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Posted: 11/12/2007 4:20:36 PM EDT
Here are a couple of Remington Rands I was interested in. I have a soft spot for WWII era firearms and I thought one of these might be a nice addition to my collection. The problem is I don't know too much about Remington Rands. So, I figured I'd put the question to those more knowledgable than me.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=84575868

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=84454704


Link Posted: 11/12/2007 10:25:31 PM EDT
The first pistol has been rearsenaled. No USGI 1911 was delivered from any manufacturer with a parkerized finish. IMHO, no Remington is worth $1,600 in that condition. The second pistol appears to be in the original finish, an dispite the additional wear to the gun, is a far better deal because it's original. I can't quite make out the inspectors initials on the left side of the pistol, and I wouldn't buy until I could verify that the frame is a Remington.
Link Posted: 11/13/2007 5:52:20 AM EDT
The "FJA" stamp is apparent on #2, but something rubs me the wrong way about it. Maybe it's the pics, or nothing at all, but that was my first instinct.
Link Posted: 11/13/2007 7:23:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/13/2007 7:35:58 AM EDT by Sgt_Gold]
The frame does appear to be a USGI unit, and the serial number falls within the 1945 production of Remington. The 'FJA' is a little faint , but maybe it's just a light strike. This gun may be worth what's being asked as long as all the little pieces are correct.
Link Posted: 11/13/2007 8:05:58 AM EDT
I appreciate the advice. I'm still learning about these types of 1911's and didn't want to purchase something that I'd regret later.
Link Posted: 11/14/2007 7:34:19 AM EDT
not actually true on then parkerizing. a good number of 1911A1's were shipped from remington rand, colt ithaca ad union switch and signal parkerized
Link Posted: 11/14/2007 8:02:17 AM EDT
My bad. I keep confusing WWI guns with the WWII ones for finnish.


Originally Posted By captain127:
not actually true on then parkerizing. a good number of 1911A1's were shipped from remington rand, colt ithaca ad union switch and signal parkerized
Link Posted: 11/28/2007 12:56:28 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/28/2007 1:01:57 AM EDT by bobbyjack]

Originally Posted By Sgt_Gold:
My bad. I keep confusing WWI guns with the WWII ones for finnish.


Originally Posted By captain127:
not actually true on then parkerizing. a good number of 1911A1's were shipped from remington rand, colt ithaca ad union switch and signal parkerized


Really all the old Remington Rands had that grey looking Park finnish,with great swirls!

They only made them for about three years,and thats how you judge them .

I have one of them made in 1945(the 1943-44)are worth more,but mine has huge swirls and is close enough to new it's worth about three large!

bob
Link Posted: 11/28/2007 1:41:24 AM EDT
WoW....and I paid 250.00 for mine in 1976...Wished I had kept it....
Link Posted: 12/1/2007 2:06:26 PM EDT
The swirls are not from the finish, but from the broaching machine used in production of the slide. The marks are more apparent in different Rem Rand guns.
Link Posted: 12/1/2007 3:18:33 PM EDT
Also, the letters 'P" for proof mark will be on the frame, just below, FJA for Frank J Atwood, and the P on top of the slide just forward of the rear sight. If it is a matching slide and frame gun, these "P"s on the frame and slide will be the identical strike and font. Also, if the slide and frame do not mate up even where the hammer is, then the slide and frame are not correct.

Most correct and all original 1911A1's were brought back by GI’s from the War.

Guns that were released from the DCM were all re-built. Rock Island, Augusta Arsenal, and maybe Springfield Armory (Mass) would take a mess of these guns, take them apart and put the parts in bins. They would then take the parts, inspect them, make sure they were serviceable and assemble guns.

Lots of guys out there will advertise an all original 1911A1. Sometimes they don't know what they are talking about sometimes they are misrepresenting an arsenal rebuilt gun as 100% original.

The worst fellows are the ones who have a cobbled together Remington Rand Slide and aftermarket Essex Frame, that try and pass it off as genuine. I’ve been to at least a half dozen gun shows where they are asking $800.00 for something like that. I think Bruce Canfield has a book on the 1911A1, might be wise to get one prior to plunking down good money.
Link Posted: 12/1/2007 5:42:43 PM EDT
Another good reference book is Collectors Guide to Colt .45 Service Pistols, Models of 1911 and 1911A1 by Charles W. Clawson.
This book lists all of the manufactures besides Colt that produced the pistols during wartime production. It is very detailed about serial #, inspectors stamp, proof marks and various rollmarks that are particular to the differnt manufactures.
Link Posted: 12/4/2007 12:24:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/4/2007 12:26:36 AM EDT by bobbyjack]

Originally Posted By Bill45:
The swirls are not from the finish, but from the broaching machine used in production of the slide. The marks are more apparent in different Rem Rand guns.


True but by being there in the park finnish quarantees an original finish.

Same as the ugly milling marks in a P-38. So many things to look for HS on the barrel by the barrel link,usually a half stamped ordnance wheel! I'm just learnig(the hard way)

Bob
Link Posted: 12/4/2007 12:29:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Willys48:
WoW....and I paid 250.00 for mine in 1976...Wished I had kept it....



I traded a motorcycle sidecar for mine in '73. I later traded the R-R and $100. for a Colt Commander. R-R were a dime a dozen at the time.
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