User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 1/21/2006 7:43:06 AM EDT
[#1]
if the only reason you want to know what they use is so that you can go out and buy the same thing I personally think you are going about it all wrong. The government usually does deals with the lowest bidder, with that being said I am pretty sure that they military would have went with SIG but Beretta was cheaper.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/21/2006 8:19:11 AM EDT
[#2]
some units are issued SIG 228s as the M11. I never ran into anyone using anything other than the M9 or the M11(and the SIGs were carried by CID types)
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/21/2006 8:31:30 AM EDT
[#3]
Recon uses (or used) the MEUSOC 1911, a tricked out in house built 1911. I have heard rumors that they now are using a kimber? But untill one comes through the armory and I can see it then I cant say for sure.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/21/2006 8:43:21 AM EDT
[#4]
It is not selling hype to market a gun as "in use by special forces" There are other countries with highly trained special ops units, that rival even our own. GSG-9, SAS, KSK, |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/21/2006 8:58:40 AM EDT
[#5]
SIG P226, H&K Mk23, 1911s built on Springfields, GLOCK 34.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/21/2006 9:39:46 AM EDT
[#6]
He asked about handguns, not hand-grenades 
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/21/2006 9:45:25 AM EDT
[#7]
 I dont see anything funny about that statement. In fact, it shows your immaturity for not recognizing the BEST priced, and most accurate handgun with the most aftermarket parts available.I'll be waiting for your answer to tell me what handgun in this price range tops the glock. 
|
||
|
|
|
Posted: 1/21/2006 10:23:17 AM EDT
[#8]
Not to sound like I'm being nit-picky, but I'm pretty sure that the 1911 has a lot more aftermarket parts than any other pistol out there. Personally, I don't own and don't care for Glocks. They're accurate and reliable as hell, but none of them feel right in my hand. I spent way too many years with 1911s for anything else to feel quite right. Just a personal preference, so PLEASE don't start the 1911 vs. Glock argument!!!! 
|
|||
|
|
|
Posted: 1/21/2006 10:30:35 AM EDT
[#9]
Navy Seals have been known to carry a special issue version of the Sig P226.
(In reality they can carry a number of different sidearms). Navy pilots have been issued SigArms P228s in the past, I don't know if that is still so. I saw a number of S&W .38 snub nosed revolvers for sale of CDNN with CDC markings. I'm still trying to figure out why the Center for Disease control would need sidearms. I suppose when they deploy to Africa for Ebola or Marburg outbreak it would be logical. I have read official procurement reports where Federal Air Marshals were being issued P229s. I don't doubt they can carry other weapons. Not all military, I know, but Gov't anyway. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/21/2006 10:37:27 AM EDT
[#10]
Ruger
U.S. Army Awards Sturm, Ruger & Co., Inc. Contract for 5,000 Pistols December 23, 2004 Sturm, Ruger & Company, Inc. (NYSE: RGR), the nation’s largest firearms manufacturer, is proud to announce that it has been awarded a contract for 5,000 9mm pistols by the U.S. Army Tank-automotive and Armaments Command, Rock Island Arsenal, IL. The pistols to be supplied are Ruger KP95D models. The pistols incorporate a stainless steel slide and a custom polymer composite frame. “We are honored to be part of the nation’s defense by furnishing the Army with Ruger P95 pistols,” said Sturm, Ruger President Stephen L. Sanetti. “As there are no longer any U.S. Government small arms factories, our country must rely on the private firearms manufacturing sector to provide arms for the common defense. Sturm, Ruger’s P95 pistols have developed a legendary reputation for strength, reliability, and value during the last ten years, and we are proud to have won the U.S. Army’s competitive bid with these fine firearms.” “Our late founder, Bill Ruger, who began his firearms industry career 65 years ago designing small arms for the U.S. Government, would have been pleased,” Sanetti concluded. The Ruger pistols to be supplied under this contract will be manufactured in the company’s Prescott, Arizona manufacturing facility. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/21/2006 10:38:45 AM EDT
[#11]
You know people always quote this but it irritates the heck out me because the Gov't establishes the minimum standards BEFORE the bidding commences, and all potential defense contractors have to meet this standard regardless. So say saying the lowest bidder will get the contract really does not mean all that much. A bid can be rejected for something as trivial as omitting a blank adapter, or as critical as failure to meet metallurgical standards. While going with the lowest bidder sometimes means you get crappy components such as the checkmate M9 magazine, this usually means the contractor did not hold up the end of the bargain. A good example of a "lowest bidder" who made products as good as anyone else was GM's Hydramatic transmission division. They turned out M16A1 components as good as anyone elses. Blanket statements such as "the military always buys from the lowest bidder therefore their equipment is suspect" prove nothing by themselves. design flaws and quality issues can occur no matter the contractor, lowest bidder or no. That is why the TDP exists. Buying from the highest bidder does not ensure a flawless product, it only guarantees you paid more. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/21/2006 10:58:45 AM EDT
[#12]
Where in my statement did I say that Glock was better than 1911???Please do not jump to conclusions. I dont like when people put down manufacturers, this monkey who made the statement "hand-grenades" is out of line. Personally, I respect the fact that you prefer a different weapon than I do. So please do not assume that I was starting the "1911 vs. glock" argument. |
||||
|
|
|
Posted: 1/21/2006 10:59:51 AM EDT
[#13]
Jesus, and I thought the Colt Kool-Aid was the strongest. If you honestly think a Glock is the most accurate handgun (at any price point) and has the most aftermarket parts available you seriously need to exercise the warranty on your brain and get it fixed/replaced. And as far as topping the Glock in this price range (which you never actually defined, but oh well), I'll take a Springfield Loaded 1911 or a S&W 1911 anyday. Hell, I'd buy an external extractor Kimber 1911 before a Glock. |
|||
|
|
|
Posted: 1/21/2006 11:06:35 AM EDT
[#14]
You know, as much as I hear people talk about the Mk23, I have never seen it in use in the military. Frankly I think the thing is to cumbersome anyway. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/21/2006 11:08:45 AM EDT
[#15]
He asked which handguns, besides the Beretta were in use by our troops. All of the weapons I listed, including the GLOCK, have been used by U.S. military personel. |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 1/21/2006 11:09:11 AM EDT
[#16]
This is what I've heard.
Army SF (Green Berets) uses the M9, H&K MK .23, USP Tactical .45 U.S Navy Seals: SiG Sauer P226 NAVY 9x19mm & H&K Mk.23 Marine SOC Units: Custom Built 1911A1s, M9s, & Kimber Warrior 1911s? |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/21/2006 11:15:33 AM EDT
[#17]
It was meant to be an offensive weapon, not a defensive weapon. 
|
||
|
|
|
Posted: 1/21/2006 11:16:24 AM EDT
[#18]
Hey, that Kaboom joke was really funny. You are a witty guy. G |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 1/21/2006 11:20:38 AM EDT
[#19]
The Glock is hardly the most accurate handgun with the most aftermarket parts. I know most people don't want the 1911 vs Glock argument started, but there is no comparison. I would rather spend 1200 on a solid 1911 than 500 on a Glock, having shot both, and I am nowhere near "immature." Besides, you get what you pay for... |
|||
|
|
|
Posted: 1/21/2006 11:30:19 AM EDT
[#20]
Really? What Group would that be? I haven't talked to a single SF guy that has been issued either of these weapons. Put 1911s in place of those two and you will be close. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/21/2006 11:49:47 AM EDT
[#21]
DAMN! I accidentally opened Pandora's box. Sorry about that guys, I didn't mean to. Didn't mean for my post to sound like I was accusing you of anything. If that's the way that it was taken then I apologize. Now how do you stuff the demon back into Pandora's box!? Getting back on topic, It's been awhile since I was on active duty, but I was in 5th group (SF), when I was medically retired back in 1993. At that time, and I know that the world is a whole different place now, we had only M9s. Most of us dearly wanted .45s, but the choice wasn't ours to make. |
|||||
|
|
|
Posted: 1/21/2006 11:53:26 AM EDT
[#22]
I meant that more from the stand point that nearly every ad selling anything remotely military seems to claim "in use by special forces". I am simply interested in current TO&E for handguns. More to the point, is there a standard TO&E for Sec Ops units, or is it up to the individual unit as to which weapon they carry? |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 1/21/2006 2:41:50 PM EDT
[#23]
You know if you want current TO&E you should post your question here. The guys currently on AD will be more than happy to answer, I'm sure. |
|||
|
|
|
Posted: 1/21/2006 3:15:08 PM EDT
[#24]
For the price...YES! Glock is the most accurate weapon. Sure, I could pay $1200 for a 1911, but I dont want a gun that I'm going to cry over when I get a little scratch on it. I carry my glock everyday and need something that can take the abuse. |
||||
|
|
|
Posted: 1/21/2006 3:39:53 PM EDT
[#25]
You care to try to prove your statement has any shred of fact to it? You sound like a bad infomercial. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/21/2006 3:50:01 PM EDT
[#26]
Do you care to prove me wrong....I would like to see it.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/21/2006 3:58:58 PM EDT
[#27]
The fact is that your statement is completely baseless. More accurate how? At what range? With what ammunition? Which model Glock? What Caliber? With who shooting them? Against what other models? With what sights? Witnessed and validated by whom? Are you going to personally conduct a scientifically documented range test of EVERY Glock model with Every Commercial load, at EVERY range against EVERY other handgun model by EVERY manufacturer out there within the same price range?! Because that's what you would have to do to support your wild claim that a glock is the most accurate handgun for the money. Not trying to be rude, but I would hope you would begin to see the lack of veracity of your postulation. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/21/2006 4:10:17 PM EDT
[#28]
LOL - I almost cried when I put a light scratch on my $800 stainless 1911 (putting the slide stop in). But then again, I'm a bit picky about appearance (although, if forced to choose, function is far more important) Nothing wrong with Glocks - I shun them ONLY because of grip ergonomics. I fired my new (to me) 92F today alongside the 1911. Grip is fat (and shorter) than full size grip on 1911. Very accurate. I also would like to know what is in mainstream use in our military besides the M9. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/21/2006 4:30:34 PM EDT
[#29]
Anyone know if they still use .38 revolvers at all anymore? Just curious.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/21/2006 4:37:19 PM EDT
[#30]
CDC = California Department of Corrections. Probabaly some of their revolvers. 
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/21/2006 4:47:29 PM EDT
[#31]
AH, that makes sense. I should have bought some while they had them. $250, all stainless an minty condition. Gone now. |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 1/21/2006 5:16:53 PM EDT
[#32]
US mil does use some Glocks, there have been pictures posted here from Iraq and Afganistan, but they are not standard issue. I have seen buth the G17 and G19.
SEALs were issued stainless S&W .357's for a while, apparently a good gun to use while coming ashore/firing from the surf. I have not heard of them being issued for a while, but I would not be suprised if there were still a few kicking around. When the SOCOM guys aren't carrying M9's, Sigs, 1911 variants, or the HK "silent boat anchor" they are probably carrying indiginous pistols (eg makarovs, Helwyns ?sp) to blend in, have ammo available, not have the weapon be identifiable as US, etc. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/21/2006 6:20:47 PM EDT
[#33]
Read the military testing protocol for some tupperware that was actually good enough for military service; the Mark 23. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/21/2006 6:23:55 PM EDT
[#34]
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/21/2006 7:58:18 PM EDT
[#35]
I also heard some U.S Army Tank units are using the SiG Pro 9mm.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/22/2006 3:04:29 AM EDT
[#36]
Standard US military weapons are the M9 and M11. Those are the only two general service weapons approved. Now for Special Ops units we have some more leeway.
Rangers-M9 however can request MK23s SF- M9 and M1911A1s (depot guns) and MK23 (19th signed for them) SEALS-SIG 226s and MK23 USAF-M9 Marine SOC- M9 and M1911A1 Note there will be some M11 in the bunch for the CI agents. Know of one unit using the Glock 19 and M9. All Ruger P95 that I've seen are going to the IA units and not to US forces. CD-still in the sandbox |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/22/2006 3:49:12 AM EDT
[#37]
Thanks for the answer, and more importantly, thanks for your service!! |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/22/2006 6:16:21 AM EDT
[#38]
One thing on the MK23 on the Army's side is that they are all stored in one central location and SOF units then request them per mission. They are not assigned to the units.
CD |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/22/2006 7:23:28 AM EDT
[#39]
That's very interesting. I wonder what the thought behind it is. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/22/2006 7:40:32 AM EDT
[#40]
The Military Channel showed the 2005 Ranger Challenge a few months ago. For the pistol part, everyone shot USPs.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/22/2006 10:03:47 AM EDT
[#41]
Saves the command (tax payer) money by having some high speed stuff to those that need it instead of sitting on shelves in team rooms on the other side of globe gathering dust.
CD |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/22/2006 1:14:45 PM EDT
[#42]
I seen that also, they where all using USP 9mm's. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/22/2006 2:02:14 PM EDT
[#43]
I served in Afghanistan early in the war as a part of the Joint Special Operations Task Force at Khandahar. I met or worked with most special operators from all the services then in country, to include personnel from the UK, German, Danish, Norwegian, New Zealand and Australian SOF. Ive read all kinds of crazy theories and "I heard" posts about what was carried. Here is what I saw(and Im sure that those who werent there know better than me...):
US Army SF (3rd, 5th, 19th SFG): M9 pistol. Some troops did carry 1911s in the field but these were not issue weapons. USAF STS/PJs: Beretta M9 US Navy SW personnel: Sig P226, even staff officers. I saw exactly one HK Mk 23 in country and that was carried by a SEAL Lt in a Safariland thigh rig. Germans: HK P8 and G36 rifles Norwegians: Glock 17 and HK G3A3 rifles, as well as MP5s Danes: did not observe handguns. Used HK G3 type rifles NZ/Aust: P35 9mm. NZ forces used the M4 carbine, Aus used M4 and AUG. I was all over the country from Dec 01 to Aug 02 and the above sums up what I saw. As I mentioned in reference to US Army SF, some personal handguns were in fact carried although this was very much frowned upon at the Command level as all SOF were commanded by a Navy Admiral(by the book..) Once the new commander took over (an Army BG) things relaxed somewhat. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/23/2006 6:46:01 AM EDT
[#44]
He asked what US Military is using... show me a single unit issuing G34s... I do not believe we have any.
This is very misleading of Ruger. As Combat_Diver posted... these guns were purchased for the Iraqis. They are not being used by American military.
When I was the unit deployment manager in 1995 at Kirtland we had a few still, but nobody deployed with them. They just collected dust. I went to our commander and made sure we requisitioned new M9s for our folks and turned in our 38s. I am confident they are all gone by now across the DoD. Of interest... we did have an old M16 that had the early model (reduced diameter) three prong flash suppressor, OD stock, forearms and grip, and said "Patent Pending" on it!!  Serial number was 8k or so.
Best post yet on the subject. Navy aircrew also get M11s (Sig 228s) as does AFOSI and some Army aviation and combat vehicle crewmembers. Our PJs hate not having a 45, but the RFP for the JCP will fix that. Also, a close friend who is Army SF never got to take anything but an M9 when he and his team deployed (he was a ODA commander). I have only seen the black SOF get 1911s. |
||||
|
|
|
Posted: 1/23/2006 7:28:37 AM EDT
[#45]
Reminds me a lot of Bushmaster's hype about providing M16s to the US Military. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/23/2006 7:42:41 AM EDT
[#46]
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/23/2006 7:58:22 AM EDT
[#47]
Sorry about that.  When I was wrapping up my time in, the Army was in the process of retiring the venerable M1911 and were just transitioning to the M9. I glad I never had to carry that thing more than a few months. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/23/2006 8:27:00 AM EDT
[#48]
Maybe it's one of those deals where if you see one, it's usually from the business end. I was not specops but I can tell you it feels great in your palm and it shoots straighter than any other out of the box pistol I've used. I can see why it's the only designated offensive hand gun (to the best of my knowledge) to date. It also makes a great bludgeon. |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 1/23/2006 8:42:06 AM EDT
[#49]
I'd like to note that Soldiers and Marines assigned to Iraqi units are issued Glocks, as are a few of the elite units.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/23/2006 11:51:26 AM EDT
[#50]
The Mk23 has a very specific role as an offensive pistol. In other words, when you need to go somewhere and shoot somebody quietly and very accurately in a place where you, for whatever reason, cannot take a subgun or rifle. I figure it's some sort of CQC thing, like how some SWAT guys only carry a handgun. You know, a real tight place a subgun with a can might be cumbersome. Since it's not often used, and I figure when it is there aren't cameras around, you rarely see pics of it. I saw one a while back on HKPro, but it was just guys standing around. |
||
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
