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Posted: 2/19/2016 3:17:41 AM EDT
When do you think SIG’s quality control started to go down?
Link Posted: 2/19/2016 3:40:42 AM EDT
When they started making them in the US.

Link Posted: 2/19/2016 3:55:15 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/19/2016 3:56:43 AM EDT by Idaholandho]
Although it has been a topic of conversation for a while, I have often wondered the same. I absolutely love Sig, their history and still own rifles and a couple of older pistols that will never leave me.
On the other hand, within the year,  I've owned 3...yes 3 Sig 556 xi's acquired in a package deal and none of them would shoot worth a fuck. They were most def the worst fucking shooting rifles I have ever owned.
Not to mention, the finish on one of them appeared to be rattle canned in a dust storm.
I also recently bought two Nightmare's for my wife and daughter and after a few hours of shooting factory and handloads, failure to feeds, barely hit 10 inches of paper, they weren't listed on GB soon enough.
It is uncanny to me but their QC has hit rock bottom imo. I would have to attest it to the largest inventory of weapons produced in the history of the company.
It would be interesting to know where they stand in today's market based on production, including rifles, pistols and silencers. I assume their production is huge and their QC is suffering.

Edit - added never in first sentence
Link Posted: 2/19/2016 4:09:11 AM EDT
When the guy that fucked up Kimber took over US production.
Link Posted: 2/19/2016 8:44:42 AM EDT
Personally I have to say after 2010 but that is due to that is when I started to notice.  I own three Sigs: 1997 German made P226, an early 2000's P239, and a P938.  I have not had the issues as others have on the P938 and I do have an early production one.  I guess I got lucky?!?!  I continued to read about all their issues and tried to ignore them.  Recently though I discovered what people were taking about.  Sig basically told me "not our problem" on an issue lately and it made me realize they are not the same company as they once were.  I was recently looking for a new 9mm competition style gun with a threaded barrel.  For the longest time I was only looking at Sig.  After that experience I vowed no more Sig until shit changes.  It is their problem for fucking up on a stupid barrel.  It's too bad
Link Posted: 2/19/2016 9:21:21 AM EDT
I DID have an issue with my Mk25. It was fixed, but I sold the gun as it did not sit well with me. I'm off the 226 platform for now, I may return to it with a combat model, but more likely than not, I won't.

For starters, while small, I wasn't impressed with the finish. The decocker rubbed the finish off the gun. Seems like something that shouldn't happen on it. Furthermore, it seems like something that is inherent to the 226 platform since they all share this part in common.

The actual issue that I had was that the firing pin retaining pin, either shoddy from factory or use became roughed up and caused issues with the firing pin being stuck in the forward position and fail to fires.

My smith simply removed the pin and turned it around so the roughed portion was not oriented towards to firing pin, but nevertheless, I lost confidence in the platform.

To be honest, this bummed me out. I want to like SIG. I loved the pistol and it shot and handled great for me. But that issue left a bad taste in my mouth.
Link Posted: 2/19/2016 9:57:05 AM EDT
They're customer service seems to be lacking also. That's what really turns me off from them...
Link Posted: 2/19/2016 10:28:51 AM EDT
I haven't seen it.

I have owned or own the following.

Mid 90's 228 W. German - Perfect.
Mid 90's 229 US Made - Perfect
2008-9 ish 220 US Made - Not perfect but customer service was great to deal with and fix
2012 1911 TacOps - Perfect

I've not owned or shot any of their rifles but my experience with pistols over the years has been very positive.
Link Posted: 2/19/2016 11:06:54 AM EDT
The most recent Sig I have is an older 2340 that is a decent enough pistol.  However, the 522 rifle I got around 2010-2011 timeframe is a jamomattic and nowhere near as good of a performing .22 plinker as my H&K MP-5SD .22 has been.  I may still get a surplus P6 and a used P228 but I really have no desire to get a new made Sig.
Link Posted: 2/19/2016 11:12:41 AM EDT
I have to disagree that the quality has gone down.  I have not noticed anything out of the norm.  Every maker has a certain degree of problems Glock S&W Sig HK whoever, it is part of making machines.  Every machine has a point that it WILL fail no matter what because ultimately it is made by man.
Link Posted: 2/19/2016 11:20:09 AM EDT
I saw some pretty ugly stuff coming from Sig in around 2005 to 2007. Some of the worst I saw were barrels that were completely rusted on brand new pistols we would take out of boxes to put on display in shop.

But with that I have seen Colt ship out some shitty looking 6920's, Smith with some screwed up finishes, and a number of other manufacturers over the years that looked like QC was drunk or asleep at the wheel.

Link Posted: 2/19/2016 11:22:43 AM EDT
I haven't noticed any issues with my Sig's. I'm fairly new to them, but I've been happy so far.

I kinda approach guns differently I guess. If it functions properly, I'm good. I have yet to see a finish issue that would make me send a pistol back or not buy it in the first place. I only have one pistol I had made where that kind of quality was demanded. Sometimes there are handling marks from the dealer alone. People touch them and put them down etc.. I'm going to beat them up anyway so who cares.
Link Posted: 2/19/2016 11:26:30 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/19/2016 11:31:14 AM EDT
I have a W. German P226, M11-A1, and a P938.  No issues and all three are great pistols.  Small sample size of 3.  
Link Posted: 2/19/2016 11:36:36 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By storminnorman:
They're customer service seems to be lacking also. That's what really turns me off from them...
View Quote



The late 90's is when I dumped off the 5  Sigs I owned.  I think after that came the Mosquito that was breaking and the GSR which was a huge piece of shit.  Stir in some bad customer service and then it really set in.  I recall someone around that era broke a slide on a 226 and Sig told him to get fucked.  They don't really have any warranty was the word at the time.  At that point, I had enough.  

I had a GSR and the chamber was too tight, slide fit too tight, and the extractor was fucked.  I didn't have it long.  

I have picked up a Trailside and a 220 since all of that, but I have no special love for Sig.
Link Posted: 2/19/2016 12:02:46 PM EDT
2005 is when Ron J. Cohen left Kimber and started to fuck up Sig. The Gun of the week sales plan doesn't help either.
Link Posted: 2/19/2016 3:07:49 PM EDT
I've heard the Ron Cohen stories but my Tac Ops 1911 I bought new in 2011 is 100% reliable, as is the Mk25 I bought right before Christmas last year.
Link Posted: 2/19/2016 3:31:23 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Hunter-Killer:
When do you think SIG’s quality control started to go down?
View Quote


When they hired Ron Cohen.  (that's an easy one)
Link Posted: 2/19/2016 4:19:50 PM EDT

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Miami_JBT:


2005 is when Ron J. Cohen left Kimber and started to fuck up Sig. The Gun of the week sales plan doesn't help either.
View Quote
Correct answer.

 
Link Posted: 2/19/2016 9:42:39 PM EDT
sample size of one, but my m400 has been awesome.
Link Posted: 2/20/2016 10:36:36 AM EDT
I must be the luckiest man alive, because I've purchased 50+ Sigs since the early 2000's, and not a single case that would count negatively against them.  I've sent a couple back for warranty, but each time the turnaround is ridiculously fast, like days not weeks.  

Sig quality gone down?  That's ridiculous.  Compare any 80's Sig to the same current production, the current guns are a whole new level of materials quality, machine work quality, and fit and finish.  Current production guns make the 80's and 90's stuff look rudimentary.
Link Posted: 2/20/2016 11:12:00 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/20/2016 11:14:28 AM EDT by SecurityForcesmember]
When they started listening to that dipshit from Kimber and pumping out retarded fucking guns.

Sig built a bullet proof reputation on decades of top notch firearms that were used by professionals the world over.... And than pissed it away. At least you can get a .380 in the gambler finish though.

IMO Sig should drop all the superfluous BS they dump on the market and go back to the bread and butter of Sig! Go back to bullet proof quality P series guns and maybe a few 1911 models that are duty quality as well.
Link Posted: 2/20/2016 12:26:07 PM EDT
When is it when they would corrode by just looking at it? One member here went on a deployment and came back to find his sig flaking away. It was weird, I even remember the glock that was in same place rusting.
Link Posted: 2/20/2016 12:40:38 PM EDT

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Ivan1:


When is it when they would corrode by just looking at it? One member here went on a deployment and came back to find his sig flaking away. It was weird, I even remember the glock that was in same place rusting.
View Quote

That was this thread











A friend of mine called me up and asked if I knew anyone that was REALLY good at fixing Glocks. I said what the hell, and told him I would take a look....









His stepdad left them in a lock box for a year while deployed, and came home to this.



The Glock took about 45minutes to get cleaned up. It passes the bench function test no problem. It now has some pitting in the slide, but everything else cleaned up nicely. The hardest part on it was removing the extractor, which I had to clean out the extractor channel of rust to get it out. It probably would have been funtional if not for that.



As for the poor P229, preliminary exam looks like it is toast. The aluminum frame is actually FLAKING away in the magazine well. Tonight I am going to pull it apart and I will get more pictures.



EZ
























Was finally able to call Sig this morning. I stated the situation and what happened, and was told they do not sell frames since they are the serialized part, and the best option was to part the gun out, take whatever money was made from the salvaged parts, and buy a new gun



Well, guess at least the Glock wasn't a total loss.





Update 3/25



Got a text from the friend that one of the people in our group *MAY* have found a bare frame. Have no other details, so the guts may live again. He shot the Glock and loves the damned thing. Needless to say it is 100% reliable. If we do end up parting out the Sig he will probably be getting a G23
Link Posted: 2/20/2016 1:44:36 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Miami_JBT:
That was this thread


Gun Corrosion in a watertight case, new pics up P3....Sig and Glock carnage New update in OP - AR15.Com Archive






A friend of mine called me up and asked if I knew anyone that was REALLY good at fixing Glocks. I said what the hell, and told him I would take a look....


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v470/meestermurphy/4c0705f6.jpg

His stepdad left them in a lock box for a year while deployed, and came home to this.

The Glock took about 45minutes to get cleaned up. It passes the bench function test no problem. It now has some pitting in the slide, but everything else cleaned up nicely. The hardest part on it was removing the extractor, which I had to clean out the extractor channel of rust to get it out. It probably would have been funtional if not for that.

As for the poor P229, preliminary exam looks like it is toast. The aluminum frame is actually FLAKING away in the magazine well. Tonight I am going to pull it apart and I will get more pictures.

EZ

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v470/meestermurphy/624d165e.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v470/meestermurphy/3ec5f3ea.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v470/meestermurphy/38645b75.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v470/meestermurphy/f649f967.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v470/meestermurphy/b8d7e7d4.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v470/meestermurphy/e873e9a3.jpg




Was finally able to call Sig this morning. I stated the situation and what happened, and was told they do not sell frames since they are the serialized part, and the best option was to part the gun out, take whatever money was made from the salvaged parts, and buy a new gun

Well, guess at least the Glock wasn't a total loss.


Update 3/25

Got a text from the friend that one of the people in our group *MAY* have found a bare frame. Have no other details, so the guts may live again. He shot the Glock and loves the damned thing. Needless to say it is 100% reliable. If we do end up parting out the Sig he will probably be getting a G23
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Miami_JBT:
Originally Posted By Ivan1:
When is it when they would corrode by just looking at it? One member here went on a deployment and came back to find his sig flaking away. It was weird, I even remember the glock that was in same place rusting.
That was this thread


Gun Corrosion in a watertight case, new pics up P3....Sig and Glock carnage New update in OP - AR15.Com Archive






A friend of mine called me up and asked if I knew anyone that was REALLY good at fixing Glocks. I said what the hell, and told him I would take a look....


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v470/meestermurphy/4c0705f6.jpg

His stepdad left them in a lock box for a year while deployed, and came home to this.

The Glock took about 45minutes to get cleaned up. It passes the bench function test no problem. It now has some pitting in the slide, but everything else cleaned up nicely. The hardest part on it was removing the extractor, which I had to clean out the extractor channel of rust to get it out. It probably would have been funtional if not for that.

As for the poor P229, preliminary exam looks like it is toast. The aluminum frame is actually FLAKING away in the magazine well. Tonight I am going to pull it apart and I will get more pictures.

EZ

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v470/meestermurphy/624d165e.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v470/meestermurphy/3ec5f3ea.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v470/meestermurphy/38645b75.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v470/meestermurphy/f649f967.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v470/meestermurphy/b8d7e7d4.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v470/meestermurphy/e873e9a3.jpg




Was finally able to call Sig this morning. I stated the situation and what happened, and was told they do not sell frames since they are the serialized part, and the best option was to part the gun out, take whatever money was made from the salvaged parts, and buy a new gun

Well, guess at least the Glock wasn't a total loss.


Update 3/25

Got a text from the friend that one of the people in our group *MAY* have found a bare frame. Have no other details, so the guts may live again. He shot the Glock and loves the damned thing. Needless to say it is 100% reliable. If we do end up parting out the Sig he will probably be getting a G23


Looks like that frame came into contact with NaOH (sodium hydroxide) or gallium.
Link Posted: 2/20/2016 6:22:45 PM EDT
All of my SIGs have been superb, German built as well as American, and I go the the range 2-3 times a week.
Link Posted: 2/20/2016 7:45:05 PM EDT
I want one of these:
Link Posted: 2/21/2016 10:26:18 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:


This.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:
Originally Posted By Madcap72:
When the guy that fucked up Kimber took over US production.


This.


That would be good ol' Ron Cohen... He was at Kimber for a while too... He has a bad history of cutting production costs in lieu of QA/QC; a fairly negative track record.

Now the German made stuff I'd love to have.
Link Posted: 2/21/2016 2:17:07 PM EDT

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Adam-Wayne:


I want one of these: http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/arex-zero1.jpg
View Quote




 
This I could get sticky with .
Link Posted: 2/21/2016 6:17:01 PM EDT
I wonder how many who have voted actually own a SIG
Link Posted: 2/21/2016 6:24:53 PM EDT

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By modelbuilder56:


I wonder how many who have voted actually own a SIG
View Quote




 
I haven't voted, my only sigs are a pair of P6's I bought from AIM.  I ordered a P320 but it'll probably be a few more weeks before it comes in.
Link Posted: 2/21/2016 6:59:47 PM EDT

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By modelbuilder56:


I wonder how many who have voted actually own a SIG
View Quote
Sig P220, Sig 522, and a Sig P2022.

 



The P220 was an old West German gun. Traded that long ago. The SP2022 is with my Old Man. He enjoys it.
Link Posted: 2/21/2016 8:14:53 PM EDT
I want one of either of these :



Link Posted: 2/21/2016 8:33:13 PM EDT
Of all the Sigs I've owned, I've only had problem with one, a brand new P229 Scorpion.
It would FTF and stove bolt.
I contacted Sig, they sent a FedEx label and off it went to the factory, no problem.
I got it back in about 2 weeks, after they replaced the extractor.
It runs just fine now.
I've owned 8 Sigs over the years and have been happy with them, even the Scorpion.
Link Posted: 2/21/2016 9:22:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/21/2016 9:33:17 PM EDT by BoomBoom]
All my Sig pistols are from late 90s and early 2000s. I have a 225, 229, and a 228, all were purchased used. All are flawlessly and eats everything. I can't ever recall them having any malfunctions. Don't own any of the new pistols so I can't say. I do have a Sig 522 rifle bought in 2013 and it has been flawless as well. It cycles any .22lr with the exception of Armscore hollow points.
Link Posted: 2/21/2016 9:23:52 PM EDT
I voted and own 3 Sigs.  A West German 228, a German made P220 from 2001, and a P226 Mk-25 that is probably 3 years old.  I have had zero issues with any of them.  I don't know if the Mk-25's get any more attention to detail than any other (New) Sig but I can see no differences in any of them.  

Maybe I have been lucky.
Link Posted: 2/21/2016 11:21:25 PM EDT
I own 4 SIGs, one made in 1943 and the other three modern US built (2 P238s and a 522), zero issues with any of them and when I have called CS to ask questions and request a few spares they have been helpful and polite.
Link Posted: 2/22/2016 10:45:51 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/22/2016 10:47:34 AM EDT by America-first]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:


This.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:
Originally Posted By Madcap72:
When the guy that fucked up Kimber took over US production.


This.


A smart and knowledgable member here posted this a while back.......

http://pistol-training.com/articles/trust-no-one-an-insiders-perspective

SIG is no exception to the rule, same as the rest of the manufacturers who all experience rough spots from time to time.

SIG makes fine pistols though, and folks who avoid them because of what they read on Internet message boards are missing out on some fine hanguns and shooting experiences.

All of my SIGs are between one and six years old....I've been a S&W guy for roughly 50 years and I'm at the range 2-3 times a week.

All I buy these days are SIGs.

I'll be at the range later today and I suspect that as usual, what I see there will be somewhat different than what I read on the Internet in all manner of ways.
Link Posted: 2/22/2016 12:39:13 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By _DR:
When they started making them in the US.

View Quote



THIS.

Sad to say it, but it is true.

Recently, they seem to turning things around with the intro of their own innovative suppressor line.
Link Posted: 2/22/2016 3:17:36 PM EDT
I've seen some new Sigs choke because of barrel or extractor issues lately. One was a stainless Elite 226 and the other is a brand new Legion 226.



The guns were built well, parts looked fine, but didn't get a proper QA and needed some work.




It can happen to any gun, which is why it is important to shoot new guns really rigorously, but this was 2 guns out of maybe 7 new ones I have seen being used frequently in the last two years.
Link Posted: 2/22/2016 5:00:18 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Miami_JBT:
The Gun of the week sales plan doesn't help either.[/span]
View Quote

This is my only problem with Sig.  They have too many guns in their catalog and a lot of it seems redundant to me.  Of course, Kimber is the same way, so I guess it makes sense...
Link Posted: 2/23/2016 2:07:58 AM EDT
I've own an MK25, P220 Extreme, 938, and a 238.  All of mine have been excellent.  However, my previous German 220, and my West German 226 were better.  They just felt better if that makes sense.  Now, I haven't had any issues with my current pieces, and they all go into the carry rotation, but every manufacturer has issues.
Link Posted: 2/23/2016 8:21:35 AM EDT
Extreme this, Legion that, blah, blah, blah.... they sure as shit like to charge a lot of money for guns with very little difference between the "fancy" models and a regular one.



The Mk25 I think is the biggest marketing scam out there.
Link Posted: 2/23/2016 10:35:55 AM EDT

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Miami_JBT:


Extreme this, Legion that, blah, blah, blah.... they sure as shit like to charge a lot of money for guns with very little difference between the "fancy" models and a regular one.



The Mk25 I think is the biggest marketing scam out there.

View Quote
The ones with the beavertail changes are a really nice. The Scorpion beavertail is great, and the Legion is similar but cut higher. Everything else is just coating, grips and marketing.  

 
Link Posted: 2/23/2016 11:25:22 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By TheJeanyus:

This is my only problem with Sig.  They have too many guns in their catalog and a lot of it seems redundant to me.  Of course, Kimber is the same way, so I guess it makes sense...
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Originally Posted By TheJeanyus:
Originally Posted By Miami_JBT:
The Gun of the week sales plan doesn't help either.[/span]

This is my only problem with Sig.  They have too many guns in their catalog and a lot of it seems redundant to me.  Of course, Kimber is the same way, so I guess it makes sense...


I wouldn't call

- 43 different variations of the 1911
- 21 different variations of the 226
- 24 different variations of the 220
- 10 different variations of the 229

"too many guns".   Pssshhh.... you guys are so wacky
Link Posted: 2/23/2016 11:29:00 AM EDT
Dunno.

I own 3 sig rifles, and none of them have given me a lick of trouble.  All are good shooters.

The stock fiasco with the MPX was annoying, though.
Link Posted: 2/23/2016 3:33:25 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Miami_JBT:
Extreme this, Legion that, blah, blah, blah.... they sure as shit like to charge a lot of money for guns with very little difference between the "fancy" models and a regular one.

The Mk25 I think is the biggest marketing scam out there.
View Quote




And now back to the question actually posed by this thread; the SIG MK 25 is unquestionably one of the highest quality pistols that is generally available in the marketplace, and not at all expensive for what you get.
Link Posted: 2/23/2016 6:19:42 PM EDT

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ken_mays:
I wouldn't call



- 43 different variations of the 1911

- 21 different variations of the 226

- 24 different variations of the 220

- 10 different variations of the 229



"too many guns".   Pssshhh.... you guys are so wacky
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ken_mays:



Originally Posted By TheJeanyus:


Originally Posted By Miami_JBT:

The Gun of the week sales plan doesn't help either.[/span]


This is my only problem with Sig.  They have too many guns in their catalog and a lot of it seems redundant to me.  Of course, Kimber is the same way, so I guess it makes sense...




I wouldn't call



- 43 different variations of the 1911

- 21 different variations of the 226

- 24 different variations of the 220

- 10 different variations of the 229



"too many guns".   Pssshhh.... you guys are so wacky
Funny thing, when S&W was doing the gun a week. Everyone thought they were crazy. But they actually made different models. Different frames of either aluminum, steel, or scandium. A shit ton of different calibers; 9mm, .40 S&W, 10mm, .45 ACP, even .356 TSW. Different controls; DA/SA, DAO, SAO, and a variation in slide vs frame mounted decockers and decocker/safeties.

 



Also a huge variation of frame sizes and finishes.




Sig just basically does the same gun and change color and grips.
Link Posted: 2/23/2016 9:21:07 PM EDT
My 2014 MK25-D has been flawless.
Link Posted: 2/23/2016 11:14:48 PM EDT
I have 4 SIG pistols; a 229 and 226 in .40S&W and an SP2022 and 320 in 9mm. No problems with any of them. I know four people with M400 rifles and another guy with a 556. No problems with those either.
Link Posted: 2/23/2016 11:19:05 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Zebulon_Batty:
I have 4 SIG pistols; a 229 and 226 in .40S&W and an SP2022 and 320 in 9mm. No problems with any of them. I know four people with M400 rifles and another guy with a 556. No problems with those either.
View Quote


I finally came to terms with the fact that I don't get along with the traditional P-series pistols.   I think my only SIG doublestacks right now are a P320 and an X5.   I do have multiple 556s, however, and I have yet to have a problem with any of 'em.
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