You are alone at a gas station late at night.  While you are filling up your car a very shady looking guy standing about 50 yards away starts walking towards you.  Once he gets within 25 yards you tell him to stay where he is.  He says he just needs the time.  You tell him “I don’t know but don’t come any closer.” He keeps walking towards you.  You lift up your shirt put your hand on your CCW and yell “Do not come any closer!”  But he keeps walking towards you.  What do you do?

And for you guys that say you would draw, what would you do if he just kept on walking towards you?

Note: assume you are in a state in which you have no duty to retreat and you can NOT see any kind of weapon on him.

No weapon??  You better be able to articulate how you were "In fear for your life" because this unarmed man was closing distance if you decide to draw....

I would offer him a modified haircut




my karma ran over your dogma

I'd up the anti and tell him something more like....stay the f_ck away from me a__hole.  Take a defensive/aggressive stance....

Well, I'd blade at 45 degrees and sweep the leg!

If he approached within arms length he'd probably get pistol whipped.

I'm not firing unless I see a weapon.

Move to place your vehicle between you. Circle all night to stay away from him unless he escelates the situation with a weapon. You might look silly or feel stupid "running" from this clown but it sure as hell beats going to jail

a few things, one, everyone will react diff.––both on the internet and in real life

first off, i would descretely draw and keep my firearm in a covert carry method  by the time he started walking towards me; if not possible, my hand would already be descretely positioned for a draw

where are his hands?

2nd, i would not shoot or present a weapon UNTIL there is a presence of some intention, ability, and opportunity of him using deadly force/having harmful intent...so far, in your senario, you have a retard, who may be deaf, that has no weapons present, no threating motions or verbal (threat) intentions walking in your direction––hell, you really cant justify that he IS heading towards you (for all you know, after you told him you dont have the time, he might just be walking past you to the gas station/etc)

retreating in a cautious (gun at covert ready) and decisive and aggressive way would be my goal––put the car, the pump, car door, etc physically between me and his path, but still keep my eyes on him and his hands....it doesnt matter if the state you are in, or if you "have no duty to retreat"
there is nothing wrong with retreating in this situation (yet)––no need to escalate a situation that may be nothing, no reason to show your hand before otherwise

you can "stand your ground" if you want, but its stupid to do so if you can walk/drive away; some things are worth killing/going to prison for...DRTing some dude on a stroll at a gas station looking for the time probably isnt one of em

that said, if the BG is already the distance to your vehicle and making no intentions of going anywhere but towards you...full verbal challenges (STOP!)
where are his hands? where is your gun?

if he makes a CLEAR intention of bodily harm towards you, such as closing withing the premese of your vehicle (hands in pocket or weapons in hand, etc) and does not respond to the verbal challenges...FIGHT and DRT

PS: mace/non-lethal methods might be a better call to have in your other hand if he still does not have any weapons, present any other intentions, etc, but still is walking within your personal space

YMMV

First off, I'd guestimate the time and just shout it back at him.  If he keeps walking towards me, I'd have my hand on my gun ready to drawn (in a way that would indicate to him of my intentions) and I would keep a constant distance between him and I.  Maybe the dude is just walking back to his car which may or may not be positioned behind your current position.  I'd want to keep his entire body in my view the entire time of the ordeal.  I'm not sure if I'd want to have him get close enough to my vehicle to be able to conceal most of his body from me.  I'd try to stay in the open if possible (most gas stations have sizable asphalt area).  

If the station was open during the night and an employee was inside with an open door... I'd probably retreat to that immediately.  Like tell the dude, "I'm gonna go check"... and run inside acting like you want to find a clock.  If he's a bad guy... he'd probably give up at that time.  If not, he'd just think you were some weirdo for booking it inside to get the time.

You are all wrong.

You have demonstrated 'tunnel vision' throughout this situation. In this case, IF he means harm, he's likely being the DECOY while his pals discretely circle behind you.

I had a similar situation once. I just re-holstered the gas nozzle, got in my car and drove away. I passed one of his buds giving me the open-handed "WTF" look. I hadn't even seen him!*

Having a gun doesn't make you omnipotent... in fact, it causes you to behave with FAR MORE restraint that you would otherwise. YOU must take the moral 'high ground.'



*This happened before I moved to a gun-friendly state.

+1 - If I never saw a weapon he'd just have "Mark 23" stamped across his forehead on the way to the hospital.

I have been meaning to keep a bat in the trunk of my car.  I also have some teargas/pepper spray, but I don't carry it often enough.  Being near my car is also an advantage.  I can get in the car, and leave, ot use it as a barrier.  I can also use the car to store my pepper spray and baseball bat as well.  I'd rather break some of his ribs with a bat than to shoot him anywhere.

This.

Spray gas on his bitch ass.


I've observed people feel uncomfortable with the prospect of being set on fire.
I'm not really sure you'd be justified shooting someone for walking toward you, no matter how many times you warn them.

A combination of these two.  If he's far enough away that you can get in the car and leave then do it.  Just because you have no duty to retreat doesn't mean you shouldn't retreat anyway.  

If he's close enough that getting in your car makes you vulnerable then keep obstacles between the two of you.  If he's pursuing you around your car it ain't so he can get the time, I think I'd be drawing my weapon and telling him to f*ck off at that point, as it's clear he's coming toward you.  I'm not about to try and pistol whip him, but he'll be staring down the barrel of a .45.  

Overall watch for his partner, and if you can, retreat in your car or into the station.  You need to call the cops when everything is calmed down regardless, unless they're already there of course.

very good point...i was still under the assumption that in OP's senario, "you are alone"––ie: he's already done his 361 scan and is still doing so

but definintly a point that needs to be reinforced

Another good situation for OC spray. Personally, I would take the gas nozzle out and be ready to spray him. An accidental gasoline spray would be easier to articulate than brandishing a gun on an unarmed man.

I have to put in a Whiskey Tango Foxtrot on this....  and several other threads that have popped up just like this.

So you're pumping gas and someone is walking in  your general direction and you yell "stop!" at 25yards away??  Seriously??
Maybe I'm too much of a Tennessean, but I don't think everyone is out to 'get me'.  Let him walk up, see what he wants.  If he's within 5ft, hands in pockets, maybe I'd 'take an aggressive stance'. But really now, yelling "Stop" at someone 25yds away in a public place?   Even preparing to draw when he keeps walking towards you?

Is this why non-carriers think we're all nuts?

I act the same with my sidearm as I did before I ever considered carrying concealed.  I do not constantly do "360 scans" looking for "Tangos" or "Threats".  I do not go into GI JOE/COP wanna-be mode and yell at people to "STOP!" when they approach me from 25yds out.  I do not carry my firearm to fulfill some kind of authority figure fantasy life.



It's been said before, and bears repeating:  Your firearm is your last ditch effort.  If it's 'you or him', then do your damndest to make it him. Otherwise, don't brandish your firearm at someone walking towards you in public yelling "Stop!".  Asshole move IMO.



ETA: I threw a random "IF" in there?
Also, I do not mean this as any kind of 'flame' or insult to the OP or any other posters.  There are times/situations that make your hair stand on edge, and you may feel the need to do just what the OP suggested.  My rant was aimed more at the type of people who carry because they love getting into situations like this even when unnecessary.

I was thinking this myself originally, but did not comment on it.  I would not even yell stop to somoene who was 25 yards away.  Like you said, he would need to get much closer to where an invasion of my personal space was compromised.  OC spray and a baseball bat are good tools to keep in the car.

I didn't really think about the yards distance in looking at it originally.  I pictured in my mind the idea of someone at a short distance with an obvious fixation with me, a distance that would make me uncomfortable with their presence.  I think what made me appreciate the scene the OP was setting was the "I just want to know the time" bit.  That's one of the things I've talked to my wife about, the suspicious person attempting to put you at ease.

I stand by my answer above as I think it is pretty level headed given what I was picturing in my mind.  You leave if you feel uncomfortable or make them be the aggressor if you can't get away safely.  

But you do make a very good point, 50 yds and even 25 yds is a good ways off if you're at a gas station.  Put them at 50 ft and 25 ft and you get the situation I was picturing.

this situation is why I carry chem spray.
I carry this and a surefire 6P defender light and knife when I can NOT carry a gun, and it comes along with my gun also

no one said anything about yelling "stop" at 25yards away, which i would agree, in this case is kind of pointless and not called for; but i sure as hell would if he was within striking distance of my person in this case (a stranger heading in your direction with some intent of "something" and not heeding your "i dont have the time" response)

FWIW: to those that would yell "stop!" at the persumed badguy at 25yards away...what is wrong with that? at worse, the guy keeps coming, or everyone thinks you are "nuts"––and who the hell cares if everyone thinks you are "nuts"...at best, he turns tail and you continue on

I dont care if you are from MS, TN, or any place in the world, but if a strange dude continuned to walk towards you from 25yrds away with no responses to your questions or answers of "the time"...then something is up; might be something, might be nothing
i'd be damned if he got within 5 ft of me so i "can see what he wants" with his demenor and with no descrete weapon readily accessable
HE can TELL me WTF he "wants" way the fuck back there

no, imo, non-carriers think we are nuts b/c of the guns

as to acting the same as if you did/did not have a firearm, thats cool...which leads me to say: you should be scanning IRREGARLESS if you have a CCW or not

there is NOTHING wrong with scanning 361 degress at ANY given point at time, esp in public places...not necessarily looking for "threats", but simply to LOOK
hell, there could be a loose "I" beam about to fall on your head or a stray dog heading your way...

the point is: keep your eyes open, be aware of your surroundings...it doesnt matter if you are simply stopping to fill up for gas or simply walking outside your door to get the paper or if you have a gun on or not

i would tend to agree that your firearm is a last resort to USE in most CCW situations (ie: why OC/mace should be an option)...but that is NOT to say in this (or any similar situation) that you can NOT have your firearm descretely available, ready to go (ie: covert ready or simply positioning your hand descretely near/on your firearm)

in the senario, the stranger is continuing walking towards you AFTER you told him you did not have the time (luckily, he's already told you his "intent")...imo, thats enough to warrant your senses to go up to "orange" and prepare for something

i agree, carrying a gun is not for some "fantasy life"; but some of us who are in real life and who have faced similar, violent situations know that seemingly "calm" "everyday" situations turn violent at the drop of a dime

I agree: dont go looking for trouble; at the same time, if trouble is comming to you (or what you may construde), should you not go ahead and take those precautions to ensure you get away from it

YMMV

I just read about a similar situation here:


http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=988447

one that ended well with the OP...good on him

I actually had a very similar situation at 3:00 am, in June of 2007, in a gas station parking lot in Tyler, Texas.  I was leaving the convenience store, walking toward my car at the pump...

A stranger from across the parking lot yelled at me for a ride, and that he would pay me.  I said "no thanks" and kept walking toward my car.

He kept approaching, still asking for a ride.  I at this point stopped (still 20+ feet from my car) and said, "I said NO, now fuck off..."

He replied that I needn't be like that, and what about I just give him $20... (a second ago he was gonna pay me ).  At this point, he was about 15 feet away.

I unholstered my CCW piece, pointed it downward in front of me, and repeated my request for him to "fuck off".  This time he did what I said.

Maybe I should have handled it differently...  hindsight is 20/20.

- AG

hey, you walked away GTG...i'd say that it was handled well enough

QFT!

Seriously folks?

And you knuckleheads proposing to pistol whip the guy... go back to GD with that crap.

yup

+1, have thought of this before.

Reach inside my car and pull the mace. If he gets within 10 yards, blind him with my flashlight. if he keeps coming at 5 yards mace him. if no visible weapon, no shot. I can mace him, but im not shooting without a weapon or a group of thugs coming at me in an aggressive manner.

Make it 3 guys that are already around your pump blocking you from your door (blindsided...yes I learned my lesson) and be 19 years old so all you have is your benchmade mini grip. They were THIS close to getting soaked with 87 octane!






Yeah I know, I'm a liar because of my post count

For those of us who have training to do so it doesn't seem so far fetched, I think this thread is "what would you do" not "what should everyone do".  

If someone is within an arms reach of your space, your list of options are few if the scenario doesn't constitute deadly force.

Do they not consider a strike to the head with a hard, heavy, blunt object as deadly force in GA?

In MN, if you are reasonably in fear of Great Bodily Harm you can respond with deadly force. In MN GBH is defined via case law as a 2" scar on a visiable portion of body when in a bikini (for a female.) It is larger for a male.

If a person is hostile and within a few feet and I am reasonably in fear of attack, and I have no method of retreat, using my firearm is acceptable for me both legally and morally.

I had a similar draw down in Tyler, as did another fellow on this site.  What the fuck is wrong with Tyler, TX?





 

Tyler is probably the most severe socioeconomic dichotomy I have ever seen.  THe general area in East Texas is poor and rural, but there is a large element of inherited wealth that lives there as well.  Causes tension.

BTW, if you want to buy drug parephenalia (sell it on the counter) and then have someone attempt to jack you at 3:00am, the Valero on 64 and the West loop is a great place .

- AG

If I'm on the fence on shooting a potential BG due to not being positive of his intentions then I’m cool with bumping the guy on the head to bring him back down to earth.  That’s all I’m saying.  I agree with what you said.

Just saying it’ll take a lot more than getting in my face before I just drop one in the guy’s chest.  People have very different personal thresholds on what they consider “that line” and if it gets crossed or not.

+1 I'm with Dallas......  I'll take the assalt charge.....

I wait for him to come within arms reach and then hit him with a morote gari or floor his ass with an osoto gari.  If he draws a knife he's getting a wristlock then thrown on his can.

I would blade at a 45 degree angle and scream "DISENGAGE, DISENGAGE" and then brace for the massive adrenaline dump

stop pumping gas and drive away, while keeping my hand on my CCW just in case


or is that not the answer you were looking for?

Left hand would point the gas hose at him.  
Right hand would remain ready

i was at a gas station just the other day when a guy approached me.  i observed him on the lot when i pulled up.  i kept one eye on him as i pumped gas.  he came right to me, asking for a cigarette.  i told him in a stern, loud voice i don't smoke(makes other people look at you).  was he looking to rob me, probably not.  but the fact that he crossed the entire lot, passed by three other cars to ask ME for a smoke, a few small bells were going off.  no panic, didn't get into a defensive stance with my fists balled up ready to strike.  he walked away, no big deal.  situational awareness goes a looooong way.  i immediately looked for his back up, but he disappeared around the back of the store not to be seen again.  had he drawn a weapon, or even reached into his pocket funny, he would've been staring at a .45 hydra shok.  he was a little too close for comfort, but not a perceived threat, FOR ME.  for someone else it may have been way too close.  being 6'3" and 350 lbs, pulling a gun on an unarmed person looking for a smoke would have been a bad deal for me.  if he had made a move, empty handed, a palm heel strike to the face makes people think twice.  i have been in more than a few fights(worked in the prison for six years) and have learned a few things!  know your abilities, keep an eye on everyone(its not paranoia its a survival tactic), and carry 24/7.


and yelling STOP at someone 20 yards away is kinda weird i think.  but this is texas and we are pretty friendly so maybe thats just me?

Your right, being aware does go along way. Thats what they taught my wife at a defense course was be aware and let people know you are aware. They go after the poor sheepies who never knew what hit them because they wont be reacting when they act. I work in a bad area and was pumping gas, 4 hoodlums walked out and passed close to my car (on the other side) staring at me. I just got my ccw and was just getting used to wearing it but I just got off work and didnt really feel like putting it on. They saw me eyeing them back and sped up. Could they have done something, I dont know, with carjackings happening streets away and stolen cars in the area being one of the worst in the state, they could have thought about it. But be aware of your surroundings and dont be scared to let them know you know they are there and you see them acting.
oh. Im glad they didnt try anything, I had my car door locked and they would have gotten a car and a gun. I got a smaller gun to carry so its easy to put in my pocket and I keep the door unlocked (unless I go inside) and consider the gas pump itself to be a good deterent , especially with matches

Well, the 360 degree look would be in order....probably most important thing to do.

I simply would not have said a word the entire time. I'd let the situation unfold to see where it was headed. If it got uncomfortable, a swift quiet kick to the balls may be all that's needed.

A number of you have mentioned that you would use hand-to-hand (or foot-to-nuts!) force like this.

I don't mean this to be offensive, so don't read anything into it . . . but I find it interesting that you are so confident in your ability to win in a situation like this, especially with the possible consequences given that you are carrying a loaded sidearm.  If you get into a fistfight, and lose, the bad guy will have your gun.

I personally don't have much experience with fighting, so I think I'd have two choices if he kept approaching:

1) Get the hell out of there; or
2) Use the gun, whether to intimidate or to shoot (yeah, lots of legal tidbits to consider).

Getting into a fistfight with a whackjob, with a loaded weapon that he might take from me, doesn't seem like it should ever be an option.

Perp's empty handed, I would....

Drive away, pepper spray or gas spray; All from a distance. Just keep your situational awareness sharp.

I know it may not work for you but that's what i'd do as opposed to going for my gun in that situation. I had to resort to hand to hand once while carrying. Like I said, not a word was uttered by me.....just action on my part. Before he knew what happened, it was over. Gun was never introduced. And someone can jump in here and flame but.....he left me no other option.

I'm 6'4 and 300 pounds ,so if theres no visible weapon i'm body slamming his ass.

And if he has AIDS and bites you or spits in your eyes?



The trash that seems to be becoming more prevalent on the streets isn't something I want to come into physical contact with even though I could break most of them in two like a rotten twig.  Too many of them are tweakers or other druggies who probably are HIV positive or have hepatitis.



Verbal commands and flashlight in the eyes, if that's ignored they can taste my pepper spray.  If they keep coming after that I may screw that gasoline nozzle down their throat, but no way they're coming into contact with me.  



 

Haha... No one approaches me while I am refueling... No one approaches me period. Guess it's the curse of being 6'2, 250, and always looking like you want to kill something...

I'd say your best way to avoid any trouble is to stop filling up, get in the car and drive off.  I pay with credit so I wouldn't have to worry about the gas station charging me with a drive off.

If you really want your gas, just go in your car.  If he's stupid enough to try and remove you from you car, you are justified in using deadly force in Texas.
http://tlo2.tlc.state.tx.us/statutes/pe.toc.htm read chapter 9.  But then you might get busted in a civil suit.