Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Site Notices
9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 12/17/2005 11:05:59 AM EDT
I know my Browning Buckmark mags have room for a lot more ammo.

Why aren't 14 or 15rd mags available for guns like the Ruger and Browning 22lr's?
Link Posted: 12/17/2005 11:30:53 AM EDT
because we are used to 10 rounders and they would have to change their tooling to make new mags.
Link Posted: 12/17/2005 11:34:18 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TheRedHorseman:
because we are used to 10 rounders and they would have to change their tooling to make new mags.



The tooling for the followers can't be that involved PLUS they would get new sales from the higher capacity mags.
Link Posted: 12/17/2005 11:57:45 AM EDT
well then Email them and ask, or give mec-gar a ring and see what sort of madness they can whip up
Link Posted: 12/17/2005 12:54:59 PM EDT
i figured the new mosquito would be hi-cap atleast.
Link Posted: 12/17/2005 7:33:55 PM EDT
Conventional wisdom is that making a reliable extra capacity .22 single column mag by changing only the follower and length of the body is not easy , and would just cost too much
to be commercially profitable.

While some 15 and 20 round straight mags have been made for rimfire rifles , they were mostly
"crap"

Because of the large rim on .22 rounds , a CURVED mag is easy and cheap to make.
This would not be possible to use in most semi pistols however.

I suppose someone could design an "Uber" straight mag , with a full length internal guide
for the rounds , but how much would you pay for it?
Link Posted: 12/17/2005 7:42:38 PM EDT
I have been eying my P22 mags for a while. I think they would be easy to add a few rounds capacity. My only concern is if the springs have enough "legs" to push the follower up the extra 1/2" or so.

Bob
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 4:34:10 AM EDT
I think ramline made 12 rounders for the MKII before the ban. I haven't seen one for years and never owned one. Someone that owns one could chime in about the reliability. I suspect there was a reason they only made it a 12rd mag. Maybe ramline needs a call.
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 6:15:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/18/2005 6:16:34 AM EDT by anothergene]
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 4:14:30 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/19/2005 4:19:28 AM EDT by BLY]
The rim is the limiting factor.
Yes, they could probably make modifications/redesign their magazines to accept 15-20 rounds in a straight mag but, to them it just isn't worth the cost/effort.

What is possible however, is a single stack magazine in the shape of a "U" to allow twice the current capacity (giving you approximately 20 rounds). It would be similar to the teardrop mag for the Ruger 10/22 as to how it works but, it would look much more like a ordinary magazine.

A MS paint draw up for those of you who don't know what magazine I'm talking about:

The red one is the follower.

Now look at your kids airsoft pistol (namely the Sig P230 clear), it's has the basic idea.

I believe the reason that the teardrop mag is a teardrop and not perfectly vertical on both sides is to improve the reliability. You don't want the bend (bottom of "U") to be too tight because you don't want the ammo to bind in the bend and you would want a strong spring and well designed follower... The follower should be like a rolling pin and connected to the spring, not just sitting on top of it. Now that you have the follower round and rolling, you will have issues of mis-feeding when you come to the last round - in order to get past this, you will need to make a section of the follower have a groove recessed into it (the rearmost portion of the follower)... this recessed portion will need to be able to follow the .22 shells lead and rotate accordingly, not freely like the rest of the follower.

It can be done and you would have your standard capacity magazine. This obviously would not work for current pistols so, a manufacturer would have to design a new pistol around this magazine.
...Everybody loves new .22's - Just look at the Rhineland R22 - which makes this a perfectly acceptable option for a manufacturer to take hold of. I would just ask that they not make another Beretta Neos or other odd looking pistol. Keep it simple, and maybe even traditional.

Look at Ruger and their factory magazine... Basically a revolver, evolved into an auto. It was innovative and thought up by creative minds. Reliable as hell too.
If only Bill wasn't a wuss, we might have even seen this design come from him.
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 10:18:38 AM EDT
FWIW, I used to have a Magnum Research Mountain Eagle. It was basically a plastic version of a Mark II. It had 15 and 20 round double-stack mags. I don't remember any feeding problems.

I ended up trading it for something else because I liked the feel of my MKII better.
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 12:11:11 PM EDT
You can cut the follower down in the P22's to get 13+1. I'll have to machine an aluminum follower to get 15+1.
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 12:34:08 PM EDT
Others have already hit on the key here. When using a fairly straight single-stack magazine, reliability starts to suffer markedly when you get past the 10-round mark.
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 12:36:40 PM EDT
10 rounds *is* standard capacity.


Link Posted: 12/20/2005 12:39:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By arowneragain:
10 rounds *is* standard capacity.



I thought some of the older Ruger's had factory mags with higher capacity.

If they didn't, then I was misinformed -- and therefore change my query to why don't makers make higher capacity magazines for 22lr pistols?

To which it appears the answer is:

...due to rim size the mags will not work properly past 10rds.
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 1:04:34 PM EDT
Grendel used to make a 30-round, triple-stack magazine .22WMRF magazines which fit flush in a comfortably sized grip. I have both the pistol and carbine versions and have found them every bit as reliable as high-cap 10/22 mags over the years...
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 6:03:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BLY:
The rim is the limiting factor.
Yes, they could probably make modifications/redesign their magazines to accept 15-20 rounds in a straight mag but, to them it just isn't worth the cost/effort.

What is possible however, is a single stack magazine in the shape of a "U" to allow twice the current capacity (giving you approximately 20 rounds). It would be similar to the teardrop mag for the Ruger 10/22 as to how it works but, it would look much more like a ordinary magazine.

A MS paint draw up for those of you who don't know what magazine I'm talking about:
img.photobucket.com/albums/v443/ylbevets/Magazine.jpg
The red one is the follower.

Now look at your kids airsoft pistol (namely the Sig P230 clear), it's has the basic idea.

I believe the reason that the teardrop mag is a teardrop and not perfectly vertical on both sides is to improve the reliability. You don't want the bend (bottom of "U") to be too tight because you don't want the ammo to bind in the bend and you would want a strong spring and well designed follower... The follower should be like a rolling pin and connected to the spring, not just sitting on top of it. Now that you have the follower round and rolling, you will have issues of mis-feeding when you come to the last round - in order to get past this, you will need to make a section of the follower have a groove recessed into it (the rearmost portion of the follower)... this recessed portion will need to be able to follow the .22 shells lead and rotate accordingly, not freely like the rest of the follower.

It can be done and you would have your standard capacity magazine. This obviously would not work for current pistols so, a manufacturer would have to design a new pistol around this magazine.
...Everybody loves new .22's - Just look at the Rhineland R22 - which makes this a perfectly acceptable option for a manufacturer to take hold of. I would just ask that they not make another Beretta Neos or other odd looking pistol. Keep it simple, and maybe even traditional.

Look at Ruger and their factory magazine... Basically a revolver, evolved into an auto. It was innovative and thought up by creative minds. Reliable as hell too.
If only Bill wasn't a wuss, we might have even seen this design come from him.



Good concept... Unfortunately, it will be troublsome in real life. Try this: Tape the number of .22 cartridges you want to fit in your "U" shaped mag using a piece of tape on each side of the stack of cartridges. Remember under spring pressure only the bullet noses and the rims will be touching each other. The resulting stack will look like a banana. Now bend it into the shape you propose keeping the rims and noses touching. As you go around the bottom of your "U" shape you will start to form a helix. It may, in theory, work but would be just about impossible to tool.

Kent
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 11:02:32 PM EDT
if you let the rims double stack and keep the bullets in strait line you would be able to get higher capacity and not have to deal with as much of a curve and an easier to make magazine. I am not sure if the slide would be able to pick the round out of the magazine if the rim is off center.
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 11:22:27 PM EDT
I think at this point it's merely a cost saving manuever to standardize on 10rd mags. I had a S&W 422 back in the day that held 12, so I'm sure most of the single stack mags out there could have the follower slightly redesigned to be shorter, and maybe add an extra couple of coils on the spring, and this would allow a few extra rounds in the magazine.

It seems for at least the popular makes out there (Buckmark and Ruger MK) it would be worthwhile for somebody like MecGar to offer something like this.

Link Posted: 12/21/2005 4:41:28 AM EDT
Here's an angle I hadn't considered until now... Why?... Why is more than 10 rounds in a .22 even an issue. No one in thier right mind uses one for combat and I've never seen a rabbit for a long enough period of time to dump an entire 10 round mag at it. 99% (W.A.G. statisics) of the time the .22 is used for target shooting or plinking. Most target games reguire 10 or less rounds and if you are plinking buy an extra mag.

Kent
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 5:36:01 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/21/2005 5:36:51 AM EDT by HardShell]

Originally Posted By Green_Canoe:
Here's an angle I hadn't considered until now... Why?...



Probably because some people just love to burn up ammo (mag dumps, no aiming, just shooting for fun).

It ain't my bag, but both of my younger B-I-Ls love to do just that. They both hunt, but they aren't "gun guys" and they aren't around EBRs and such unless they're visiting me. When I take them over to the range, it's a lot cheaper (and almost as much fun for them) for me to hand them each a 10/22, a TEC-22, and a bagfull of high-cap 10/22 mags than to give them a couple of ARs/AKs and a bunch of mags & drums full of centerfire ammo.

Like I said, I don't like to burn up ammo like that (wastefu IMO), but if I did I could see wanting to do it with .22s. YMMV.
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 5:44:27 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SHIVAN:

Originally Posted By arowneragain:
10 rounds *is* standard capacity.



I thought some of the older Ruger's had factory mags with higher capacity.

If they didn't, then I was misinformed -- and therefore change my query to why don't makers make higher capacity magazines for 22lr pistols?

To which it appears the answer is:

...due to rim size the mags will not work properly past 10rds.



The ruger Mark I pistol (forerunner of the MKII) had a 9 round factory magazine.

Link Posted: 12/21/2005 6:11:18 AM EDT
Ciener conversions have 15 round magazines.
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 3:30:27 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 6:09:31 PM EDT
I thought some companies used to make 12 round mags for the Browning Buckmarks?
Top Top