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Posted: 4/4/2007 6:53:21 AM EDT
I have been watching the news and it seems lately there have been a couple of colleges who have had individuals running through the campus with a gun and/or shooting another person. I know in the State of Florida we are not allowed to carry on any school grounds or college not related to firearms. Let’s just say I happened to be carrying at school and someone runs into the classroom and starts shooting. I draw my handgun and kill him. Would I get in serious trouble for stopping a gun whaling mad man?
Link Posted: 4/4/2007 7:01:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/4/2007 7:01:34 AM EDT by topgunpilot20]

Originally Posted By snapahed:
Would I get in serious trouble . . .


Better than being dead.
Link Posted: 4/4/2007 7:07:54 AM EDT
UVA has the same dumb rule, and recently there has been a rash of brazen daylight armed robberies and slightly less recently a serial rapist.

I'm not sure what the rule is at your school, but here, its not actually illegal to carry on a college campus other then at VCU, (which is specifically named in the law), its just against university rules. The worst thing they can do is expel you, and I'd rather be expelled then dead.

A girl I had class with used to open carry a USP ALL THE TIME because she had been sexually assaulted several years before. She said that the university cops would hassle her, but not actually do anything about it. YMMV
Link Posted: 4/4/2007 7:13:34 AM EDT
In ohio, all college campuses are "FORBIDDEN" places, which means a felony if caught. I doubt you would do any jail time in this circumstance, but you would lose your CCW permit and all of your guns.
Link Posted: 4/4/2007 7:25:23 AM EDT

Originally Posted By thinkat:
In ohio, all college campuses are "FORBIDDEN" places, which means a felony if caught.


+1

Because of that, I would draw and fire ONLY if I or one of mine was under immediate threat. If others were being gunned down, I would have to haul ass the other way.

The morally right thing to do is to engage if at all possible once your own are safe. But I am NOT about to ruin my future and that of my family with a felony conviction just because the State of Ohio is full of dumbass, pussy hoplophobes.

The blood of those who die is on the hands of the Ohio General Assembly, not mine.
Link Posted: 4/4/2007 12:26:03 PM EDT
That actually happened, at the Appalachian Law School. There were no legal repercussions for the people who responded with guns, and the news reports went out of their way not to mention it. (Had you ever heard about it?)

http://johnrlott.tripod.com/postsbyday/topic-appalachianlawschool.html

Same thing with the Pearl, Mississippi high school shooting. One of the teachers stopped the shooter by getting a gun from his car. That was a federal felony, Gun Free School Zones Act, but nobody said two words about it. If they tried to prosecute the teacher, then there might be a groundswell of protest, and then the sheep might start to question the wisdom of the law. So far, our masters have preferred to let that sleeping dog lie.
Link Posted: 4/4/2007 8:17:27 PM EDT
I go to KSU in GA and with a permit it is illegal to carry even in your vehicle let alone on your person. Legislators need to realize that cops do not stop crime, they just investigate the crime after the fact. No campus police that I know of is really equipped for a Columbine type of attack. I would like to carry on campus but choose not to break the law.
Link Posted: 4/5/2007 9:16:23 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Milquetoast:
That was a federal felony, Gun Free School Zones Act, but nobody said two words about it.


The backbone of that law was overturned....... the feds have no regulation in the location of school zones, so they said it was a state issue. Just a lil' FYI
Link Posted: 4/5/2007 10:18:08 AM EDT

Originally Posted By RDP:

Originally Posted By Milquetoast:
That was a federal felony, Gun Free School Zones Act, but nobody said two words about it.


The backbone of that law was overturned....... the feds have no regulation in the location of school zones, so they said it was a state issue. Just a lil' FYI


Yes, but I believe Congress passed another version of the same thing, with about twenty words changed, and that one has yet to be struck down in court. Yes, it could be done, but the guy who has to get it struck down is going to go broke doing it.
Link Posted: 4/5/2007 10:39:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/5/2007 10:40:39 AM EDT by ADaughen]

Originally Posted By JER:

Originally Posted By thinkat:
In ohio, all college campuses are "FORBIDDEN" places, which means a felony if caught.


+1

Because of that, I would draw and fire ONLY if I or one of mine was under immediate threat. If others were being gunned down, I would have to haul ass the other way.

The morally right thing to do is to engage if at all possible once your own are safe. But I am NOT about to ruin my future and that of my family with a felony conviction just because the State of Ohio is full of dumbass, pussy hoplophobes.

The blood of those who die is on the hands of the Ohio General Assembly, not mine.


"Officer, I heard the shooting and went to my car. I didn't know where my family was so, after I called 911, I got my gun from the lock box and went back for them (the family)."
Link Posted: 4/9/2007 12:41:54 AM EDT
If I remember correctly, In Florida, you can carry on a college campus of you are a student there. There is no carry at any time on public school grounds. All me carry law paperwork is boxed up(moving). I will look it up and let you know for sure.
Link Posted: 4/9/2007 4:26:24 PM EDT
Your choice, but I choose to be alive over any other option. If that means I have to hire a good lawyer and fight a ridiculous state government than I will do so.
Link Posted: 4/9/2007 5:18:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/9/2007 5:19:40 PM EDT by Milquetoast]


"Officer, I heard the shooting and went to my car. I didn't know where my family was so, after I called 911, I got my gun from the lock box and went back for them (the family)."


No doubt the surveillance video-camera you didn't notice, and the witnesses you didn't notice, will back up that story, and the prosecutor won't add on obstruction of justice charges.

Here's another option for what to say to the police officer: "___________"
(Tip: Hold your ear close to the quotation marks to hear what it sounds like.)
Link Posted: 4/11/2007 12:15:56 PM EDT
height=8
Originally Posted By RomeoDeltaEcho:
If I remember correctly, In Florida, you can carry on a college campus of you are a student there. There is no carry at any time on public school grounds. All me carry law paperwork is boxed up(moving). I will look it up and let you know for sure. I'm at work and I cant look it up because its blocked but I'm pretty sure you can carry concealed if its not a firearm and you must be a registered student or faculty...not sure if the college can make its own rules or not about carrying
Link Posted: 4/11/2007 1:52:26 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/12/2007 3:33:36 PM EDT
the whole issue sucks. the reason for not allowing anyone to carry is they are trying to promote a "safe" environment on campus. to anti-gun liberals, to ignorant sheep, and to the uninformed or mis-informed, keeping "guns off campus" means a "safe environment"... however, if someone (criminal, who obtained their firearm illegally) opens up in a campus buliding... 1) makes all guns and gun owners look bad because someone killed people in a campus building with a gun... ... 2) reinforces their ass backwards rules on keeping guns off campus...

turn it around and a student who is legally allowed to carry shoots the person before he is able to kill anyone... he's a hero. if he is legally allowed to carry in the state, but the school doesn't allow, and the same scenario is played out...what happens? is he still expelled from school because he broke the school policy, or do they cut him a break because he happened to save the lives of 30-100 of his classmates? does he face legal ramifications with the state for carrying in the school.

it all so ass backwards... fuckin liberals.
Link Posted: 4/12/2007 7:24:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/12/2007 7:25:39 PM EDT by ADaughen]

Originally Posted By Milquetoast:


"Officer, I heard the shooting and went to my car. I didn't know where my family was so, after I called 911, I got my gun from the lock box and went back for them (the family)."


No doubt the surveillance video-camera you didn't notice, and the witnesses you didn't notice, will back up that story, and the prosecutor won't add on obstruction of justice charges.

Here's another option for what to say to the police officer: "___________"
(Tip: Hold your ear close to the quotation marks to hear what it sounds like.)



State of Ohio says you can have them locked in your vehicle if you are a student.

Florida's law is a 3rd degree Felony... so I'd probably just tuck tail and run.


Good point on the STFU on saying anything.
<--
Link Posted: 4/16/2007 4:49:17 PM EDT
Today is a sad example for this thread....Sad but true, I think thier should be some "Updating" to where certain civilians can carry...
Link Posted: 4/16/2007 6:49:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JER:
The blood of those who die is on the hands of the Ohio Virginia General Assembly.
Link Posted: 4/16/2007 9:59:48 PM EDT
I think after today some pro-gun legislators might consider laws that would open up campuses to concealed carry.

I think states should have different levels of CC permits:
Level1. Basic carry, restricted.

Level2. Carry anywhere you want, but you must go through a licensed course and show above average shooting skill and have never been arrested for anything including DUI, etc...
Link Posted: 4/16/2007 10:17:11 PM EDT
I think I could offer a pretty convincing legal argument that I could carry on campus provided I kept my firearm in my vehicle and not in the dorm. UA policy says no "illegal or unauthorized" weapons, and as I am a legal permit holder my USP is both legal and authorized. Rules also state no weapons in the dorms and of course *wink* I follow that *wink wink*. Firearms inside campus buildings may be forbidden, I don't know.

Either way, I'm generally too gallant, stupid, and adventurous a person to haul ass if the perp wasn't shooting at me. The key word of social contract is contract, in all of its legalistic glory: those subject to a social contract (free citizens) have a duty to the contract's ends. In our case, those ends are liberty and domestic tranquility. Of course none of that would be going through my head at the instant; "I'm going to kill that mother fucker" would be. But I thought that in the past when I have had to use force, I think that now, and in the instance I describe I would think that afterward.

Plus, I wouldn't know if where I bugged out to would be safe: the perp may not have been shooting at me yet. I wouldn't know how many there were or if, while I was fleeing, the perp got to some sort of sniping position (easy on a lot of campuses). I would think it best to take him down right then and right there and if there proves to be more of them (I can harbor Red Dawn fantasies if I damn well please) I could try to fight my way to my automobile and a little more uumph (more power, more range, web-gear with 8 30rd mags)
Link Posted: 4/16/2007 10:32:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/16/2007 10:34:06 PM EDT by motown_steve]

Originally Posted By Navyguns45:
I think after today some pro-gun legislators might consider laws that would open up campuses to concealed carry.

I think states should have different levels of CC permits:
Level1. Basic carry, restricted.

Level2. Carry anywhere you want, but you must go through a licensed course and show above average shooting skill and have never been arrested for anything including DUI, etc...


Or we could just take the constitutional belief that "A well regulated militia (us) being necessary to the security of a free state (like being able to defend our communites from psychos when the cops aren't around or are hiding behind tree), the right of the people (us again) to keep and bear arms (carry concealed weapons) shall not be infringed!!!

Had we taken this approach today, then there would probably have been alot of lives saved today.

In answer to the OP's question, I have personally decided that it is worth the stretch. I have a duty to myself, my family and my community to not let myself get murdered. I also have a duty to my fellow citizens to act if someone is going to kill them. I personally would not be able to look myself in the mirror knowing that people who were around me would be alive if I had fought back.

Besides, I don't think that there is a jury around that will convict someone who acted to stop massacre in progress...not after today.
Link Posted: 4/16/2007 10:57:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Navyguns45:
I think after today some pro-gun legislators might consider laws that would open up campuses to concealed carry.


We can only hope.



I think states should have different levels of CC permits:
Level1. Basic carry, restricted.


Bullshit. Comeon, I expect more from a gunner's mate... you're one of the few rates us jarheads can get along with (SEALs and Corpsmen being the others). Why do you need different levels of concealed carry? It's ridiculous. Naturally the state/society needs to restrict arms in the sense of keeping them out of the wrong hands so as to protect society... so naturally, felons, addicts, and other mentally disturbed individuals should be kept from them for the safety of society.

Because I am a firm believer in registration/licensing in any respect to be detrimental to the fundamental theory of an armed citizenry, I cannot condone what you say in any way. We have exactly what you speak of in NY. The law states that in order to carry (or rather, to get a carry license), one must demonstrate "just cause" but gives no definition of "just cause" or how one can attain it. This has opened the floodgates for liberal judges to restrict licenses as they see fit and giving us fiefdom of our rights. It all depends on the county you live in.



Level2. Carry anywhere you want, but you must go through a licensed course and show above average shooting skill and have never been arrested for anything including DUI, etc...


This too is bullshit. Why? Because in a free society, you must trust in responsibility. Rather than a "licensed" course... how about a course that is recognized nationally BY THE PRIVATE SECTOR for its quality, such as various NRA safety courses. You can almost ALWAYS find better quality in the private sector... the USPS being a prime example. They never had overnight or 2-day service until private firms started offering such services. The USPS had to adapt out of sheer need to survive. The USPS is also the ONLY parcel carrier that relies on government funding simply to stay afloat. FedEx was started by a Marine, and naturally, it's quite efficient.

I agree with the NICS check, as well as showing proof of a safety course, but NOTHING else. Governments knowing numbers of weapons and who owns them is also a dangerous slippery slope. Beyond that, and you start to delve into paternalism on behalf of a government wherein the job of the judiciary in handling unlawful acts is diminished by Big Brother tactics. Also, I don't agree with the world "arrest". Just because you were "arrested" does NOT imply guilt. This is one of the greatest bastardizations of our judicial system. It's not enough to check for convictions in a court of law... now, the mere fact that you were arrested and/or charged implies guilt. This truly bothers me, as a good friend of mine was once arrested on a false accusation (he happened to look like someone else), spent the night in jail, and was later released the following day when the victim/witness confirmed that he was not the right guy. Does this mean that he should be scrutinized as well? During my uncle's very messy divorce, she falsely accused him of hitting her and got a restraining order. He had to surrender every firearms lest be charged with a felony for not abiding by the law of the court.

If someone is told by a court of law that they cannot possess weaponry because of crimes committed, fine... let them be informed by the court of such measure. For the rest of us, let us be until we prove ourselves to be a danger to society and must have our rights taken away.

In short, take your liberal gun-grabbing ways and go pound sand. I derive my right to bear arms as endowed by my creator... as a human being... as a free man who chooses to be free and maintains the ability to resist any who might take that freedom... or safety.

You derive your right based upon the ever changing mood of a government. Rights are not granted by government, they are simply recognized by government. Your view of "rights" are actually not rights at all, but rather, privileges, granted unto you by those who crave power and influence in a gesture of their generosity to the masses.

Hell, I used to remember reading about how some towns would have statutes that would PUNISH residents if they traveled beyond a certain distance of a town without arms... as it was considered reckless and irresponsible to wander far from society without a means of protection.

Excuse me, I must go adjust my holster... it has shifted and is jamming me in an uncomfortable way.
Link Posted: 4/16/2007 11:07:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/16/2007 11:08:01 PM EDT by Huckleberry]

Originally Posted By motown_steve:

Originally Posted By Navyguns45:
I think after today some pro-gun legislators might consider laws that would open up campuses to concealed carry.

I think states should have different levels of CC permits:
Level1. Basic carry, restricted.

Level2. Carry anywhere you want, but you must go through a licensed course and show above average shooting skill and have never been arrested for anything including DUI, etc...


Or we could just take the constitutional belief that "A well regulated militia (us) being necessary to the security of a free state (like being able to defend our communites from psychos when the cops aren't around or are hiding behind tree), the right of the people (us again) to keep and bear arms (carry concealed weapons) shall not be infringed!!!

Had we taken this approach today, then there would probably have been alot of lives saved today.

In answer to the OP's question, I have personally decided that it is worth the stretch. I have a duty to myself, my family and my community to not let myself get murdered. I also have a duty to my fellow citizens to act if someone is going to kill them. I personally would not be able to look myself in the mirror knowing that people who were around me would be alive if I had fought back.

Besides, I don't think that there is a jury around that will convict someone who acted to stop massacre in progress...not after today.


Well said motown.

I'm one of those weird bastards who would have ran toward the commotion... but that's the military man in me speaking. I swore an oath to defend the constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic. While criminals aren't really a threat to the constitution, I exist to defend my fellow countrymen, be it from some jihadist prick or some lonely scumbag with low self-esteem who lives in his mamma's basement at the age of 30.

Evil prevails when good men do nothing.
Link Posted: 4/16/2007 11:32:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By topgunpilot20:

Originally Posted By snapahed:
Would I get in serious trouble . . .


Better than being dead.

True. It is better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.
Link Posted: 4/21/2007 10:28:17 PM EDT
State laws vary.

In AZ it is not illegal to carry on a college campus, just a school campus. Colleges and universities are not schools. (Legal definition of a school in this state is elementary and secondary, i.e. high, schools)

Link Posted: 4/22/2007 6:50:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By NVGdude:
State laws vary.

In AZ it is not illegal to carry on a college campus, just a school campus. Colleges and universities are not schools. (Legal definition of a school in this state is elementary and secondary, i.e. high, schools)



This too, is complete bullshit. It seems even the most gun-friendly of states still have communism hiding in the cracks at some place in their legal code.

Most states require extensive background investigation and certification in order to work in schools. So, a bunch of adults who are entrusted with dealing with our children on a daily basis, entrusted with educating them, entrusted to close proximity with those children wherein a sexual assault or other heinous act would really be quite easy if malicious intent existed... cannot be entrusted with firearms.

Someone please show me the logic in this.
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