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Posted: 12/15/2003 5:10:21 AM EDT
I'm teaching ccw and will also be doing NRA Basic Handgun training. One of my courses will be for people who have never fired a thing in their lives. I'm going to start them on .22lr pistols.

If you were running this course and had many different students who had NEVER even HANDLED a gun, what .22lr pistol would you go with?

Thanks,

Mike

PS. Cross-posting to General Discussion board as well.
Link Posted: 12/15/2003 5:15:15 AM EDT
semi...Ruger 22-45.
it has a moderate size grip, big buttons and it's easy to work the bolt.

revolver. Smith and Wesson 317.
same dim as their light 38 specials. can be fitted with "Lady Smith" grips.
Link Posted: 12/15/2003 5:53:13 AM EDT
IMHO, it's a tough question.

I really like the Ruger MKII but have seen a many a thumb of a beginner ripped open by the Nanbu style bolt by using improper handling. It's like the fact the side slide doesn't move lulls them into over confidence and mistakes.

Of course, a revolver is always preferable for starting a beginner but most likely when they buy their own it will be a semi.

I have a number of semi's including the MKII and actually chose the new Berretta Neos to start my son on. It's large for a .22 but features a rubber grip and many of the features of a larger caliber handgun which he will someday graduate to. Cost is in the $200 range so good for volume buys.

I also like the Walther series for many of the same reasons including cost.

I've found both to be reliable.

I of course like the S&W and Browning alot but find the cost prohibitive for volume or beginner level buying.

IMHO, I would prefer starting someone on a target model rather than a pocket model both as to set a mind set as well as beginning training for larger calibers.

Sorry I couldn't be of more help.

Tj

Link Posted: 12/15/2003 10:54:47 AM EDT
P22?

Never shot one but I would imagine the controls are in all the familar places and then the slide racks the same way as a centerfire auto.


If not, then I would go Ruger 22/45
Link Posted: 12/15/2003 5:44:50 PM EDT
Stick with a .22 revolver. As mentioned, the slide ripping back a thumbnail does not a good shooting experience make.

My .22 revolver is a S&W Model 63. Steel frame, S/S metal so it won't scratch easily.

There's several other options: Taurus, Ruger, both make .22 revolvers.

Kinda hard to explain the difference between DA & SA trigger pull feel on a .22 semi, IMO.
Link Posted: 12/15/2003 8:22:05 PM EDT
Thank you for your suggestions! Looking them over, I see a lot of recommendations for the Ruger Mark II or Ruger 22/45 and for a revolver.

I must admit that I've never heard of anyone slicing up their thumbs due to the bolt design on the Ruger .22lr auto pistols. Has anyone here witnessed such an accident? If so, how did it happen?

Thanks,

Mike
Link Posted: 12/15/2003 9:52:30 PM EDT
Don't buy a Walther P22, I have one and it's not reliable, they look awesome, but man they don’t function reliably. Do your research you'll find the same thing everywhere. I would recommend going with a ruger MK II
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 4:23:12 AM EDT

Originally Posted By prebans:
Thank you for your suggestions! Looking them over, I see a lot of recommendations for the Ruger Mark II or Ruger 22/45 and for a revolver.

I must admit that I've never heard of anyone slicing up their thumbs due to the bolt design on the Ruger .22lr auto pistols. Has anyone here witnessed such an accident? If so, how did it happen?

Thanks,

Mike



I'm afraid I have more than once and always with a beginner which after firing a while uses his left hand to support his wrist, bad form. The bolt came back and took the top skin off the knuckle of the thumb. In total, I'd say three times at various ranges over the years.

Tj
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 4:50:44 AM EDT

Has anyone here witnessed such an accident?


Never saw one, doesn't mean it has never happened like TJ related.
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 6:22:08 AM EDT
I really like my 22/45.
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 6:42:48 AM EDT
Any .22 semi-auto *could* bite you...I found one way to demonstrate that fact is to hand the trainee the gun, bolt/slide open, explaining that happens so fast, you can't see it.
Any decent .22 revolver would be optimal, IMO.
I use the MKII or the out of print Beretta model 70 Jaguar...light, reliable and accurate...and only around $175 if you can find a nice one. You can also see the hammer is cocked.
It's smaller size tends not to intimidate, but I bring the MKII along too.
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 6:52:58 AM EDT
my dad shot revolvers for years and did the old left wrist grab the right wrist trick on my 1911 once. i told him not to. told him what it would do corrected him when he tried it but the second time he tried it i let it bite him. sad but that's how he taught me.
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 5:17:36 PM EDT
Mk II. The first handgun I decided to keep was a target model MKII, fired thousands of rounds through it, hard to take apart & clean though. For some reason .22 revolvers have always been difficult for me to shoot but my most accurate handgun is a Colt Trooper using warmly loaded .38s. When you move the students up to a larger caliber try a light load in a full sized .38/.357. I started my 19 year old daughter on my trooper that way and she did very well.
rk
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 5:48:00 PM EDT
Ruger MK II... Nobody has yet to produced a better (affordable) semi-auto, rimfire pistol. Plus, in the very remote chance you get a lemon, Ruger's customer service is unparalled.

They stand behind all their products 100%.
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 5:50:03 PM EDT
I'd frown on a P22. Small size and weight plus it's relative inaccuracy makes it a poor tool to get beginners into handguns.
Although the goal is not to teach combat or full-size DA-semi pistol ergonomics, a previous poster has a valid point.

The first .22 I ever shot was a ruger single action. Such a revolver is clumbsy to load/unload however, it in the process it gets people comfortable & confident with handling a pistol when they spend more time loading/unloading than firing. Also, in the process, you have less of a chance of the trainee making a accidental discharge.
In the semi catagory, any Buckmark or Mark II type would probably be best.

Ideally, I think that a three step SA revolver to DA revolver and a graduate to a Semi defines a ciricullum that keeps interest and builds a pretty broadd base on handgun functionality. I understand that having three training pistols is probably not feasible, just my .02.
Link Posted: 12/17/2003 12:12:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Boomholzer:

Ideally, I think that a three step SA revolver to DA revolver and a graduate to a Semi defines a ciricullum that keeps interest and builds a pretty broadd base on handgun functionality. I understand that having three training pistols is probably not feasible, just my .02.



Also, I would probably shy away from a semi as it might lead to pray and spray. although 'fun', good to teach with a single or double action revolver first. Also, less intimidating and less prone to accidents (heavy DA pull each time), not fire once, smile, look at you (possibly bringing gun with and saying 'look what I did' while pointing a now SA action pistol at your feet). They will do well enough with single or DAO. I remember my girlfriend with bolt action .22. Asked me to stop talking/instructing so she could keep shooting at target she drew. Best.Girlfriend.Ever. (and going)
Link Posted: 12/17/2003 3:49:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Mach1:
Ruger MK II... Nobody has yet to produced a better (affordable) semi-auto, rimfire pistol.




Sure they have, it's called a "Browning Buckmark".
Link Posted: 12/17/2003 5:24:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/17/2003 5:30:06 PM EDT by GoldtopDude]
 
Ruger single six, or  
Walther P22
Link Posted: 12/28/2003 2:00:54 AM EDT


Bob speaks the truth.
Link Posted: 12/28/2003 3:45:38 AM EDT
Now that Browning added that rear cocking nub to the slide, it is more user friendly.
With oily or sweaty hands, the older ones were a bear to cock.
In answer to the thumb slices on a MKII, you get that when you ride the bolt down, as opposed to letting it fly.
Or having a finger in the cutout area when the bolt comes down, that is a very sharp edge on both sides.

Link Posted: 12/28/2003 4:04:22 AM EDT
From what I have on hand, I would use my Ruger single six convertible. A change of cylinders and a .22 mag round would make an interesting contrast too.
Link Posted: 12/28/2003 5:31:30 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/28/2003 4:47:36 PM EDT
I use a Browning Buckmark as my .22 introduction pistol. Reliable, accurate, and if you show them the slide action, they normally don't get bitten.
Link Posted: 1/1/2004 4:55:05 PM EDT
308wood made some excellent suggestions. I'd second his and add to the list a Ruger .22 Bearcat. That would cover all the basic types of handguns.

If I had to choose only one, I'd go with the S&W DA revolver.
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