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Posted: 11/7/2008 2:55:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/15/2008 2:11:39 PM EDT by Frag]
We bought a NEW carry P239. The barrel had, what I consider, too much "smile" for a brand new gun. The slide had unfinished spots on the inside where you can see the machine marks from production. I called Sig's customer service and a guy named John answered the phone, I explained what happened and he said to send him some photos of it. Unfortunately the cell phone dropped the call, he took my number down but never called me back. 30min later I got the pictures taken and called back and another guy answered the phone. I had to explain everything again and right of the bat he starts with "finish is not a warranty issue" then he adds "we are not going to bring the gun here and re-finish it for you". All I heard for the next 7min was what they are NOT going to do for me. I tried to explain that the finish is missing not only in the two spots where the robot grips onto the slide as it applies the finish but also in another larger area. He went right back to "finish is not a warranty issue" and “does not affect function or accuracy” and on and on with what they are not going to do for me. This conversation was very discouraging since we paid top dollar for this pistol.

I personally do not think a pistol should be sold with missing finish on it and that many marks on the barrel. I've owned plenty of pistols and none were missing finish because "...the robot has to grab the slide as it applies the finish..." They need to get a new robot. Have a look at these pictures and let me know if you think this is the way a New Gun should look? Especially one that is in the $800 category.

I ask this because the guys at Sig Sauer customer service are trying to pass this all as normal. Maybe I’m asking too much out of a brand new 800 dollar gun from Sig Sauer.













Link Posted: 11/7/2008 3:13:06 PM EDT
I think you're being WAY too anal, especially for a CCW piece.

The wear on the barrel may have come from a good functions firing at the factory.  The other "finish" issues on the INSIDE of the slide are a non-issue.

The CSR might have been an ass and not handled the call properly, but I think your SIG is fine.
Link Posted: 11/7/2008 3:23:27 PM EDT
Maybe you're right. I just think a new gun should leave the factory in "finished" condition.
Link Posted: 11/7/2008 3:49:44 PM EDT
That is strange. I have never had a brand new Sig with anything that looks remotely like what yours does. That seems like a lot of wear for just factory test firing.
Link Posted: 11/7/2008 4:19:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/7/2008 4:21:58 PM EDT by Rabon]
I have been spending a lot of time in the handgun sections as I have been wanting to try a Sig or an HK. I noticed in the Sig sction a lot of people seem to have issues with the newer Sigs and they also seem to have issues with Sigs Customer Service, in the H&K section nothing much happens but the autopistols seem to work and H&K hates you but thats OK if their guns don't break and I don't have to use their Customer Service I don't care. So I eliminated Sig and will try an H&K.
The point being their rep is sending buyers elsewhere.
Link Posted: 11/7/2008 4:36:22 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Rabon:
I have been spending a lot of time in the handgun sections as I have been wanting to try a Sig or an HK. I noticed in the Sig sction a lot of people seem to have issues with the newer Sigs and they also seem to have issues with Sigs Customer Service, in the H&K section nothing much happens but the autopistols seem to work and H&K hates you but thats OK if their guns don't break and I don't have to use their Customer Service I don't care. So I eliminated Sig and will try an H&K.
The point being their rep is sending buyers elsewhere.


Sig Sauer's customer service seem to have a certain negativity in their voice. I didn't get to finish my explanation and he started with "finish is not a warranty issue" and went on to what they are NOT going to do for me. NO KIDDING, it's not that the finish came off on its own IT WAS NEVER PUT ON. I didn’t even get a chance to ask for anything.

Bottom line is that the finish is missing. It's a none issue to some but when a customer calls and explains you would think a company like Sig Sauer would be able to fix the issue and keep a customer.

As for the barrel, heck I have an XD-9 with over 1000 rounds down the barrel with less smile markings on it.

This was the first, the last and the only Sig I'm ever going to buy.

Link Posted: 11/7/2008 5:21:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/8/2008 9:17:53 PM EDT by Chris530]
Frag,

My 220 barrel looks similar to yours though not as bad.  When I had my HK some years ago after putting a couple hundred or so rounds through it, it had a similar appearance.  I do find the somewhat unfinished slide unsettling as well.

Well I agree that CS shouldn't treat people like dirt understand from their perspective the volume of calls they receive.  You get many people who complain about the slightest thing to sometimes the dumbest shit imaginable.  Case in point, two years ago I listened to one of the CS guys at the company I worked at literally tell the guy that bypassing all of the safety features, etc. would not only violate the law but would potentially kill him (it sounded like the person wanted to bypass breakers for a 220 line and a few other items and he would not give up).  If you're still no comfortable with it, I'd specifically ask to speak with John again or just go ahead and email the photos to Sig.

With all that said, I would be curious as to how Sig tests its firearms.
Link Posted: 11/7/2008 5:29:25 PM EDT
I agree with the quality of Sigs customer service declining.  After having several issues with my P229 and the 556, I will never consider a SIG again.  The decocker on my P229 tore into the frame bar and the trigger cut a notch into the frame.  SIG CS rudely stated this was normal.  Sure seems like poor fit and finish issues to me.  The 556 was sent back 3 times to fix issues.  Roll pin falling out from under the piston assembly, canted rail, rusting upper receiver.  One time they even returned the 556 with broken forearm pins from when they reassembled it.  No more patience for SIGS crappy service and products.  
Link Posted: 11/7/2008 6:06:52 PM EDT
I have to say your Sig looks like one that has had a few mags run through it.  My 226 had almost exactly the same finish wear after firing.

I think your dealer is suspect.
Link Posted: 11/7/2008 7:31:52 PM EDT
The customer service over at sig is horriable. I talkes to some one a few weeks ago about some issues with my sig p226 and the guy was a total ass hole I will never buy a nother sig again. Smith&wesson and Beretta have  awsom customer service, Bolth beretta and S&W have gone out of the way when I have called them.
Link Posted: 11/7/2008 7:35:34 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Frag:
We bought a NEW carry P239. The barrel had, what I consider, too much "smile" for a brand new gun. The slide had unfinished spots on the inside where you can see the machine marks from production. I called Sig's customer service and a guy named John answered the phone, I explained what happened and he said to send him some photos of it. Unfortunately the cell phone dropped the call, he took my number down but never called me back. 30min later I got the pictures taken and called back and another guy answered the phone. I had to explain everything again and right of the bat he starts with "finish is not a warranty issue" then he adds "we are not going to bring the gun here and re-finish it for you". All I heard for the next 7min was what they are NOT going to do for me. I tried to explain that the finish is missing not only in the two spots where the robot grips onto the slide as it applies the finish but also in another larger area. He went right back to "finish is not a warranty issue" and “does not affect function or accuracy” and on and on with what they are not going to do for me. This conversation was very discouraging since we paid top dollar for this pistol.

I personally do not think a pistol should be sold with missing finish on it and that many marks on the barrel. I've owned plenty of pistols and none were missing finish because "...the robot has to grab the slide as it applies the finish..." They need to get a new robot. Have a look at these pictures and let me know if you think this is the way a New Gun should look? Especially one that is in the $800 category.

I ask this because the guys at Sig Sauer customer service are trying to pass this all as normal. Maybe I’m asking too much out of a brand new 800 dollar gun from Sig Sauer.

http://xs233.xs.to/xs233/08455/sig.p239.01799.jpg

http://xs233.xs.to/xs233/08455/sig.p239.02387.jpg

http://xs233.xs.to/xs233/08455/sig.p239.03617.jpg

http://xs233.xs.to/xs233/08455/sig.p239.07669.jpg

http://xs233.xs.to/xs233/08455/sig.p239.08402.jpg





due to the finish wear, i'd say that that is NOT indicative of a NIB, factory gun...

either: someone at SIG f-ed up the finish process; accellerated finish wear due to excessive rubbing of rough metals; the firearm had been shot previously A LOT

Link Posted: 11/7/2008 9:33:04 PM EDT
Originally Posted By FreeAmerican:
<snip>I think your dealer is suspect.


In my opinion, I feel the same way.  The wear on the gun is more than what I found on my Sig Sauer pistols when they were new out of the box.  The missing finish on the inside of the slide shows someone was sleeping the QC department.  Call the first CS rep John back and see if he will be more considerate to the issues the pistol has.  Also, maybe your dealer could help you with getting Sig Sauer CS to do something to resolve this issue.  Good luck.

BTW, I did call and had some service done to one of my Sig Sauer pistols.  I never had a problem with how the CS rep handled my order and I was satisfied with the end results.
Link Posted: 11/8/2008 12:15:46 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/8/2008 12:16:17 AM EDT by Hero]
Originally Posted By ALPHAGHOST:
snip... the firearm had been shot previously A LOT




That's what I was thinking regarding the barrel.
Link Posted: 11/8/2008 5:29:21 AM EDT
I had a P245 that would fail to return to battery about 50% of the time.  I sent it back to the factory, and they replaced the extractor.  It failed to return to battery about 25% of the time, so it went back.  They replaced the extractor again, and replaced the recoil spring.  It failed to return to battery about twice out of 100 rounds.

The Sig CS rep told me that 98% reliability was within their standards, and that they wouldn't perform warranty work on it again.





Don't even get me started on the bullshit they gave me with my GSR.  



You can count me in as a former customer who will NEVER buy another SigArms product.












**most of the reports I've heard say that the quality of service you get depends entirely upon who you talk to.  Victoria is the person to ask for––don't talk to anyone else unless you want to pay shipping or get a big run-around.
Link Posted: 11/8/2008 7:05:17 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/8/2008 7:05:53 AM EDT by Stasher1]
Originally Posted By ALPHAGHOST:

due to the finish wear, i'd say that that is NOT indicative of a NIB, factory gun...

either: someone at SIG f-ed up the finish process; accellerated finish wear due to excessive rubbing of rough metals; the firearm had been shot previously A LOT




+1

My 239 has a couple hundred rounds thru it and it doesn't have that much wear on the barrel.
Link Posted: 11/8/2008 2:55:06 PM EDT
My surplus P6 with a build date of 5/92 doesnt have that much wear on the barrel.
Link Posted: 11/8/2008 6:18:20 PM EDT
Once again, it shows why I have little to no interest in buying "new" SIGs.

I do really like SIGs, but the older models suffered a lot less from QC problems, and I find the balance of the older stamped slides far superior to the current milled slides.

Now, as to the specific items in question:

- There is absolutely no excuse for the problems inside the slide. That's ridiculous. I have next to no wear on the inside of my 226 slide apart from the normal spots - namely, the portion right in front of the ejection port (where the barrel hood rubs during cycling) and along the rear "cocking way", where the slide contacts the hammer during cycling.

- The barrel *may* be explained by repeated slide cycling by hand - if you purchased this "new" from a stocked gun counter, and not as an order or as a truly-NIB pulled from the back, then such dry-cycling by hand is to be expected. I know that barrels with certain surface treatments develop visible wear very quickly, but then seem to stabilize. The CZ barrels tend to do this; it's possible that current-production SIGs may exhibit similar behavior. FWIW, though, my 226 barrel looks about the same, and it's certainly far from new.

For the record, my SIG 226 is a pre-U150000-serial West German gun, from the "Tysons Corner" import era. Both the original owner and myself (2nd owner) have put a good number of rounds though its lifetime.
Link Posted: 11/8/2008 6:36:39 PM EDT
The outside of the barrel has waaaaaaaaaaay too much wear to be straight from the factory with only 1-2 rounds of test firing.
Link Posted: 11/8/2008 7:12:06 PM EDT
Originally Posted By FreeAmerican:
I have to say your Sig looks like one that has had a few mags run through it.  My 226 had almost exactly the same finish wear after firing.

I think your dealer is suspect.


Agreed.

Link Posted: 11/9/2008 3:09:14 AM EDT
I think they have a few people from kimber their now . Its not the sig that it use to be.
Link Posted: 11/9/2008 3:24:32 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/9/2008 4:30:22 AM EDT by army_eod]
I just picked up a new 220 Match.  I have to say that it shoots great.  I did have an issue with the adjustable rear sight.  The elevation adjustment was too tight and could not be adjusted until I drifted the pin out of the front and jiggled and lubed the mechanism.  Now it is fine.  But I should not have had that problem.

I will take some pics of the bbl.  It does seem to have major wear marks on the outside of the bbl.  Most have been incurred since I fired it.  So far I only have 100 rnds down the pipe.  But the wear is odd.  Looks much like the wear in the pics by the OP.

Customer service.  Best I have seen is Springfield.

Never had to use any Customer Service yet.  But if there is an issue with my new Sig, I will try them out.


I have a used Sig 226 which again is a great shooter.  Has some of the bbl wear.
Link Posted: 11/9/2008 3:54:32 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/9/2008 3:54:56 AM EDT by rocko]
New management at Sig in the US (can't call them Sigarms anymore, I guess) is driving the company into the ground - both in terms of quality, CS, and just garbage they are putting out lately.   I had an issue with my P226 Tactical I bought about 18 months ago, there was a high spot on the slide (looks like a milling operation was missed) which more or less dug a shallow gouge into barrel exterior near the breech after the first range session.   Long hold times and it took lots of convincing to even get them to agree to look at it.  

Sent them the top end in and they removed the high spot in the slide, polished out the gouge (i.e., removed more material where it shouldn't really have been removed in the first place) and put a bit of cold blue where they did work on both pieces.   Yeah, more or less just cosmetic in both places, but for something that I should never have to have dealt with on a new, expensive, pistol in the first place, I'd have thought they would have refinished it, because of course the cold blue is mostly gone now.

But the best is the garbage they are putting the Sig name on nowadays.   They're attempting to pawn off this cheap Chinese clone of the Aimpoint Micro (in concept, even if cosmetically different enough to avoid legal issues)  for $430 that one can get for around $60 elsewhere.

Link Posted: 11/9/2008 4:28:09 AM EDT
Shit...just bought two sigs.  A new 220 and used 226.  

Guess I should trade the POS.  

The red dot sight issue you raised here really sucks.

If Sig is really down the shitter, I am not happy.

Who took them over???
Link Posted: 11/9/2008 4:37:49 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/9/2008 4:49:31 AM EDT by army_eod]
Here are the pics of my new 220 with 100 rnds down the pipe.

I am pissed to hear that Sig has gone down the shitter.  Who the hell bought the company?

May have to dump my Sigs for???????



Link Posted: 11/9/2008 4:41:01 AM EDT
Another question.  When did Sig go down the shitter.

I have the 226 and it was built in 2004.  Were they shit then?

The 226 bbl looks like my 220.  But both guns are great shooters.
Link Posted: 11/9/2008 6:28:25 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/9/2008 6:28:56 AM EDT by Marksman14]
Well, BSheppard and myself can only warn you guys so many times....but here it is again, forgive the redundancy.

Sig

Fucking

Sucks.
Link Posted: 11/9/2008 12:01:10 PM EDT
Actually I was at the range again with the 220 Match.  The bbl is actually very smooth and it just looks crappy.

It shoots like a champ.
Link Posted: 11/9/2008 2:24:19 PM EDT
I hear what you are saying but I don't feel the same way.  That sort of thing would not bother me.
Link Posted: 11/9/2008 4:37:58 PM EDT
My P229 with 1000 rounds down the pipe does not look as bad as that NEW one you have....

somebody is yanking your chain...either your dealer or Sig.....

that is NOT....and i mean N-O-T a "new" barrel......and i would not stop until it was resolved either by Sig or the dealer
Link Posted: 11/10/2008 4:45:42 PM EDT
Well I left two voice messages with John and one with Victoria this morning and nothing yet.

BTW, I read their warranty covers workmanship and I would say the missing finish on the slide should be covered under that at the least, not to mention the marks on the barrel.

LIMITED LIFETIME WARRANTY

 SIG SAUER warrants that the enclosed firearm was originally manufactured free of defects in material, workmanship and mechanical function. For the lifetime of the original purchaser, SIG SAUER agrees to correct any defect in the firearm for the original purchaser by repair, adjustment or replacement, at SIG SAUER' option, with the same or comparable quality components (or by replacing the firearms at SIG SAUER' option); provided, however, that the firearm is returned unloaded and freight prepaid to SIG SAUER at 18 Industrial Drive, Exeter, NH 03833.

This limited warranty is null and void if the firearm has been misused, damaged (by accident or otherwise), fired with handloaded, reloaded or improper ammunition, fired with an obstruction in the barrel, damaged through failure to provide reasonable and necessary maintenance as described in the manual accompanying the firearm, or if unauthorized repair or any alteration, including of a cosmetic nature, has been performed on the firearm. This limited warranty does not apply to normal wear and tear of any parts.

Subject to the foregoing, this limited warranty confers the right to have the covered firearm or its parts repaired, adjusted or replaced exclusively upon the original purchaser, which right is not transferable to any other person. No implied warranties of any kind are made herein and this warranty does not apply to any accessory items attached or appurtenant to the firearm.

In no event shall SIG SAUER be liable for any incidental or consequential damages arising from or in connection with this limited warranty.


Link Posted: 11/10/2008 4:49:38 PM EDT
ANybody here got a Sig220 Match....I was getting one- til now...got me thinking![>:/]
Link Posted: 11/10/2008 5:00:35 PM EDT
the only problem I have had with a sig was a broken spring on a factory reconditioned pistol and one quick call to sig resulted in a whole spring it arrival the next day
Link Posted: 11/10/2008 7:32:59 PM EDT
Originally Posted By coldair:
the only problem I have had with a sig was a broken spring on a factory reconditioned pistol and one quick call to sig resulted in a whole spring it arrival the next day


They gave you the WHOLE spring?!  

I couldn't resist...
Link Posted: 11/10/2008 7:41:13 PM EDT
Originally Posted By army_eod:
Another question.  When did Sig go down the shitter.

I have the 226 and it was built in 2004.  Were they shit then?

The 226 bbl looks like my 220.  But both guns are great shooters.


Pretty much when the new CEO took over it seems.

Safe bet is to go with the older West German manufactured guns. It's all I'll mess with now. I haven't had a problem with their CS, but I've never had to use them. And I pretty much only buy used guns.

But after enough reading, I can't see spending that much money on them.

How a company that made possibly the finest production gun ever (Sig P210) to the poor quality stuff they have out now boggles the mind.
Link Posted: 11/11/2008 6:13:50 AM EDT
I recommend looking a a couple of other P239s and see how those barrels look.

Also, if you were shooting +Ps, that may be responsible for excessive finish wear on the barrel.

As for the slide, I wouldn't even worry about it...it's stainless.

That's too bad that Sig is giving folks the run-around.  I was looking into getting one someday.  I'm really happy with my G23, G21 (Robar grip), and HK USPC 45, but need an 9mm and was thinking about trying a SIG P239 or P226.
Link Posted: 11/11/2008 2:41:16 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Slice:
...Also, if you were shooting +Ps, that may be responsible for excessive finish wear on the barrel.

Brand New Gun = Never fired by me (the customer), not even one round. As for the slide finish and the wear marks I just find it poor workmanship in a 800 dollar gun. You are "Suppose" to get what you pay for right?
Link Posted: 11/11/2008 7:24:24 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Slice:
I recommend looking a a couple of other P239s and see how those barrels look.




Here is my P239 it's a .357sig. I don't have a round count as I bought it used. I have some were around 1000 rounds fired. These pictures aren't that great if you want some better ones I can take them later. Here is the link the the Album.








Link Posted: 11/13/2008 2:03:24 PM EDT
I wish mine looked so nice. Can't believe you have a 1000 rounds through.
Link Posted: 11/13/2008 4:12:54 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Frag:
I wish mine looked so nice. Can't believe you have a 1000 rounds through.


Have you tried contacting them again lately?
Link Posted: 11/13/2008 6:54:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/13/2008 6:55:26 PM EDT by Frag]
Yeah, 3 messages with Victoria and one with John... Nothing yet.

ETA: Make that two with John.
Link Posted: 11/14/2008 8:02:32 AM EDT
What does the top of the chamber look like that contacts the underside of the top of the slide?

If this gun was sitting in your dealers showcase for a while it's possible that 100 different people looked at it, racked the slide and fiddled with it just like gun guys do in the gun shop.  Maybe that has something to do with the wear on the barrel.  That has nothing to do with the missing finish on the inside of the slide though.
Link Posted: 11/15/2008 11:58:23 AM EDT
Update: Friday, after waiting in the phone queue for a while I got through to John. I asked why I didn't get a call back from either him or Victoria so he explained that it's been a crazy week for them. I can completely understand that. I explained what happened with the CS rep who spent 7-10min telling me what they are NOT going to do for me and John actually apologized for that. I was pleasantly surprised and felt a lot better about things. So I sent John the pictures and he immediately sent me a shipping label to return the pistol for review by their gunsmiths.

I wanted to set the record straight and make sure everyone knows that John @ Sig was very helpful after seeing the pictures.

I'll send the pistol in and wait to see what they say when they see it. John is confident that they will replace the slide and barrel. Let hope he is right.

I'll update when I know more...

Link Posted: 11/15/2008 5:12:17 PM EDT
Thanks Frag for the update.  Looks like things may go the right direction for you and you pistol.  I hope so.  I've only had good results in dealing with Sig Sauer and I hope that it will only get better in time with the rest of the customers that require their consideration, time, and effort.  Good luck.
Link Posted: 11/16/2008 6:23:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/16/2008 7:35:29 PM EDT by Dirknar]
Originally Posted By army_eod:
Another question.  When did Sig go down the shitter.

I have the 226 and it was built in 2004.  Were they shit then?

The 226 bbl looks like my 220.  But both guns are great shooters.

Originally Posted By army_eod:
Here are the pics of my new 220 with 100 rnds down the pipe.

I am pissed to hear that Sig has gone down the shitter.  Who the hell bought the company?

May have to dump my Sigs for???????





well since both guns are great shooters, and somebody said Sig sucks on the internet, I woould throw those newly found piles of crap in the garbage...????

Link Posted: 11/17/2008 3:25:11 PM EDT
hey, SIG is awesome, for the guys in blue, they offer factory direct discounts that NO OTHER company offers.

Can any other company does this???

No.

SIG is top of the line in my book.  Helping the guys in blue.
Link Posted: 11/18/2008 1:56:55 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/18/2008 1:58:47 AM EDT by Tomislav]
Originally Posted By Crito:
hey, SIG is awesome, for the guys in blue, they offer factory direct discounts that NO OTHER company offers.

Can any other company does this???

No.

SIG is top of the line in my book.  Helping the guys in blue.



So Glock doesn't offer LEO discounts on Sigs? Who woulda thunk it...

Glock (and most other manufacturers) do offer LEO discounts, you know.
Link Posted: 11/18/2008 10:00:52 AM EDT
I have seen rebates. like mail in rebates.

Glock offer their products to LEOs and First responders at or below dealer cost?
I have been to their website but never seen that part of the website.


Link Posted: 11/18/2008 12:33:39 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Crito:
I have seen rebates. like mail in rebates.

Glock offer their products to LEOs and First responders at or below dealer cost?
I have been to their website but never seen that part of the website.





The price on 'blue label' Glocks is generally about $100 less then the same 'red label' model. (And they throw in an extra magazine.)
Link Posted: 11/18/2008 6:45:45 PM EDT
only 100 dollars.... oh wait a minute for those cheap (price wise) things..  I guess thats a good deal.  
Link Posted: 11/19/2008 1:34:22 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/19/2008 1:36:19 AM EDT by XTrooper]
The moral of this story is to inspect the "new" pistol you're purchasing before you leave the store with it. Even a cursory inspection would have revealed the wear on the barrel end. If a dealer had tried to sell me that for new, I'd have told him to shove it where the sun don't shine.
Link Posted: 11/19/2008 4:17:02 PM EDT
Originally Posted By XTrooper:
The moral of this story is to inspect the "new" pistol you're purchasing before you leave the store with it. Even a cursory inspection would have revealed the wear on the barrel end. If a dealer had tried to sell me that for new, I'd have told him to shove it where the sun don't shine.


Only problem with that scenario would be, if the gun in question was bought online and transferred to your local FFL dealer. Then you, the buyer, are stuck eating the extra transfer fee if you send it back. The only other option would be to send it in for warranty work, and not spend the extra $$$.
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