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1/22/2020 12:12:56 PM
Posted: 10/6/2007 8:58:43 PM EST
I was reading a post at another forum and got worried about carring my 1911.
The OP on the forum stated that in a drill that he forgot to disengage the safety on his 1911 during a high stress training exercise.

I have aways carried a Glock as a CCW and work but lately i have been carring my 1911, I have trained with it alot but it is still in my head now what if i forgot in a SHTF situation. would i draw and pull the trigger or would i remember the safety. I know in high stress situations your fine motor skills are shit.

I have put alot of training and lead down range with my 1911 but the point is there is nothing that can prepare for a SHTF. you can practice under stress but nothing compared to you accually fighting for your life or familys.

Thinking i will rethink my CCW. back to a glock for awhile til i forget about reading that post
Link Posted: 10/6/2007 9:02:48 PM EST
Well it has been said millions of times "1911's are for people who like to shoot guns, Glocks are for people who have to shoot guns" IMHO in a CCW situation, you will have to shoot a gun....
Link Posted: 10/7/2007 12:57:40 AM EST
If you can't remember a safety then how do you remember a thumbreak or retention latch on a duty holster.
Link Posted: 10/7/2007 1:03:33 AM EST

Originally Posted By TommyBrown:
If you can't remember a safety then how do you remember a thumbreak or retention latch on a duty holster.


Or better yet, align sights, smoothly press the trigger or apply thought to any other tactical considerations.


Personally, I think anyone that can't handle a manual safety on a gun, cant handle using a gun in a life and death situation.



Dry practice a lot with an unloaded gun if its that big of a concern.
Link Posted: 10/7/2007 1:07:27 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/7/2007 1:09:06 AM EST by wetidlerjr]

Originally Posted By TommyBrown:
If you can't remember a safety then how do you remember a thumbreak or retention latch on a duty holster.



Originally Posted By Lumpy196:Or better yet, align sights, smoothly press the trigger or apply thought to any other tactical considerations.
Personally, I think anyone that can't handle a manual safety on a gun, cant handle using a gun in a life and death situation.
Dry practice a lot with an unloaded gun if its that big of a concern.


Exactly ! Do you remember to load the Glock ? Do you remember to put it in your holster ?

Paranoia strikes deep
Into your heart it will creep
It starts when you're always afraid
Step out of line, the Man comes, and take you away.
-For What It's Worth (Stop, Hey What's That Sound)
Buffalo Springfield. 1967

Link Posted: 10/7/2007 2:48:16 AM EST

the point is there is nothing that can prepare for a SHTF


Wrong. Train to the point of muscle memory; that will prepare you for SHTF. You can get to the point where you draw and disengage the safety without even thinking about it. Takes some time, but it's not that bad...
It can even be practice at home, with drawing an empty gun on safe...
Ultimately it's your call though...

(M16s have a safety too, do you think well trained troops forget to disengage it?)
Link Posted: 10/7/2007 3:07:04 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/7/2007 3:11:46 AM EST by BadgeBunny]

Originally Posted By RolandofGilead:

the point is there is nothing that can prepare for a SHTF


Wrong. Train to the point of muscle memory; that will prepare you for SHTF. You can get to the point where you draw and disengage the safety without even thinking about it. Takes some time, but it's not that bad...
It can even be practice at home, with drawing an empty gun on safe...
Ultimately it's your call though...

(M16s have a safety too, do you think well trained troops forget to disengage it?)


I agree wholeheartedly with this. I have several guns. The two I carry most are a Colt Gold Cup and a Glock 26. I shoot them both a lot. The two guns feel differently in my hands and I do not have to look anymore to see which gun I have. The feel of the grip tells my mind what I have to do. It is not even a conscious effort anymore.

Not long after I started shooting I had occasion to pull my weapon on a man who was obviously intent on no good. The thing that struck me after the whole situation was over and I was discussing it with my husband was that had I only received the training provided in my conceal carry class I would have most likely shot the dumb SOB. Not because he really needed shooting (he did everything I asked of him after I drew my gun) but because I would not have REALLY known how to handle myself.

Get some training, if at all possible find someplace that uses stress inducing techniques. At the very least, find an IPSC or IDPA match and try shooting competitively once or twice. A lot of people don't think competitive shooting is good training, but I think that anything that teaches you to handle a fire arm safely under stress can't be a completely bad experience. And it is fun. You will meet a lot of great people there.

There is no reason to not being proficient with EVERY fire arm you own. The reality is, however unlikely, your life my depend on it someday.

ETA: The other thing that surprised me about my encounter was that my trigger finger never actually got on the trigger. It stayed up on the side of the gun where I was taught to put it until I am ready to shoot. That was a product of training, not instinct, because my instinct was to put my finger on the trigger and shoot the guy! Same deal applies to the disengagement of a safety.
Link Posted: 10/7/2007 3:15:58 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/7/2007 3:18:05 AM EST
Smart lady
Link Posted: 10/7/2007 3:28:39 AM EST

Originally Posted By Lumpy196:
Smart lady

Yes, great post Badgebunny.
Link Posted: 10/7/2007 3:34:28 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/7/2007 3:38:55 AM EST by BadgeBunny]

Originally Posted By RolandofGilead:

Originally Posted By Lumpy196:
Smart lady

Yes, great post Badgebunny.


Thanks guys!! You can get all the gory details of my encounter in the Women's Forum in the "it's here, it's here" thead. I would like to tell you I was "oh, so professional" but unfortunately that is not the case.

If any encounter of this nature can be considered "good" this one was because I learned a lot about what I DON'T know.

ETA: Ahh, here, I just copied it so you don't have to hunt. In all honesty, it is a fairly embarrassing story because it points glaringly soo many of my shortcomings. That said, if it keeps someone else from being hurt or worse, my pink cheeks are a small price to pay.

Several lessons learned all at once, the hard way.

Take one convertible, a beautiful summer night (after 10 pm) and a post office box in the downtown area. Mix in one dumbass redhead, two homeless guys and a red light.

I think the only thing that saved me was the fact that they thought the sound of me pulling my gun from the holster was me racking the slide. And let me be the first to admit if I hadn't been fiddling with the radio I would have seen them coming long before they got there. The intersection was very well lit.

What lessons did I take from this:

1. My husband is right. I am a dumbass. There are people out there who will fuck with you just because you look easy. Don't look easy.

2. While a gun with no round in the chamber, holstered and under the seat is better than no gun at all, this is only true if the bad guys do not call your bluff.

3. Pay attention to what is going on around you. The song on the radio that you cannot stand will not kill you.

4. Don't go down by the Jesus House at 10 pm with the top down and the radio blaring. It is just not smart. Just come home after work. The mail will be there in the morning.

This is why my gun (Colt Gold Cup) is unholstered, with a round chambered, safety on, laying on the seat next to me under a sweater, jacket, newspaper, etc.

ETA: Let me just say, adrenaline is a hell of a rush!!
Link Posted: 10/7/2007 9:06:00 AM EST
I have drawn my glock twice in high stress situation when i worked at the SO. When i qualified with the 1911 as a offduty, i never forgot the safety but last nite i doubted my self in the ablity to remember it.

Link Posted: 10/7/2007 9:51:59 AM EST
If it's any consolation, my two go-to pistols are a G19 and an SA 1911.

Keeping similar grips on both guns (thumbs forward/over safety) helps to automatically
get them ready to fire - external lever or not.

Perfect practice makes perfect.
Link Posted: 10/7/2007 11:51:08 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/7/2007 12:22:23 PM EST
I know but the 1911 is so much easier to carry, went to the range a lil bit ago and remembered it every time in drills. It is nice to still have friends with access to the SO range and the turning targets. my mind feels better in carrying it now. I was wondering if anyone else had thought about it before.
Link Posted: 10/7/2007 12:28:29 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/7/2007 12:29:33 PM EST by 50-140]

You know that;s funny to me.

I've carried a 1911 in various flavors for over 15 years. I tried a glock, couldn't get used to idea of
not having an exernal safety.

Went back to my Colt commander, everything is happy again.

The secret key to getting used to weapon manipulation.........

Training, training, and more training
Link Posted: 10/7/2007 4:09:09 PM EST
I have been in that situation already, and I can tell you that it works fine for me. Maybe you or your training is different. Safeties have been on substantially all of our military weapons. A lack of manual safeties have been on substantially all of our police weapons. None of that amounts to a hill of beans for the lone guy who doesn't have air support or the Code 3 cavalry to back him up. Different styles, different tactics, and all pretty much irrelevant for MY CCW uses.

Everybody covered the issue pretty well about training, muscle memory, etc. above. I will merely add that the weapon with the manual safety is in fact safer, despite the fact that there are many who would hotly (and wrongly) contest that assertion of mine.

I have carried concealed regularly for 5 years now. I have been in one situation in 5 years where I needed to present (much less present and fire). I have been in thousands of situations where I had to load/unload, and holster/unholster a loaded weapon. Based on the odds, my state of mind is as significant a hazard as a potential threat. If I demonstrate 99.2% safety out of 1,000 presentations (the .8% due to fatigue, distraction, negligence, etc) I have 8 dangerous, or potentially fatal situations on my hands. I can do 1,000 presentations with ease in a year. And to every asshat who says "this is my safety" pointing to finger and believes they are 100%.... I challenge them to go to school and learn to make 1911s. QC on production pistols being what it is... we can use a "perfect being" to make a "perfect" weapon

Manual safeties don't make a safer shooter. But they do aid in scenarios where an otherwise safe shooter may through a once in a lifetime (or 8 in a year) event that would othewise change the dynamics dramatically.
Link Posted: 10/7/2007 4:17:46 PM EST
Then I guess the question would remain, are people practice-drawing their 1911
and automatically disengaging the safety - finger on trigger or not.
Link Posted: 10/7/2007 4:37:44 PM EST
Practice ! Practice ! Practice !

And then Practice some more.

You won't need to think about it.
Link Posted: 10/7/2007 5:10:17 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/7/2007 5:19:23 PM EST by MadMex]

Originally Posted By fergie0660:
I was reading a post at another forum and got worried about carring my 1911.
The OP on the forum stated that in a drill that he forgot to disengage the safety on his 1911 during a high stress training exercise.

I have aways carried a Glock as a CCW and work but lately i have been carring my 1911, I have trained with it alot but it is still in my head now what if i forgot in a SHTF situation. would i draw and pull the trigger or would i remember the safety. I know in high stress situations your fine motor skills are shit.

I have put alot of training and lead down range with my 1911 but the point is there is nothing that can prepare for a SHTF. you can practice under stress but nothing compared to you accually fighting for your life or familys.

Thinking i will rethink my CCW. back to a glock for awhile til i forget about reading that post

Bored Glock troll.

Hopefully you remember to take your finger off the trigger before you re-holster.
Link Posted: 10/8/2007 9:28:26 AM EST

Originally Posted By MadMex:

Originally Posted By fergie0660:
I was reading a post at another forum and got worried about carring my 1911.
The OP on the forum stated that in a drill that he forgot to disengage the safety on his 1911 during a high stress training exercise.

I have aways carried a Glock as a CCW and work but lately i have been carring my 1911, I have trained with it alot but it is still in my head now what if i forgot in a SHTF situation. would i draw and pull the trigger or would i remember the safety. I know in high stress situations your fine motor skills are shit.

I have put alot of training and lead down range with my 1911 but the point is there is nothing that can prepare for a SHTF. you can practice under stress but nothing compared to you accually fighting for your life or familys.

Thinking i will rethink my CCW. back to a glock for awhile til i forget about reading that post

Bored Glock troll.

Hopefully you remember to take your finger off the trigger before you re-holster.


Ouch!! That's gonna leave a mark.

Dang, you guys!! I have both (Glocks and 1911s). I carry both. I train with both. I have caught myself releasing the "safety" on my Glock, but I don't recall forgetting the safety on my 1911 except when it was a brand new deal to me. (Glock was my first gun.) If you are gripping your gun properly your thumb is up where it belongs regardless of the gun you have and the downward motion to release the safety is a natural movement.

This is a little like caliber and shot placement to me. Big ole' bullet is good. Bigger ole' bullet is better, but not if you can't hit your target where you want to.

Link Posted: 10/8/2007 2:59:59 PM EST

Originally Posted By GhostRing:
Then I guess the question would remain, are people practice-drawing their 1911
and automatically disengaging the safety - finger on trigger or not.


I don't understand the question. When you grip the gun, and you're not shooting, your finger should be on that little nub (at least that's where I put it) on the slide stop pin. That in no way affects where my thumb goes. Right on top. If you're presenting, I would your safety would come off. Or you could not press down if you think it not necessary.

Maybe that's what you mean. Is it possible to leave it on while presenting? Or what is the best way maybe? Yeah, I suppose that is a viable question. I always practice taking it off with my trigger finger on the nub. Maybe that is wrong.
Link Posted: 10/8/2007 4:01:57 PM EST
I guess it was a bit confusing...


I always practice taking it off with my trigger finger on the nub. Maybe that is wrong.


That is what I meant. Under relevant conditions, and the 1911 is out of the holster, the safety is instantly off.
Then basically treat it like a Glock.
Link Posted: 10/8/2007 5:45:08 PM EST
Yeah, but at least you can flip the safety back on to holster, in case it gets hung up on anything. That has always given me comfort. I don't discount Glocks as a viable and really good weapon. But for my preferences I like an exposed hammer and a safety. Just my own personal preferences. What gets me is these Glock guys that act like you're stupid for carrying anything else and a Glock is perfection. Phhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!
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