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Posted: 5/20/2003 5:45:38 PM EDT
Below you will find correspondences between me and Wilson Combat. I believe that Wilson Combat is untrustworthy as a company and I will never purchase any of their products. I am also currently selling anything I own that was manufactured by them.

Jon Lubecky

AdTechArms
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 5:46:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/20/2003 5:49:36 PM EDT by ADTECHARMS]
From: Jonathan M. Lubecky

To: Mr. Bill Wilson

Re: Pistol Purchase

Dear Sir,

My name is Jonathan M. Lubecky. I bought my pistol on August 10, 2002 from the Hyatt gun shop in Charlotte, NC. I have just filled out the product survey enclosed with my pistol when I bought it. When I first purchased the pistol, I was rather upset with Wilson Combat at the time and decided to be fair I put it away and recently found it and filled it out. The reason I was upset is the same reason I am writing this letter. I hold the firm belief that unless someone speaks up about the problem, whatever it may be it will not get fixed.
I got my NC concealed weapons permit about three years ago. I started carrying a Springfield Compact (with three Wilson Mags) and added a Wilson Ambidextrous safety. After some time I decided that if I was going to carry a gun for self defense, I wanted to carry a weapon that had two main qualifications, exceptional accuracy, and above all else that when I pulled the trigger, regardless of the situation the gun went “BANG”. I did a lot of research. I looked at Les Baer, Ed Brown, STI, Springfield (Professional Model), and Wilson. I chose a Wilson CQB with a Magazine Chute and Ambidextrous safety, the color I wanted was Black and Green. I went to my local dealer and ordered one. I then wrote a check for the full amount. When my dealer placed the order with your company I was there and listening on speaker phone. The time to delivery was quoted as 8-10 weeks. This was no big deal as I was expecting to wait for a custom pistol. Ten weeks passed by and I had not received my pistol. I called Wilson (I can not remember who I spoke with) and asked about my order. I was told it would be another six months, because you were having problems with your foundry, and that the problem had existed for some time. I then started calling around and found a pistol similar to what I ordered in Charlotte (a 4 hour drive) and cancelled my order with my usual dealer and went down to Charlotte and bought my pistol (Serial number WCSF0035). The only difference was the pistol in Charlotte was a “Light Rail” model (which is more expensive) and I had ordered a regular model.
I almost did not buy a Wilson Pistol because of what happened. I felt that I had been lied to. I still feel this way. You make an excellent product that I am satisfied with, but the problem with the production existed when I placed my order and I should have been given a realistic timeframe to expect delivery. Had I been told 6-7 months I would have waited. It was a very difficult decision for me to still buy a Wilson Product. I was seriously considering canceling my order and buying an STI or Les Baer. I was debating whether I could trust my life to a company that knowingly gave false information when I placed my order! One of the big reason’s I chose to buy from Wilson Combat was your reputation for customer service. In my case I believe it was severely lacking. This is the reason I have not recommended Wilson Combat to anyone I know, nor have I recommended against buying from Wilson Combat. Now six months later I am still questioning my decision, although I have had zero problems since I bought the gun.
I have my own a fledgling R&D company and I am a Transportation Logistics Mgr for a major Electric Company during the day. If I give my customer a delivery time, I deliver. This may be why this is such a big deal to me. I fully realize that a custom pistol takes time. Had this been an additional week I would not be upset. Had someone from Wilson’s called me or my dealer and explained the situation before the delivery date approached I would not be upset. The impression I was given was that “we have your money, if you want one of our pistols you are just going to have to deal with it.” I am going to say up front that I talked directly to your company not through my dealer. I will say that I may buy parts from your company as well as magazines. I have also had my eye on the 1911 Bowie that your son makes to match my pistol. I do however have serious reservations about spending another $2000 dollars on a pistol from Wilson Combat. I have lost confidence in Wilson Combat and their word. I do not know if I am the only person this has happened to, hopefully for your company I am, but as I am sure you know for every one person like me who takes the time to sit down and write a letter there are many, many more that just walk away and say nothing. You see where I stand and what happened. If you wish to discuss this I can be reached after 18:00 (EST) at (xxx) xxx-xxxx.


Sincerely,


Jonathan M. Lubecky
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 5:48:55 PM EDT
After sending this letter I recieved a call from Mr Hager the General Manager for Wilson Combat. He apologized and said they where having problems with their supplier and I should not have been quoted 8-10 weeks for delivery. He also promised to send 2 (10) round magazines as an apology. After waiting two months for the magazines to arrive I sent the following.
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 5:51:33 PM EDT
From: Jonathan M. Lubecky

To: Mr. Bill Wilson, Mr. Jim Hager

Re: Follow-up to previous letter

Dear Gentleman,

I wrote a letter towards the end of February describing some issues that I found unsettling concerning an order I had placed with Wilson Combat for a 1911 CQB Pistol. Enclosed with this letter you will find a copy of my original letter. The problem that I had was poor customer service. Wilson Combat promised a delivery date for my pistol and then extended it by six months. A few days after sending my original letter I received a call from Jim Hager, who I believe said he was the General Manager. I had a lengthy discussion with Mr. Hager about my concerns. During this call Mr. Hager, as a sign of good faith, offered to send me two Wilson Combat 10 Round Magazines. The date as I write this letter is April 28, 2003 and the magazines have not arrived. This is one further example of a promise made, but not kept. With this simple inaction, whether intentional or not, has reaffirmed my initial suspicion concerning customer service and the word of Wilson Combat.
As a result of this I will be selling my pistol. I use my pistol as a CCW weapon and must trust it with my life. If I can not trust the company who made it, how can I trust this pistol with my life? I will replace it with either an STI or a Les Baer. The unfortunate thing is that since this pistol is used and has the 500 round break in completed, I will never receive what I paid for it, let alone all the accessories I have bought for it that my become useless. I guess that is a lesson learned.
I told Mr. Hager that I had not told anyone about the problems I had when I purchased my pistol. This is still a true statement, although that will change thirty days after I mail this letter. I will be posting this letter, as well as a brief description of my conversation with Mr. Hager on the following websites:
www.ar15.com
www.berettaforum.net
www.1911forum.com
among others
If you wish to respond on these message boards that is fine. My nickname on the boards is AdTechArms. I will also be forwarding the same information to Jack Weigand of the American Pistolsmiths Guild. I believe that I have given your company ample opportunity to correct the problem, and your company has failed. I also believe that any potential customers should know what has happened. One of the main reasons I chose Wilson Combat as a company to build a pistol for me is the statements you make in your catalog. These have proven to be merely advertising with nothing to back them up.
After my conversation with Mr. Hager I had planned on buying a few things from your company. I was going to buy a new barrel for my AR 15 Rifle, one of your son’s 1911 knives, and some other miscellaneous parts. This will not happen. I will also never buy any products your company offers. I will also tell anyone who asks, or who I see considering one of your products not to purchase anything from your company, or they will face dissatisfaction, and possibly as in my case a loss of hard earned dollars.
If you wish to discuss this further I would appreciate you not wasting more of my money by contacting me on my cell phone. If you wish to reply please either send me a letter or contact me via e-mail at Lubecky@alltel.net. I wish you all the luck in your future business, but if all your customers are treated as I was you will need more than luck.


Sincerely,


Jonathan M. Lubecky
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 5:53:01 PM EDT
In response to the last letter Mr Hager sent this message.

Dear Mr. Lubecky,

I have received your letter dated April 28, 2003 and am sorry to hear that you remain unhappy with our customer service. In the letter you mention that you did not receive the (2) 10 round magazines I promised to send to you. I apologize for this; however, the magazines were sent, UPS, the day that we spoke on the phone. We’ve had problems with our automated UPS system in the past, but, when I heard nothing from you I assumed you had received your magazines. Regardless of the cause, I understand your frustration at not receiving what was promised to you. I will be happy to resend the magazines immediately if that is what you would like.

Please let me know how you want this handled. If you want the magazines resent, I will arrange for them to be sent second day today. Then, if you have not received them within that timeframe you can either email me or call our toll free number (1-800-955-4856) and we can address the matter quickly, before it turns into another issue.

Sincerely,

Jim Hager


In this message he states that the magazines were in fact sent out.
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 5:54:47 PM EDT
When I inquired as to the UPS Tracking number, Mr. Hager responded with this:

Mr. Lubecky,

The problems with the automated system that I referred to below caused several days worth of shipments to not be pulled and shipped properly. Specifically, the printer jammed and overwrote some quantity of orders that, to this day, we don’t know. We tried to recreate all the orders and ship them out but, some didn’t get discovered unless/until the customer contacted us and made us aware of the problem. Most of the affected customers were very understanding. Very few were not. I have always believed that all companies experience these problems occasionally and the measure of the company is how well they respond to problems once they occur. We have done our best to respond to all the customers affected by this problem and we will continue to do so as we become aware of any other affected customers.

I have offered an apology and I have offered to ship the magazines second day air. I believe that Wilson Combat has acted responsibly and done everything reasonable to satisfy our customer. If you would like the magazines shipped as noted, please let me know.

Jim Hager


Apparently the magazines did not ship as he stated earlier.

For those keeping count that is the third time I was given false information.
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 5:56:02 PM EDT
This is my final letter to WIlson Combat which has recieved no reply.

Dear Mr. Hager, Mr Wilson, Mr Anderson,

It will not be necessary for you to send the Magazines, as I have decided to sell the pistol. I will also be following through with the other actions described in my letter. I believe your company has a systemic issue with simple honesty. Your Customer Service also seems to be Reactive instead of Proactive. In this e-mail thread you have said both that the magazines were shipped the day we talked, and then when I ask for the tracking number you tell me that it did not ship. Although I will not be a customer in the future, and will be selling everything I currently own from your company, I do not wish for what has happened in my case to happen to anyone else. If you truly lived up to the claims in your catalog of wanting customers to be “EXTREMLY Satisfied” there are a few ways in which I believe my encounter could have been handled better, and would not have led to the unfortunate bad publicity that will occur in the future when I start discussing this situation. The ways I believe this situation could have been handled better are:

1. When I initially called with the delivery date not being met the salesperson could have made the offer of including the two free magazines, or even a t-shirt, hat whatever. It is not that I am after free stuff; it is the simple fact of demonstrating to the customer that your company has made a mistake (especially when it is a first time customer as I was) and that you wish to try and make it right.

2. When you offered to send the magazines as an apology FOLLOW THE ORDER UNTIL IT DELIVERS, then place a call, or write a letter making sure that they were received. If this had been done no second letter would have been sent and your company would not appear dishonest.

3. When you received my second letter, and you realized the magazines were not sent out for whatever reason, at that very moment SEND THE MAGAZINES OUT, not second day air, but next day air immediately. If the issue of the magazines not being shipped was truly a UPS mistake they will work you’re your company to remove or discount the charges to fix the mistake. According to your website shipping guide the difference is $13.56. Is that small amount to quickly correct a mistake on top of a mistake worth these communications and the problems coming to light in a very public way?

4. When you respond to a customer, do not say that the magazines were shipped when they were not. Tell the truth that a jammed printer ate the order and if you follow the above recommendation you could give the Next Day Air tracking number at this time to show that you are proactively trying to correct the situation.

These simple things could have had a large impact on my view of your company, and instead of telling people of a bad experience, I could have told them of a good experience. As you said in your letter “I have always believed that all companies experience these problems occasionally and the measure of the company is how well they respond to problems once they occur.” I agree with this wholeheartedly. Do you honestly believe that you and Wilson Combat have responded to this problem to the best of your ability? I believe I have been more than fair in explaining my position. Had you done the above listed items, I would have come away think quite simply that you mean what you advertise when you say that you wish for your customers to be “EXTREMLY Satisfied” I don’t think I have asked for a lot, as a matter of fact I have not asked for anything except to be treated like a customer that you wish to return and that you value. Rather I have come away thinking that everything in your catalog and on your website is a great advertising campaign and that you care very little for your customers and whether they return or not.


Sincerely,
Jonathan M. Lubecky
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 6:18:33 PM EDT
Johnathan,

I think you've got your drawers in a big wad over a very little thing. "Much ado about nothing", so to speak.

I would have kept my cool and asked for 4 magazines instead of the original 2.

How does the poor "customer service" effect the quality of the pistol. The Wilson .45 CQB I shot was the finest weapon I've ever shot.

JMHO
YMMV
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 6:20:19 PM EDT
Interesting read though it sucks you had to go thru all of that after spending that kind of $$. I will say that your correspondence reads very professional, Jon...Wilson should be happy they weren't putting me thru this nonsense!

Thanks for posting!

Rob
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 6:28:55 PM EDT
And your problem with Wilson is?


Sorry, the gun shop I was working at is a master dealer, and we have a 4-6 month wait for all wilson pistols. Sounds like your beef should be with your local dealer. When ever anyone ordered a wilson from us, I always told them it could be 6 months.

All in all, it might have been handled a little differently, but it sounds to me like they wanted to do the right thing.

Your incident has not changed my opinion of Wilson Combat.

dave
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 6:32:26 PM EDT
Jethead,

It wasn't just the Poor Customer Service, it was the dishonesty that finally drove me to get rid of the weapon. If they can not keep there word how do I know that they built the weapon correctly or that a critical part will not fail at the worst possible moment?

Dave,
I was listening when the order was placed. The call to them for the original order was done on speakerphone so the time quote came from them, not from the dealer.

Jon Lubecky
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 6:34:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By bvmjethead:
Johnathan,

I think you've got your drawers in a big wad over a very little thing. "Much ado about nothing", so to speak.

I would have kept my cool and asked for 4 magazines instead of the original 2.

How does the poor "customer service" effect the quality of the pistol. The Wilson .45 CQB I shot was the finest weapon I've ever shot.

JMHO
YMMV



I think Johnathan responded to your question in his letter. He did not say that it effected the quality.

Nice job Johnathan....
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 6:41:03 PM EDT

"After some time I decided that if I was going to carry a gun for self defense, I wanted to carry a weapon that had two main qualifications, exceptional accuracy, and above all else that when I pulled the trigger, regardless of the situation the gun went “BANG”. I did a lot of research."


I have the same qualifications for any weapon and am sorry to hear about your troubles!

I chose a Kimber Pro CDP for my carry weapon and have yet to have any failure of any sort and spent less than half of the CQB, Ed Brown or a Les Baer.

If I had spent twice as much I would have expected higher expectations although I am not sure any of these pistols would really be any better. Don't get me wrong, one of these days when I can, I will probably have a Les Baer or an Ed Brown Cobra!

With over a 1000 round of all different kinds of ammo and have not had any type of failure so as far as reliability is concerned.

But then your beef isn't with the quality or reliabilty or craftmanship of the Wilson it is with the Company itself!

BigDozer66
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 6:43:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ADTECHARMS:
..... Now six months later I am still questioning my decision, although I have had zero problems since I bought the gun....



So what the hell are you crying about?
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 7:06:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By QCMGR:
So what the hell are you crying about?



Simple, what makes one Custom 1911 different from another, and what was the main reason I bought a Wilson over the rest.

Quality, Accuracy, Service

Most Custom 1911's are as accurate,

Most Custom 1911's are of the same quality,

The reason I bought a Wilson was the service they advertise so heavily.

They have failed miserably on one of the three. When I pay $2000 of my money I expect for a company to deliver on what they advertise. $2000 is alot of money for me, it may not be for you, but it is for me. I bought this pistol for one purpose and one purpose only, and that was Self-Defense. If I can not trust the company, how can I trust the gun with my life?

A better example would be if you spent your hard earned money on a car, and it was missing the main reason you bought it (whether it be leather seats or a cd player or whatever) would you be happy?

Link Posted: 5/20/2003 7:19:57 PM EDT
Sorry, but this just reminds me of one of my Mothers sayings............."You're just cutting your nose off to spite your face"

Link Posted: 5/20/2003 7:20:36 PM EDT
I think you need a hobby. I have so much going on in my life I don't even have time to send in rebate cards for $100, how on earth do you find the time to write these letters?
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 7:29:33 PM EDT
While I can feel your pain and understand that your standard of trust was busted up...

What happens if STI, Les Baer, Ed Brown, et al shit on you worse? What happens if they have inferior products, or inferior reliability or whatever? It sounds like you honestly caught them on a bad day, each time you called.

Sometimes shit happens...you have made your choicec and voiced your opinion. That is a -1 on an otherwise STELLAR record of likely +Infinity...

At the end of the day they delivered on 99% of their promise...IMHO.

Thanks for relating well written, well thought out letters.

Ed
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 7:33:53 PM EDT
I agree with you completely. They are not to be trusted.

So, as a favor to you, I'll take that Wilson off your hands for $500.

It's the least I can do.

CHRIS
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 7:37:15 PM EDT
Your beef is that you waited longer than quoted. Guess what, in the world of custom and semi-custom 1911's you pay your money and wait. That's not good, but just reality.

Yeah, it sucks that WC couldn't deliver on time. But you ended up getting one of the finest combat pistols on the planet. Heck, you even purchased one after the delay.

Now I think you're just picking at little shit, quite frankly, to justify the fact that you're still irritated over WC.

I personally know that WC stands by their products. I had some reliability problems with my 1996A2. Instead of blaming me, or the ammo, after discussing the situation with me and looking at the gun they rebuilt it. I said I can't trust this pistol and they put a new bbl and slidestop in it and refinished it in the (then new version of) Armor Tuff. It's been running like a charm since them.

WC customer service has won award for their service (in general customer service, not just firearms related). WC sets the bar in terms of customer service.

Your gun functioned perfectly, and WC was willing to work with you to make you happy (which wasn't necessary, but that is what makes their customer service so outstanding).

If you buy WC mags and have a malf, they'll send you a new mag in exhange for the old one regardless of whether their mag was at fault.

I don't buy it (your gripe, that is). This is a situation that went bad because you made it so.

Too bad you let that pistol go. Bet it was a great shooter. WC is known for extremely reliable pistols that just happen to be extremely accurate.
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 8:23:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ADTECHARMS:
Jethead,

It wasn't just the Poor Customer Service, it was the dishonesty that finally drove me to get rid of the weapon. If they can not keep there word how do I know that they built the weapon correctly or that a critical part will not fail at the worst possible moment?





Hmm... how can you be sure that any pistol will not have a failure at a critical time.

When kimber first came out, their MIM parts had a not so common failure, but people stilled trusted them enough to carry them.
Their Series II pistols have had reliability issues to a small degree, and they are still selling them left and right.

Your arguement above has no relevance to your displeasure, and the charge of dishonesty is absured.
Every time I have dealt with Wilson Combat (not many, since my CQB is well made) I have had no problems.

Since you feel that it will be an unreliable carry peice, I'll pay for your shipping and transfer fees, and take it off your hands.
Hell, it's not worth what you are asking based on your criteria above, so I'll pay what I listed above and take my chances with it, and will not hold you responsible if it fails me.
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 9:06:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/20/2003 9:07:57 PM EDT by Sparky315]
Someone really needs a hobby to help burn up all that excess time. Someone misquoted you a delivery time? Shit happens. Maybe you just got a new guy at the order desk who honestly didn't know. And maybe the deal with the mags is another unfortunate but honest mistake. Jim Hager probably emailed an underling and told them to send the mags. Not having heard differently, he would have assumed that they had actually been sent. Do I know that's what happened? No, but it's definitely possible, and you don't know that it didn't. Although I think they are substantially overpriced, there are literally thousands of completely satisfied Wilson 1911 owners out there who trust their lives to them every day. Just because everything didn't go exactly the way you wanted it to doesn't mean their products are inferior and are going to fail you at a critical moment. Your assertion that based on your experience you think Wilson Combat is staffed by liars is laughable, and to leap from there to their products being untrustworthy is totally ludicrous.

In my opinion, you are overreacting, big time. This is a very minor issue, and certainly not one that merits you trying to bash Wilson Combat all over the internet. Grow up and get a life.
Link Posted: 5/21/2003 12:44:11 AM EDT
I can't believe you guys.

He heard from WILSON that it would be an 8-10 week wait.

He paid in advance.

His complaint, simple as it was to begin with, was mis-handled after the fact as well.

At least he has posted correspondence to back up his claims.

He is comfortable and justified in his decision.
Link Posted: 5/21/2003 1:05:23 AM EDT
Did Wilson Combat KNOWLING mislead you as to what you were getting for your money or provide you an inferior product and refuse a)make it right or b) refund your money?

No. And thats what makes a bad company.

Welcome to the world of custom ordered guns. Ive never had one show up on time.
Link Posted: 5/21/2003 2:34:14 AM EDT
Hmmmmmmm..let's see...One of you guys orders $2000 worth of gear from me, pays me and then I tell you it is going to be 10wks. The time frame comes and goes. Now YOU HAVE TO CALL ME (not the other way around) to find out I'M HAVING PROBLEMS WITH SUPPLIERS and it will be another 6mos. Guess you wouldn't be a bit ticked off if I sat on your $2000.00 for a while?
Link Posted: 5/21/2003 5:03:00 AM EDT
Sorry to see problem with a company that make such a fine pistol.

I would not have gotten rid of a the pistol if it was what I wanted. You could not get your money back from wilson and had already had it in hand. Seems like cutting your nose off to spite your face.

Just cause a women lied to me doesnt mean I still wouldnt have sex with her

Link Posted: 5/21/2003 6:14:27 AM EDT

Originally Posted By greenmountainpatriot:
Hmmmmmmm..let's see...One of you guys orders $2000 worth of gear from me, pays me and then I tell you it is going to be 10wks. The time frame comes and goes. Now YOU HAVE TO CALL ME (not the other way around) to find out I'M HAVING PROBLEMS WITH SUPPLIERS and it will be another 6mos. Guess you wouldn't be a bit ticked off if I sat on your $2000.00 for a while?



Sure, I'm gonna be upset, but I'm not going to give up one of the finest handguns made, just because I'm upset. I'm going to get a few extra mags, an embossed towel, some cleaning tools etc. Every time there is another delay, I'm going to get something for free, and Wilson will do it!!!!! They WILL do just about anything short of coming out and washing your car to keep a customer satisfied. All you have to do is voice your dissatisfaction.

It's still a Wilson handgun, and all arguments, delays, (percieved)lies aside they're quite good guns. I think he's "cutting off his nose to spite his face" as well.
Link Posted: 5/21/2003 6:16:03 AM EDT

Originally Posted By greenmountainpatriot:
Hmmmmmmm..let's see...One of you guys orders $2000 worth of gear from me, pays me and then I tell you it is going to be 10wks. The time frame comes and goes. Now YOU HAVE TO CALL ME (not the other way around) to find out I'M HAVING PROBLEMS WITH SUPPLIERS and it will be another 6mos. Guess you wouldn't be a bit ticked off if I sat on your $2000.00 for a while?



Hey, he gave the $2000 to the dealer, not WC, the dealer pays for the gun upon arrival. And at $2000 he was paying more than we charged for CQB's, IIRC the last one I saw was $1765 or so.

Just try ordering a custom optioned BMW...
Link Posted: 5/21/2003 6:24:08 AM EDT
FWIW, I have only seen 2 gun mfg's handle things in a dishonest manner, trying to say there was no issue with their guns, and covering up their problems. Glock and Springfield. But after throughly running the gun through it's paces, I would still carry either and be fairly confident of its reliability.

But I won't buy either.....

Not meant as a flame, but WC has not had problems with the reliability of their firearms, and mistakes are made. They did try to make it right, and the Dealer not WC had this gentlemans money.
Link Posted: 5/21/2003 9:45:31 AM EDT
how do we all know that the dealer had the money? most dealers would have terms (60 or 90 days) to pay the balance of the gun. sure the dealer was sitting on the PROFIT of the gun, but WC was sitting on the rest. this all assumes that his dealer even has terms with WC in which case he would have paid in full upon placing the order.

if i spent 2k on anything and got the runaround, id be pissed, especially if the company prided themselves in CUSTOMER SERVICE. lying does not help the issue at all. i dont give a shit if this is de rigeur for the custom gun industry... they had better shape up or stand in the breadline. WC is NOT the only game in town by a long-shot...



Posted by u-baddog:
Just cause a women lied to me doesnt mean I still wouldnt have sex with her



yeah? what if her lie was that she didnt have gonnorhea?
Link Posted: 5/21/2003 10:24:25 AM EDT
Wilson Combat has always had great customer service when ive delt with them. Sounds like your dealer is a prick not Wilson. Good shops wont ask for more than 25% down.

Paper
Link Posted: 5/21/2003 10:32:31 AM EDT
The dealer had nothing to do with it. Wilson Combat is the one who was unable to meet the deadline they provided.

WC was also the one who was not truthful when dealing with me.

The dealer I delt with has always been fair, and when I cancelled the order and told him why, he handed me my refund right there in cash, since that is how I paid.

I can not see were the dealer is at fault for Wilson's Actions.
Link Posted: 5/21/2003 11:13:22 AM EDT
I can not believe some of you guys!!! customer service is one of, if not THE most important part of any buisiness transaction!!

I think Jonathan was right on for complaining as he did maybe if more people followed his example many of the companies would remember who 'butters their toast', poor customer service should never be allowed to flourish, that is how apathy for customers begins, then everyone is left eating shit and made to like it !!!

I personaly applaud Jonathan's effforts and often follow suit when disatisfied.

To those of you who don't agree, thats your perogative, but remember if a company gets away with poor service it becomes the norm, I hope you like the taste of shit.
I expect there will be a lot of it to to eat in the future.
Link Posted: 5/21/2003 12:09:01 PM EDT
Well it sucks Jon wasnt happy with their service. My experience has been the opposite, and my made in 2000 (back when they were cheaper) Service Grade Protector is my favorite .45.
Link Posted: 5/21/2003 12:25:12 PM EDT
I don't think your getting it in YOUR head that when you order something CUSTOM the time frame they tell you is an estimate. They tell you 8-10 weeks as to NOT get your hopes up that you will get it before then. Why are you getting so pissed cause they told you another 6 months? You don't have to go off bad mouthing the company.. you could have just said I do not wish to wait, get your refund and try and find one in the counter. Not make a big fucking deal out of it all. Its not like they singled you out. As for the mags.. tell em you want 4 of em.. then resell them on the EE. MAYBE they did have a problem with the mags. UPS loses shit all the time.. it has happened to me a couple of times.
Link Posted: 5/21/2003 12:59:14 PM EDT
I am a Wilson dealer, and use and carry their guns. I DO NOT EVER special order them. I simply place my order and offer them for sale WHEN THEY ARE IN STOCK. I don't like the whole idea of "special orders". A Master Dealer does not have to pay for the guns until they are RECEIVED unless he does not qualify for open account. By the way, as a dealer, if your Wilson guns don't sell, Wilson will buy them back. Sorry you had a problem, but I think you had a problem with the dealer. I think you contacted me when I had a compact in stock, but you wanted ambi and mine wasn't if I remember right. Wilson did change foundries, and the rep may have quoted the delivery before the problem started. I'm not defending Wilson, just explaining how I do business as an FFL. I will not take your money until I have a piece of iron to place in your hand. Sorry you had trouble. By the way, the only gun I ever had a problem with was a KZ that I sold to my nephew. I sent it back, and 1 week later they sent it back fixed.
Link Posted: 5/21/2003 2:22:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ADTECHARMS:


Originally Posted By QCMGR:
So what the hell are you crying about?




Simple, what makes one Custom 1911 different from another, and what was the main reason I bought a Wilson over the rest.

Quality, Accuracy, Service

Most Custom 1911's are as accurate,

Most Custom 1911's are of the same quality,

The reason I bought a Wilson was the service they advertise so heavily.



I call Bullsh-t. This is what you said in your second post:


I wanted to carry a weapon that had two main qualifications, exceptional accuracy, and above all else that when I pulled the trigger, regardless of the situation the gun went “BANG”.


It seems they have met that expectation.


They have failed miserably on one of the three. When I pay $2000 of my money I expect for a company to deliver on what they advertise. $2000 is alot of money for me, it may not be for you, but it is for me.


I would never pay $2K for a 1911. I do my own reliability work.


I bought this pistol for one purpose and one purpose only, and that was Self-Defense. If I can not trust the company, how can I trust the gun with my life?


That is nonsensical.


A better example would be if you spent your hard earned money on a car, and it was missing the main reason you bought it (whether it be leather seats or a cd player or whatever) would you be happy?


Your ranting is nonsense. Your pistol is not missing any parts. It goes "bang" each time you pull the trigger. If you think buying a gun is difficult, try buying a Corvette! I bought my Corvette because it is a Corvette, not because GM is an honest company. The pistol meets it's design intent. It is a custom gun. Shit happens. You admit the gun is reliable. That is what WC hangs their hat on.
Link Posted: 5/21/2003 6:28:37 PM EDT
What I can't believe is the guy whining about this claims to be an entrepreneur.

Hey bud, try running a company for a few years. Speaking from experience, shit happens. You bought a gun. You got a gun. This deal with the mags was just plain dumb. I can see being miffed about it. But it sounds like an honest mistake. Why not just move on with your life? Its people like you that make running a small to midsize business very challenging. I'm sure you are happier at McDonalds than at a mom and pop restaurant too.........
Link Posted: 5/21/2003 8:24:15 PM EDT
Where'd the 4 10 rounders come from?

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=5&f=4&t=4412&w=searchPop
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 2:52:24 AM EDT
I already had the four ten rounders when I bought the pistol.
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 5:13:05 AM EDT
You should NOT have made any threats. You should not have argued.

You were making some good progress and then you pushed too hard. You caused him to lose face, injured his pride and accused him of lying.

He began by apologizing, accepting the blame and trying to remedy the situation.

You let your anger get the better of you and you will know next time how to handle this differently.

If you had remained calm, accepted his explanation, and worked WITH him to reach an equitable resolution... oh well.

Live and learn.

Selling the gun is a bit over the top. You are not harming the company. Posting here is a mistake on your part.

TRG
Link Posted: 5/23/2003 6:55:43 AM EDT
Adtecharms, why didn't you take a look at GunAmerica or even in Gun List befor eyou started this BS? Wilson guns are readily available to anyone with fingers, eyes and a brain. I just did a 10 second search and came up with over 30 CQBs starting at $1600 NIB on GunsAmerica. If you are mad at anyone, I'd take a hard look in the mirror

Sorry, this is a bunch of BS.
Link Posted: 5/23/2003 11:57:54 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SP10:
Adtecharms, why didn't you take a look at GunAmerica or even in Gun List befor eyou started this BS? Wilson guns are readily available to anyone with fingers, eyes and a brain. I just did a 10 second search and came up with over 30 CQBs starting at $1600 NIB on GunsAmerica. If you are mad at anyone, I'd take a hard look in the mirror

Sorry, this is a bunch of BS.



I did look at GunsAmerica and Gunbroker and at that time there where none configured the way I wanted them. Specifically with an Ambi safety and a Mag Chute.

Besides I also like to try and support my local dealer.

I find it interesting that when I recieve poor customer service many people here seem to be unable to beleive that Wilson dropped the ball.


Somehow I did something to warrent this or some how it was the dealer.


And just for the record, after starting this thread I contacted Wilson so the would have an opportunity to respond. I also gave them the opportnity to take the pistol back as there policy states they will do if the mistake is theirs. I was told by Wilson COmbat they could not do that because of BATF Regulations.

I will ad that to the list of times they have not been truthful.
Link Posted: 5/23/2003 6:07:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ADTECHARMS:

Somehow I did something to warrent this or some how it was the dealer.




You threatend them:


"I told Mr. Hager that I had not told anyone about the problems I had when I purchased my pistol. This is still a true statement, although that will change thirty days after I mail this letter. I will be posting this letter, as well as a brief description of my conversation with Mr. Hager on the following websites:
www.ar15.com
www.berettaforum.net
www.1911forum.com
among others
If you wish to respond on these message boards that is fine."


TRG
Link Posted: 5/23/2003 6:25:56 PM EDT
I did not threaten them, I was mearly pointing out the consiquences of their actions.

They chose not to correct the problems.

I also do feel it is right to blindside them.
Link Posted: 5/23/2003 6:38:17 PM EDT
Welcome to the world of custom guns. I just take the estimate I get from my gunsmith and put another zero on the end of it, that way I get it early :)
Link Posted: 5/23/2003 6:38:23 PM EDT
I'd deal with WC again in a heartbeat.

As for you, I wouldn't buy that CQB from you if you offered it to me for $500.

The only business that you're really affecting here is your own. You just can't let this thing go (not like it was anything in the first place).

You're quickly proving yourself absolutely detached from reality. Or extremely defensive and trying to prove your point. Even after you already should have realized that 90% of the board disagrees with you.

Let it go already.
Link Posted: 5/25/2003 12:19:29 AM EDT
I get excited just thinking about the prospect of owning a Wilson. I think that they are some of the coolest handguns that I've seen. (They make a pretty neat AR as well)
Link Posted: 5/25/2003 6:32:06 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/25/2003 6:35:19 AM EDT by Frankie]
adtecharms -- Your situation was unfortunate. However, your immediate remedy was and looked to be fine and was probably heading in the right direction. The person you received a reply from at the company seemed to be sincere and was truly attempting to make things right for you. Accidents and miscommunication sometimes happens in business situations. But, I believe you eventually pushed the envelope/overstepped your bounderies/over reacted/acted irrational/demanded perfection/ and basically fucked up! By the time you wrote that third letter to the company I'm sure they were as happy to get rid of you as you were of them. For every one customer like you, they probably have thousands that are happy, satisfied, and repeat customers. If you act that same way with the people you deal with in your business, count me as one who wouldn't want to do business with you. Maybe guns aren't in your best interest. Perhaps BB stacking or underwater basket weaving would be better suited to your needs.
Link Posted: 5/26/2003 4:25:57 AM EDT
duhhh...whatever the problem...I have another beef....I really don't quite understand the "honesty issue" especially when what you propose is to sell the gun to some other "unsuspecting sucker" and pass along a problem gun (if that were the case) ...would you tell them the gun had a "bad feature/problem," that you are selling the gun because of an issue with the company's customer service, or play "buyer beware?" It sorta reminds me of issues faced during the old prohibition days...when saloon keepers got converted and sold the bars to someone else <grin>. Honesty is honesty...isn't it??
Mike
Link Posted: 5/27/2003 5:48:24 AM EDT
So if Wilson is such a bad company that can not be trusted how can you be trusted since you would pass that piece of untrustworthy crap pistol onto some other poor sucker?

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