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1/22/2020 12:12:56 PM
Posted: 10/9/2007 11:33:49 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/9/2007 11:34:02 AM EST by Hemi-Cuda]
I can't carry the Glock any more.

Let me start by saying the Glock is an outstanding pistol, extremely reliable, very comfortable and smooth recoiling. I have no need what so ever to bash on a Glock again, and I intend to keep mine.

I'm at about 600 rounds now through my Glock 19 and about 450 through my Springfield Loaded 1911. I've had 4 malfunctions in the Springfield from a Wilson Combat magazine. Otherwise it has been extremely reliable but what gets to me the most.

Is no matter how many times I dry fire the Glock, no matter how many times I shoot it to get used to the trigger, my groups still have bad spread.

Now, it is accurate enough for me to hit a man sized target at 50 yards, consistently but that just doesn't cut it for me.

I shoot my Loaded very rarely, but every time I take it out I hit 2-3" groups easily at 25yds.

I've decided to invest in a Milt Sparks Summer Special II, and carry my 1911 over my G19 from now on.

I still intend to carry a G19 when I'm dressed far too lightly.
Link Posted: 10/9/2007 2:38:21 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/9/2007 2:38:56 PM EST by Blacksnake]
Accurate enough for a man sized target at 50 yards is more than enough accuracy at defensive ranges in all but open combat conditions (but for that the G34 or G35 would be much better). I'd continue to carry the one that hadn't malf'd on me, but that's just my opinion.
Link Posted: 10/9/2007 2:40:56 PM EST
Glock = AK of pistols.

Unlike with rifles, you don't need more tha minute of man accuracy.

Anything beyond 30 yards = rifle range.
Link Posted: 10/9/2007 2:51:34 PM EST
Reliability is my number 1 priority for a defensive handgun. If it don't go bang when you pull the trigger then you may as well be carrying a rock. Glock G-19 for me !!!
Link Posted: 10/9/2007 3:00:05 PM EST
I can't get used to the Glock either. With my Sig 226 I can shoot 7" balloons at 50 yards with ease. Clay pigeons are tougher, but I'm getting better. I managed to hit a bowling pin at 100 yards also, but that's really tough. I'd say it was more luck than skill. Double taps are consistently on paper at normal engagement ranges, but I need some work there. I can't hit the broad side of a barn from inside it with a Glock. I also have a nasty tendency to draw it and be staring at the top of the slide due to the grip angle. Personally, I'd carry the pistol that allowed me to draw and fire 2-3 shots accurately, the fastest, reliably. MJD
Link Posted: 10/9/2007 3:00:40 PM EST

Originally Posted By Hemi-Cuda:
I can't carry the Glock any more.

Let me start by saying the Glock is an outstanding pistol, extremely reliable, very comfortable and smooth recoiling. I have no need what so ever to bash on a Glock again, and I intend to keep mine.

I'm at about 600 rounds now through my Glock 19 and about 450 through my Springfield Loaded 1911. I've had 4 malfunctions in the Springfield from a Wilson Combat magazine. Otherwise it has been extremely reliable but what gets to me the most.

Is no matter how many times I dry fire the Glock, no matter how many times I shoot it to get used to the trigger, my groups still have bad spread.

Now, it is accurate enough for me to hit a man sized target at 50 yards, consistently but that just doesn't cut it for me.

I shoot my Loaded very rarely, but every time I take it out I hit 2-3" groups easily at 25yds.

I've decided to invest in a Milt Sparks Summer Special II, and carry my 1911 over my G19 from now on.

I still intend to carry a G19 when I'm dressed far too lightly.


Now I'm a glock guy but I'll be the first to tell you that if you don't like the gun then sell it and get something different. If you want to carry a 1911, something like a lightweight commander or Springfield Champion with the light frame is great to carry.

4 malfs out of 450 is not "extremely reliable" but that can be fixed. Try Chip McCormick 8 rnd Power Mags.

Milt Sparks is the way to go but spend the few extra bucks and get the VM2.

While your at it, pick up a S&W J frame for "when your dresses far too lightly" and you'll be covered in every situation.
Link Posted: 10/9/2007 3:02:51 PM EST
I see nothing wrong with your reasoning. If it don't work for you, or you cannot adapt to it, then find something that does work for you or that you can adapt to. That is why there are bazillions of different handguns out there.

Confidence in your competence with a piece means alot.
Link Posted: 10/9/2007 3:10:53 PM EST
Ever consider a different # trigger and a good trigger job?
Link Posted: 10/9/2007 3:21:38 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/9/2007 3:23:05 PM EST by RolandofGilead]
Clearly you are defective as Glock is perfection (just look at the advertisements if you don't believe me), and anyone who disagrees must be borderline retarded.

<­BR>(Yes that was sarcastic)
Link Posted: 10/9/2007 3:27:56 PM EST
That didn't take long!..........
Link Posted: 10/9/2007 3:47:12 PM EST
Somebody had to say it...
Link Posted: 10/9/2007 3:48:09 PM EST
Good for you, Cuda.
Link Posted: 10/9/2007 3:59:05 PM EST
Who cares, carry what you want.

It's nice that there are soooo many choices in CCW weapons and equipment, that way everyone can decide for themselves what works best.
Link Posted: 10/9/2007 4:02:19 PM EST
Concentrate more on the trigger reset rather than the press when you shoot. This will enhance your follow through as well as prep you for the next shot. The Glocks have a very distinct trigger reset which is really awesome.
Link Posted: 10/9/2007 4:04:11 PM EST
It's my fault. It was my thread about how I couldn't shoot it as good when I rented it.

It's not the only pistol out there that works. I don't care what the Glock guys say.

I've got my Dad's Browning HiPower to evaluate. I can tell you this. Same manual of arms as a 1911. Lighter, and smaller overall. You may want to check it out. I have to get over the heavy trigger hurdle first and then I'm going to start accuracy testing. But from what everyone says, they are built well. No MIM. It's the only double stack 9mm, all steel, exposed hammer, single action pistol that I know of. If it wasn't this, I was looking into the HK USP 9mm or possibly the compact version. At least you can do cocked and locked with that too.

I also am in no way saying a Glock is a POS. They are great pistols. They just aren't for everyone. And yes, the grip angle is an issue for some of us. Even if it is supposedly perfection.
Link Posted: 10/9/2007 4:39:18 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/9/2007 4:39:49 PM EST by stevemc]

Originally Posted By JJREA:
I also am in no way saying a Glock is a POS. They are great pistols. They just aren't for everyone. And yes, the grip angle is an issue for some of us. Even if it is supposedly perfection.


I agree 100%
Link Posted: 10/9/2007 4:47:28 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/9/2007 4:48:38 PM EST by fishngrits]

Originally Posted By Paveway_:
Glock = AK of pistols.


No need to disparage the AK like that. A Glock may go boom every time, but there is little else I like about them. I shoot other handguns way better.
Link Posted: 10/9/2007 4:58:08 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/9/2007 4:58:27 PM EST by MichiganMafia]
Obviously the 1911 has a much nicer trigger than a Glock but since i got used to the Glock trigger i've had no problems.

The only other pistol i've owned that i consider to be as reliable as the Glock is a SIG P229.
Link Posted: 10/9/2007 5:26:44 PM EST
Different guns works for different people.

Try a few Mec-Gar and Metalform magazines for your Springfield - I prefer both of those to Kimbers.
Link Posted: 10/9/2007 5:35:42 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/9/2007 5:38:10 PM EST by 3rdpig]
You need a pistol that's man accurate beyond 50 yards? The 1911' is certainly a good choice, but it's not the only one.

The 1911's big drawback at longer ranges is the large amount of bullet drop you get with the .45 ACP and the amount of guesswork you need to do to hit at longer ranges with it. In years past I've practiced with 1911's and have managed to hit at longer distances, but the guesswork in getting a correct point of aim takes a lot of practice. Of course that was with the old 230 grain FMJ loads, a lighter round would no doubt have somewhat less drop at long range.

A few weeks ago I was shooting at a heavy steel gym locker that some asshole dumped out in the desert. I was mainly shooting it with my AR, but for fun shot at it with a couple of pistols I had with me. It was standard locker, about 18 inches wide and 6" tall. With my stock 2nd gen 10mm Glock 20 shooting both Reeds 175 grain Silvertips and DT's 180 grain controlled expansion hollow points I was hitting the locker every time at 100 yards and was only hitting a few inches low from my normal point of aim.

Accurate enough for you?
Link Posted: 10/9/2007 5:50:27 PM EST
You need more practice. Although I do most of my pistol work at 3-10 yards, I can ring a 10" gong all day long at 50 yards with my G19.
Link Posted: 10/9/2007 5:55:15 PM EST
Not at all folks, I'm not going for a pistol that can shoot 50 yards.

But unless I can hit exactly where I'm pointing, I don't feel comfortable with carrying it.

The Glock is definitely accurate enough, just not for me. No matter how much I practice with it, I just can't transition to that trigger.

God, I wish the M92 was concealable.
Link Posted: 10/9/2007 7:52:23 PM EST
Its funny how these things work.

I wanted so bad to like the 1911 design. I even bought one. But I cant take advantage of its capabilties. I shoot like shit with it. Same with my Sig.

However my Glocks I am awesome with. I love em.
Link Posted: 10/9/2007 9:15:48 PM EST
My very opinionated opinion is:



Fuck the Glock... Grip sucks... Angle is wrong...no improvement in 10+ years

Sell the Springfield and get a 1911 that goes "bang" every time...Les Baer comes to mind. Yes, it's a few hundred extra $$$, but you're worth it

Milt Sparks VM2, spare mag pouch, and a good belt.
Link Posted: 10/10/2007 12:16:12 AM EST

Originally Posted By Flushdraw:
My very opinionated opinion is:



Fuck the Glock... Grip sucks... Angle is wrong...no improvement in 10+ years

Sell the Springfield and get a 1911 that goes "bang" every time...Les Baer comes to mind. Yes, it's a few hundred extra $$$, but you're worth it

Milt Sparks VM2, spare mag pouch, and a good belt.

+1 I have put thousandsa and thousands of rounds through multiple G-17's and I could never get used to them. Buy an XD45 or if you want a 1911 I would buy a Nighthawk
Link Posted: 10/10/2007 2:00:09 AM EST
Many years ago (when Glocks first showed up here in the US) I found the grip angle and size to not fit my hand and I didn't really shoot the pistol very well. I have nothing against the weapon, it's just not for me.
Link Posted: 10/10/2007 2:44:42 AM EST
I don't have a problem shooting accurately with my G21sf. In fact I have no problems hitting a silhouette at 100 yards.

I have no problem with the grip angle.
Link Posted: 10/10/2007 2:50:51 AM EST
Best thread ever.

You'll love that VM2.
Link Posted: 10/10/2007 3:28:07 AM EST
Yeah, I like my G19 too, but I switched to the G30, 45acp.

I can complicate my life by having a big heavy 1911, but I never liked scraping rust.

Seriously.Tho. To each his own. I can not think of a reason to fire a pistol over 30 yard defensively unless you live in the desert. I keep a rifle in the truck for that.
Link Posted: 10/10/2007 3:35:01 AM EST

Originally Posted By justinwb:

Originally Posted By Flushdraw:
My very opinionated opinion is:



Fuck the Glock... Grip sucks... Angle is wrong...no improvement in 10+ years

Sell the Springfield and get a 1911 that goes "bang" every time...Les Baer comes to mind. Yes, it's a few hundred extra $$$, but you're worth it

Milt Sparks VM2, spare mag pouch, and a good belt.

+1 I have put thousandsa and thousands of rounds through multiple G-17's and I could never get used to them. Buy an XD45 or if you want a 1911 I would buy a Nighthawk


I'm with you, but 2k for a 1911 will come soon.
Link Posted: 10/10/2007 3:41:55 AM EST
Carry whatever you want, but if you want to give yourself/Glock another chance, read on.

It might help you to know that the triggers on US Glocks are considered target triggers by US importation laws. You can buy and legally install the standard Glock trigger yourself and that may help your mind get past the funky feel of the trigger.

I don't like the feel of US triggers, but I think they serve a good purpose for better traction.

Aside from that, there are a number of techniques to try and a few dry fire options. (ie coin/sight)
When at the range, go slow and smooth with the trigger. After the shot, get your sights back on target and then release the trigger far enough for it to reset. Repeat, and go slow.


FWIW, I used to be better at hitting my target when it was further down range than I was at close range... I really thought that was weird, and got to thinking about it and realized exactly why: Because at close range I would subconsciously assume that it would be easy to hit my target without trying too hard, which would result in a miss, but at distance I really had to concentrate on what I was doing.


Originally Posted By Hemi-Cuda:
But unless I can hit exactly where I'm pointing, I don't feel comfortable with carrying it.


I know exactly what you mean.

Although many people will settle for being able to hit inside a 12" circle, I cannot do that... I need to have the utmost confidence in my weapon and my ability to effectively utilize it under a range of conditions.

You just never know when you might be in a position where you need to take a shot with little leeway in the POI. If I cannot hit exactly where I aim, I won't be comfortable carrying it and will find myself very paranoid/anxious... Fearing that Murphy might try and take advantage of the situation.
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 6:13:46 AM EST
embrace diversity you have the freedom to choose one of the many, fantastic, options we as americans have for concealed carry pieces. Its a beautiful thing.
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 10:20:31 AM EST
Forget the Glock go with a P229.
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 10:24:46 AM EST
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