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Posted: 6/29/2005 11:43:22 AM EDT
Hi, I am looking at the walther 99,sw 99 or the beretta 96, in either .40 or .45 (the 96 is only a.40 I know) which one which cal and the pros and cons of each. I will get them with night sites. this is not for a duty weapon.
Link Posted: 6/29/2005 2:30:53 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/29/2005 3:57:37 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/29/2005 4:15:41 PM EDT
Given those options, I went with the SW99 in .45acp. I already have a 92FS but you didn't list that option.

Pro: .45 will be more accurate than the .40, all things being equal such as using commercial ammo. .45 is usually cheaper or as cheap as .40 when buying shoot 'em up stuff. .45 makes a much nicer hole than the .40 will. The .40 has MUCH higher CUP pressure ratings than the .45 & as a result recoil will be a bit more in most guns, IMO. This may not be a discernable difference to you?

Con: The .40 will hold a few more rounds in the mag. That's the only con I can think of.


My .o2
Link Posted: 6/29/2005 5:00:23 PM EDT
.40 and .45 are they the same size frame/barrel?
Link Posted: 6/29/2005 10:27:48 PM EDT
Out of the guns that you have I would go with the Beretta.
But I would get, and have a Glock 17, and 19.
Link Posted: 6/30/2005 1:20:15 AM EDT
How about a couger in .45. I had one and it was a great pistol. I have a .40 couger now and love it. It feels better to me than my 92fs and it was a lot cheaper.
Link Posted: 6/30/2005 5:20:38 AM EDT
Do you have any pic's of the cougar? I already have some glocks plus that is what i carry at work.
Link Posted: 6/30/2005 11:09:31 AM EDT

Originally Posted By NYCOP:
Do you have any pic's of the cougar? I already have some glocks plus that is what i carry at work.

]

Here is a link to a picture of the .40. The .45 looks just like it but is a little larger but not much. I used my .45 as a carry gun so it is not huge. The couger I have now is a stainless .40 and it was the same price as the blued. The barrel rotates and some how reduces the felt recoil. I am not trying to promote this store but it is a picture.

http://www.impactguns.com/store/804F30.html

picture of .45
http://www.randymays.com/berettacougar.html

http://www.galleryofguns.com/ShootingTimes/Articles/DisplayArticles.asp?ID=21
Link Posted: 6/30/2005 1:08:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By NYCOP:
.40 and .45 are they the same size frame/barrel?



As I avoid anything .40 caliber like the plague, I cannot say how its frame compares to the .45acp version. Certainly the .45 barrel will be bigger due to the larger diameter of its caliber.

I will almost say with certainty that you will enjoy the .45 version more than the .40 cal.

Link Posted: 6/30/2005 1:09:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By GenghisKhan:
How about a couger in .45. I had one and it was a great pistol.





For me personally, the Cougars don't balance well due to their extra thickness of their slides required by their rotating barrel systems.
Link Posted: 7/2/2005 1:32:11 PM EDT
Why don't you like .40? what advantage does the .45 have? pros cons of each? thanks
Link Posted: 7/2/2005 1:44:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By nsabjg:
Out of the guns that you have I would go with the Beretta.
But I would get, and have a Glock 17, and 19.




+1 for Glock. Have you considered CZ???? +1ooo you wont be dissapointed, just don't buy a Tang.
Link Posted: 7/2/2005 1:47:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By NYCOP:
Why don't you like .40? what advantage does the .45 have? pros cons of each? thanks



45 is a fight-stopper but it does not penetrate car bodies, doors, or surfaces well.
.40 better stopper than 9mm and higher capacity. Also depending on manufacturer you can buy a .357 Sig barrel, it also outpenetrates .45.
Link Posted: 7/2/2005 2:00:27 PM EDT
My P-99 has performed flawlessly for me and it is chambered in .40 S&W. The only con for the P-99 that I can think of is availability and price for high cap mags. I found a few at Knob Creek for $40. The SW99 is essentially the same except for the .45 which is somewhat bigger. I don't think you could go wrong with any of your choices though.

Link Posted: 7/3/2005 1:07:18 AM EDT
The .45 couger is not much bigger than the 9mm or .40 and it shoots well. To me the balance is better than my 92. I do not normaly like .40s because of the flip but the cougers recoil is fairly low for a .40. Its not for every body I guess. The .45 Couger also has low recoil for a .45.
Link Posted: 7/3/2005 1:10:16 AM EDT
None of the above. If the Department permits it, carry a SIG P220 in .45 ACP or a H&K USP in the same caliber. .40 was a compromise caliber because of concerns that Officers would not be able to shoot .45 ACP, and agencies needed something bigger than 9mm x 19. Don't compromise. If you need more velocity for better penetration, use a 185 of 200 grain bullet.
Link Posted: 7/3/2005 1:12:55 AM EDT
I forgot to mention that so-called "night sights" using tritium do get dimmer after afew years, so you'll have to replace them from time to time. Also, the advantage of tritium sights is diminished when using your flashlight (or a dedicated weaponlight) for low light shooting. You might consider using a CTC LaserGrip if you need to aim in poor lighting conditions, since the laser dot is still visible when using a flashlight. This arrangement works fine with my SureFire 6P even with the P61 bulb.
Link Posted: 7/3/2005 9:28:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By NYCOP:
Why don't you like .40?




Solution looking for a problem, IMO. A 9mm +P will do anything a .40 will do, IMO, & at a lot less chamber pressure.
Link Posted: 7/13/2005 4:07:29 PM EDT
Anyone else?
Link Posted: 7/14/2005 7:48:35 AM EDT
Walther or Beretta I can reccomend. I have both in 9mm. I do not like the feel of the S&W. JMO
Link Posted: 7/15/2005 4:45:08 PM EDT
Don't the walthers and the S&W 99 feel the same?
Link Posted: 7/15/2005 10:01:48 PM EDT
The only gun I've shot that you've listed is the Walther P99. It was the SA/DA version in .40, and seemed like a good pistol. Had a smooth action and I thought the recoil was very manageable. Plus it was fairly lightweight which is a plus if your going to carry it around, CCW or open or whatever.
Link Posted: 7/15/2005 11:05:24 PM EDT
SW99 compact

that pistol melts into your hand...when its time to shoot..

one of the best shooting pistols i have shot..as well.

i carry one daily in a high noon IWB..
Link Posted: 7/16/2005 4:24:30 PM EDT
Can you explain the diffrent triggers? and what model gun is what? the one I held you could pull the trigger and it would lock back half way.
Link Posted: 7/17/2005 5:10:48 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/17/2005 5:11:44 AM EDT by sapper326]
I have had a P99 since they came out and it is hands down the best handgun I have ever fired. The trigger on the P99 starts out as double action on the first round and after the first then fires in single action, this is a safety feature. They also have a DA only model and a QA model which has a trigger pull like a Glock in that it is a constant 7lb pull. I like the ballistics of a .40 and in a P99 the recoil is quite managable. I have two .45 HK and a Springfield 1911 and the P99 is better feel and more acurate as well as very easy to maintain, IMHO. I suggest you fire the Walther a bit more if you can and you will be hooked.
Link Posted: 7/21/2005 2:24:51 PM EDT
I don't know why i have such a hard time with this trigger thing, do both models have a decocker? and do they both have the feature that if you pulled the trigger it would lock back half way? And what is a second strike feature? which is the one to go with? between the 99 models ( which trigger) and is the da/sa is the 99 this type of gun?

IS there other diffrence between the diffrent 99 then the trigger?
Link Posted: 7/25/2005 4:35:13 PM EDT
The second strike feature I believe is that the P99 is double action. So, if the round doesn’t go off with the first pull of the trigger, you can pull it again and get another strike on the primer. I have all the above mentioned handguns with the exception of the Beretta. I think the P99 is the most versatile handgun available IMO. The SW99 is basically the same. The slide will be a Walther and the receiver an S&W. IMO, go with the Walther package. I haven't cared for S&W since they bowed to Clinton years ago. However, they are the importers of the Walthers now.
Link Posted: 7/25/2005 5:53:57 PM EDT
I tough the slide was S&W and the receiver was walther?
Link Posted: 7/25/2005 5:59:14 PM EDT
I guess now the ? is .40 or .45? is the there a big dif in the size of the gun itself?
Link Posted: 7/25/2005 6:02:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By NYCOP:
.40 and .45 are they the same size frame/barrel?



With most guns, .40 fits in a 9mm size frame, which is one of it's purposes in life. .40 is basically 10mm short, for all intents and purposes, 10mm is 25mm long, so it requires a .45 size frame (.45 is 22mm long) while .40 is something like 20mm long, so it'll fit in a 9mm sized frame. You often can't tell a 9mm and a .40 apart by just looking at them because they look exactly the same, while a .45 will require a larger frame. In fact, many .40 caliber weapons can be converted to 9mm (but the opposite usually isn't true). Most 9mm designs that have been modified into .40 have the slides strengthened, I'm unsure about the frames. Good example being the difference in the slide shape of the SIG P228 vs. the P229, the slide had to be strengthened for the P229 which is a .40 (and can be converted to 9mm and .357 SIG), while the other is a 9mm only.
Link Posted: 7/26/2005 4:59:38 PM EDT
Any other thoughs on the .40 or .45? I wish the berreta came in .45 in the 96 frame becasue I would that and then the 99 in the .40. the info so far the info has been great. thanks
Link Posted: 7/30/2005 4:43:52 AM EDT
Keep the info coming thanks
Link Posted: 8/2/2005 3:17:42 PM EDT
Is either avaialbe in .357 sig and if so what do you think of this? better tehn the .40 or .45 in these pistols? thanks
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 11:42:23 AM EDT
the "stopping power" doesn't vary much between the 9mm, .40 S&W and the .45 ACP. FBI tests have shown that they all create very similar size cavities with good hollow point ammo. Between a .40, .45, and .357sig I would pick the .40 as your capacity is higher than the .45 and I have heard (never actually shot one) that the .357sig is very punishing on the ears.
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 2:13:54 PM EDT
Is the and SW realy that much worse then the walter? I am open to other guns I just like the look and feel of the 99 ( the S&W more then the walther) and the Beretta I have liked since lethal weapon the movie came out.
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 3:57:51 PM EDT
get whichever you like. The Walther, S&W and Beretta are well known companies and you shouldn't have problems with whichever you chose. I am a Beretta fan and would recommend one of them personally
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 8:39:36 AM EDT
i love my p99 .40. shoots just as well as my 92fs straight out the box. the kick isnt bad, light weight for carry and it fits my hand like a glove(since it comes with 3 back straps for different hand sizes.)
everything you ever wanted to know about it is here...

www.praxagora.com/lunde/WaltherP99FAQ/index.html
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 3:21:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 52brandon:
the "stopping power" doesn't vary much between the 9mm, .40 S&W and the .45 ACP. FBI tests have shown that they all create very similar size cavities with good hollow point ammo. Between a .40, .45, and .357sig I would pick the .40 as your capacity is higher than the .45 and I have heard (never actually shot one) that the .357sig is very punishing on the ears.



That's about right. Some charts I have seen, using a percentage scale for stopping, show 91% with 9mm or .45, and 96% with .40. The conclusion there is it's not really much of a difference, especially as shot placement is a much greater variable. One could also throw in "ringers" such as Cor-Bon 9mm.

As far as .357 Sig is concerned, you are correct, it is louder, and more of a "crack." If you buy a .40, you can usually get a drop in .357 SIG barrel as they are identical to .40 except for the neck and throat. So, you can have a .357 SIG for jollies if you want it. The two possible advantages (at least theoretically) of .357 SIG are that it might be more reliable feeding (.357 bullet and neck into a .40 cal hole in the chamber), and the smaller cross section. In a situation where the velocities and Kinetic energies are about the same the pounds per square inch at the target will be greater with a .357 because of the smaller frontal area, until it expands. You'll have better penetration and then a similar energy dump.
Link Posted: 8/12/2005 5:41:38 AM EDT
96 Brigadeer in INOX is the beretta i am looking at. I am leaning toward the sw 99 also. I may get both.
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