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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 2/9/2006 1:07:49 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/9/2006 1:09:23 AM EDT by ar-steve]
Any one know what ball rounds are good combat? I would like to know if there is any real differance in fps , hard primers and such. The brands I am looking at are..
PMC
WWB
S&B
Fiocci
Wolf
UMC

any info would be great
eta ..post 308 spent on a .45acp question
Link Posted: 2/9/2006 1:55:58 AM EDT
YMMV, but most of my 230grn. FMJ 45acp ammo was purchased from Ammoman and was USGI Lake City production.

Sorry he's no longer showing any there, but that don't mean at sometime he won't get more, (keep checking back).

FWIW, I have fired every brand you listed there (except the Wolf) and never had any issues with any of 'em.

Mike
Link Posted: 2/9/2006 2:01:19 AM EDT
I personally wouldnt want to rely on ball for defensive use.


I chrono'd wolf and was unimpressed with 775fps.
I didnt get around to running any other ammo over the chronograph yet.
Link Posted: 2/9/2006 2:53:59 AM EDT
If I'm using ball ammo for combat, it had better be issued.

If you look around, you can find new USGI ball. I've got 500 rounds set back. But I've got a lot of GDHP to go through before it comes to that.
Link Posted: 2/9/2006 3:17:49 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/9/2006 3:18:11 AM EDT by Commando223]
Hungarian MFS .45 +P FMJ
Link Posted: 2/9/2006 4:59:29 AM EDT
The kind with the hollow opening in the tip.
Link Posted: 2/9/2006 6:41:55 AM EDT
whats the fps on the usgi?
Link Posted: 2/9/2006 7:17:17 AM EDT
Do Glasers or Pow 'r Balls from Corbon count?
Link Posted: 2/9/2006 7:41:58 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ar-steve:
whats the fps on the usgi?


I don't know.
I think I got it from Natchez
But their ad doesn't list the velo either.
Link Posted: 2/9/2006 9:03:55 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ar-steve:
Any one know what ball rounds are good combat? I would like to know if there is any real differance in fps , hard primers and such. The brands I am looking at are..
PMC
WWB
S&B
Fiocci
Wolf
UMC

any info would be great
eta ..post 308 spent on a .45acp question



Of your choices, WWB. Don't know much about PMC and the other makes are foreign, which means lower quality (greater chance of misfires) and Wolf (possibly others on your list) are steel-cased, American .45 pistols aren't intended for use with steel-cased ammo. Foreign weapons, however, are a different story. If you can't get USGI, get WWB. Also, what about Federal ?
Link Posted: 2/9/2006 9:27:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Stryfe:

Originally Posted By ar-steve:
whats the fps on the usgi?


I don't know.
I think I got it from Natchez
But their ad doesn't list the velo either.



My issue with that ammo is that the headstamp said "MATCH" IIRC. I didn't want to pay for USGI Ball ammo and get Competition ammo. I never heard if anyone Chronoed it or pulled it apart for inspection.
Link Posted: 2/9/2006 11:13:22 AM EDT
If I could find it locally I'd be happy to chronograph it. I'll be picking up a few different .45 loads to run over the chrono here in the next couple weeks. I'll keep an eye out for it.
Link Posted: 2/9/2006 11:16:31 AM EDT

Originally Posted By markm:

Originally Posted By Stryfe:

Originally Posted By ar-steve:
whats the fps on the usgi?


I don't know.
I think I got it from Natchez
But their ad doesn't list the velo either.



My issue with that ammo is that the headstamp said "MATCH" IIRC. I didn't want to pay for USGI Ball ammo and get Competition ammo. I never heard if anyone Chronoed it or pulled it apart for inspection.


At 12 dollars per 50, it's half of what Cabela's charges for Red box BH.
And it's only 3 dollars more than WWB.
Wolf cruises in at around 8 dollars for 50.

If it is match ammo, it's a bargain.

My problem with it is that the ad says it's NATO spec. Is there a NATO spec for .45ACP?
Link Posted: 2/9/2006 11:17:26 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/9/2006 11:32:07 AM EDT
how about that Winchester +p run that they made for SOCOM a whiles back (flat head FMJs)

suppost to be pretty 'hot'
Link Posted: 2/9/2006 12:04:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MRW:
How are American pistols made differently from foreign ones that precludes the use of steel cased ammo?


WWB would be my choice



Doesn't preclude it, but people have had FTF's with steel-cased stuff. American weapons are designed for brass-cased, that being why domestic ammo is brass-cased. Not saying that you can't use steel, but why not stick to what the weapon was desinged for ? Same reason people usually shoot foreign steel-cased ammo in rifles like AK's and SKS', they're made for steel-cased ammo and brass-cased doesn't always perform as well.
Link Posted: 2/9/2006 12:10:57 PM EDT
What does one do differently to make a weapon suitable for brass, or steel case ammo?

FWIW, wasn't WWII vintage .45ACP steel case?
Link Posted: 2/9/2006 12:33:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Stryfe:
What does one do differently to make a weapon suitable for brass, or steel case ammo?

FWIW, wasn't WWII vintage .45ACP steel case?



I understand that later in the war this was true. I never understood this "designed for steel case mentality". If that was true, than I would assume that the chamber would be harder steel in an AK than a AR, and I don't think that is true.
Link Posted: 2/9/2006 12:39:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/9/2006 12:41:35 PM EDT by MRW]
Link Posted: 2/9/2006 12:47:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/9/2006 12:52:27 PM EDT by MonkeyGrip]
Link Posted: 2/9/2006 12:54:03 PM EDT
Most factory 230gr FMJ ammo will chrono at around 830 fps.
I believe the original ammo spec was for 870 fps and current military may run at that speed.
Link Posted: 2/9/2006 12:59:02 PM EDT
Btw, my 1911s have eaten about 4K of wolf with no malfunctions other than a couple dud primers. I shoot wolf when I cannot recover my brass. I'll probably buy a couple thousand of wolf each year for misc plinking. It is underpowered though.
Link Posted: 2/9/2006 2:31:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MRW:

Originally Posted By Bob1984:

Originally Posted By MRW:
How are American pistols made differently from foreign ones that precludes the use of steel cased ammo?


WWB would be my choice



Doesn't preclude it, but people have had FTF's with steel-cased stuff. American weapons are designed for brass-cased, that being why domestic ammo is brass-cased. Not saying that you can't use steel, but why not stick to what the weapon was desinged for ? Same reason people usually shoot foreign steel-cased ammo in rifles like AK's and SKS', they're made for steel-cased ammo and brass-cased doesn't always perform as well.






AR/AK steel/brass issues are issues of chamber tolerances specific to those families of firearms. Pistol chambers are usually loose, reagardless of manufacturer. Chamber steel is always much harder than the case steel, so that's not an issue. Brass is "slipperier" than steel, but the polymer coating on the new wolf seems to have made the diferences negligible.

All my pistols shoot steel case wolf just fine. Colt, Norinco, Argentine 1911s, XD9, Glock, etc.

You MIGHT have accelerated wear on your extractor on ANY pistol using steel case ammo, but that simply means replacing your extractor at 10,000 rounds rather than 15, 000. I probably won't EVER shoot that much in my lifetime.



HK's are known to have tight chambers, I have heard of FTF's with USP's trying to chamber steel-cased (Wolf, specifically).
Link Posted: 2/9/2006 5:22:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/9/2006 5:22:57 PM EDT by MRW]
Link Posted: 2/10/2006 4:28:50 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Stryfe:
At 12 dollars per 50, it's half of what Cabela's charges for Red box BH.
And it's only 3 dollars more than WWB.
Wolf cruises in at around 8 dollars for 50.

If it is match ammo, it's a bargain.

My problem with it is that the ad says it's NATO spec. Is there a NATO spec for .45ACP?



The price wasn't too bad at Natchos, but shipping to my address has always killed any savings that could be had from them.
Link Posted: 2/10/2006 10:26:39 AM EDT
Federal Expanding FMJ.
Link Posted: 2/10/2006 11:04:35 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/10/2006 4:15:11 PM EDT
Speer Lawman
Link Posted: 2/11/2006 5:12:44 AM EDT
The US military used steel cased .45 ACP ammo during WWII due to a shortage of brass. It was an issue item.


Originally Posted By Bob1984:
American .45 pistols aren't intended for use with steel-cased ammo. Foreign weapons, however, are a different story.

Link Posted: 2/13/2006 4:49:00 AM EDT
AR-steve,
I would suggest Magtech 230 gr. JSWC.
I currently load these bullets as components for my personal self defense uses. Both of my 1911s prefer ball ammo over hollow points and this is fine as far as I'm concerned.
A JSWC will punch a clean round "honest" .45 caliber hole in flesh and bone just as easily as it will through paper. Bleeding from this kind of wound cannot be stopped with a bandage and pressure. Surgery is the only option (provided the goof isn't dead; a more likely outcome).
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 6:13:49 AM EDT
From being on the receiving end of an LSWC I can attest to the fact that the sharp shoulder does bad things to flesh. I have a nice divot out of my back from a graze with one. I would not feel underarmed with an SWC design. If you have to go with a nonexpanding bullet I would choose that over any round nosed bullet.
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