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9/19/2017 7:27:10 PM
Posted: 2/6/2006 9:16:33 PM EDT
Ok, someone school me on these.
I am looking into buying a PP, PPK, or PPK/S.
I would prefer a German made pistol.
So if someone could school me on sources, cost, maybe some pics, etc, I would really appreciate it.
Thanks in advance.
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 6:42:54 PM EDT
Come on people, someone here has to know something!
Natty Bumpo
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 7:01:12 PM EDT
PPK is expensive and I don't think there's a lot imported to US.

PPK/S is the US version of PPK made with PPK barrel on US made frame? Somebody correct me.

PP can be bought at a decent price: aimsurplus.com

http://aimsurplus.com/acatalog/German_Walther_PP32_.32acp_Pistol.html

I won't trust my life on .32. I am no James Bond.
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 7:06:52 PM EDT
If you really want a PPK-type pocket pistol, just get the Polish P-64. The price is about right too at $140.

Southernohiogun.com

And here's the review:

http://www.surplusrifle.com/shooting2005/polishp64vsppk/index.asp

In personal experience, that DA is unpullable for me. But some members on this board suggested swapping out some springs with PPK to make the DA workable.

Hope this helps.
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 7:25:58 PM EDT
Not a life trsuting pistol, don't worry.
Always wanted a German Walther PP series pistol - my uncle has one, and I love it.
They are great fun little guns to shoot.
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 8:11:45 PM EDT
My Dad has a Walther PP in .22lr it is a great gun. We have shot thousands of round through that gun with out any problems.

The pp 22 is hard to find.

But you can find a .32 PP very cheap.
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 4:36:34 AM EDT
The Walther PP is a good pistol for the prices they are currently available at. The PP was designed as the Polizeipistole around 1929 and in 1931 came out a the PPk, or kurz/short version.
After the 1968 import restrictions the PPK/S, a PPK slide on a PP frame was imported and finally the guns were made under license in the States.

PP and PPks in .22 l.r. are kind of rare and not cheap. The reason that the Ulm and Manurhin made .32 guns are so inexpensive, is because they are surplus weapons.

They are well made and can be quite accurate with good ammo. I found that PPs with WW Silvertips are a good combination - for accuracy.
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 12:14:28 PM EDT
As far as I know, European production of the Walther PP series has ended, so no new guns are available.

Currently S&W is producing new PPK/s and I think PPK pistols here in the US.

As for having a "German" gun, there ARE NONE, and there haven't been since 1945.
A little known fact is, that after WWII the Walther company contracted with the French Manurhin company to produce Walther firearms.

After Walther took back production of most guns like the P-38, they left production of the PP series guns in France.
Manurhin produced the guns, they were trucked over the German border to the Walther plant at Ulm, proof fired, stamped "Made in Germany, blued and sold all over the world as German made guns.

To be fair, in Europe this is a common industrial practice, and the country where a gun is proof tested is considered to be the country of manufacture.

All this was made public in the early 1970's when Interarms began producing Walther PP series guns in the USA.
Over the years, the gun magazines did their routine "round-up" articles on pocket autos, and the Walther's were always described as "Typical German quality" and " Great Teutonic workmanship".

After Interarms began production, these same writers blandly informed us that the French had been the real producers of the guns after 1945, and that they had always known this little fact, which they failed to tell us.

Some of you may remember the Walther/Manuhin "War" in the gun magazines in the mid-80's.
Something changed in the agreement between the companies, and Manurhin began to import a PPK/s under their name.

Walther put out magazine ads that claimed that THEY were the only true model, and mManurhin put out ads stating that since THEY had been the only maker since WWII, THEY were the "true" version.
After about a year, Walther made a deal, and Manurhin stopped importing guns under their name.

Currently the new Walther/S&W PP series guns are getting mixed reviews.
Early guns apparently had problems, but current factory-fresh guns seem to be reliable and well-liked.
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 12:45:09 PM EDT
I was vaguely aware of the Manurhin/Walther issue, so a German made pistol was a misnomer.
I want a European made pistol, and I think the surplus PP is where it is at.
I have a bit of a thing for older guns.
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 1:52:26 PM EDT
That's not a problem, since there are plenty of European made Walther's available.
Prices have been going up for good ones, but you should have a good selection to choose from.
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 5:23:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By dfariswheel:
That's not a problem, since there are plenty of European made Walther's available.
Prices have been going up for good ones, but you should have a good selection to choose from.



That is good to hear.
I am looking for a shooter, not a museum piece.
So long as it works, and the finish is good, I'll take it.
What availability are there of accessories?
Specifically holsters and magazines (with the fingertip floor plates)
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 5:27:26 PM EDT

Tagged for interest.

Link Posted: 2/8/2006 6:04:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/8/2006 6:05:51 PM EDT by dfariswheel]
Accessories are somewhat limited. Part of the reason is, the Walther is a very refined and is just about perfect as-is.

Many makers sell grips, but in rubber you only have Pachmayr or the Hogue "Glock sock" type rubber band.
Wood is available from many makers, including Hogue.

Magazines are available in blue or stainless, with or without the plastic finger piece.
WARNING: Stick with genuine Walther-marked FACTORY magazines.
Most people who have trouble with a PP series Walther are trying to use after-market non-factory.
Like a lot of small handguns, the Walther seems to work best with factory mags.
Whatever you think you're saving buying after-market mags will be lost in reduced reliability.

There isn't a lot available in replacement sights, although MMC used to make an adjustable model, and I'm sure night sights can be installed.
No real need on replacement sights, since the factory sights are some of the best ever put on a pocket auto.

STAY AWAY from light weight springs. Many Walther problems are caused by people attempting to lighten the admittedly heavy Walther DA trigger pull.
This heavy pull is a result of reduced leverage due to the tiny working area available for the trigger mechanism.

The trigger is heavy, and there's very little that can be done about it.
Replacing the springs almost always results in unreliable ignition.
If the heavy DA trigger pull bothers you, SHOOT THE GUN. You'll develop your trigger finger, and soon you won't notice the pull.
New Walther owners are horrified at the DA trigger pull.
Experienced Walther owners no longer notice it at all.

There isn't much available in after-market parts, since the Walther is pretty highly refined as is.

There are plenty of holsters available in just about any type you want.

On ammo, EXPERIMENT.
You can't just buy a brand/type of ammo and demand the gun work with it.
Like many smaller guns, the Walther can be picky about the ammo, and you may have to experiment with a variety until you find a brand/type your specific gun "likes".
What MY gun likes is of no benefit to you, since yours will probably like something else.

On the original Walther's, some people have problems with the lower inner edges of the slide actually cutting the web of your hand.
The new Walther/S&W has an extended tang on the frame that eliminates this.
On most stainless guns, including the S&W the edges of the frame can be sharp also.
On stainless guns, you can bevel the sharp edges for more comfort.
On blued guns you can just break the sharp inner edges of the slide at the rear.

Many Walther PP series guns seem to like to be run "wet". That is, many work better when a little more lube is used than normal.
I've always had good luck with using a good grease on the slide rails and barrel.



Link Posted: 2/8/2006 11:43:40 PM EDT
I knew that the Walther, Ulm guns were actually made in France and the magazines in Italy but I thought that they were finished and assembled at the Ulm plant. A foreign product cannot be imported and marked "made in Germany"until it meets the criteria.

Germany used to import lots of Chinese nails and had them re-packed in an institution for mentally challenged people and the boxes were marked and resold as made in Germany. Of course this superior German quality demanded a higher price!

That aside, I have a very early .22 Walther PP Zella Mehlis with a 90 degree safety and the quality of my PP Manurhin is not worse. The German police armourers kept those guns in good shape and the guns were barely shot.
Link Posted: 2/9/2006 3:22:56 PM EDT
I wanted a PPK/S bad - that is, until I bought one. It was one of the new S&W versions. Didn't feed ball ammunition and ate the hell out of my hand, just as promised. Kept it a week and took it back to where I bought it. Traded in on a SIG 232 and couldn't be happier.

I learned a lesson - maybe you can get off cheaper than I did.

Link Posted: 2/9/2006 4:05:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Tirador223:
I wanted a PPK/S bad - that is, until I bought one. It was one of the new S&W versions. Didn't feed ball ammunition and ate the hell out of my hand, just as promised. Kept it a week and took it back to where I bought it. Traded in on a SIG 232 and couldn't be happier.

I learned a lesson - maybe you can get off cheaper than I did.




My uncle has a PPK or PPK/S, I don't recall the differences between the two.
Imported by Interarms.
Personally, I love it.
Trigger is stiff, but it only bothers me after 100 rounds or so.
I never get the Walther bite, that some get.
Walthers, like a lot of pocket autos, seem to be either "sworn at or sworn by"
Link Posted: 2/18/2006 1:09:12 PM EDT
My wife has a Wallther that she bought in Germany several (about 12) years ago. It's marked

Carl Walther Waffenfabrik Ulm/Do
Modell PP Cal. 9mm kurz


According to a book I have on Walthers, this is a PP model, not a PPK. It has the individual black plastic grips with the steel backstrap, not the plastic wrap-around. I've been told that, because it says "9mm kurz" that it is, in fact, a PP/K but, like I said, according to the book, this is larger than the PPK and looks identical to the PP pictured.

She's never fired the gun in the entire time she's had it and she currently has .380 ammo loaded in the magazine.

I'm wondering: Is this, in fact, a PP/K and, also, is 9mm kurz the same thing as .380 ammo?
Link Posted: 2/18/2006 1:48:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Nivuahc:
... is 9mm kurz the same thing as .380 ammo?



Yes.

Link Posted: 2/18/2006 2:43:34 PM EDT
PP in .32 is a great gun and readily available.
the guns made in France between '55 -'65 were just as good of quality since Walther made them.
I just found an excellent PPK/S in .380 at a pawn shop but it is only the second one in that condition that I found in 25 years.
If you buy from a dealer make sure they email you exactly what you are getting and get a picture first because sometimes their idea of 98% is junk.
At gun shows guys will have them and often then sell Interarms import guns as collectibles so the price is higher...imported marked guns are not collectible and should sell for gun value and not collectible prices.
hope you find one soon; they are enjoyable to shoot
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