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Posted: 12/14/2008 9:45:10 PM EDT
Ok so I have a few carry guns so far. You know.......all chrome nice looking mantle pieces but I am wanting to purchase a nice all around combat pistol with a rail. So here is my question. Which would you go for:
1. Springfield Operator
2. Springfield TRP
3. Kimber Warrior
4. SIG. P220 Combat
5. H&K USP Tactical .45ACP

I am really torn so your feedback will greatly help me in my choice. Please tell me why you chose the gun you did so I can see the pro's and con's of each if ya could. Thanks.
Link Posted: 12/14/2008 9:48:15 PM EDT
[#1]
Buy a Glock and use the remainder of your cash for ammo and training.
Link Posted: 12/14/2008 9:57:41 PM EDT
[#2]
+1 on the Glock, or get an S&W45 if you want a manual safety.
Link Posted: 12/14/2008 9:59:54 PM EDT
[#3]
Quoted:
Buy a Glock and use the remainder of your cash for ammo and training.


yep

Link Posted: 12/14/2008 10:05:40 PM EDT
[#4]
After <ahem> actually reading your preferences, it's pretty clear that 1) you want a "combat" .45, 2) you seem to have your eye on 1911s, and 3) you do NOT want a Glock, I would suggest you go with the MC Operator. The Operator is an affordable  choice for a railed 1911 that can speak for itself out of the box. OTOH, it has evolutionary potential, and makes a perfect platform for a MEUSOC clone.

Link Posted: 12/14/2008 10:12:52 PM EDT
[#5]
Quoted:
Buy a Glock and use the remainder of your cash for ammo and training.


+1

that said, of your choices, my vote would be for the SA MC Operator

ETA: the HK Tactical would be a great option also...save for expense of mags/parts and size
Link Posted: 12/15/2008 12:32:27 AM EDT
[#6]
Already done a Glock 21 and not impressed. Bought a XD-45 bi-tone. Very nice. Soooooo beyond uhm Glock what would you choose from the choices above???????
Link Posted: 12/15/2008 12:51:18 AM EDT
[#7]
The guy who posted after me got 3009 hits in under 4 minutes. I got 49 hits in 3 hours. Never mind guys I'll figure it out myself.
Link Posted: 12/15/2008 1:28:14 AM EDT
[#8]
Best Springfield 1911 you can afford.  You should also look at Dan Wesson 1911s, which are very good as well.
Link Posted: 12/15/2008 6:41:52 AM EDT
[#9]
I would look at the FNP-45 I recently faced the same decision and am now sold on the FNP 45 and am just trying to find one witht the saftey.
Link Posted: 12/15/2008 7:03:25 AM EDT
[#10]
sig p229
by swapping the barrels only, u have your choice of three calibers, 9mm, .40s&W, and .357sig.  plus lifetime warranty from sig, and there are tons of accessories available, and the rail has three slots, unlike some that only have one.  
Link Posted: 12/15/2008 7:24:37 AM EDT
[#11]
Glock 17
Link Posted: 12/15/2008 8:07:10 AM EDT
[#12]
Quoted:
After <ahem> actually reading your preferences, it's pretty clear that 1) you want a "combat" .45, 2) you seem to have your eye on 1911s, and 3) you do NOT want a Glock, I would suggest you go with the MC Operator. The Operator is an affordable  choice for a railed 1911 that can speak for itself out of the box. OTOH, it has evolutionary potential, and makes a perfect platform for a MEUSOC clone.



+1 After shooting my first 1911 I was sold on the platform.
Link Posted: 12/15/2008 8:09:31 AM EDT
[#13]


Buy a Mil-Spec or GI and send it to a good gunsmith so you can have a Dawson rail and all of the bells and whistles installed.

Link Posted: 12/15/2008 8:15:03 AM EDT
[#14]
Box #1
Link Posted: 12/15/2008 8:24:24 AM EDT
[#15]
The 1911 stopped being an all around combat handgun decades ago. When combat evolved.

Link Posted: 12/15/2008 8:37:52 AM EDT
[#16]
Of those listed I prefer the SIG P-220 .45.
Link Posted: 12/15/2008 9:08:49 AM EDT
[#17]
I would have a kimber 1911 if I could afford it.
Link Posted: 12/15/2008 9:27:40 AM EDT
[#18]
Quoted:
Of those listed I prefer the SIG P-220 .45.


+1
Link Posted: 12/15/2008 9:28:21 AM EDT
[#19]
Ill probably get a lot of flack for this but Im gonna make a suggestion. I own two colt 1911's and 2 glocks (17 & 19)  but for my "combat gun" Ive chosen a Beretta m9. Heres why.....

1. Combat Proven
2. + P ammo safe
3. Doubla action, single action + manual safety (doesnt get any safer than that!)
4. Chrome lined barrel
5. Easy to disassemble and clean
6. Durable finish
7. 18 rd. capacity w/ mec gar optimum mags

From what I understand. Beretta now offers an M9A1 Model that has a rail as well. Here it is.....
https://www.shopberetta.com/e2wProductGroupDetailDropDown.aspx?parentid=4100001489&parentLink=2100000084:3100001364:3100001368:4100001489

Plus it is far cheaper then any of the high end 1911's.
Link Posted: 12/15/2008 9:32:26 AM EDT
[#20]
M9 I think not.  
The Glock is the better choice.  Just ask some vets who saw combat on a regular basis in Iraq or Afghanistan.  It's not too combat proven.  Besides your 1911 is combat proven more than that M9.  

Anyway, Glock is your choice as it may not be combat proven but it sure as heck is Cop proven.  
Link Posted: 12/15/2008 10:07:56 AM EDT
[#21]
Quoted:
Ill probably get a lot of flack for this but Im gonna make a suggestion. I own two colt 1911's and 2 glocks (17 & 19)  but for my "combat gun" Ive chosen a Beretta m9. Heres why.....

1. Combat Proven
2. + P ammo safe
3. Doubla action, single action + manual safety (doesnt get any safer than that!)
4. Chrome lined barrel
5. Easy to disassemble and clean
6. Durable finish
7. 18 rd. capacity w/ mec gar optimum mags

From what I understand. Beretta now offers an M9A1 Model that has a rail as well. Here it is.....
https://www.shopberetta.com/e2wProductGroupDetailDropDown.aspx?parentid=4100001489&parentLink=2100000084:3100001364:3100001368:4100001489

Plus it is far cheaper then any of the high end 1911's.



I don't mind this suggestion. If the M9 was as easy to detail strip for parts replacement as the Glock, it would rank higher on my list than it already is.
Link Posted: 12/15/2008 10:27:26 AM EDT
[#22]
Get the Operator.  Very versitile and a sweet, sweet weapon.  I regret selling mine (diamond rings are expensive).  3000 rounds and never missed a beat.  I couldn't get it to jam, trigger was superb and it was accurate as hell.  You won't be disappointed.  I've got a Glock 17, its nice, but its nothing compared to a quality 1911.
Link Posted: 12/15/2008 10:37:43 AM EDT
[#23]
For a combat handgun, I would want the highest capacity mag I could get. With the .45 being your choice of caliber, I would say that narrows your choices down.

    I'm a Glock fan (apparently so are a few others in this thread) but I have owned a few HK's and were impressed them. I chose Glocks because of the price for mags, parts and other goodies.

    I have owned a 1911-type firearm (Springfield) and have shot some high dollar .45's. They are fun to shoot but the mag capacity always had me looking elsewhere when it came to a self-defense weapon.

Link Posted: 12/15/2008 10:57:45 AM EDT
[#24]
I'd choose none of the above.

You won't find a bigger 1911 proponent than me, but if I'm going into a fight, I want the biggest mag capacity I can reasonably get.  This, regrettably, leaves the 1911 on the sidelines.  (The 2011 is a different story, but let's not digress.)

The HK would be the closest thing in your list, but their proprietary light rail is a pain.

Springfield's XD, S&W's M&P or the Glock 21SF would be a better choice, IMO, if you intend to stick with .45 ACP.
Link Posted: 12/15/2008 11:08:08 AM EDT
[#25]
Quoted:
    For a combat handgun, I would want the highest capacity mag I could get. With the .45 being you choice of caliber, I would say that narrows your choices down.

    I'm a Glock fan (apparently so are a few others in this thread) but I have owned a few HK's and were impressed them. I chose Glocks because of the price for mags, parts and other goodies.

    I have owned a 1911-type firearm (Springfield) and have shot some high dollar .45's. They are fun to shoot but the mag capacity always had me looking elsewhere when it came to a self-defense weapon.



Telling the truth I was always bugged by this:



So I got these:




Link Posted: 12/15/2008 11:14:21 AM EDT
[#26]
GLOCK 21.

If you weren't impressed by handling a 21, check out bigbore's classic thread and tell me you're not impressed.
Link Posted: 12/15/2008 11:31:45 AM EDT
[#27]
Quoted:
GLOCK 21.

If you weren't impressed by handling a 21, check out bigbore's classic thread and tell me you're not impressed.


I was very impressed by that thread, and I was set on getting a G21. Then I shot one, and a 1911 on the same day. The 1911 fit like a glove, it pointed naturally for me, and I was out shooting more experienced people..... not much more experienced people mind you , but I could see clearly that the platform works in my hands, FAR better than what I could do with the G21. In my opinion I'd rather work WITH the gun, than against it.

If you're a clutz who is prone to pulling back the slide of your gun and throwing it into sand or dirt, or you have the nasty habit of just randomly throwing it out of planes, if you don't feel like ever cleaning or lubing your gun, a G21 would be a good choice for you.

If your concern is getting more shots on target in less time, if you feel like a gun is a life saving tool- and that your life and the life of your loved ones is too precious to make "cheap" a requirement for a such a tool, if you're willing to treat your gun with respect (note: this does not mean 'baby it'!) and use quality magazines and ammo - The 1911 should be a major contender on your list.

If you feel pressured into getting something you don't want because people tell you that you want it- you'll quite possibly end up getting it and saying, "man I hate this f**kin thing." or "I wish I got ____ instead."

The G21 is a good gun for sure, but don't feel pressured into getting one OP.

I vote TRP baby!
Link Posted: 12/16/2008 8:15:57 AM EDT
[#28]
You have lots of great choices available, most of which are fine handguns of varying price but really it's a matter of preference.

For non-1911 platform, I suggest:
M&P 45
FNP 45
HK45
XD or XDM

etc
Link Posted: 12/16/2008 9:01:27 AM EDT
[#29]
I have a Sig 220 Combat T.B. and its a great gun. It is hard to find holsters for it, but the pistol is built like a tank and maintains the accuracy Sig is known for.
Link Posted: 12/16/2008 9:57:46 AM EDT
[#30]
Link Posted: 12/16/2008 1:57:14 PM EDT
[#31]
Quoted:
If the 1911 is what "clicks" with you and you shoot better with it, great! Then it's what you should be using.

But there's nothing inherent about the 1911 that universally (meaning for all users) allows the shooter to put more shots on target in less time (compared to the G21).

Both are quite successful in competition where speed is king.




That may be true if you shoot the 1911 and 21 equally well; the OP, and I, shoot the 1911 so much better that it is worth the tradeoff of hicap.

When you throw in the fact that 1911 mags tuck in so nicely next to your hip, the capacity issue is partially mollified.



Link Posted: 12/16/2008 2:05:40 PM EDT
[#32]
Link to classic thread please?
Quoted:
GLOCK 21.

If you weren't impressed by handling a 21, check out bigbore's classic thread and tell me you're not impressed.


Link Posted: 12/19/2008 3:51:27 AM EDT
[#33]
I forgot I posted this thread. I didn't figure anyone else would respond. Thanks to all for the responses. I seen a lot of pro-Glock posts. I am not knocking Glocks they are good guns and I loved my G21 but I dropped it on concrete by accident and it shot good but not great so I sold it for what I bought it for. If it gets dropped and scratched it gets sold. Didn't shoot great??? Maybe it was something I was doing wrong. Maybe............. but after 3 and 1/2 years of pistol shooting every other week in the USMC I beg to differ on my pistol skill's. I am actually better at shooting a pistol than shooting an M4 with and Aimpoint and I don't know why. Anyways I seen alot of posts for the 1911 so that narrow's it down for me I guess. So it comes down to the TRP, Operator or Kimber Warrior. Any idea's???? I really want a magwell on any 1911 I purchase so that leaves the TRP though does the TRP embody a true combat handgun??????? Seems to be from what I read but what do you think??? Can Sig's sturdy body or H&K's high capacity and great legacy overcome the 1911"s reputation. Let me know.
Link Posted: 12/19/2008 4:57:25 AM EDT
[#34]
I would look for a West German made P-220. Every now and again an online vendor will have them from the Sig CPO program. Expect to pay around the mid 5 bills range.


You will have a reliable, accurate combat handgun with cash left over for ammo & magazines.
Link Posted: 12/19/2008 8:29:19 AM EDT
[#35]
Quoted:
M9 I think not.  
The Glock is the better choice.  Just ask some vets who saw combat on a regular basis in Iraq or Afghanistan.  It's not too combat proven.  Besides your 1911 is combat proven more than that M9.  

Anyway, Glock is your choice as it may not be combat proven but it sure as heck is Cop proven.  


I have.  And some give it the thumbs up.  Some that I would trust completely.  CombatDiver is one such and not the only one.  That said, others have said thumbs down.  But either way.  I like my M9.  I trust it the most, but I have the most amount of rounds through it.
Link Posted: 12/19/2008 9:02:14 AM EDT
[#36]
Quoted:
+1 on the Glock, or get an S&W45 if you want a manual safety.



Agreed, S&W M&P45 is an amazing hondgun, has options of a thumb safety, great gun and great company. Much better feel than a Glock, not as blocky and actually fits your hand. People complain about it only having a 10-round capacity but then preach about 1911's which have 7 or 8 round capacity. Not overly expensive and currently a factory rebate of $50 or 2 mags, use the money you save on training and ammo.

If that doesn't fit your fancy then an MC Operator is a great out of the box 1911.
Link Posted: 12/19/2008 9:57:56 AM EDT
[#37]
I absolutely love the 1911 platform, i will be buyin another as soon as funds permit. That said, I have nevershot a handgun I liked more than my H&K USP .45 tactical.  Eveyone who complains about the expense of this gun is correct, they are pricy, But this is the gun that I shoot more accurately than any other, so to me, it's worth it.   GG&G makes a very low profile rail adapter that i dont even notice under my TLR-2 light laser. This gun has functioned flawlessly from day 1 with everything from FMJ, +P hollowpoints, reloads to lead semi wadcutters, and is an absolute joy to shoot. The only people who hate H&K are those who have never owned one.
Link Posted: 12/19/2008 10:38:50 AM EDT
[#38]
TRP FTMFW
Link Posted: 12/19/2008 6:42:47 PM EDT
[#39]
Quoted:
The only people who hate H&K are those who have never owned one.


Eh, I've owned a couple and while I can't summon enough emotion about HK one way or the other to say I "hate" them, I probably won't be considering them for another handgun anytime in the foreseeable future.

And what's the USP Tac running these days, $800?  If you think that's a pricey handgun, you need to get out more.  
Link Posted: 12/19/2008 9:05:11 PM EDT
[#40]
Most people dont' want to hear it but I feel the G19 is the best all around combat handgun out there.  Holds as many rounds as a M9, accurate, lighter than an M9, smaller than an M9, small enough to conceal but large enough to be taken seriously on the range and out in the real world (still shootable unlike the G26 and other subcompacts).  That's just my opinion.....

CMS
Link Posted: 12/19/2008 9:42:49 PM EDT
[#41]
Quoted:
sig p229
by swapping the barrels only, u have your choice of three calibers, 9mm, .40s&W, and .357sig.  plus lifetime warranty from sig, and there are tons of accessories available, and the rail has three slots, unlike some that only have one.  
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7e/P229_blk.jpg


+1 I am buying one myself that I saw in 40 cal and going to get the 357sig barrel
Link Posted: 12/19/2008 9:46:46 PM EDT
[#42]
Have you looked at the Beretta PX4 series? and what others have said the Sig 220, HK USP, HK45.  It comes down to what feels comfortable in your hand metal or plastic, what you shoot better and what caliber/options you want.
Link Posted: 12/20/2008 12:53:51 AM EDT
[#43]
Quoted:
Quoted:
The only people who hate H&K are those who have never owned one.


Eh, I've owned a couple and while I can't summon enough emotion about HK one way or the other to say I "hate" them, I probably won't be considering them for another handgun anytime in the foreseeable future.

And what's the USP Tac running these days, $800?  If you think that's a pricey handgun, you need to get out more.  


$800 isn't bad at all on a pistol. I paid $1100 for a S&W500 when they first came out. Drop in the bucket. So if H&K isn't prefered what would you go with. All around end of the world, out in the wilderness defending the family, primary weapon out of ammo backup pistol??????

Link Posted: 12/20/2008 9:11:42 PM EDT
[#44]
+1 on the TRP, I myself own a USP45 Tactical and a HK45c, I always thought I would never buy a 1911 series weapon after being an HK snob. But I picked a TRP and it shoots damn accurate and also with the election stuff a 1911 is a classic handgun to own for a collection. Havn't had any hiccups yet with the gun and its running pretty smooth. Its a fun gun to shoot. The HKs are very nice and reliable ran through 1200 rounds on the HK45c so far and no malfunctions whatsoever which is my current conceal carry. My TRP is my nightstand gun which definitely will get the job done.
Link Posted: 12/20/2008 9:54:25 PM EDT
[#45]
Trp if your not going to use Lights or lasers which arent really nescesary any way.

Link Posted: 12/20/2008 10:25:14 PM EDT
[#46]
Sig 220 or Springfield XD - 45 ACP All the way.
Link Posted: 12/21/2008 6:33:38 AM EDT
[#47]
HK, After buying a HK USP (9mm) I'm selling my XD45...there's no compairson between the two, The HK is a much higher quality peice, considering that the new "improved" XD M is selling (at least around here) for almost as much as I paid for my USP, you'd be foolish to buy the XD...The XD's have too many little problems..HK's don't. If were considering a handgun  to possibly stake my life on, I'd look at HK, I would'nt bother with any production 1911's as most will need some tweaking to get them 100% (I own 2 1911's so, I'm not running off at the mouth) Beretta M9's will also work well, The U.S. military's problems with the M9 stem from the fact they don't maintain them very well, (little things like changing recoil springs) the use of mags that were rough parked on the inside (why?)  use factory mags, or Meggar's change the recoil springs when you're supposed to and you'll have few if any problems. They are very accurate out of the box, My short list of reliable handguns out of the box are;
HK USP LEM or possibly a P30 LEM
Beretta M9
Glock
S&W M&P45

I've shot a few Glocks in the past, I don't care for the grip angle, it feels uncomfortable to me, but they DO work and are reasonably accurate and reliable..The S&W M&P series is also another pistol worth considering I've got the mid size (4"bbl) and it's a great CCW accurate reliable Mine has a low round count (about 500rnds) so far, NO failures of any kind It's good to go, the trigger could use some improvement but after shooting it a little it smoothed up and is useable, but still, could be improved Interchangable backstraps are excellent! you can taylor the pistol to your hands.These are also reasonably priced, Much better bargin than a XD, considering the price point...
Link Posted: 12/21/2008 6:45:45 AM EDT
[#48]
If it had to be a .45 and I was for sure taking it into combat where it would see use, I would pick a Glock 21.
Link Posted: 12/21/2008 7:50:45 AM EDT
[#49]
Among those choices, SIG.
Link Posted: 12/21/2008 9:18:18 AM EDT
[#50]
FNP-45.

14 or 15 +1 capacity depending on mags, very very accurate, utterly reliable (unless you are using wimpy SWC handloads that belong in plinker class 1911s from a bygone era), metal work/machining on a quality level of the most expensive auto loaders out there,  and a tremendous value at it's price point.  

And it's far far more ergonomic than any Glock 21, even the SF.

It's the combat handgun Sig wishes   they could build now a days.
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