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1/22/2020 12:12:56 PM
Posted: 4/14/2008 5:23:59 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/27/2008 3:27:10 AM EST by Cheesebeast]
[Update: Initial Range Report page 2]

Howdy all,

I have been burned in the past purchasing brand new models. I don't want to be an unpaid beta tester, but I have found myself in that role more times than I want to admit.

The Walther PPS looks to be the concealment 9mm I have been looking for. It has a very slim slide, usable sights, acceptable magazine capacity, light weight, and the price is reasonable. Yes, I have had a Kahr and to be frank it didn't deliver the goods.

The "First edition" model of the PPS appears to have had some teething issues. From owner reports I have gleaned it suffered from a few potential flaws, including:
1. Finish problems (no big deal).
2. Slide locking back due to the slide catch spring coming out of its detent and gumming up the works- is this fixed? Not fixed?
3. Backstraps have a set of ?tabs? that could be fragile, and if they fail then the pistol could be disabled? Is this a real problem (failure in the field) or a "could be" problem?

Finally, how have you owners found the reliability of the pistol with the different capacity magazines? As I understand it the pistol comes with a 6 and a 7 round magazine. There are 8 round mags available (actually- are they? How is magazine availability for this model)?

Again, I am ready to purchase. I just need to know what I am getting myself in for. To use the old Spanish yarn:
"A once scalded cat is even afraid of cold water."
Link Posted: 4/14/2008 4:52:23 PM EST
Tag for interest in this gun...

I've had good luck with my Kahr P9 and PM9 but I do admitt my first P9 sucked.

I waited a year and a half and bought another P9 and it runs like a sewing machine.

Trigger is just a little long and I hope the Walther trigger is more..... Glock-Like
Link Posted: 4/18/2008 4:17:48 PM EST
Do you mean PPK/S?
Link Posted: 4/19/2008 2:58:48 AM EST
Nope, PPS. It is a small 9mm polymer framed handgun produced by Walther.

They have been out for about two years now, IIRC.
Link Posted: 4/19/2008 5:38:55 AM EST
I have one of these pistols, one of the first "limited edition" runs. There were some initial difficulties with extraction but these smoothed out nicely after a dose of heavy lubrication which I later took off and now it seems to run 100%. I guess I have put 6-700 rounds through it by now, and don't notice any difference in performance in any of the three magazines it came with. I will say I have an impression it is more susceptible to "limp wristing" problems if anything.

Unfortunately, most of the high-end holster makers (like Sparks) don't seem to see enough demand to gear up and produce good holsters for the pistol, so that is a kind of make do situation for now.

I think this is a fine product and, although not a handsome gun, is certainly highly functional. The famous flatness of the design is worth the price of admission for me, after squeezing into my pants with a firearm too many times and having my pants dragged off by wonderful pistols that are just too heavy and too thick to be comfortable.


Link Posted: 4/19/2008 3:14:13 PM EST

Originally Posted By Tirador223:


I think this is a fine product and, although not a handsome gun, is certainly highly functional. The famous flatness of the design is worth the price of admission for me, after squeezing into my pants with a firearm too many times and having my pants dragged off by wonderful pistols that are just too heavy and too thick to be comfortable.




Howdy Tirador,

That is the main reason I am looking at the Walther PPS. Slim really makes a difference. I currently carry a G19, a pistol that I think sets the bar for performance/size ratio. My main issue with it is the thickness of the slide, which I have found sometimes limits my carry options. I want something I can shoot better than a J frame (shooter, not necc. the weapon) but still have more power than a .380.

I am going to roll the dice on the Walther.

Thanks for responding!
Link Posted: 4/19/2008 4:41:41 PM EST
I have one and eats any 9mm that I feed it with no complaints. My only complaints are lack of mags and holsters (I am having a holster built for mine by a local Kydex guy).
Link Posted: 4/21/2008 5:46:50 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/21/2008 5:49:20 PM EST by Tirador223]


Thanks for responding!


Happy to pass on my thoughts. I think you'll be pleased with the pistol and hope you'll come back and report your impressions.

Edited to add: there is a lot of information available here: Walther PPS Forum


Link Posted: 4/29/2008 2:20:16 PM EST
What do you folks think is the best ammo for the PPS in terms of brand?

Link Posted: 5/2/2008 8:09:04 AM EST
I have some gold dot 124gr +p, I tested it and it works in my PPS.
Link Posted: 5/8/2008 3:50:05 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/8/2008 3:50:32 AM EST by fmiq]
I just picked one up, the only problem I see with the PPS is finding one. I got a DeSantis holster that is very nice. Put about a 100 rounds of mixed JHP and ball without a hickup. This will become my carry piece unless something changes!
Link Posted: 5/11/2008 12:16:18 AM EST

Originally Posted By Cheesebeast:
Nope, PPS. It is a small 9mm polymer framed handgun produced by Walther.

They have been out for about two years now, IIRC.


HA! I have yet to see one in a gun shop.
Link Posted: 5/18/2008 12:29:06 PM EST
Is this gun only the .380 or is it also available in a 9mm parabellum? Thanks!
Link Posted: 5/18/2008 2:59:25 PM EST
It is in 9mm with .40sw coming soon.....

Any updates from owners...? Torture testing..??
Link Posted: 5/18/2008 4:16:03 PM EST
Not to sound stupid...cause i'm fairly new to guns. But I know .380 is 9mm, but is it the same as a 9mm parabellum? Would I be able to use 9x19 in it? Sorry if I wasn't clear the first time. Thanks!
Link Posted: 5/18/2008 4:40:23 PM EST
I handled one in 40S&W on Sat. I was impressed by how light and flat it was. The mag. release is a little difficult to operate for me. I think the price was somewhere in the $650 area. I will try to find one in 9mm though.

Peter3
Link Posted: 5/18/2008 5:52:28 PM EST
The PPS is not a 380, it is a 9mm and will also be offered in 40 S&W. The 380 is a PP, PPK or PPK/S.
Link Posted: 5/18/2008 6:52:25 PM EST
Ahhhhh......that explains it then! Thanks for the information!
Link Posted: 5/19/2008 3:27:07 AM EST
.380 is the American designation for 9x17 which is metric measurement a.k.a. 9mm kurtz (which means 9mm short)

9x18 is Makarov ammo

9x19 is what Americans call 9mm a.k.a. 9mm parabelum,9mm nato

9x21 is a competition round seldom used for defense.

Hope that helps....
Link Posted: 5/22/2008 6:08:20 AM EST
I found a PPS at a local shop and put it on hold. I hope to pick up my PPS this weekend. I will post range results as soon as I can.

I now regret letting a buddy borrow my chronograph...

Hope springs eternal!
Link Posted: 5/22/2008 6:44:49 AM EST
Link Posted: 5/22/2008 7:10:51 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/22/2008 7:11:14 AM EST by Cheesebeast]
Howdy MRW,

I dunno about the trigger reset on the PPS you examined.

The pistol is striker fired (ala Glock), so the trigger is meant to stay to the rear of the frame until the slide is fully retracted and returned to battery. The Kahr triggers are spring loaded to reset, but they too are striker fired IIRC- which means no second strike capability (true double action).

The magazine floorplates are large as they are meant to lock the backstrap in place. I agree they are ugly, but then again, the pistol as a whole isn't going to win any beauty contests anytime soon.

The G36 I used to own also had large floorplates on them. I hope the PPS will not pinch my fingers when it is fired like the G36 sometimes did.

I haven't owned a Kahr in a decade+, so I won't gore anyones favorite ox.
Link Posted: 5/22/2008 8:59:46 AM EST
Link Posted: 5/22/2008 9:51:51 AM EST
Ah, if that is the case then I will see your

And raise you

I will make sure to post my range results with the new PPS- warts and all!
Link Posted: 5/23/2008 2:20:13 PM EST
I just bought a PPS and took it straight to the range and put 200 rounds through it, without issue.

I am very happy with it thus far, and boy is it slim.
Link Posted: 5/24/2008 10:38:55 AM EST
How is the trigger reset rihno..???????????/
Link Posted: 5/26/2008 12:09:38 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/26/2008 12:19:07 PM EST by Cheesebeast]
Initial Range Report

I added the Walther PPS to the stable this weekend. It is an all black model- not the "First Edition" model. It was made in 2007 judging by the date code on the slide and the serial number is AB116x. After dousing it in Breakfree I took it to the range. It ripped through 225 rounds of various makes. There were two failures to eject in the first 50 rounds, which made me concerned. The empty case was sitting wedged into the ejection "window" in the slide. I then purposefully attempted to get the pistol to jam by shooting it with a "limp wrist". I couldn't make it fail-even with some particularly weaksauce Remington UMC FMJ loads I had.

The pistol is pretty much a copy of the Glock, at least internally. The trigger pull isn't that great- pull weight isn't bad, but there are several burrs on the internal parts that cause the pull to be "crunchy". Hopefully this will smooth out over time- or I can figure out how to disassemble the pistol fully and smooth those burrs out manually. The pull isn't great, but what I don't like is the slow trigger reset. There is something dragging internally that is slowing the reset down. When I got home I put some anti-seize compound on the relevant metal surfaces- tiny amounts- using a toothpick. The trigger pull improved considerably, and the trigger reset improved as well.

The sights aren't bad- but the pistol shoots low and to the left with all of the brands of ammunition I tried in it. There should be replacement sight blades available soon. I know a Walther gunsmith (he lives in Mass) as I used to rely on him to keep my Walther OSP Rapid Fire Match pistol working properly. He will have all the parts necessary to make any alterations that are needed, or to do the trigger job if I want. The front sight has a number on it, and according to the manual I can replace it with a different height to sight the pistol in. The manual says each "number" front sight alters impact 2". Unfortunately they didn't list the distance at which the impact difference would be noted.

The recoil of the pistol was a surprise. If anything, the amount of muzzle jump is less (!) than the G19. Once the trigger gets sorted out this pistol will be a solid shooter- accuracy was close to what I can do with the G19. It is "head shot capable". The recoil of the 124gr +P Speer Gold Dot loads was no issue at all- the sights settle right down and quick!

The stubby 6 round mag (they also include a 7 rounder with a larger floorplate) made it so you can't get all your fingers on the frame. I ordered some extra 7 round magazines for it. They are on backorder.

The dimensions of the pistol are impressive. It is the same size as the Sig 232 .380 I have. The slide of the PPS measures .910" across. The frame matches the width of the side, so it is on compact beast indeed. The only thing that protrudes slightly is the slide release tab (and to a lesser degree the takedown "tabs").

The barrel is conventionally rifled- not the polygonal stuff that Glock uses. There are two mainsprings used in the PPS- this is pretty common on subcompacts. One spring is nested inside the other on the guide rod. The ejection port of the slide is shaped to aid in clearing empties- it is a good idea and I even like the looks of it.

The pistol is striker fired- like the Glock. The trigger has a small tab on the face of it that operates as a "safety"- just like the Glock. There is no decocker or other nonsense on the pistol. There is no magazine trigger disconnect either- the weapon will fire with the magazine removed.

The magazine ejection button is more of a tab- it forms part of the trigger guard. You use your trigger finger to operate it. You get used to it, and it is ambidextrous. Magazines pop right out, which is nice.

I made the pistol fit my hand a little better by taking the backstrap of the pistol off (it is shipped with a small backstrap installed) and replacing it with the large backstrap (they give you two backstraps). Walther tells you to remove the backstrap when you are disassembling the pistol, but that isn't necessary. I would rather not touch the backstrap, as it is relatively fragile. If you remove the backstrap then the trigger mechanism is disabled. I say leave it on and forget about it.

To take the slide off the pistol you clear the chamber, squeeze the trigger, and then pull down the take down tabs that are directly above the trigger. The slide will slide forward a small bit, and you can then take it off. Easy as pie!

The pistol feels more dense than the Glock, but it is a bit lighter in weight. The difference in slide thickness is obvious and it is significant. To put things in perspective, the PPS is to the G19 as the G19 is to the G20. I wish I could post pics, as a pic would say a thousand words on the size of the PPS.

The PPS will be a more comfortable carry gun than my usual G19. It beats a J Frame Smith any day of the week on the range, too. All in all the pistol is a keeper. I don't expect a return of the failures to eject. I do expect the trigger pull to improve with use. I paid $569 for the pistol, and I think it is a good "deal" considering the prices of imported goods today.

My chronograph is currently loaned to a friend. I will report velocity results with some different carry loads as soon as I can- later this summer most likely.

Thanks again to all the PPS owners on this thread who took the time to respond!
Link Posted: 5/28/2008 9:29:56 AM EST
Cheesebeast,

Nice write up.
Link Posted: 5/28/2008 10:38:40 AM EST
Link Posted: 5/28/2008 11:10:18 AM EST
Thanks Sterling.

I will be putting a lot of rounds through my PPS. One observation I forgot to note was when I was finished my initial shooting session my hands didn't have a mark on them- no redness, no pinching, no missing skin (I bear scars from my Detonics Combat Master and a Walther PPK I used to own). The Detonics was the worst- it had a chopped off grip safety and if you didn't pay attention and crowded up on the frame you were rewarded by two parallel lacerations over the web of your hand. "Dude, you are bleeding," was something shooting buddies would inform me on occasion.

The magazines for the PPS are expensive at this point- $50.00 each is average and they appear to be in short supply. They are made by Mecgar (they are not stamped as such but "Made in Italy" leads me to believe that is the case).

My PPS came with a test target that was shot at 10m and a fired cartridge case. I couldn't resist looking over the case and I didn't recognize the brand stamp. Perhaps it is Walther's "house ammo"?

The trigger can be improved in my opinion, as almost all the surfaces involved are metal on metal contact.

Holsters are also pretty rare. I found that a holster for a Springfield XD Compact was close enough in fit and I am using that until I can get a nicer rig made by Sparks or perhaps Kramer.

MRW, is there a local range that rents pistols? Before long I bet you will be able to "try before you buy" to remove all doubt. I get nervous buying a new carry gun as I have been disappointed in the past. Or maybe I am just fickle? I dunno.

Link Posted: 5/28/2008 3:15:37 PM EST
Link Posted: 5/29/2008 3:35:04 AM EST
Congrats on your new rig, MRW!

Florida is certainly a place I will packing my PPS. My in-laws have a place just north of Daytona Beach and Florida has reciprocity with NH.

I expect the heat and humidity of Florida would make a compact handgun a necessity. I wouldn't want to wear a suitcoat in Florida in August, in other words.

Anyway, enjoy your PPS- I look forward to putting some more rounds through mine this weekend.
Link Posted: 5/29/2008 6:05:18 PM EST
Link Posted: 5/30/2008 6:06:47 AM EST
Howdy MRW,

The floorplates are indeed goofy. I had a G36, which also suffered from the same condition. I am not overly impressed with the current trend of chopping off the frame to aid in concealment.

Anyhoo the PPS is most impressive product I have seen from Walther in a long time. A buddy loves his P99, and I admit it is a sweet shooter (his is in .40S&W). The double action pull on it is simply horrific, however.

Out of curiosity what number is the front sight on your PPS? Mine is marked "4" and the rear is marked "2". I think I need a "3" to sight the pistol in properly.

Hopefully night sights will be available soon.



Link Posted: 5/30/2008 12:00:06 PM EST
Link Posted: 5/31/2008 1:58:13 PM EST
Link Posted: 6/2/2008 3:38:21 PM EST
height=8
Originally Posted By MONGO45:
How is the trigger reset rihno..???????????/


It leaves a lot to be desired, but I think the gun is a pretty good compromise overall to get skinny.

BTW- I am biased by my other Pistols (Kimbers Mostly)
Link Posted: 6/2/2008 3:40:47 PM EST
Originally Posted By Cheesebeast:
Initial Range Report



The pistol is pretty much a copy of the Glock, at least internally. The trigger pull isn't that great- pull weight isn't bad, but there are several burrs on the internal parts that cause the pull to be "crunchy". quote]

I agree, the crunchy comment is the best way to describe it.
Link Posted: 6/2/2008 6:33:32 PM EST
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 4:56:37 AM EST
here are some pics
mine has 400 rounds through with no hiccups and i think it is the best 9mm for ccw on the market
also there are a lot of holsters around just have to look
http://ppstalk.com/forum/default.asp




Link Posted: 7/19/2008 1:40:45 PM EST

Originally Posted By MONGO45:
Tag for interest in this gun...

....

Trigger is just a little long and I hope the Walther trigger is more..... Glock-Like


Thats what im looking for on this one vs my PM9- shorter reset. On the PM9 the trigger comes just about all the way out before the reset, how bout on the PPS?
Link Posted: 7/20/2008 4:25:17 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/20/2008 4:26:12 AM EST by NoComp]
I almost bought one at a Gunshow this weekend.
The zip ties used to wrap around the trigger/grip caused the trigger safety to no longer work when the zip tie was removed. The trigger safety was compressed inside the trigger and the trigger could be pulled without engaging the safety with the trigger finger.

Edit - I bought a Kahr PM9 for a pocket gun instead
Link Posted: 7/20/2008 4:28:05 PM EST

Originally Posted By Discus89:

Originally Posted By MONGO45:
Tag for interest in this gun...

....

Trigger is just a little long and I hope the Walther trigger is more..... Glock-Like


Thats what im looking for on this one vs my PM9- shorter reset. On the PM9 the trigger comes just about all the way out before the reset, how bout on the PPS?


Trigger reset is pretty short and the trigger IMO is way more crisp than a mushy Glock trigger.

Link Posted: 7/25/2008 1:42:28 AM EST
PPS is a great gun, very accurate but I would prefer a number 3 front sight for it. Getting holsters has been slightly difficult but they are out there. My local gun shop had the mags on backorder so I went online and got some extra 7rd mags for 50 shipped. expensive but I am glad to have them. The 7rd mags are the most popular and I've seen guys wiling to trade their 6rd for 7rd. The 8rd is just too big and defeats the purpose of ccw IMO. Glad you are liking it Cheesebeast and thanks for the great range report!
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