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Posted: 4/17/2015 9:12:30 PM EDT
Recently I had an interesting experience at the hospital.  My mother needed to go to the ER, so my father and I brought her in.  In the lobby I saw a metal detector, a security guard, and a sign saying no weapons, guns, knives, etc. are allowed beyond that point.

Just off the lobby is a triage room, and off that room is a door that leads into the emergency department.  They took my mother in there, and I had a seat in the lobby because my Dad was with her and I didn’t figure I needed to be involved when the nurses started asking all the personal questions.  After a few minutes they moved her on into the emergency dept., and my Dad came out into the waiting room to get me.

So there we were, my Dad anxious for me to hurry and catch up with my mother, the security guard (a very kind and helpful man, for the record) wanting help get me in there with her, and me trying to decide just how I was going to handle the situation.  

My father said, motioning toward the metal detector, “You probably have to go through here...”  

The guard quickly said, “No,” then he looked at me and said, “You’re not carrying any weapons, are you?”  

I said “No,” he waived me past it and through another door into the emergency dept., and that was that.

The hospital has a metal detector, an unarmed guard, and two ways to get in without being checked.  Seems to me that this arrangement only makes things less safe, as the metal detector tends to persuade good guys to disarm, yet anyone intent on doing harm can get in pretty easily.
Link Posted: 4/17/2015 9:17:00 PM EDT
It's only there to keep HONEST people honest, not people like us.
Link Posted: 4/17/2015 9:31:45 PM EDT
So, you lied to the guard?
Link Posted: 4/17/2015 9:49:09 PM EDT
Yep.  Given the urgency of the situation and the fact that my folks both wanted me with them, staying in the waiting room didn't seem like a reasonable option at the time.  Running out to the parking lot to leave my piece in someone else's car didn't seem reasonable either.
Link Posted: 4/17/2015 10:41:12 PM EDT
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Quoted:
It's only there to keep HONEST people honest, not people like us.
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The Federal courthouse in Topeka had metal detectors. They did nothing to prevent shooting and tossing pipe bombs.

The first to be shot (and die) was the armed officer at the metal detector. (August 1993)
Link Posted: 4/18/2015 5:15:14 AM EDT
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So, you lied to the guard?
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I would have too.


Unless  I have to actually go through a metal detector or be pat down, I will not be leaving my protection in the car.

A hospital is considered a high target for shit to go down. I won't jeopardize my safety for stupid hospital rules when I'm not even a patient.
Link Posted: 4/18/2015 10:00:11 AM EDT
Mrs. O is a Paramedic in the ER.
She had guns pulled on her at least twice. The guards are goofs.
Always from Family members of the patient. You take my child first!

Guess which rich and vibrant members of our community
Link Posted: 4/18/2015 10:06:19 AM EDT
My wife works at a hospital.  They have a gun cabinet room in the ER....the few times I have been in the ER (not for me) I have never had to go through the metal detector.  I once checked in at the counter and when I my name was called the employee took me through a back door into the ER.
Link Posted: 4/18/2015 10:59:36 AM EDT
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Quoted:
Mrs. O is a Paramedic in the ER.
She had guns pulled on her at least twice. The guards are goofs.
Always from Family members of the patient. You take my child first!

Guess which rich and vibrant members of our community
View Quote



Yeah , and I'd say a good majority are unarmed. I'd be damned if I jump in front of a idiot with a gun while unarmed.  Guard or not.

Maybe she should consider taking a firearm to work if she's that worried or dependent  on unarmed guards?

Link Posted: 4/18/2015 2:47:02 PM EDT
Why are there metal detectors in hospitals???
Link Posted: 4/18/2015 9:06:01 PM EDT
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Quoted:



Yeah , and I'd say a good majority are unarmed. I'd be damned if I jump in front of a idiot with a gun while unarmed.  Guard or not.

Maybe she should consider taking a firearm to work if she's that worried or dependent  on unarmed guards?

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Quoted:
Quoted:
Mrs. O is a Paramedic in the ER.
She had guns pulled on her at least twice. The guards are goofs.
Always from Family members of the patient. You take my child first!

Guess which rich and vibrant members of our community



Yeah , and I'd say a good majority are unarmed. I'd be damned if I jump in front of a idiot with a gun while unarmed.  Guard or not.

Maybe she should consider taking a firearm to work if she's that worried or dependent  on unarmed guards?




There was a recent thread about some guards who were in trouble with some courts because they did not fight off armed attackers while they themselves were unarmed.

So unarmed guards have a duty to protect you, but armed police officers do not.

Typical.
Link Posted: 4/18/2015 11:12:02 PM EDT
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Why are there metal detectors in hospitals???
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They don't want someone walking out with a  prosthesis or
a hip or knee joint with out paying!!!
You guys did think it was there to pro-vent crime, Did you?


PITA45
Link Posted: 4/20/2015 11:56:28 AM EDT
Just wait until you are wheeled in on a gurney but have a CCW still on your belt.  

Link Posted: 4/20/2015 9:33:48 PM EDT
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Quoted:
Just wait until you are wheeled in on a gurney but have a CCW still on your belt.  

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Thank goodness I don't live around there.  In my home town it wouldn't be a big deal.  (In fact I've carried to the local ER many times when I've brought other people in the ambulance, and never thought twice about it.)
Link Posted: 4/20/2015 10:35:33 PM EDT
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Why are there metal detectors in hospitals???
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To make people feel safe.

You know, like gun free zones.

Link Posted: 4/22/2015 1:40:50 PM EDT
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I would have too.


Unless  I have to actually go through a metal detector or be pat down, I will not be leaving my protection in the car.

A hospital is considered a high target for shit to go down. I won't jeopardize my safety for stupid hospital rules when I'm not even a patient.
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Quoted:
So, you lied to the guard?



I would have too.


Unless  I have to actually go through a metal detector or be pat down, I will not be leaving my protection in the car.

A hospital is considered a high target for shit to go down. I won't jeopardize my safety for stupid hospital rules when I'm not even a patient.

+1
Link Posted: 4/22/2015 1:42:12 PM EDT
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Why are there metal detectors in hospitals???
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The stupid.  They are everywhere.

( ETA: stupid for even wanting to put metal detectors up )
Link Posted: 4/22/2015 2:19:13 PM EDT
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Quoted:


To make people feel safe.

You know, like gun free zones.

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Quoted:
Quoted:
Why are there metal detectors in hospitals???


To make people feel safe.

You know, like gun free zones.



Pretty much this and the keep honest people honest comment.

However, in the hospital I worked at there were three "hot spots" for drama. The ED, the Peds floor and the ICU floor. Hospitals are pretty emotional places, alot of people can't deal with things well and make threats of violence against staff and family members. The detectors "make people feel safe". How effective is it when there are 5 other ways into the hospital bypassing the detector? Again, at the hospital I worked at this was being addressed as well.

It is a effective visual deterrent. I say visual because if the operator is a slack ass, minimal effort employee and lets people through without searching then it devalues the point of being there. But installing them and paying a guy $12 to operate it is probably cheaper than the insurance claim/lawsuit for someone shooting a staff member or family member. One thing I learned while I worked there, it's a business just like everything else.
Link Posted: 4/22/2015 2:29:13 PM EDT
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Quoted:


Pretty much this and the keep honest people honest comment.

However, in the hospital I worked at there were three "hot spots" for drama. The ED, the Peds floor and the ICU floor. Hospitals are pretty emotional places, alot of people can't deal with things well and make threats of violence against staff and family members. The detectors "make people feel safe". How effective is it when there are 5 other ways into the hospital bypassing the detector? Again, at the hospital I worked at this was being addressed as well.

It is a effective visual deterrent. I say visual because if the operator is a slack ass, minimal effort employee and lets people through without searching then it devalues the point of being there. But installing them and paying a guy $12 to operate it is probably cheaper than the insurance claim/lawsuit for someone shooting a staff member or family member. One thing I learned while I worked there, it's a business just like everything else.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Why are there metal detectors in hospitals???


To make people feel safe.

You know, like gun free zones.



Pretty much this and the keep honest people honest comment.

However, in the hospital I worked at there were three "hot spots" for drama. The ED, the Peds floor and the ICU floor. Hospitals are pretty emotional places, alot of people can't deal with things well and make threats of violence against staff and family members. The detectors "make people feel safe". How effective is it when there are 5 other ways into the hospital bypassing the detector? Again, at the hospital I worked at this was being addressed as well.

It is a effective visual deterrent. I say visual because if the operator is a slack ass, minimal effort employee and lets people through without searching then it devalues the point of being there. But installing them and paying a guy $12 to operate it is probably cheaper than the insurance claim/lawsuit for someone shooting a staff member or family member. One thing I learned while I worked there, it's a business just like everything else.


Exactly on the part in bold.
Our local hospitals have metal detectors at the ER entrance.
The other 5-10 entrances that allow you into the facility - nothing.
Link Posted: 4/30/2015 9:58:36 AM EDT
For some reason Texas banned hospitals and clinics for concealed carry with large 30.06 signs. Not sure what the issue is with having CHL members carry inside of a hospital or clinic, except for certain medical equipment with huge magnets.

Personally I'm willing to wait on conceal carry on college campuses if they would allow conceal carry in clinics and hospitals, but I do have a personal bias since my fiance works in a lab.

At her clinic, the only security is a local security firm that mainly hires older guys about to retire. The ones I've seen walk the parking lot during the day and leave when the clinic officially closes, not when all the employees leave. Her and her coworkers working late for shutdown purposes tend to do "battle-buddy" system when going to their cars. The security guards look out-of-shape, carry small pistols, no spare magazines and no armour. It wouldn't take a Russian FSB team to breach the clinic, just amateur hour work.

When I visit her for lunch, I leave my carry piece in my truck and double check I have my knives.

Overall, Texas's CHL program leaves some needed areas vulnerable and open. Some areas are ironic, such as Texas Motor Speedway hosting NASCAR NRA 500 and preventing conceal carry of ticket holders.

My thought is, if a place is going to prevent conceal carry, then only one entrance can be used with heavy security present. Armoured guards with rifles x-raying everyone, including employees. If a place doesn't want to do that (due to expense), then allow both employees and public to carry.
Link Posted: 4/30/2015 1:16:42 PM EDT
One of our hospitals took down the no firearms sign.
All the schools took them down.
Link Posted: 4/30/2015 9:56:26 PM EDT
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My thought is, if a place is going to prevent conceal carry, then only one entrance can be used with heavy security present. Armoured guards with rifles x-raying everyone, including employees. If a place doesn't want to do that (due to expense), then allow both employees and public to carry.
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This is the only way that makes any sense, frankly.
Link Posted: 5/1/2015 1:44:36 AM EDT
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At her clinic, the only security is a local security firm that mainly hires older guys about to retire. The ones I've seen walk the parking lot during the day and leave when the clinic officially closes, not when all the employees leave. Her and her coworkers working late for shutdown purposes tend to do "battle-buddy" system when going to their cars. The security guards look out-of-shape, carry small pistols, no spare magazines and no armour. It wouldn't take a Russian FSB team to breach the clinic, just amateur hour work.
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And that is because contract companies pay $9/hr. and no medical benefits.

You, as a Security contract company aren't going to get tier 1 operators for $9/hr.

The only way to make money as a Officer/Guard is to work directly for the client. Even then you won't make a boat load but you will generally make more per hour and get some benefits. Plus the job security of not having to hope the contract gets renewed.
Link Posted: 5/1/2015 9:45:21 AM EDT
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Quoted:
And that is because contract companies pay $9/hr. and no medical benefits.

You, as a Security contract company aren't going to get tier 1 operators for $9/hr.

The only way to make money as a Officer/Guard is to work directly for the client. Even then you won't make a boat load but you will generally make more per hour and get some benefits. Plus the job security of not having to hope the contract gets renewed.
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Very good point. I know the security company is the only one in town, been around for decades. No competition.

As a disclaimer, I did work for them right after I got out of Basic/AIT for the Army National Guard. I was the youngest employee at 22. I worked for about two weeks. Pay was decent for the easy work, but I didn't like the idea of being unarmed and being alone. Got used to the battle-buddy system with the Army. I realize the weapon part was on me due to security companies waiting six months before arming employees who have completed a weapons class.

What I find amusing is that along with security is that janitorial work at hospitals is low wage. However both are essential for safe hospitals. The pay for doctors is high, but who comes in to clean a room between patients? A low wage employee. They'll clean to the best of their ability, but as quickly as possible to finish in the contract time period. Then hospitals wonder how superbugs spread.

Like the old adage, you  get what you pay for.
Link Posted: 5/3/2015 3:44:08 AM EDT
As a Medic (and used to work in NYC for many years) on occasion I have had patients with a CCW.
We had policies/protocols in place to deal with it.
Most hospitals do not allow firearms on their premises.

The hospital I currently work at does not allow it,

However it brings to mind the Pennsylvania doctor who had to shoot the threat that was ready to shoot up the hospital.
He was going to be fired however a massive write in campaign and petition allowed him to keep his job and he was administrative disciplined.

Link Posted: 5/4/2015 10:34:36 AM EDT
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Quoted:
As a Medic (and used to work in NYC for many years) on occasion I have had patients with a CCW.
We had policies/protocols in place to deal with it.
View Quote


How did you and your fellow medics deal with patients with CCW?

I presume they were typically car accidents? That's about all I can figure would send me to a hospital while I'm carrying. If I'm going in for an appointment, I'd leave it in my car.
Link Posted: 5/7/2015 6:31:06 PM EDT
The metal detectors and unarmed guards didn't do jack to prevent an idiot from returning to a Birmingham, AL, hospital with a gun in order to shoot the nurse that kicked him out due to his erratic behavior and threats.

He came back and got in a shoot out at the elevator to the cardiovascular unit and ultimately his lights were put out for good.
Link Posted: 5/7/2015 7:06:32 PM EDT
You know that, I know that...we on this forum know that. But Hospital Admin? Head in rainbows and unicorn land...
Link Posted: 5/9/2015 6:24:59 PM EDT
Quoted:
Why are there metal detectors in hospitals???
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I get into any many fights and make as many arrests in the nicest hospital in my city as in any bar/club in the city.

Every single belligerent intoxicated or high person who gets into an altercation and gets hurt goes to an ER. Maybe 3/4 of them settle down. Occasionally some of them are so bad up they continue to cut up. Or their friends/family show up and cut up.  A thug on the street gets smoked  and his family that never gave a crap about him before will all show up and all be cutting up. When I say his family I mean 50-100 people will show up and be hostile/demanding towards hospital staff, a lot of them are intoxicated, etc.

A lot of ER nurses/doctors get battered by aggressive patients and we have to arrest them/kick them out the hospital.



In general hospital guards are ineffective because they are unarmed and aren't really allowed to beat a combative persons azz due to hospital policy. Most should probably have police stationed at ER doors on the weekends.
Link Posted: 5/9/2015 9:41:30 PM EDT
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I get into any many fights and make as many arrests in the nicest hospital in my city as in any bar/club in the city.

Every single belligerent intoxicated or high person who gets into an altercation and gets hurt goes to an ER. Maybe 3/4 of them settle down. Occasionally some of them are so bad up they continue to cut up. Or their friends/family show up and cut up.  A thug on the street gets smoked  and his family that never gave a crap about him before will all show up and all be cutting up. When I say his family I mean 50-100 people will show up and be hostile/demanding towards hospital staff, a lot of them are intoxicated, etc.

A lot of ER nurses/doctors get battered by aggressive patients and we have to arrest them/kick them out the hospital.



In general hospital guards are ineffective because they are unarmed and aren't really allowed to beat a combative persons azz due to hospital policy. Most should probably have police stationed at ER doors on the weekends.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Why are there metal detectors in hospitals???


I get into any many fights and make as many arrests in the nicest hospital in my city as in any bar/club in the city.

Every single belligerent intoxicated or high person who gets into an altercation and gets hurt goes to an ER. Maybe 3/4 of them settle down. Occasionally some of them are so bad up they continue to cut up. Or their friends/family show up and cut up.  A thug on the street gets smoked  and his family that never gave a crap about him before will all show up and all be cutting up. When I say his family I mean 50-100 people will show up and be hostile/demanding towards hospital staff, a lot of them are intoxicated, etc.

A lot of ER nurses/doctors get battered by aggressive patients and we have to arrest them/kick them out the hospital.



In general hospital guards are ineffective because they are unarmed and aren't really allowed to beat a combative persons azz due to hospital policy. Most should probably have police stationed at ER doors on the weekends.



Spot on!

Seems that the trend is shifting to hospitals having their own Police vs having unarmed Security Officers.

At the hospital I worked at it was a battle just to get tasers. Supervisors ended up getting them but we had very strict usage restrictions. I don't think they will be armed unless either 1. Something happens or 2. Administration changes.
Link Posted: 5/14/2015 10:00:58 PM EDT
Hope momma's doing well...
Link Posted: 5/15/2015 7:05:59 AM EDT
(Looks at OPs state of residency)

Ok not surprised, none of my hospitals have that shit.
Link Posted: 5/15/2015 8:29:12 PM EDT
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Hope momma's doing well...
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Pretty much, thank you.  They never did quite figure out what the problem was, but they did get everything stabilized so she could go home the next day.  Getting old stinks!
Link Posted: 5/15/2015 9:53:18 PM EDT
They have metal detectors and full-time Deputies at the ER, and only the ER entrance, here in Statesville; unless you come in on a gurney,
you're not getting past them.

Anywhere else in the hospital, all they have are signs.
Link Posted: 5/16/2015 2:16:24 PM EDT
I had my edc gear on me during both hospital births. Only person to notice was the anesthesiologist that was giving my wife an epidural. Found out he was a combat medic.

I'm pretty sure all the nurses would've had heartattacks if they knew I had an evil firearm in the same room with a newborn. My wife thinks I'm crazy at times...
Link Posted: 6/13/2015 10:37:05 PM EDT
My old hospital in Detroit was great.  Armed securit 24/7 at all public entrances, most with metal detectors.  Er had guards too, including ambulance entrance.  Security came to ALL traumas.  Would walk staff to their cars, etc.  I dont know if they were contract or hospital staff, but they were easily the best hospital securit I experienced.  Actually seemed motivated and very quick to respond.

Usually "security" at other hospitals and clinics I worked at was whichever male staff was on duty.  Typically that was me, especially at nights.  Im pretty bad ass at 5'7" and 165 lbs.
Link Posted: 6/14/2015 7:37:44 AM EDT
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My old hospital in Detroit was great.  Armed securit 24/7 at all public entrances, most with metal detectors.  Er had guards too, including ambulance entrance.  Security came to ALL traumas.  Would walk staff to their cars, etc.  I dont know if they were contract or hospital staff, but they were easily the best hospital securit I experienced.  Actually seemed motivated and very quick to respond.

Usually "security" at other hospitals and clinics I worked at was whichever male staff was on duty.  Typically that was me, especially at nights.  Im pretty bad ass at 5'7" and 165 lbs.
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I'd still want my own gun, but at least your Detroit hospital takes a more comprehensive approach.  "No weapons - and we have the means to call you on it."  That makes a whole lot more sense than "No weapons - sort of, pretty please."
Link Posted: 6/22/2015 8:08:13 PM EDT
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Very good point. I know the security company is the only one in town, been around for decades. No competition.

As a disclaimer, I did work for them right after I got out of Basic/AIT for the Army National Guard. I was the youngest employee at 22. I worked for about two weeks. Pay was decent for the easy work, but I didn't like the idea of being unarmed and being alone. Got used to the battle-buddy system with the Army. I realize the weapon part was on me due to security companies waiting six months before arming employees who have completed a weapons class.

What I find amusing is that along with security is that janitorial work at hospitals is low wage. However both are essential for safe hospitals. The pay for doctors is high, but who comes in to clean a room between patients? A low wage employee. They'll clean to the best of their ability, but as quickly as possible to finish in the contract time period. Then hospitals wonder how superbugs spread.
Like the old adage, you  get what you pay for.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
And that is because contract companies pay $9/hr. and no medical benefits.

You, as a Security contract company aren't going to get tier 1 operators for $9/hr.

The only way to make money as a Officer/Guard is to work directly for the client. Even then you won't make a boat load but you will generally make more per hour and get some benefits. Plus the job security of not having to hope the contract gets renewed.


Very good point. I know the security company is the only one in town, been around for decades. No competition.

As a disclaimer, I did work for them right after I got out of Basic/AIT for the Army National Guard. I was the youngest employee at 22. I worked for about two weeks. Pay was decent for the easy work, but I didn't like the idea of being unarmed and being alone. Got used to the battle-buddy system with the Army. I realize the weapon part was on me due to security companies waiting six months before arming employees who have completed a weapons class.

What I find amusing is that along with security is that janitorial work at hospitals is low wage. However both are essential for safe hospitals. The pay for doctors is high, but who comes in to clean a room between patients? A low wage employee. They'll clean to the best of their ability, but as quickly as possible to finish in the contract time period. Then hospitals wonder how superbugs spread.
Like the old adage, you  get what you pay for.




Interesting observation. I never thought about that!

Saint Peter
Link Posted: 6/30/2015 7:25:57 AM EDT
I've worked in the medical field for around 8 years now, 4 of those being exclusively in the ER.  Like mentioned, the guards at the last hospital I worked at were unarmed and technically not allowed to lay hands on anyone.  The most that they had was pepper spray on them that they could use.  I've been in a few hairy situations where I felt like things could've escalated badly.  Fortunately for us, they did not.  One night, we even had a guy park in the ambulance bay with a gun.  The hospital went on lockdown and eventually police took him into custody after something like a 16 hour standoff.  I'm unsure of the law elsewhere in the US, but I know in SC if you are a CCW holder and enter a hospital and get caught, it is a felony offense.  However, if you do not have your CCW and enter the hospital with a firearm and are caught with it, it is only a misdemeanor offense.
Link Posted: 7/1/2015 7:58:32 PM EDT
Here in Texas, as I'm sure is the case for a lot of other states, many of the hospitals are part of/affiliated with medical education programs ( be it a medical school, residency program, fellowship training program, nursing/PA school, etc.) and may therefore also be classified as educational institutions.  How exactly this may impact individual state laws over CCW/CHL will vary, but it may be a reason why certain facilities are more strict than others - esp given that hospital systems are overloaded with lawyers already.
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