the past decade. A torso hit with a .45ACP compared to a torso hit with 9mm is two different animals, the .45 is gonna knock you on your ass and put big gaping hole in you. Like getting hit with a small boulder to getting hit with a small rock. Stick your thumb in that hole to slow the bleeding, definitely more lethal. Yes, more powerful cartridges will penetrate sloped windshield glass better. Is that a requirement for most folks' EDC? Check the numerous articles here and elsewhere - emergency room docs don't see much difference in the wounding damage of pistol calibers - .45 ACP is not definitely more lethal. Recoil doesn't mean significantly increased terminal ballistics. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 9/15/2023 9:24:04 PM EST
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By StaccatoC2: I just got home from a pistol class today, there where a few guns that jammed. the only ones that did it more than once where a sig 320 and a glock 19. My staccato c2 went all 350 rounds or so with no issue. Stock G19 or modified? |
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Posted: 9/15/2023 11:24:31 PM EST
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By backbencher: Yes, more powerful cartridges will penetrate sloped windshield glass better. Is that a requirement for most folks' EDC? Check the numerous articles here and elsewhere - emergency room docs don't see much difference in the wounding damage of pistol calibers - .45 ACP is not definitely more lethal. Recoil doesn't mean significantly increased terminal ballistics. Have to ack this 100%... 1911's or 2011's in 9mm (or mild side .38 Super) are really easy to shoot well. Frankly, a lot of modern .45 range/ball ammo is pretty weak sauce too. Real 230 at 850+ is not "like cheating" without decent practice IME. |
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Posted: 9/15/2023 11:47:15 PM EST
[#25]
I want a 2011/1911 or both, but I will only buy 9mm. not going to stock another caliber.
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Posted: 9/16/2023 6:58:16 AM EST
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dino11: A torso hit with a .45ACP compared to a torso hit with 9mm is two different animals, the .45 is gonna knock you on your ass and put big gaping hole in you. Like getting hit with a small boulder to getting hit with a small rock. Stick your thumb in that hole to slow the bleeding, definitely more lethal.  It's really not that big of a difference. Even though I'm carrying a .45. Actually I'm carry my heavy 255gr swc at 950fps right now which does show a big increase in performance on large deer and coyotes. Especially vs bone. |
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Posted: 9/16/2023 7:01:20 AM EST
[#27]
I own but one 1911, in 9mm.
I purchased this Springfield Range Officer Elite in 2019, it's a Champion [commander] length. More rounds at this time than I can count, and it just runs and runs. It has had only 1 stoppage, caused by reloaded Freedom Arms ammo, in which the case stuck in the chamber, and I had to use a dowel to clear it. If I had to guess, it's fired over 3000+ rounds. Stock parts, except for the thin grips. In 2022 it went to CHPWS for the direct mill for the RMRcc, because, my eyes. The Black T finish hasn't held up too well, but it's alot of holster wear.  Attached File |
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Posted: 9/16/2023 7:07:39 AM EST
[#28]
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Posted: 9/16/2023 11:54:31 AM EST
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dino11: I have multiples of different calibers in the 1911 platform, but not one single 9mm. I have several .45ACP, a couple 10mm, and a single .40S&W and a 38 super. Now that I think of it I don't even own a single 9mm in anything. The caliber just never appealed to me. Seems like a wimpy round, even though I know it has a very loyal following. A very good friend of mine is the Armorer for the US Marshall's out of Cleveland, Ohio. He has done very extensive testing of several different fire arms. I have seen US Marshall video of 9mm bouncing off of car windshields, were as .40S&W would penetrate every round. 9mm would take multiple hits in the same area to penetrate. Their is just not enough mass to do the job with a significant success rate. Not that it would not penetrate on the first hit every single time, but enough failures to warrant skepticism. The one advantage of 9mm that leads to it's success is cost, but as a reloader the cost is a mute point compared to loading other rounds. 10mm being my favorite 1911 round since I reload for it to true spec 10mm. I hit steel plates at 200 yards with 10mm HST@1200FPS on a regular basis, try that with 9mm and make that plate thump. I think that some of the 9mm hype is trumped up due to it's popularity to the cheap and weak wrist-ed shooters, but advancement in the round has come a long ways the past decade. A torso hit with a .45ACP compared to a torso hit with 9mm is two different animals, the .45 is gonna knock you on your ass and put big gaping hole in you. Like getting hit with a small boulder to getting hit with a small rock. Stick your thumb in that hole to slow the bleeding, definitely more lethal. You really think a 1/10" and less than 90 grains of mass going the same speed or slower is going to be a substantial difference? I notice in your car windshield story you didn't mention 45. Is that because it also bounced? I have heard of that in a test vs 40. 40 is a solid penetrator for sure. |
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Posted: 9/16/2023 12:45:18 PM EST
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ALASKANFIRE: You really think a 1/10" and less than 90 grains of mass going the same speed or slower is going to be a substantial difference? I notice in your car windshield story you didn't mention 45. Is that because it also bounced? I have heard of that in a test vs 40. 40 is a solid penetrator for sure. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ALASKANFIRE: Originally Posted By Dino11: I have multiples of different calibers in the 1911 platform, but not one single 9mm. I have several .45ACP, a couple 10mm, and a single .40S&W and a 38 super. Now that I think of it I don't even own a single 9mm in anything. The caliber just never appealed to me. Seems like a wimpy round, even though I know it has a very loyal following. A very good friend of mine is the Armorer for the US Marshall's out of Cleveland, Ohio. He has done very extensive testing of several different fire arms. I have seen US Marshall video of 9mm bouncing off of car windshields, were as .40S&W would penetrate every round. 9mm would take multiple hits in the same area to penetrate. Their is just not enough mass to do the job with a significant success rate. Not that it would not penetrate on the first hit every single time, but enough failures to warrant skepticism. The one advantage of 9mm that leads to it's success is cost, but as a reloader the cost is a mute point compared to loading other rounds. 10mm being my favorite 1911 round since I reload for it to true spec 10mm. I hit steel plates at 200 yards with 10mm HST@1200FPS on a regular basis, try that with 9mm and make that plate thump. I think that some of the 9mm hype is trumped up due to it's popularity to the cheap and weak wrist-ed shooters, but advancement in the round has come a long ways the past decade. A torso hit with a .45ACP compared to a torso hit with 9mm is two different animals, the .45 is gonna knock you on your ass and put big gaping hole in you. Like getting hit with a small boulder to getting hit with a small rock. Stick your thumb in that hole to slow the bleeding, definitely more lethal. You really think a 1/10" and less than 90 grains of mass going the same speed or slower is going to be a substantial difference? I notice in your car windshield story you didn't mention 45. Is that because it also bounced? I have heard of that in a test vs 40. 40 is a solid penetrator for sure. Thoughts on this? 
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Posted: 9/16/2023 12:51:48 PM EST
[Last Edit: ALASKANFIRE]
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Geralt55: Thoughts on this? https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/144599/federal-30-super-carry-1-1200x800-2955895.jpg I love the idea of it but unless it gets adopted I fear it will disappear. I've always been of the mindset that almost all standard handgun loads are close enough in performance that it doesn't really matter. We love getting lost in details even if they don't apply or matter or at least I do. What I've been saying since I've heard about it is that I am more interested in seeing it in a big gun that can maximize the capacity advantage. Take something like the DWX or similar double stack built around 9mn and give it 30rd mags. |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 9/16/2023 2:43:01 PM EST
[#32]
Been a 45 1911 and a Hi Power fan for about thirty years. Recently got a Garrison in 9mm due to being half the price to shoot compared to .45 and still having same feel and controls as my Colt and TRP. Wound up liking it so much it became my favorite fun gun. Until I got an Alpha Foxtrot Commander with threaded barrel in ….9mm. Really fast and fun to shoot. I also have a bunch of Glocks and they work, but so does my lawn mower. Leaves me feeling just like I wasted money after shooting them.
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Posted: 9/16/2023 3:36:45 PM EST
[Last Edit: Geralt55]
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ALASKANFIRE: I love the idea of it but unless it gets adopted I fear it will disappear. I've always been of the mindset that almost all standard handgun loads are close enough in performance that it doesn't really matter. We love getting lost in details even if they don't apply or matter or at least I do. What I've been saying since I've heard about it is that I am more interested in seeing it in a big gun that can maximize the capacity advantage. Take something like the DWX or similar double stack built around 9mn and give it 30rd mags. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ALASKANFIRE: Originally Posted By Geralt55: Thoughts on this? https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/144599/federal-30-super-carry-1-1200x800-2955895.jpg I love the idea of it but unless it gets adopted I fear it will disappear. I've always been of the mindset that almost all standard handgun loads are close enough in performance that it doesn't really matter. We love getting lost in details even if they don't apply or matter or at least I do. What I've been saying since I've heard about it is that I am more interested in seeing it in a big gun that can maximize the capacity advantage. Take something like the DWX or similar double stack built around 9mn and give it 30rd mags. Oh wow that's a thought - something like a fullsize beretta might hold a gaudy amount of them in the 20rd magazine size format. With shockingly low recoil I'm a .45 guy at heart, I'm one of the believer in a bunch of that - BUT I think there's logic to the smaller calibers (Sub service caliber size I mean, 45/40/9). The 327 Federal can be plenty zippy in the 2in revolvers (which gives modern hollowpoints sufficient velocity to expand reliably), and can hold 6 rounds in a J-frame sized format. For CCW use, I don't think that's nothing |
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Posted: 9/16/2023 4:10:29 PM EST
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Geralt55: Oh wow that's a thought - something like a fullsize beretta might hold a gaudy amount of them in the 20rd magazine size format. With shockingly low recoil I'm a .45 guy at heart, I'm one of the believer in a bunch of that - BUT I think there's logic to the smaller calibers (Sub service caliber size I mean, 45/40/9). The 327 Federal can be plenty zippy in the 2in revolvers (which gives modern hollowpoints sufficient velocity to expand reliably), and can hold 6 rounds in a J-frame sized format. For CCW use, I don't think that's nothing The recoil is almost negligible due to the locking block action as opposed to the tilting barrel. I use a 92x centurion, that's been LTT modified, as a match gun.  Attached File |
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Posted: 9/16/2023 5:11:10 PM EST
[#35]
A member here talked me into buying one a few years ago. It became my EDC quickly and remains so.
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Posted: 9/16/2023 5:34:09 PM EST
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Geralt55: Oh wow that's a thought - something like a fullsize beretta might hold a gaudy amount of them in the 20rd magazine size format. With shockingly low recoil Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Geralt55: Originally Posted By ALASKANFIRE: Originally Posted By Geralt55: Thoughts on this? https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/144599/federal-30-super-carry-1-1200x800-2955895.jpg I love the idea of it but unless it gets adopted I fear it will disappear. I've always been of the mindset that almost all standard handgun loads are close enough in performance that it doesn't really matter. We love getting lost in details even if they don't apply or matter or at least I do. What I've been saying since I've heard about it is that I am more interested in seeing it in a big gun that can maximize the capacity advantage. Take something like the DWX or similar double stack built around 9mn and give it 30rd mags. Oh wow that's a thought - something like a fullsize beretta might hold a gaudy amount of them in the 20rd magazine size format. With shockingly low recoil Yup. I'm guessing you could have a pretty light slide and recoil spring as well which might also make it a great gun for newer and/or weaker shooters. |
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OH, USA
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Posted: 9/16/2023 5:52:04 PM EST
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ALASKANFIRE: You really think a 1/10" and less than 90 grains of mass going the same speed or slower is going to be a substantial difference? I notice in your car windshield story you didn't mention 45. Is that because it also bounced? I have heard of that in a test vs 40. 40 is a solid penetrator for sure. Don't have data on .45, but that is a good point to ponder. One of my favorite calibers is the .40, I carry one everyday in the summer months, It is definitely a bone crusher compared to 9mm. But I have to wonder about the .45, the round is quite a bit heavier and therefore carries it's energy better even though it is traveling at a much slower FPS. I think it might come down to mass vs. speed thing. What's going to do more damage... a pebble hitting your windshield at 55mph, or a rock hitting your windshield at 35mph? Things that make you think outside the box. |
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Posted: 9/16/2023 6:31:21 PM EST
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By m4nut: The Beretta 92x, especially the centurion sized pistol, shoots extremely flat. The recoil is almost negligible due to the locking block action as opposed to the tilting barrel. I use a 92x centurion, that's been LTT modified, as a match gun. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/20054/20220616_152425_jpg-2956184.JPG Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By m4nut: Originally Posted By Geralt55: Oh wow that's a thought - something like a fullsize beretta might hold a gaudy amount of them in the 20rd magazine size format. With shockingly low recoil I'm a .45 guy at heart, I'm one of the believer in a bunch of that - BUT I think there's logic to the smaller calibers (Sub service caliber size I mean, 45/40/9). The 327 Federal can be plenty zippy in the 2in revolvers (which gives modern hollowpoints sufficient velocity to expand reliably), and can hold 6 rounds in a J-frame sized format. For CCW use, I don't think that's nothing The recoil is almost negligible due to the locking block action as opposed to the tilting barrel. I use a 92x centurion, that's been LTT modified, as a match gun. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/20054/20220616_152425_jpg-2956184.JPG I think berettas are under-rated. There are some very good polymer guns now, but I'm always fascinated by the reactions people have to shooting say 9mm 1911 or beretta, a "big" metal gun. For some of them it's a "...............hey wait a minute...." moment |
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Posted: 9/16/2023 6:32:33 PM EST
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AZNetEng: A member here talked me into buying one a few years ago. It became my EDC quickly and remains so. What size/configuration is it? Fullsize, CCO? |
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Posted: 9/16/2023 6:36:35 PM EST
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ALASKANFIRE: Yup. I'm guessing you could have a pretty light slide and recoil spring as well which might also make it a great gun for newer and/or weaker shooters. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ALASKANFIRE: Originally Posted By Geralt55: Originally Posted By ALASKANFIRE: Originally Posted By Geralt55: Thoughts on this? https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/144599/federal-30-super-carry-1-1200x800-2955895.jpg I love the idea of it but unless it gets adopted I fear it will disappear. I've always been of the mindset that almost all standard handgun loads are close enough in performance that it doesn't really matter. We love getting lost in details even if they don't apply or matter or at least I do. What I've been saying since I've heard about it is that I am more interested in seeing it in a big gun that can maximize the capacity advantage. Take something like the DWX or similar double stack built around 9mn and give it 30rd mags. Oh wow that's a thought - something like a fullsize beretta might hold a gaudy amount of them in the 20rd magazine size format. With shockingly low recoil Yup. I'm guessing you could have a pretty light slide and recoil spring as well which might also make it a great gun for newer and/or weaker shooters. It's a thing I try to keep in mind - there are people who have injuries that would mess with their ability to shoot, who probably need a gun for self defense more than I do  There's a place at the table for the lesser kicking calibers A 1911 with thin grips and a short trigger, chambered in 30 super carry might make a great pistol for a Wife's gun. She can reach all the controls, the recoil isn't there, and if she's willing to shoot and practice with it, it's better than a 45/40/9 that's left at home or never gets shot |
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Posted: 9/16/2023 6:36:48 PM EST
[#41]
Originally Posted By AFSOC_COP: Why is it I just can't warm up to the idea of a 1911 in 9mm? I hear so many great reviews of the Tisas Stingray for example but find myself taking out my Browning Hi-Power for a few magazines until the thought of buying a 9mm 1911 passes. I think it's a matter of holding only 1 or 2 more rounds of a weaker caliber than a .45 ACP chambered gun when modern 9mm handguns of a similar size can double the capacity of the 9mm 1911? If you own a 9mm 1911, what is it that drew you to owning one? What's the allure all about? Why do I want to buy one but just can't bring myself to getting one? |
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Posted: 9/17/2023 5:05:49 PM EST
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Geralt55: It's a thing I try to keep in mind - there are people who have injuries that would mess with their ability to shoot, who probably need a gun for self defense more than I do There's a place at the table for the lesser kicking calibers A 1911 with thin grips and a short trigger, chambered in 30 super carry might make a great pistol for a Wife's gun. She can reach all the controls, the recoil isn't there, and if she's willing to shoot and practice with it, it's better than a 45/40/9 that's left at home or never gets shot Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Geralt55: Originally Posted By ALASKANFIRE: Originally Posted By Geralt55: Originally Posted By ALASKANFIRE: Originally Posted By Geralt55: Thoughts on this? https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/144599/federal-30-super-carry-1-1200x800-2955895.jpg I love the idea of it but unless it gets adopted I fear it will disappear. I've always been of the mindset that almost all standard handgun loads are close enough in performance that it doesn't really matter. We love getting lost in details even if they don't apply or matter or at least I do. What I've been saying since I've heard about it is that I am more interested in seeing it in a big gun that can maximize the capacity advantage. Take something like the DWX or similar double stack built around 9mn and give it 30rd mags. Oh wow that's a thought - something like a fullsize beretta might hold a gaudy amount of them in the 20rd magazine size format. With shockingly low recoil Yup. I'm guessing you could have a pretty light slide and recoil spring as well which might also make it a great gun for newer and/or weaker shooters. It's a thing I try to keep in mind - there are people who have injuries that would mess with their ability to shoot, who probably need a gun for self defense more than I do There's a place at the table for the lesser kicking calibers A 1911 with thin grips and a short trigger, chambered in 30 super carry might make a great pistol for a Wife's gun. She can reach all the controls, the recoil isn't there, and if she's willing to shoot and practice with it, it's better than a 45/40/9 that's left at home or never gets shot There is a 1911 in .30 SC. |
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Posted: 9/17/2023 11:53:52 PM EST
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dino11: I have multiples of different calibers in the 1911 platform, but not one single 9mm. I have several .45ACP, a couple 10mm, and a single .40S&W and a 38 super. Now that I think of it I don't even own a single 9mm in anything. The caliber just never appealed to me. Seems like a wimpy round, even though I know it has a very loyal following. A very good friend of mine is the Armorer for the US Marshall's out of Cleveland, Ohio. He has done very extensive testing of several different fire arms. I have seen US Marshall video of 9mm bouncing off of car windshields, were as .40S&W would penetrate every round. 9mm would take multiple hits in the same area to penetrate. Their is just not enough mass to do the job with a significant success rate. Not that it would not penetrate on the first hit every single time, but enough failures to warrant skepticism. The one advantage of 9mm that leads to it's success is cost, but as a reloader the cost is a mute point compared to loading other rounds. 10mm being my favorite 1911 round since I reload for it to true spec 10mm. I hit steel plates at 200 yards with 10mm HST@1200FPS on a regular basis, try that with 9mm and make that plate thump. I think that some of the 9mm hype is trumped up due to it's popularity to the cheap and weak wrist-ed shooters, but advancement in the round has come a long ways the past decade. A torso hit with a .45ACP compared to a torso hit with 9mm is two different animals, the .45 is gonna knock you on your ass and put big gaping hole in you. Like getting hit with a small boulder to getting hit with a small rock. Stick your thumb in that hole to slow the bleeding, definitely more lethal. I’ve been through a few classes where we fired through side windows with tempered glass as well as windshields. I’ve never had or seen a 9mm not pen either. I’ve seen jacket separation on non-bonded bullets but that was also a factor with every single handgun round that was used, .40, .45, .357 Sig. Im not sure why the myth of 9mm bouncing off windshields continues on in the age of the internet but here we are. Modern pistol ammunition has made all the calibers suck about the same. There is no real advantage one pistol caliber has over another as far as 9mm vs 45 they both suck equally well now days.  Can Your Car Windows Protect You From Bullets? - Ballistic High-Speed |
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Posted: 9/18/2023 7:30:04 AM EST
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MK318: I’ve been through a few classes where we fired through side windows with tempered glass as well as windshields. I’ve never had or seen a 9mm not pen either. I’ve seen jacket separation on non-bonded bullets but that was also a factor with every single handgun round that was used, .40, .45, .357 Sig. Im not sure why the myth of 9mm bouncing off windshields continues on in the age of the internet but here we are. Modern pistol ammunition has made all the calibers suck about the same. There is no real advantage one pistol caliber has over another as far as 9mm vs 45 they both suck equally well now days.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tt7fKEh1HNQQuote HistoryOriginally Posted By MK318: Originally Posted By Dino11: I have multiples of different calibers in the 1911 platform, but not one single 9mm. I have several .45ACP, a couple 10mm, and a single .40S&W and a 38 super. Now that I think of it I don't even own a single 9mm in anything. The caliber just never appealed to me. Seems like a wimpy round, even though I know it has a very loyal following. A very good friend of mine is the Armorer for the US Marshall's out of Cleveland, Ohio. He has done very extensive testing of several different fire arms. I have seen US Marshall video of 9mm bouncing off of car windshields, were as .40S&W would penetrate every round. 9mm would take multiple hits in the same area to penetrate. Their is just not enough mass to do the job with a significant success rate. Not that it would not penetrate on the first hit every single time, but enough failures to warrant skepticism. The one advantage of 9mm that leads to it's success is cost, but as a reloader the cost is a mute point compared to loading other rounds. 10mm being my favorite 1911 round since I reload for it to true spec 10mm. I hit steel plates at 200 yards with 10mm HST@1200FPS on a regular basis, try that with 9mm and make that plate thump. I think that some of the 9mm hype is trumped up due to it's popularity to the cheap and weak wrist-ed shooters, but advancement in the round has come a long ways the past decade. A torso hit with a .45ACP compared to a torso hit with 9mm is two different animals, the .45 is gonna knock you on your ass and put big gaping hole in you. Like getting hit with a small boulder to getting hit with a small rock. Stick your thumb in that hole to slow the bleeding, definitely more lethal. I’ve been through a few classes where we fired through side windows with tempered glass as well as windshields. I’ve never had or seen a 9mm not pen either. I’ve seen jacket separation on non-bonded bullets but that was also a factor with every single handgun round that was used, .40, .45, .357 Sig. Im not sure why the myth of 9mm bouncing off windshields continues on in the age of the internet but here we are. Modern pistol ammunition has made all the calibers suck about the same. There is no real advantage one pistol caliber has over another as far as 9mm vs 45 they both suck equally well now days. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tt7fKEh1HNQLol no. The Internet has pushed the 9mm is the same as the 45 as well. That myth needs to die. Modern 9mm jhp is better and I don't really feel under gunned with it but the .45 is still more effective. The reason departments a switching is due to cost. |
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Posted: 9/18/2023 8:58:31 AM EST
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 03RN: Lol no. The Internet has pushed the 9mm is the same as the 45 as well. That myth needs to die. Modern 9mm jhp is better and I don't really feel under gunned with it but the .45 is still more effective. The reason departments a switching is due to cost. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 03RN: Originally Posted By MK318: Originally Posted By Dino11: I have multiples of different calibers in the 1911 platform, but not one single 9mm. I have several .45ACP, a couple 10mm, and a single .40S&W and a 38 super. Now that I think of it I don't even own a single 9mm in anything. The caliber just never appealed to me. Seems like a wimpy round, even though I know it has a very loyal following. A very good friend of mine is the Armorer for the US Marshall's out of Cleveland, Ohio. He has done very extensive testing of several different fire arms. I have seen US Marshall video of 9mm bouncing off of car windshields, were as .40S&W would penetrate every round. 9mm would take multiple hits in the same area to penetrate. Their is just not enough mass to do the job with a significant success rate. Not that it would not penetrate on the first hit every single time, but enough failures to warrant skepticism. The one advantage of 9mm that leads to it's success is cost, but as a reloader the cost is a mute point compared to loading other rounds. 10mm being my favorite 1911 round since I reload for it to true spec 10mm. I hit steel plates at 200 yards with 10mm HST@1200FPS on a regular basis, try that with 9mm and make that plate thump. I think that some of the 9mm hype is trumped up due to it's popularity to the cheap and weak wrist-ed shooters, but advancement in the round has come a long ways the past decade. A torso hit with a .45ACP compared to a torso hit with 9mm is two different animals, the .45 is gonna knock you on your ass and put big gaping hole in you. Like getting hit with a small boulder to getting hit with a small rock. Stick your thumb in that hole to slow the bleeding, definitely more lethal. I’ve been through a few classes where we fired through side windows with tempered glass as well as windshields. I’ve never had or seen a 9mm not pen either. I’ve seen jacket separation on non-bonded bullets but that was also a factor with every single handgun round that was used, .40, .45, .357 Sig. Im not sure why the myth of 9mm bouncing off windshields continues on in the age of the internet but here we are. Modern pistol ammunition has made all the calibers suck about the same. There is no real advantage one pistol caliber has over another as far as 9mm vs 45 they both suck equally well now days. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tt7fKEh1HNQLol no. The Internet has pushed the 9mm is the same as the 45 as well. That myth needs to die. Modern 9mm jhp is better and I don't really feel under gunned with it but the .45 is still more effective. The reason departments a switching is due to cost. .45 is marginally better under very limited circumstances. For the most part .45 and 9mm perform very close. The extra recoil, lower capacity and extra cost isn’t worth that tiny bit of extra mass. Bigger doesn’t always equal better.  Attached File Attached File |
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Posted: 9/18/2023 11:52:46 AM EST
[#46]
You never see the 3 guys who carry .50 GI jump into these conversations.
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Posted: 9/18/2023 11:59:14 AM EST
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By backbencher: You never see the 3 guys who carry .50 GI jump into these conversations. I chuckled |
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Posted: 9/18/2023 12:08:54 PM EST
[#48]
I am sort of a old fashioned guy .
I bought my first 1911 in the late 70s and have had several over the years--all 45acp. Shot a couple of 9s over the years but never felt a real need for myself. In CT we are limited to 10 rounds so I figure it might as well be 45. I reload so cost of ammo doesn't play into it for me. Most of what I shoot are lighter target rounds but also have the full power stuff if need be. I have several Glocks and a Sig if I feel the need to shoot 9mm. Just feels kind of dirty to buy a 1911 in anything but 45acp. You guys do it your way , I am fine with that but I will do 1911s my old fashioned way . |
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Posted: 9/18/2023 2:29:09 PM EST
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Packman: Stock G19 or modified? Both where stock. |
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Posted: 9/18/2023 3:03:07 PM EST
[Last Edit: 03RN]
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MK318: .45 is marginally better under very limited circumstances. For the most part .45 and 9mm perform very close. The extra recoil, lower capacity and extra cost isn’t worth that tiny bit of extra mass. Bigger doesn’t always equal better. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/557335/IMG_3102_jpeg-2958117.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/557335/IMG_3106_png-2958121.JPG Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MK318: Originally Posted By 03RN: Originally Posted By MK318: Originally Posted By Dino11: I have multiples of different calibers in the 1911 platform, but not one single 9mm. I have several .45ACP, a couple 10mm, and a single .40S&W and a 38 super. Now that I think of it I don't even own a single 9mm in anything. The caliber just never appealed to me. Seems like a wimpy round, even though I know it has a very loyal following. A very good friend of mine is the Armorer for the US Marshall's out of Cleveland, Ohio. He has done very extensive testing of several different fire arms. I have seen US Marshall video of 9mm bouncing off of car windshields, were as .40S&W would penetrate every round. 9mm would take multiple hits in the same area to penetrate. Their is just not enough mass to do the job with a significant success rate. Not that it would not penetrate on the first hit every single time, but enough failures to warrant skepticism. The one advantage of 9mm that leads to it's success is cost, but as a reloader the cost is a mute point compared to loading other rounds. 10mm being my favorite 1911 round since I reload for it to true spec 10mm. I hit steel plates at 200 yards with 10mm HST@1200FPS on a regular basis, try that with 9mm and make that plate thump. I think that some of the 9mm hype is trumped up due to it's popularity to the cheap and weak wrist-ed shooters, but advancement in the round has come a long ways the past decade. A torso hit with a .45ACP compared to a torso hit with 9mm is two different animals, the .45 is gonna knock you on your ass and put big gaping hole in you. Like getting hit with a small boulder to getting hit with a small rock. Stick your thumb in that hole to slow the bleeding, definitely more lethal. I’ve been through a few classes where we fired through side windows with tempered glass as well as windshields. I’ve never had or seen a 9mm not pen either. I’ve seen jacket separation on non-bonded bullets but that was also a factor with every single handgun round that was used, .40, .45, .357 Sig. Im not sure why the myth of 9mm bouncing off windshields continues on in the age of the internet but here we are. Modern pistol ammunition has made all the calibers suck about the same. There is no real advantage one pistol caliber has over another as far as 9mm vs 45 they both suck equally well now days. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tt7fKEh1HNQLol no. The Internet has pushed the 9mm is the same as the 45 as well. That myth needs to die. Modern 9mm jhp is better and I don't really feel under gunned with it but the .45 is still more effective. The reason departments a switching is due to cost. .45 is marginally better under very limited circumstances. For the most part .45 and 9mm perform very close. The extra recoil, lower capacity and extra cost isn’t worth that tiny bit of extra mass. Bigger doesn’t always equal better. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/557335/IMG_3102_jpeg-2958117.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/557335/IMG_3106_png-2958121.JPG Posted expanded diameters only tells part of the story. I stopped culling deer with a 9mm where I won't hesitate to hunt deer with a .45 Eta, I find it amusing that you initially said they were equal then you say the .45 is marginally better. |
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