Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
BCM
Member Login

Site Notices
Arrow Left Previous Page
Page / 2
Posted: 6/22/2015 10:34:08 PM EDT
I have a newly purchased Kimber Custom TLE ll 1911 that I have just finished putting about 1000 rounds through over the course of a few months. All rounds fired were Winchester white box 230 gr FMJs. I had 6 failures during that round count (all fail to feed). Gun was run wet and cleaned between firings of about 100 rounds each.

I guess I'm spoiled with the Glocks and Sigs I've carried at work - they run flawlessly.

That being said, what do you consider to be an acceptble failure/stoppage rate in a 1911 carry pistol?

Maybe expected rate of failure would be a more appropriate way to put it.

Finally, this is not a troll thread.

Thoughts?

ETA

I want to love this gun and will carry it when I hunt regardless. I guess I'm hoping it will get better as it accumulates a round count.

ETA # 2

Mags used were Wilson combat 47CB magazines. Mags were rotated with no one having more failures than any other.
Link Posted: 6/22/2015 10:38:42 PM EDT
I expect them to work like my glocks, cz's or any other handgun for that matter.  If my gun is having issues, I get em fixed or ditch the gun if it keeps failing.  

I've owned 4 1911 pistols FWIW.  Two didn't work well and I never did trust them so they're gone.  Had an MC Operator that was an excellent gun, but traded it toward a Valor, that has shown itself to perform well.  Though the slide stop sticks out a bit far and I have a tendency to hit it with my support hand thumb and lock the slide open prematurely, but that's an operator issue.  May put a standard GI style SS on it and ditch the thin grips and bushings for standard to help keep my thumb off it.
Link Posted: 6/22/2015 10:49:27 PM EDT
Is this a new pistol or did you buy it used? no failures in 100 round shooting sessions should be expected.

what mags and how are the springs? what type of failures?
Link Posted: 6/22/2015 10:50:24 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Is this a new pistol or did you buy it used?
View Quote


Brand new.
Link Posted: 6/22/2015 10:52:40 PM EDT
Kimber sucks.
Link Posted: 6/22/2015 10:52:47 PM EDT
ditch the factory mags first and go from there.  is it the last round, first round or just random?

And Kimber doesn't suck any worse than the next gun.
Link Posted: 6/22/2015 10:53:51 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
ditch the factory mags first and go from there.  is it the last round, first round or just random?
View Quote

Wilson Combat mags used. Never first round, either middle of mag or last round once or twice. Again, no pattern emerged.

Link Posted: 6/22/2015 10:54:06 PM EDT
All my 1911s go to my smith for smoothing out and Wilson or Tripp mags after their first 200-300 rounds.

Once that process is complete they are (and are expected to be) as reliable as my Glocks and Sigs.

I've had bad experience with Kimber and saw a lot of issues with a group purchased for our SWAT guys years back.

I think any company can build a lemon but excellent results with Colts and Springers modified by my gunsmith.
Link Posted: 6/22/2015 10:55:00 PM EDT
I expect them to run 100% with ball ammo right out of the box. I have several 1911's, mostly Colts and this has always been the case with new guns. Some older guns may need new springs and magazines to function properly.
Link Posted: 6/22/2015 10:55:29 PM EDT
failure to feed as in needs a bump to close the slide or jam up before the round is behind the extractor.
Link Posted: 6/22/2015 11:01:03 PM EDT


My current favorite is a alloy frame 5" Springer with ramped barrel done by Saltzman's Gun Works.
Link Posted: 6/22/2015 11:07:37 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

Wilson Combat mags used. Never first round, either middle of mag or last round once or twice. Again, no pattern emerged.

View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
ditch the factory mags first and go from there.  is it the last round, first round or just random?

Wilson Combat mags used. Never first round, either middle of mag or last round once or twice. Again, no pattern emerged.



Hmm.

I'd consider trying tripp magazines too?

That said what's your ejection pattern like? I'm wondering if this has to do with extractor tension. IIRC that extractor's tension does effect feeding
Link Posted: 6/23/2015 1:18:35 AM EDT
I have put upwards of 3000  230 gr ball rounds through my Springfield Loaded without issue. I have also put about 400 speer gold dots through it. I have never had a failure to feed. I was going to buy a kimber but I heard too many stories like yours.


ETA I use CMC mags.
Link Posted: 6/23/2015 5:18:33 AM EDT
My kimber likes to be run wet you could try more lube while it's so new.  Wwb ammo has given me trouble in the past being out of spec usually too long won't go into battery. Did you eject the rounds and re use the same bullet without any trouble?
Link Posted: 6/23/2015 6:59:23 AM EDT
I've never had one that had that many jams other than a Colt lightweight commander I bought in 2003.

My rate of failure in my Para P14-45 was 5 in 12,500, four ( two from each mag ) due to mag springs in the first 1,000 rounds, and the other due to the recoil spring being purposely pushed well past it change interval at about 10,000. I already had the new spring, was waiting for failure.

The cheap RIA I carry now had a few failures to completely go into battery when it was brand new when I shot some cast lead hand loads that were sized .473+ at the case mouth that were fine in the Para. I only had a few of those left, and set my dies up right and got the case mouth back down to .470.  

Try some Chip McCormick mags and see if that helps. Some will only run certain brand of mags well with certain bullets.

I haven't had that issue with but one and that was my Dan Wesson Pointman Major.

The Colt though, went back to Colt a couple of times, and it wouldn't feed for crap.
Link Posted: 6/23/2015 7:07:36 AM EDT
Have about 6000 rounds on my RIA, only problems have been dead primers. The factory mag is getting a little weak...






Kimber has a "break in period" which is a euphemism  for the gun not being finished from the factory and user induced wear finishing up everything...







Run the dogshit out of it, hand rack the slide a bunch*, and get everything worn in and it should get better.







*New handguns, even just new to me I usually hand operate the slide a hundred or so time keeping it flushed out with clp. Normally I do it as part of manipulation drills like tap rack bangs, or mag reloads using snap caps.
Link Posted: 6/23/2015 7:08:24 AM EDT
Quoted:
I have a newly purchased Kimber Custom TLE ll 1911 that I have just finished putting about 1000 rounds through over the course of a few months. All rounds fired were Winchester white box 230 gr FMJs. I had 6 failures during that round count (all fail to feed). Gun was run wet and cleaned between firings of about 100 rounds each.

I guess I'm spoiled with the Glocks and Sigs I've carried at work - they run flawlessly.

That being said, what do you consider to be an acceptble failure/stoppage rate in a 1911 carry pistol?

Maybe expected rate of failure would be a more appropriate way to put it.

Finally, this is not a troll thread.

Thoughts?.
View Quote


None. You should not worry about whether or not a carry gun is going to work. FWIW : None of my 4 RIA 1911s had any failures within the first couple hundred rounds.

ETA  : I take that back. I got a bad lot of ammo that wouldn't reliably fire even though it had a good primer strike - switched to a different box and I was good to go.
Link Posted: 6/23/2015 7:19:02 AM EDT
I've got 4 Colts.

One had a failure to chamber 30 plus years ago due to a swelled case (taught me to look at the rounds I was shoving into the magazine).

One had never failed (except for tossing the aftermarket front sight off the gunsmith installed for me).

One has never failed.

The only issue with the Series 70 is that it damaged cases when I first got it.  I removed the Commander style ejector someone had put on it and put a heavier recoil spring in it and it does fine now.

About 3 weeks ago we got my old 1911 (Colt made in 1917) out of the safe and put a 100 rounds of mixed 230, 200 and 185 grain ammo through it with no failures at all.  Fed, fired and ejected everything.  Then again, it's pretty well broken in.  Damn those sights are tiny on those things.

Every company makes lemons.  Sometimes you get one.  Sometimes sending it back gets it fixed.  Sometimes it doesn't.
Link Posted: 6/23/2015 7:20:35 AM EDT
1911s can be as reliable as anything else, but not always as they arrive.

I'd recommend going to Bob Londrigan's site (Brazos Custom Guns) and reading the article on extractor tuning.  These mods can help FTF as they ease the resistance the cartridge encounters in its ride up out of the mag and under the extractor hook.

Bob also has a bunch of other great articles there.

I have two of his guns with probably 30,000 rounds through them combined.  Very reliable.
Link Posted: 6/23/2015 8:31:37 AM EDT
I say zero as well. I'm down to just my 2 Colts. But the last 6 1911s all ran flawlessly. 3 Colts, 3 Springers.
Link Posted: 6/23/2015 11:18:48 AM EDT
To my mind the only reason for carrying a gun is your life may depend on having one.  Therefore, the acceptable failure rate to me is zero!  Years ago I had a Para 1440 LDA with internal extractor that would not fully chamber a round,  I adjusted the extractor tension and solved the issue but would not carry it on duty until I'd put 1,000 trouble free rounds through it.
You're using good mags and relatively good ammo (I've never had a problem with Winchester white box or Wilson mags)  My money would be on it having an extractor issue.
I'm not familiar with that model Kimber; does it have an internal or external extractor?
Link Posted: 6/23/2015 11:34:34 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I'm not familiar with that model Kimber; does it have an internal or external extractor?
View Quote


Internal.
Link Posted: 6/23/2015 12:17:45 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Internal.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
I'm not familiar with that model Kimber; does it have an internal or external extractor?


Internal.


Do you know how to test and adjust the extractor?
Link Posted: 6/23/2015 12:19:19 PM EDT
MRBS should be 2k or greater.
Link Posted: 6/23/2015 12:21:46 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Internal.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
I'm not familiar with that model Kimber; does it have an internal or external extractor?


Internal.


Do you know how to test and adjust the extractor?
Link Posted: 6/23/2015 12:52:02 PM EDT
I have a Kimber Eclipse, and it took 2-300 rounds to break in. Once that was done, it has been perfect for the last 12,700 rounds.  At what round count was your last failure?
Link Posted: 6/23/2015 1:47:35 PM EDT
I expect mine to go roughly 1K without failure.

I don't really ever have problems out of my 1911s to be honest
Link Posted: 6/23/2015 2:36:23 PM EDT
I have a the same Kimber haven't had a issue yet and have well over a 1000rds through it.
You may want to try and tune it yourself or take it to someone.
The FTF during a duress situation would make me nervous. IMHO
Link Posted: 6/23/2015 11:50:49 PM EDT
I have a 1918 repro, the Series 70 in my avatar and a Combat Elite.  Several thousand rounds through them and no failures yet.
Link Posted: 6/24/2015 7:08:36 AM EDT
Six rounds per thousand isn't bad for a new gun, especially a Kimber.
Link Posted: 6/24/2015 7:16:03 AM EDT
My 1945 Rem Rand has thousands of rounds through it since I took possession, and probably tens of thousands before I got it. It has yet to fail on me...but it also has damn near AK tolerances so it's to be expected.
Link Posted: 6/24/2015 7:18:11 AM EDT

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Six rounds per thousand isn't bad for a new gun, especially a Kimber.
View Quote
It's pretty bad.

 
Link Posted: 6/24/2015 10:21:02 AM EDT
All of my failures may been ammo related, All ammo related failures have been reloads.
Link Posted: 6/24/2015 2:12:48 PM EDT
The 1911s I've had the most problems with have been kimbers. I've only had one malfunction with one of my trp's and I believe it was how I was manipulating the slide during a reload.
Link Posted: 6/24/2015 2:34:59 PM EDT
Back when I was a 1911 guy I regularly went in excess of 10K consecutive rounds with no stoppages through any one pistol.  And usually half of that without cleaning.

I had two Springfield Customs and two basic Series 80 Colts that went for a combined 100K+ over the course of about 8 years.  I had a few others too that were junkers.  I honestly can not recall any malfunction that was not directly caused by spread feedlips or a worn mag spring.  Those malfunctions were super few and far between as I used to replace mags annually.

Wilson mags are junk.  Period. They may work, but in the grand scheme of things.... Unless you're shooting powder puff wadcutter loads, they suck.
Link Posted: 6/24/2015 4:56:03 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
It's pretty bad.  
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Six rounds per thousand isn't bad for a new gun, especially a Kimber.
It's pretty bad.  




Well, it IS a Kimber, so sending it back would be an exercise in frustration for the OP.
Link Posted: 6/24/2015 9:56:38 PM EDT

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


My kimber likes to be run wet you could try more lube while it's so new.  Wwb ammo has given me trouble in the past being out of spec usually too long won't go into battery. Did you eject the rounds and re use the same bullet without any trouble?
View Quote




Yep, lube.  My RO will stop feeding if the slide and frame rails get dry.  A few drops of motor oil on occasion and no stoppages.



 

Link Posted: 6/24/2015 10:03:55 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Back when I was a 1911 guy I regularly went in excess of 10K consecutive rounds with no stoppages through any one pistol.  And usually half of that without cleaning.

I had two Springfield Customs and two basic Series 80 Colts that went for a combined 100K+ over the course of about 8 years.  I had a few others too that were junkers.  I honestly can not recall any malfunction that was not directly caused by spread feedlips or a worn mag spring.  Those malfunctions were super few and far between as I used to replace mags annually.

Wilson mags are junk.  Period. They may work, but in the grand scheme of things.... Unless you're shooting powder puff wadcutter loads, they suck.
View Quote


Wilson mags are junk? Thats a pretty bold statement. They seem to work fine for me and others that shoot ball 10000+ rounds  and full power defense loads, federal 230g hst and winchester ranger t+P . Could you explain why you think they are junk?
Link Posted: 6/24/2015 10:13:32 PM EDT
I expect my 1911s to be every bit as reliable as the ammunition I shoot through them;  and they are.
Link Posted: 6/24/2015 10:37:01 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Wilson mags are junk? Thats a pretty bold statement. They seem to work fine for me and others that shoot ball 10000+ rounds  and full power defense loads, federal 230g hst and winchester ranger t+P . Could you explain why you think they are junk?
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Back when I was a 1911 guy I regularly went in excess of 10K consecutive rounds with no stoppages through any one pistol.  And usually half of that without cleaning.

I had two Springfield Customs and two basic Series 80 Colts that went for a combined 100K+ over the course of about 8 years.  I had a few others too that were junkers.  I honestly can not recall any malfunction that was not directly caused by spread feedlips or a worn mag spring.  Those malfunctions were super few and far between as I used to replace mags annually.

Wilson mags are junk.  Period. They may work, but in the grand scheme of things.... Unless you're shooting powder puff wadcutter loads, they suck.


Wilson mags are junk? Thats a pretty bold statement. They seem to work fine for me and others that shoot ball 10000+ rounds  and full power defense loads, federal 230g hst and winchester ranger t+P . Could you explain why you think they are junk?



http://www.10-8performance.com/1911-magazines/
Link Posted: 6/24/2015 10:52:49 PM EDT
Thanks I have seen the above 10-8 article before.  They actually recommended wilson etm mags, so again I would ask why wilson mags are junk?
Link Posted: 6/25/2015 3:02:33 AM EDT

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Well, it IS a Kimber, so sending it back would be an exercise in frustration for the OP.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



Quoted:


Quoted:

Six rounds per thousand isn't bad for a new gun, especially a Kimber.
It's pretty bad.  

Well, it IS a Kimber, so sending it back would be an exercise in frustration for the OP.
Yup.

 






IMHO it's why gun shops (at least where I live) are littered with used Kimbers.  Though, to be honest Kimber makes a LOT OF FUCKING 1911's!




Even if they put out the exact same percentage of bad guns as every other manufacturer, they make more guns, so the chances are higher of running across the bum ones.
Link Posted: 6/25/2015 7:52:10 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Thanks I have seen the above 10-8 article before.  They actually recommended wilson etm mags, so again I would ask why wilson mags are junk?
View Quote



Not all Wilson mag models have the issue. Other mags interfere with the slide stop on some guns due to slightly different tolerances on all the related parts. That's why you should try different mags with your particular gun and see what works best, or if you have mags that work, stick with that and buy more.
Link Posted: 6/25/2015 9:23:19 AM EDT
For a  carry gun none is the only number.
Link Posted: 6/25/2015 9:32:11 AM EDT
Pavlovwolf , thanks for your replies and info. I agree with you that you need to find what mags work with your gun. The only issue I have with wilson mags is with the ol 47d being hard to seat when performing an ipsc reload. As far as damaged feedlips I've only experienced this once, could of been caused by repeatedly being dropped on concrete or even being stepped on. A quick call to wilson on Monday resulted in a new etm delivered to my door on Wednesday.  I still would like to know why samuse believes they are junk, and only suitable for powder puff wad cutter loads.
Link Posted: 6/25/2015 1:54:10 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Pavlovwolf , thanks for your replies and info. I agree with you that you need to find what mags work with your gun. The only issue I have with wilson mags is with the ol 47d being hard to seat when performing an ipsc reload. As far as damaged feedlips I've only experienced this once, could of been caused by repeatedly being dropped on concrete or even being stepped on. A quick call to wilson on Monday resulted in a new etm delivered to my door on Wednesday.  I still would like to know why samuse believes they are junk, and only suitable for powder puff wad cutter loads.
View Quote


They're not controlled feed mags. The 1911 was designed as a controlled feed gun, and Wilson mags push feed. Another issue they can have is breaking extended ejectors, because the mag sits pretty high.

The push feeding can also damage extractors on certain guns because the extractor will snap over the case rim rather than having the case rim slide up from under it like it's supposed to.

This is how I understand it.
Link Posted: 6/25/2015 8:18:49 PM EDT
I just put in a Wolff recoil spring, maybe it will help.

Supposed to change them @ 500 rounds, right?

Worst case I'm out a few bucks.
Link Posted: 6/25/2015 9:32:16 PM EDT
Just IMO, 99% of the FTF issues I've had with 1911's comes back to mags.  The other 1% comes from over lubing the pistol.



I've had issues with almost all mags except Wilson ETM's and Tripp Cobras.





Again, just my experience.
Link Posted: 6/25/2015 9:33:37 PM EDT

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


I just put in a Wolff recoil spring, maybe it will help.



Supposed to change them @ 500 rounds, right?



Worst case I'm out a few bucks.
View Quote




Depends on the recoil spring.



Wolff is a good choice, that is what I run.
 
Link Posted: 6/25/2015 9:34:49 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I just put in a Wolff recoil spring, maybe it will help.

Supposed to change them @ 500 rounds, right?

Worst case I'm out a few bucks.
View Quote


I used to go 5K on a Wolff 16lb spring and it was still fine then.  I changed 'em as a preventive measure, but in all reality, a Wolff recoil spring will likely last in excess of 10K rounds.
Link Posted: 6/25/2015 9:40:47 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Thanks I have seen the above 10-8 article before.  They actually recommended wilson etm mags, so again I would ask why wilson mags are junk?
View Quote


Because the feedlips spread way too soon, and they have weak springs that let the mag inertia feed.

Damn near every single person who complains of 'Failure to Return to Battery' malfunctions, and/or extractors 'losing tension', are using Wilson mags.  

I've been down that road too many times with too many people to even have a shred of hesitation when I say Wilson mags are junk.  Even the ETMs have weak springs that don't last any longer than the 47D springs.  Seen that first hand too.  

Another thing that exacerbates the problem is people going with 17 & 19lb mainsprings in hopes of lightening the trigger pull.  It needs a 23lb to keep the slide velocity in check.  
Arrow Left Previous Page
Page / 2
An error occurred on the server when processing the URL. Please contact the system administrator.

If you are the system administrator please click here to find out more about this error.