Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Posted: 1/30/2006 4:46:05 PM EDT
I've noticed since springfield has released the XD in .45acp, that there seems to be a lot of used .45GAP XD's on the market.
Also, i've noticed a lot of people dismissing the GAP as a mistake and will end up even less common than the 10mm.
The thing is, i'm kinda interested in picking up a lower than normally priced pistol in GAP, mainly for the price. But then again, if the gun dies, ammo pricing will go thru the roof.

What do you guys think?
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 4:48:26 PM EDT
Probably much like the 357SIG, an interesting cartridge but not widely available.
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 4:59:21 PM EDT
if you reload, you could always make your own brass. kind of a pain though.
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 5:00:51 PM EDT
Yeah grizzly, I don't have the time or the patience for that. Maybe 15-20 years from now.
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 5:16:44 PM EDT
Yes and Yes.
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 5:43:21 PM EDT
Glock is pushing it pretty hard. I don't think it will die, but I don't see it getting very popular. Somewhere between the 10mm and .357 sig.
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 5:49:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/30/2006 5:50:21 PM EDT by triburst1]
Not a mistake. It does make sense. A cartridge of the same caliber and with the same ballistics as a popular round, but with the disticnt advantage of fitting in a smaller frame that is adaptable to a wider variety of shooters.

The problem lies in this: .45 ACP shooters are by in large tradition based. Most guys who carry a weapon in .45ACP carry it in some part simply because it is a "good ol' .45." This type of shooter is not going to be easily convinced to try something new, especially a new cartridge that proposes to replace their old favorite in a more efficient package.
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 5:59:24 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 6:01:21 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 6:07:30 PM EDT
yes and yes
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 6:08:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By triburst1:
Not a mistake. It does make sense. A cartridge of the same caliber and with the same ballistics as a popular round, but with the disticnt advantage of fitting in a smaller frame that is adaptable to a wider variety of shooters.

The problem lies in this: .45 ACP shooters are by in large tradition based. Most guys who carry a weapon in .45ACP carry it in some part simply because it is a "good ol' .45." This type of shooter is not going to be easily convinced to try something new, especially a new cartridge that proposes to replace their old favorite in a more efficient package.


I understand what you are saying but IMHO most of the new cartridges will not be very popular. I'm talking about the short magnum rifle rounds, the 17 caliber rimfire rounds, the 204 Ruger and the 45 GAP. I'm not saying none of them will succeed or that guns and ammo will be unavailable in 5, 10 or 20 years. But these were all designed to meet the companies' need to sell guns not the shooters desires. A few will do well the rest will be all but forgotten niche rounds like the 10mm and the .257 Roberts.
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 6:46:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/30/2006 6:47:47 PM EDT by BulletBait]
Yes and Yes.
The CRgAP was nothing more Mr G's 1st attempt at getting his name on a popular headstamp.
Quote me. There will be more Glock rounds
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 8:16:20 PM EDT
Yes and Yes
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 8:42:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BSheppard:
Yes and Yes



+1
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 9:05:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By cheaptrickfan:
Probably much like the 357SIG, an interesting cartridge but not widely available.



My thoughts exactly.
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 9:10:22 PM EDT
I thought it was gone already?
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 9:42:09 PM EDT
I was cool with the concept and though it was a good idea for those with smaller hands and stuff, then i read this artice that was supposed to show a fair comparison of the GAP vs the ACP by having a 4" glock barrel and a 4" 1911 barrel made and tests performed etc. The gap averages 15-30 fps faster and the writer of the article proclaimed that the GAP was the superior cartridge and that it would replace the acp or some crap.

The author id not take into consideration the effectively 1/8" longer length of usable barrel in the glock, but also, I have seen different barrels of the same caliber vary velocity by huge amounts with the same loads. On top of that 15-30 fps is hardly enough of a difference to declare a winner with. My conclusion is that Glock must have bought the article so as to slather propaganda and is willing to lie, cheat, and mislead people in order to boost sales.

I have wished death upon the cartridge ever since.

Glock guns are good guns, but the GAP can rot in Hell.
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 9:53:26 PM EDT
My feeling is that the 45GAP could probably die like the rimmed 9mm Remington and the 41AE. In terms of performance I think the 40S&W to fullfill that role easily, and it is widely available.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 12:02:41 AM EDT
It will die unless Glock and other major manufacturers pour enough money into it to keep it going. IMO, I think we should seriously consider returning to the 10mm, it sucks that it's kind of died down like it has Also, I believe .40 S&W doesn't really have much point because there are plenty of 9mm and .45 rounds that do essentially the same thing. I like the idea of the .357 SIG, but I'd rather they had done it with a slightly longer cartridge (perhaps a .45 or 10mm length) so you could get full .357 Mag performance as opposed to .357 snubby light-load performance. I'm well aware of cartridges like the .38 Super and 9mm Win Mag, but they're practically obsolete today.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 12:08:47 AM EDT
Short Mags get 100% of the ballistics with 7% less powder. that is fairly significant.

The .45 GAP is not much of an improvement over 9MM anyway. I'm less worried about the size of the round compared to how well the round feeds, and it is short and stubby.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 2:18:07 AM EDT
I don't understand why Glock had to reengineer a whole new cartridge to make the .45 frame smaller when they simply could have gone the way of HK and Taurus with the 24/7 and made steel or aluminum .45 ACP mags. This would greatly shrink the G21 frame. Granted the metal mags wouldn't fit in older G21s or vica versa what they could do is call it the G21S for steel, alot better than reengineering the wheel.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 3:32:45 AM EDT

Originally Posted By cheaptrickfan:
Probably much like the 357SIG, an interesting cartridge but not widely available.



The 357 SIG is used by MANY Police and Fed LEO agencies; it is also quite popular
among SIG and Glock shooters.

I can find 357sig ammo at my local Gander Mtn,and Most online dealers.
The 45 GAP does NOTHING other cartridges dont do Better.

You probably like the Grendel , dont you?
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 3:55:06 AM EDT

Originally Posted By grizzlyarms:
if you reload, you could always make your own brass. kind of a pain though.



out of .45acp brass? that would be a bad idea as gap brass has thicker walls and slightly different dimensions. but if you want to try it go for it--not my fingers that might get blown off.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 3:57:02 AM EDT

Originally Posted By aaronrb204:

Originally Posted By grizzlyarms:
if you reload, you could always make your own brass. kind of a pain though.



out of .45acp brass? that would be a bad idea as gap brass has thicker walls and slightly different dimensions. but if you want to try it go for it--not my fingers that might get blown off.



If you shoot .45 GAP out of a Glock, then you fingers will get blown off anyways.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 4:03:47 AM EDT
It was a mistake and I wish it would die.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 4:47:07 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Bob1984:
It will die unless Glock and other major manufacturers pour enough money into it to keep it going. IMO, I think we should seriously consider returning to the 10mm, it sucks that it's kind of died down like it has Also, I believe .40 S&W doesn't really have much point because there are plenty of 9mm and .45 rounds that do essentially the same thing. I like the idea of the .357 SIG, but I'd rather they had done it with a slightly longer cartridge (perhaps a .45 or 10mm length) so you could get full .357 Mag performance as opposed to .357 snubby light-load performance. I'm well aware of cartridges like the .38 Super and 9mm Win Mag, but they're practically obsolete today.

Ever heard of the .400 Cor-Bon? That might be more your speed. Honestly the .40 and .357 Sig is the result of the '94 AWB. People were looking to get more bang for the buck while being limited to a 10 rd mag. I think if the AWB wasn't ever passed you would probably see more people with 10mm's then there are. There are 4 great defensive loads out there (heavy 9mm's, .357Sig, .40S&W and the .45acp) There is no need for a GAP. I think the 10mm will become more popular and the .45GAP will die a slow death just like the 44auto mag.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 5:09:58 AM EDT
Can anybody say .45 WIN MAG... That's another hot seller today...
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 2:46:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By VTHOKIESHOOTER:
Honestly the .40 and .357 Sig is the result of the '94 AWB. People were looking to get more bang for the buck while being limited to a 10 rd mag. I think if the AWB wasn't ever passed you would probably see more people with 10mm's then there are. There are 4 great defensive loads out there (heavy 9mm's, .357Sig, .40S&W and the .45acp) There is no need for a GAP. I think the 10mm will become more popular and the .45GAP will die a slow death just like the 44auto mag.


I think the .40 is a direct result of the FBI picking a downloaded 10mm instead of a full-power one. A 10mm and .40 would have the same mag capacity, so I don't see how the AWB's 10-round limit has anything to do with that, but the .40 will always be more popular than the 10mm because its lower pressures allow it to be built on a 9mm frame instead of having to be beefier to handle full-power 10mms. The .40 has a place as a compromise between more rounds in a 9mm and bigger bullets in a .45, and I see it becoming more popular as prices come down.

I think .357 Sig is not more popular mostly because it's a bottleneck case, and also because the "light and fast" fad has died out as more people learn more about how wound ballistics really work. The trend back to bigger & heavier bullets could actually help the .45 GAP.

Whether or not the .45 GAP takes off will depend, IMHO, on whether or not pistols come out that take advantage of the size difference to be smaller than a .45 ACP gun, and whether or not users of current 9mm/.40 guns will trade up to the larger bullet if they do.

If a gun is available in both .45 ACP and .45 GAP there's no reason to pick the GAP since it doesn't offer any ballistic advantage and plenty of reasons to pick .45 ACP instead. A 1911 could be chambered for .45 GAP easliy, but who'd buy one?

But I would pick a Glock in .45 GAP with the same size grip as a Glock 23 in .40, because I think the Glock 21 in .45 ACP is too big for my hands. I'm not sure if I'd pick it over the .40 though. That would depend on how much I valued the the extra .05" and whether or not ammo selection picks up for the GAP.

I don't think it would be a big deal for the ammo manufacturers to start making GAP ammo (easier than making .357 Sig since they could use .45 ACP bullets without having to adjust for different velocities, unlike using 9mm bullets in .357 Sig). So if they commit to the idea I think the .45 GAP could live like the .357 Sig has (but never catch or replace .45 ACP) If the non-1911 users stick to .40s then I think it'll die out.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 2:52:37 PM EDT
and didn't springfield armory make a scaled down 1911 for the gap? that might help get some people to move towards it. iirc the frame, slide, etc is all a bit smaller than the standard 1911.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 2:53:27 PM EDT
Yes dumb idea.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 6:42:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AKsRule:
You probably like the Grendel 6.8 SPC, dont you?


Fixed
There is nothing the 6.8 will do that the 7.62X39 can't do, for le$$.
Top Top